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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:31 PM
Original message
Need Meth Addict Support
Now, I'm not looking for a support line or anything like that, more just some support from others out there who have been through or are going through the hell that is Crystal Meth addiction.

The past 2 nights in a row I have had horrible dreams about getting high. Vivid, real dreams that foster all of the bad feelings (physical and mental), and make me feel like i've been high, without any of the actual getting high. The dreams themselves aren't bad, except that they are focused around Meth and me getting high, and usually take place in seedy settings with friends I would rather put behind me for these same reasons. But, when I wake up I don't feel like I've slept because I've been high in the dreams all night. What's even worse is that I get all the negative psychological effects of having been high (grumpy, moody, aggravated by everything around me) even though I haven't actually touched the shit.

These dreams happen all the time (once or twice a month for years) and they piss me off. I've done my fair share of drug experimentation and I have never dreamed about any drug except Crystal Meth. I spent the better part of 10 years heavily addicted and have fought the addiction tooth and nail for the past five and these dreams won't go away! I fear they never will.

Is there anyone out there who gets this? I know when I was a kid they said addiction is something you have to deal with your entire life. I had no idea this was what they meant.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes. Perhaps not on the level you describe because it wasn't meth
addiction. Check your PM. You're not alone.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thank you so much
:hug:
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Madrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.
I don't have any personal insight to give you - I'm witness to the horrors of addiction only vicariously. I am currently housing an 18 year old girl getting off meth. She came to stay with me after leaving a 28 day rehab program, and NA meetings really seem to help her as people there can understand what you're speaking of in a way I cannot.

She's talked to me a lot about the kinds of things you mention -- she learned about something in rehab called something like "euphoric recall", and that sounds sort of like what you're talking about, although she says different triggers can set that off, such as watching someone use in a movie, etc.

All I can do is wish you my best, and :hug:

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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. OMG is she right!!
They had an anti-meth article here on the DU a few months back and were advertising it in the left column with a picture of someone smoking meth. It was like having an add for Crystal Meth in front of me so I stopped posting and even reading for weeks until it was gone.

The commercials for that new "Shooting Siezemore" show are like that too. I don't think advertisers realize that showing someone smoking meth in ads is like making ads for smoking meth.

I tried NA a long time ago and it was a complete waste of my time. I have read recently that I am not the only meth addict in the world who felt that way. They are finding that what it physically does to your body is unlike anything else and this causes psychological problems that are unique to only meth.

I hate the stuff. I had never heard of it before the first time I used it and I wish I could go back and kick my own ass rather that let me try it. I wish they could un-invent it.

Tell your visitor that she is not alone and that fighting meth is unlike anything else out there. I wish I could provide hope that it gets easier, but it hasn't gotten so yet for me. Tell her she is welcome to write me if she wants support (PM me and I'll give you my email).

Thanks for the support, today has been the worst day in a long time thanks to those dreams and your kind words have helped tremendously.

:) :hug:
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Madrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Glad I could help somewhat.
Check your PM - I just read this to Jen and she would like your email address.
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TheFriendlyAnarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. Damn, I had no idea that it was really that bad. . .
I mean, I've always told myself I'm not gonna use any severly addictice (or with a high risk of dependancy) drugs, but DAMN. My heart goes out to you my friends. I just had never imagined it could be that BAD :hug: :hug: I hope you find peace man, I really do
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Thanks
I am feeling much better this afternoon thanks to the support of my friends her at the DU :)

Just know that when they say you are always an addict, its no lie. I hate the idea that in my 60s I may wake up every once in a while feeling like I want to smash something because I got high in a dream and get to come down in the morning.

NEVER TOUCH CRYSTAL METH!

