OK, who still stands by their Pete Rose-Hall opinions?

[T Roosevelt]

I was looking for something, and yes I seem to have a lot of time on my hands today...

From June 2002:
Should Pete Rose go into the Hall of Fame?

[papau]

1. A verterans committee vote in 2008 - and not a day sooner

If if he loses the vote, thats OK too.

[GOPisEvil]

2. Wow...I was a mere lad back then...

My opinion of him personally hasn't changed. I just don't think that highly of him as a human being.

I still maintain that he belongs in the Hall of Fame for his exploits as a player, but I'd never reinstate him to participate in baseball in any capacity, except as fan.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Mere Lad?!?!?!?!?

That, sir, is a bold-faced lie! You're an old codger now, and you were an old codger then. So there! Guess i told you!

The Professor

[GOPisEvil]

5. A codger? Guilty...but I proclaim myself a young codger.

35 is young, dammit. Who cares what the kids say?

[ProfessorGAC]

11. 35?!?!? You're 2/3rds As Old As Me. That's OLD!

I have decreed. Sorry, there is no discussion allowed. You're an old codger. End of story.
The Professor

[GOPisEvil]

12. Yeah, but if I try to "shoot my age", it has to be for 9 holes.

Unless I'm playing putt-putt, of course.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. In Nine Holes, If I Don't Shoot My Age. . .

. . .i look for a straight razor.
The Professor

[GOPisEvil]

24. I've never done it.

My best score for 9 holes: 40.

[papau]

27. I see hope a few more years in the future!

:-)

[Richardo]

28. As I play today, I'm going to have to live to be 102...

So I'll let you all know in 2058. :D

[ProfessorGAC]

3. I Said It Then, And I Say It Now

No! No Hall of Fame. Not Ever!
The Professor

[MrBenchley]

14. Agreed...

Anybody remember the 1983 World Series...when Rose was suddenly sat down for game three with no explanation? Always wondered what that was about.

He managed a team that was favored to win the division, and came in second every time. The year after he left, Lou Pinella took more or less the same club to the World Championship.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. I do

[ProdigalJunkMail]

7. blushing...

and so do I. So are we hitched now or what? Of course, the wife may have a problem with this...

TheProdigal

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. You'd probably have a bigger problem on your hands than the wife would!

:evilgrin:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. were you 'fer' or 'agin'

Petey getting into the Hall?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. He belongs in the Hall of Fame for his talent, skill and ability

If we were canonizing a saint, I might feel differently.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

15. and for his hustle...

but I just can't get past the whole betting thing. You CAN destroy your deeds of the past...and in my book, by betting on baseball he invalidated those deeds by a direct attack on the integrity of the game...of course, there are others that have done little to promote the perfection of the game of baseball that somehow made it. Too bad there is such a grey area here!

Much love from Frozen, NC
TheProdigal <---seeking warmth

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. Is there evidence he threw a game?

There should be no GREY area..if we are acknowledging PLAYING baseball, the let's do that...I say NIX his chances for the GAMBLING hall of fame..besides..he couldn't lick Bill Bennet's record anyway.

The rationale behind my issue is this:

Sports players whould only be held accountable for the playing of sports. By denying him his actual accomlishments, we are reinforcing that these people should be treated as gods beyond their actual skill and ability. We, therefore, set society up for a let down based on their humanity.

Reagan has airports named after him in spite of his war crimes. Why can't Pete have a friggin plaque at Cooperstown?

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Because I Don't Like Him

That's why. No other objective criteria are necessary. I don't like Rose, so he's out. I have spoken. Sorry, but it's just that simple.
The Professor

BTW: I actually think that his player/mgr. status that allowed him to pencil himself into a lineup on days with a lesser pitcher when he was only hitting .230 is to the ultimate detriment of his team and the game. Given the differential between the lifetime BA of Rose and the guy whose record he broke, i'd say that the whole difference was 162 game seasons instead of 154 games. I'm not big on records based upon longevity rather than superb performance over the entire track.

Last point on stats: Had Cobb played 162 game seasons, Rose would still be over 180 hits behind him.

I also think he was a substandard fielder who was consistently moved from position to position by his own team because it was so easy to find a superior fielder on their own roster.

I am into the multi-tool perspective of greatness and Rose was just a Neanderthal with excellent hand-eye coordination who played the affable ownership of Cincy into a career of faux intensity. I honestly believe that had he been a black ballplayer he would have been dismissed as a grandstanding hotdog.

Just My Opinion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. OK..,most of that strays from the gambling issue anyway :-)

I can live with that.

On the gambling issue, the stats you cited demonstrated he still played to win and wasn't "throwing games"

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. but he gambled while managing

and THAT is a huge issue. Whilst in control of the destiny of a team, he was betting three and four times a week on the game. The Hall is not just for players, but for coaches too!

TheProdigal

[Richardo]

13. My brilliant solution

Pete was my idol as a kid, and his baseball acheivements are extraordinary and unparalleled. He excelled at the game through brute hard work, tenacity and hustle.

But he knowingly broke the rules knowing what the penalty was for that behavior.

Seems idiotic not to acknowledge one of the game's best careers, yet the man is (rightly, IMO) ineligible for induction into the HofF.

So:

Post a plaque on the grounds of Cooperstown, literally OUTSIDE the hall, with his stats and acheivements. No ceremony, no memorabilia.

This acknowledges his accomplishments, with the pointed symbolism that he is NOT in the Hall.

<takes bows>

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. LOL maybe they can put it in a doghouse outside the hall

:D

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. Let Shoeless Joe in and I might change my mind. Leave Joe out

and a big no for Pete. Pete actually committed a big gambling no-no. Joe was a victim of circumstance. Check out his stats for those games.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. I agree on SJ

[saltpoint]

30. I agree.

If Shoeless Joe is kept out, then Pete stays out, too.

[LynneSin]

21. I'm still voting for Pete Rose in HOF

:D

[loudnclear]

25. Changed my mind after i learned that he wrote a lying book.

I think that pushes over the brink. I was for him and had thought all along that even if he did bet on baseball his talent should allow him into the hall of fame since gambling isn't the worst thing a person could do. Then I learned that he had written and collected royalites from a book filled with lies about the incident.

[DrWeird]

29. Put Pete in the Hall.

I think it's great that Pete came out. Not that I care if he admits it, but all of the people that said they'd like to see Pete in the hall if he'd just admit it now have to eat crow.

For crying out loud, there was never a conflict of interest. All this phony moralizing reminds me of Carry Nation, the Hayes code, and all the crap from that era. You'd think gambling was worse than sexual assault or something. Ty Cobb killed a guy for shit's sake.