(that was for lurkers and readers more than you :))

:hug: thanks for the support :hug:
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good news and bad news.
I've been sober for 28 years now but I was a fall-down, 24/7 drunk before that. Occasionally, I still have a bad dreams; I dream that I've given up and started drinking again, or I dream about nightmare scenarios that happened a long time ago. Now here's the good news. They're alot less powerful than they used to be. (In other words, when I wake up, instead of feeling soul-sick and depressed, I just think "huh" and go on with my day.) And I know this is gonna sound really pessimistic, but something else usually goes wrong and gets my attention, and then the dreams stop.
Such is life. But I really hope you stop having vivid dreams. I imagine you've tried couseling, huh? If not, you might give it a shot.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I've tried many things
And the dreams usually stay away. This string of them back to back is not only unusual for me regarding these specific dreams, its weird for me period (I never dream about the same thing two nights in a row, ever!).

I think it is a little of the opposite of what you describe. Life has gotten kinda stressful the past couple weeks and I think my subconscious is looking for the out and teasing me with what it thinks will help.

The good news is that after years of fighting it I've gotten pretty good at doing so. The dreams make me sick to my stomach for a few hours, grumpy half the day then fade into the past. Even now I am feeling much better than when I originally posted this morning.

Thanks for the support, it is greatly appreciated today!

:hug:
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. I feel for you and my thoughts are with you.
I'm sorry I don't have any advice except to be determined to keep doing what you have been doing.

Some time ago I had to deal with my own 3 year addiction to Vicodin(hydrocodone). From what I've heard and read Meth addiction is the hardest of all.

You need to stay focused on the fact that this drug IS, and ALWAYS is, addictive. I'm sure you know the hell it is when you reach the point where you want the drug not for the high, but to relieve the absolute hell that you find yourself in. Always remember that. You know from experience where this road goes. And it ALWAYS takes you there. To hell on earth. You do not want to go back!

Seek support if it gets bad. PLEASE. It's always available.

Again, my thoughts are with you. Keep this confined to your dreams and the dreams will eventually go away.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thanks
Meth sucks, there is no getting around it. I usually do alright, today the second dream was just the last thing I needed on top of a very stressful couple of weeks. I was less at the point of wanting to go get some (a part of the hell that can act as a deterrent in and of itself) and more just feeling all the negative psychological effects the dreams bring on. I am feeling much better this afternoon.

The support and kind words of my friends on the DU have helped a great deal, so thank you! :)

:hug:
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Not an addict, but maybe some insight
I guess I am addicted to cigarettes, but I'm sure it's nothing as intense as being addicted to a heavy drug. When I try to quit smoking I do have dreams about starting smoking again, though.

It seems to me that being addicted to a drug may have some parallels with mental illness. I have used drugs in the past, though not heavily, and I've also been severely mentally ill. When I was sick I would sometimes experience the sensations of an LSD trip. It was so strong that I thought someone had drugged me on more than one occasion.

After I got psychiatric help my symptoms pretty much disappeared except for some nightmares. The nightmares were so intense and seemingly real that when I would wake up from one I would be stunned and I temporarily could not separate reality from the dream that I had. The good news is that those dreams have faded with time.

Heavy drug addiction, like mental illness, is very traumatic to both your brain and your body. You and I will probably never be totally free of the affects of that trauma. I hope you are going to NA and counseling wouldn't hurt, either, if you are not doing that. I take pills for my head and see the headshrinker on a regular basis and I'm learning to cope with something that will probably be with me for the rest of my life.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I tried NA years ago
And it sucked. It was one of the most judgemental, least effective experiences in my life. I have done way better fighting it on my own than NA could ever have done for me.

Fortunately, I have the best counselor in the world: my wife. She has been there, done that, hated it and, when I needed it, she helped pull me out of the hole i dug for myself when I hit the bottom years ago. She is a great help and always calms the pain I feel when this surfaces.

Thanks for your support, I have really needed the kind words of strangers today. It has made me feel better and better as the day moves on.

:hug:
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GenDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. I have a family member addicted to crack.
He has spoken of having the same kinds of nightmares. He also says that if the thought of smoking enters his thought process he obsesses for days and sometimes weeks and because he is not in recovery (just a prescription drug that takes the edge off) it usually results in a major slip. I don't know what you are experiencing personally, but know what it feels like to love someone that has an addiction. I'll pray that you can fight these demons and prevail.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Crack is the only thing that comes close to Meth
From the one time I tried it many years ago I would say that the feelings created (not the high) are almost identical (which is why, way back then, I decided to never smoke crack it again. I was at least smart enough to not want two major addictions on my back).

I can think about using and be fine, not want it, not go looking for it, nothing. Every once in a while I will get what I call "the bends". Its this horrible, painful feeling like being the hungriest you have ever been, only its not just in the pit of your stomach. It comes from every cell in your body as they are screaming for the drug. Those are the hardest times and, anymore, they only rear up when I am headed to hang out with any of my friends who still use, so I just avoid doing that :)

Meth sucks. I can only hope that there are teenagers out there reading this thread who will take all of this to heart.

Thanks for the support :hug:
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. I can relate to this though I have no answers
I've had dreams of freebasing coke that were so real that when I didn't get the rush in my dream, I woke up completely confused.

I find it very difficult to watch some films - I've never been able to get through Pulp Fiction because of a scene near the beginning involving drug use - it's like a flashback for me and makes me so very uncomfortable.

I've been clean for almost 11 years now. I rarely have the dreams anymore but the discomfort with films etc. is still very real and almost impossible to explain to someone who hasn't been there. My monkey was cocaine and heroin and all I can offer you is a :hug:
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The hug is what helps the best
Even if only an emoticon.

I hate seeing meth use in movies and commercials. The "Shooting Siezemore" one right now is the worst and its all over all of the Viacom stations. I wish they knew what they were doing to those of us out here who have used. I said this earlier in the thread, but I'll say it agian: Its like making commercials for smoking meth. :grr:

Thanks for the support :hug:
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. I feel for you.
I haven't had a using dream in a very long time, I am fortunate, though my drugs of choice were alcohol and pot, with other minor experimentation.

It is always owing to something going on in my life that determines when and why I want to use, I think. I don't rule out chemical or systemic things like nutritional imbalances, and anything that depresses my immune system can make me feel depressed, and because I am such a person to medicate I will react with ideations before I even know that I am messed up or hurting internally. When I first got sober I would want to drink when I got thirsty and when my blood sugar got low, just because I was used to drinking 24/7 and didn't know how to fix those conditions because in my using days I never experienced them, (except dry mouth in the morning) because I was ALWAYS medicated.

I do have another addiction that I struggle with on a daily basis that I have never talked about here, which is self-injury, and that one really lays on me sometimes...ususally when I make reference to 'drugs' on Du that is what I am referring to, that I haven't in the past wanted to really explicitly state. I have dreams about it and thoughts about it when I am in a weakened emotional state. Lately, for the past few months, it has been constant. I only share this because I know what it is like to have something ride your back like this and just wear you out, when you want it to be gone, or not be this way. I am 12 years abstinent from any cutting behavior and I would greatly like to stay this way, because I have visible scarring up and down my left arm and I really do not like going through life this way. There is nothing I can do about what I have already done, but I don't want to make it worse.

Once when I was struggling with other addictions someone said to me to examine what was triggering the behavior and the ideations. It can be as simple as not sharing my emotions; or it can be alot more complex. For me this behavior is just like any other drug, but it's a shortcut, it forces an instant release of painkillers in my system and the fact that I am craving painkillers means I AM MOTHERFUCKING PAIN. Simple as that. Sorry to yell, it's directed at myself, not you. Right now, I just need to let go of things that are causing me pain. The ideations and the cravings and the dreams, if they aren't caused by systemic things (hungry/angry/lonely/tired) can be roadsigns that can help me dig out of something really fucked up. I know what it is like to want desperately not to pick up the drug of choice again, whatever it may be, and what it's like to have that idea in your head constantly, or not even be able to get a good night's sleep for thinking about it. Once I have done the thinking and the talking and the sharing and the getting honest, I just pray, although to whom or what I do not know. I'm glad you talked it out (or typed it out) and I hope that it helps and you are able to stay clean from it one day at a time. I had a relapse 5 years ago on the subtance side after just under ten years clean and it was just a nightmarish experience for me. I honestly don't know if I could come back from another one. There just are no words to describe how hard that was to hang on to every second for days and days on end. NOTHING I am going through now even compares to how incredibly hard it would be if I drank or used today, nothing.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. And I for you
I'll start where you left off:

:hug: :hug: :hug:

I at no point thought you were yelling at me, and I have to re-iterate something you said and point out that it is good that you were able to talk (or type) it out.

PM me for my email address - if you ever need to talk drop me a line. Struggling against that which we both hate and crave, whatever it is and for whatever reason, is the hardest aspect of the human condition and it can only be overcome with the help of those who understand (hence my comming to the DU for support today).

:hug: :hug: :hug:

take care.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. 20+ plus years clean and sober -- intravenous crystal and cocaine use.
i did it for over ten years.

this too will pass.

but it's gonna take work on your part -- you may not like na -- but you need to get your ass to some kinda support group and get that stuff out there.

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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Seriously, I'll pass on NA
I have done a better job staying clean without them. The dreams are a manifestation from my subconscious and they have yet to drive me back to the pipe, so I just do what I need to do to fight off the bad emotions (like DU lounge therapy sessions) and just keep on keepin on.

I'll take the couseling of my wife and the support of my non-using (and previous user) friends any day to the crap that passes for support in NA. Hell, I have had a better experience today with a bunch of "anonymous" users here on the DU than all of the meetings I went to put together.

Thanks, but no thanks.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. NA is owned by the Church of Scientology
And has almost nothing to do with AA.

They're banking on recruiting "clams" when people are at their most vulnerable.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I've never heard that before
and am reluctant to say I believe it.

However, there was a disparity of personality types in the group I was in that would lend an element of "truthiness" to what you are saying. Two of the members were very dominant personalities and I had a real hard time believing they were former addicts (but who am I to judge?).

However, I am still not going to say I believe it :)
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Here's some links, if you dare
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. When it comes to scientology
I always dare. Those people ar kooks whose religion was started as a bet between Robert Heinlein and L. Ron Hubbard.

Unfortunately for L. Ron, Heinlien died before he collect :)

(I don't know 100% for sure this is true, but most of my sci-fi reading friends say they have heard it more than once and, as we all know, if enough people believe something it becomes true, right?)
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. It's true - Heinlein mentions it in one of his non-fiction books
Heinlein was practically the opposite of Scientology too...he was a firm believer in individuality, sexual experimentation and was deeply disturbed by groupthink.

He was an anarchist, I beleive.
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GenDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Narconon and Narcotics Anonymous are
two completely different organizations. NA is based on the 12 steps and traditions of AA and Narconon is the scientology rehab. We've looked into the Narconon thing for my loved one with the crack addiction until we found out it was Scientology. They boast a 97% cure rate...but I think it is brainwashing.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. I knew there was some kind of disconnect
That makes way more sense with what Taverner was talking about.

And, this probably doesn't need to be said, but no thanks to Narconon also. I have a real religion.

:)
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GenDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I think they are trying to be deceptive, purposely
with the name narcanon...it's close to al-anon and hence the confusion with the 12 step programs.

My husband is a recovering alcoholic and AA and al-anon was a big part of both our recoveries -- neither one of us go anymore, but I'm thinking I should go back to al-anon. It is my son with the crack addiction. Genetic predisposition, I suppose. :shrug: With all that recovery you would think that me and my old man would be able to detach from my son's disease. Nope, we're emotionally wrapped up in every bit of it. Can't stop myself from feeling like I must have done something terribly wrong, and of course I want to fix it. I can say I didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it...but it doesn't keep me from thinking it.

I'm going to be thinking about you...because when you posted this all I could do was think about my son and his battle.
:hug:
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
56. I know people who've been through the Narconon program.
It's fairly dangerous, IMO because of the vitamin shots and long times spent in a sauna. Some famous people have said they got clean that way.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. That's Narcanon, NOT NA!
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 08:34 PM by Southpawkicker
completely different

NA is a 12 step fellowship based on the 12 steps first used by AA.

There is no relationship between NA and Narcanon. Narcanon is a Scientology deal.

Get your facts straight please

:shrug:
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Understood - but you can see how I made the error - no?
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Well I Can See It Taverner
but I'm very sensitive about things like that.

I guess the Scientologists probably took advantage of the name similarity to capitalize on that fact.

There is actually a fairly large Narcanon facility not far from where I live, Arrowhead Lodge in Oklahoma. They fool people by not presenting themselves as having anything to do with Scientology. I don't know what approach they use, but they are ever present in marketing their programs.

:pals:

I'm glad that you see it!
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I just know how deceptive the CoS is
They're probably one of the most dangerous orgs out there...

You do know they have their own Navy, right?
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. No, I Didn't Know That
battleships and aircraft carriers and all?

WTF?

:wtf:

That is bizarre
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Yep - tho not with aircraft carriers


It's one of the way poorer Scientologists work their way to their different levels.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. In The Navy, You Can Sail the Seven Seas
geez

that's a fucking scary picture really, they look like the navy.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. The intention of the Sea Org was eventually become the Space Org
Batshit Insane group of folks, those Scientologists.

Check out http://www.xenu.net / sometime for a bit of background on them.

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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Yeah, They Are Insane
no doubt

Did you see the Southpark episode with the scientologists that cracked me up.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Loved that one
Equally fun was the one for the Mormons
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I have managed the treasury for an NA group.
All the money that came in and went out of that group came through my hands. I am an honest person, and I never heard a word about the Church of Scientology as related to NA. I never heard it mentioned around NA or from any NA people at all. I didn't get involved in NA except at the local level. NA, AA, CODA, SIA, Al-anon, etc all the twelve step groups that I have attended are indistinguisable from each other, except for the fact that like you said,the personalities can really vary. NA sometimes to me felt very 'street' so to speak, which sometimes just isn't good because 'street' tactics are many times not the best ways to deal with problems in life when you are clean and sober and wanting to stay that way. I do not currently attend twelve step meetings, although I need to. I think AA and NA both have their strengths and weaknesses. I preferred NA for the last while that I went, with the group in which I held the treasury, because I was allowed to use the label 'addict' and anymore with my various coping mechanisms it just makes more sense to me, especially for the self-injury since there is no group for that, as well as some other stuff I don't want to go into.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. It sounds highly suspect
and I'm sure its false.

I am totally on board with what you said about the "street" attitude of those in NA. Beyond the personality disparities, there was a disparity in experience based on the DoC that made almost everyone in the group so different from one another that we were no help to each other (in my eyes). In fact, I was the only "tweaker" in the group.

Alcoholics Anonymous has a kind of unity because the experiences surrounding being an alcoholic may vary, but the drug and its effects are the same for all those in attendance so it brings them together (I think that is almost straight out of the Blue Book). NA was filled with too much "you don't know what I've been through" (on my part and the parts of others in the group) to be effective.

It also didn't help that several of the meetings were held at the house of one of the members. He was a guy I knew very well in high school as my girlfriend in my senior year lived with his family (his sister was my GFs best friend and his sister is still a very dear friend of mine). I know his family almost as well as I know my own and it was humiliating (and contrary to the idea of Narcotics Anonymous) to go into that house for meetings.

all that aside - I don't believe at all that NA is a recruiting ground for Scientology. :tinfoilhat:
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. 'cause there is no connection Idg
none whatsoever
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
54. You're confusing it with Narconon, which is owned by the
church of Scientology. NA is in the same family tree of 12 step programs as AA. It has nothing to do with Scientology.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. i didn't say it had to be na -- and i said this too shall pass.
BUT i did say that it could require the work of some sort of support group.

but i've never had any luck keeping any body else sober but myself.

good luck -- it'll all work out.

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. All I can say is look into the chemistry of addiction
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 04:39 PM by Taverner
IN specifics, related to crystal meth.

It helped me kick my painkiller addiction, just knowing how what I was feeling was the toxins released by opium receptors and that eventually they would adjust.

Reducing addiction to its biological components helped me, but that's no guarantee it will help you.

Good luck!

ON EDIT: There are also steps you can do to suppress dreams. Don't know if you want to go that route but just saying...
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Amazingly
Exactly that has been the most help. It was hard at first as there was so little info about meth in the mid 90s, but the more of a problem it has become, the more information is available. Knowing what it does and why has really helped me analyze the feelings I have and, while it may not always allow me to put them aside 100%, it always makes the struggle easier.

when you say suppress dreams, do you mean entirely or to suppress them when they happen? I like to dream, and this really has only been a problem the past couple days, so I'm not sure I want to suppress my ability to dream entirely. However, I'm curious what you are talking about so please tell me more...
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. There are a number of meds you can take
Both behind and over the counter that can suppress dreams. Not all work for everyone, but I had a friend who was suffering from night terrors and stopping all dreams was the only thing she could do for her sanity.

I can't reccomend anything specifically, but look at erowid.org (excellent site for any kind of med).

You can also alter dreaming through dietary practices. Not eating protein 4 hours before bed, for example, has been known to reduce dreaming. Same with sugar.
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Interesting
We shall see in the next few nights if this is going to be a pattern. I am not usually prone to dream patterns so I am kind of concerned, but am holding off getting really concerned to see how things go the next couple nights.

Hopefully this is an isolated incident and nothing that requires (what I would consider) such extreme measures as staving off dreams entirely.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Try for starts not eating anything but sugarless veggies before bed
Oh, and if you're ever in a malaria ridden country, stay away from Methylquine ;)
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
35. My suggestion
Seek professional help, and do not ask DUers for assistance, as they are not qualified (except maybe in their own minds) to assist you. :hug:
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thefool_wa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Wow, a little over kill
And a little on the rude side to all the really nice people who have shared with me today. Qualified is really a matter of point of view, and I would say everyone who has shared here today is more than qualified to help.

My experiences with "professional help" (groups and therapy) were worthless and, when it comes to these dreams, they are not invasive enough on my life to need anything more than what I got today. Admittedly, the past 2 days they have been worse than normal, but nothing a little quid-pro-quo with those who have "been there" can't help.

I can see what you are saying, but professional help is not what I need or desire. I tried seeing a therapist as a teenager (dealing with dad's alcoholism, before my own drug problems) and I assure you that a little help from friends (here and in my life) who share some common ground goes a lot further than paying someone to tell me things I can figure out for myself for free.

I appreciate the sentiment, and thanks, but no thanks :) :hug:
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. Sound Advice
you don't know who I really am and I could tell anyone anything.

I have been a chemical dependency counselor in the past and did that for close to 8 years. I am also recovering and involved in 12 step programs. But it's like giving medical advice on DU. It shouldn't be taken with anything but caution.

I agree, professional help is far superior to a discussion forum thread. We aren't there to help the person anyway.

Good call!
:hug:
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
40. I have no experience in this realm, but I wanted to stop in and wish you Peace
and the continued Courage and personal Strength it takes to conquer your addictions. :hug:
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
42. I wound up physically dependent on painkillers last year
I had a horrible medical problemat the beginning of September, 2005--infected, inflamed gallbladder. It was too inflamed to operate on, so I had to stay in the hospital on IV antibiotics and IV Dilaudid as well as Percocet in pill form for the whole month of September. When the infection anf inflammation went down enough to operate safely, I had the blasted thing taken out--but the surgery was complicated by LOTS of internal organ "adhesions" caused by the extensive inflammation, so it took a LONG time to recover afterward. The surgery was on September 28th. I went home with a scrip for 30 Dilaudid and 80+ Percocet on the 4th of October. I got *another* scrip for Percocet at the end of October, because I was still having pain from the surgical site and digestive complications that went along with it. By Christmas, I was running out and when I stopped taking them--all hell broke loose. I'd been on massive pain meds for months. The withdrawal was horrific. I remember shaking, sweating profusely, my whole body racked in pain, like I had the worst case of the flu *ever*. My nose got stuffy. I had hot flashes and chills. Muscles spasms out of nowhere. Sleepless nights, shaking hands, crying from the misery of it all.

I thought I was safe because I was taking the medicine for a *reason*. Boy, was I ever wrong. I went through four days of absolute hell, then broke down and went back to the doctor to explain what was happening. He treated me so badly, I'll never forget it. He's the one that GAVE me that stuff--told me my doses were low enough to be "safe". He gave me no sympathy whatsoever--in fact, the bastard made a notation on my chart about my "addiction" that I didn't know about, and when I had a kidney stone attack this past fall, I actually had an ER physician who, after reading my chart, insinuated that I was "faking it" to get pain drugs! They didn't give me anything for the pain until they'd done the CT scan that proved the damn stones were actually there--unlike my previous experiences, where they gave me the pain shot first and did the CT scan second.

Anyway, enough about me. I learned my lesson, and I'm incredibly careful with that kind of medication now. You hang in there. One piece of advice--my stepbrother was a crystal meth addict a couple of years ago. He had similar problems to what you're describing. He went to a counseling center, and they got him connected to a wonderful psychiatrist. He got put on Effexor and Klonopin, and after a few months he was sleeping normally again. Maybe you could talk to a doc like that? :hug:
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GenDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Been hearing so much about prescription drug
addictions lately. My sons friend had brain surgery for an aneurysm and he ended up addicted to hydrocodone, and is still trying to kick it. My son's doctor has him on seroquel - it's supposed to help with the drug cravings and with sleep.

Sending out good thoughts for you, too. :hug:
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:20 PM
Original message
What you are experiencing is known as "using dreams."
It's perfectly normal to have them and wake up feeling high after you have them. I haven't used for many years and still have them. I had one about a month ago. My therapist describes it as the subconcious looking for something that isn't there anymore, so it goes as far as creating a whole alternate reality (a dream) to replace what's missing. Hang in there. The longer you're clean, the less frequently they'll happen.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
50. What you are experiencing is known as "using dreams."
It's perfectly normal to have them and wake up feeling high after you have them. I haven't used for many years and still have them. I had one about a month ago. My therapist describes it as the subconcious looking for something that isn't there anymore, so it goes as far as creating a whole alternate reality (a dream) to replace what's missing. Hang in there. The longer you're clean, the less frequently they'll happen.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
52. I wish everybody who ever considered doing meth would read your post
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 09:24 PM by GoddessOfGuinness
I am so sorry that you are going through this. I do not know what it is like at all. Your experience is enough to tell me that I do not want to know.

I hope what you've written reaches the eyes of someone who needs to think twice. :hug:
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. i'm so sorry....
i know what you are going thru as my brother was a tweaker. he also is an alcoholic, but joined aa and has been clean for the past 5 years (yay!). there can't be a worse addiction than crank/meth. it so destroys people :(
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smtpgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-07-07 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
60. I was in a seven year relationship with a crack addict,
Edited on Sun Jan-07-07 10:02 PM by smtpgirl
I became one of those people I so dispisely hate, a crack user. That was 18 years ago!!

I still have dreams of getting it, smoking & getting high with it, but I haven't had it for 14 years.

I gave up all of my associations that I had in those days, went back to school. It took A LONG time to earn a college degree and finally acknowlegde the dreams for what they were, MY PAST!!

I also went into counseling for awhile, my relationships with my SO at the time became a nightmare. I could not get my shit together, mostly for being as you say, grumpy, moody, etc. Not because I was using, but I could not deal with my feelings.

I have a place in my heart for you, please don't touch it ever again.


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