I was just sent this stupid "joke" by a 3-star USAF general (ret)

[Critters2]

who sometimes attends my church. I'm debating how, or whether I should respond.

Here's the "joke":

"A MARINE was attending some college courses between
assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and
Afghanistan.
One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed
atheist and a member of the ACLU. One day the
professor shocked the class when he came in, looked to
the ceiling when he flatly stated, "God, if you are
real, then I want you to knock me off this platform.
I'll give you exactly 15 minutes."

The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin
drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor
proclaimed, "Here I am God, I'm still waiting."

It got down to the last couple of minutes when the
MARINE got out of his chair, went up to the professor,
and cold-cocked him; knocking him
off the platform. The professor was out cold.

The MARINE went back to his seat and sat there,
silently. The other students were shocked and stunned
and sat there looking on in silence.
The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken,
looked at the MARINE and asked, "What the hell is the
matter with you? Why did you do that?"

The MARINE calmly replied, "God was too busy today
taking care of America's soldiers who are protecting
your right to say stupid sh*t and act like an a**hole.

So He sent me."

[SPKrazy]

1. Yeah, By Killing Iraqis They Are Protecting Our Right To Say What?

I guess that is the Saddam will never attack New York again mentality.

What do you expect from a stupid general?

[Critters2]

2. He's a West Point grad, too. If I had ever had any respect for the military

he's completely killed it.

[BikeWriter]

9. So you judge hundreds of thousands...

of military people by what one said? I cannot post my opinion of that. I'll just say I strongly disagree.

[Critters2]

11. He's a leader of those hundreds of thousands

The military leadership thought so well of him that they gave him three stars and the title "General" (not to mention enough money to buy a huge, beautiful house and a private plane). He's not just some grunt who enlisted to pay for college. He worked in the Pentagon, and, again, attained a high rank. I take the military at its word--they think this guy is the best they can produce. I think that's a sad reflection on the military, but who am I to argue?

[BikeWriter]

18. Again, I disagree most strongly with your "logic."

[Critters2]

19. But why did they make him a general, if not because they respect him?

[BikeWriter]

20. As a veteran, I consider myself a military person...

That general does not speak for me, nor anyone else in the military, except himself.

[qnr]

21. Precisely n/t

[BikeWriter]

23. Thank you.

[Critters2]

22. Again, why was he so honored. He's got a chest full of medals and those three stars

He din't get those out of a Cracker Jack box.

[qnr]

26. And you've never, in your life, heard of seeming idiots as bosses?

Besides, just because someone doesn't agree with his personal opinions doesn't mean that he is not well-qualified at his job.

[Critters2]

29. West Point grad, thirty year career, three-star general.

It's a little hard to see this guy as an anomaly. If the AF didn't think well of him, they had plenty of time to stop his rise up the ranks. Instead, they just kept saluting!

[qnr]

33. Just admit you have no real basis to your argument. People are people. Individuals. Just because

you don't like their personal beliefs, their party affiliation, their religious affiliation, it has not a whit of impact on their capability in carrying out a job professionally. Similarly, it does not, in any way, manner, or form relate to any other person in the military, who are all, also, complete individuals.

Just because my Governor says something, doesn't mean that I agree with it.

[Critters2]

35. Sorry, if the military wants to make a good impression, they should be more careful

as to who they make generals. This guy loves to let everyone know he's a general. If he doesn't reflect well on the Air Force, they should have been more selective. I suggest the brass are quite proud of this guy. He's the best and brightest.

[qnr]

36. The military isn't out to make a good impression. The military is out to do their

job.

[Critters2]

37. that job could be done better if idiots weren't made generals. nt

[qnr]

38. Um. yeah. Right. Thousands of years of producing military officers from innumerable countries

and now they have to check with you to see if you approve of a particular officer's sense of humor.

[Critters2]

40. I'm no fan of the military, and it doesn't help that they promote morons like this.

If you're offended by that, you'll just have to get used to being offended. Because I still think that any organization's decision as to whom to promote reflects on the organization.

[qnr]

44. OK, I'll think of that the next time some elected official makes a homophobic comment, because

obviously, as an American citizen, he is speaking for you.

[Critters2]

45. No organization made me bi. The general on the other hand, got promoted

by an organization. Please tell me you see the difference, or you'll only reinforce my view of the intelligence of the military.

[qnr]

47. You're comparing apples and oranges. The elected official is the General, hopefully you were

kidding, and in truth, were following your own argument well enough to know that. The elected official is in a position of authority over Americans just like the general is (was) over certain military members, yet his opinion doesn't have squat to to with what you feel or your orientation.

[BikeWriter]

46. ...

[Critters2]

48. You seriously believe some organization had a hand in my being bi?!!

Geez, that's a new theory! Who is it that conferred this honor on me, cuz some days I'd like to thank 'em and some days not.

Right--a three star general and a bisexual. An obvious comparison.

Thanks for confirming my opinion of the military.

[qnr]

50. Hopefully, you're being deliberately dense, as a New Years joke, it would take some

serious effort to misunderstand your own argument.

[Critters2]

52. Whatever. The fact is that a three star general in the USAF thinks

it's appropriate for military types to go around beating people up to make a point. I'm not surprised.
I still say he is what, from what I've seen, the military is all about. Members of the military will have to work damned hard to convince me otherwise.

[qnr]

53. Sorry, naturally, my last post wasn't directed at you :) n/t

[Critters2]

49. Elected officials do reflect on the electorate, for good or ill.

Just as generals reflect on the military.

[qnr]

51. Ok, then judging by numerous past comments by elected officials, you're a homophobic,

Iraq war loving, Bush supporting, pro-segregation type. We've got that figured out, so I'm done with the argument.

[Critters2]

54. I would assume

those who elected such a moron would believe that. If he doesn't represent my district/state, you wouldn't be wise to assume that about me. But if he does...

Just as I assume the US military is full of neanderthals who think that it's appropriate to beat up a person to make a point. I'd love to be given reason to think otherwise, but mostly I see three-star generals who behave this way. They don't pull those stars out of their ass--the military confers them, in gratitude for doing what it wants them to do.

Hence, I assume the military loves neanderthals like this.

[qnr]

55. Fine, though you might want to check your stylus for damage, that record is seriously scratched. n/t

[BikeWriter]

28. What does that have to do with the entire U.S. military?

[Critters2]

30. The US military gave him his three stars, They must have thought damned well of him. nt

[uppityperson]

59. They don't get boosted up because of respect necessarily.

Perhaps he put in his time, didn't get bad things written about him, perhaps had good recommendations on how he did his job, he passed the right tests to get upgraded. Respect? Not necessarily. Play the game? Probably. Do his job well? Probably also. He doesn't need respect for who he is, his opinions to get raised up.

[SKKY]

66. Holy Shit...

I wasn't aware 3 star generals made enough to purchase a private plane. At little more than 12K a month, it can't be much
of a plane, can it?

[WildEyedLiberal]

61. How is an Air Force general a West Point grad?

West Point is the Army Academy. The Air Force Academy is in Colorado Springs. I wasn't aware one could earn an Army officer's commission at West Point and then suddenly leap to a different branch of the military.

[Critters2]

65. He started at the academy before the Air Force Academy had opened

Before the AFA existed, Air Force cadets attended West Point. The Air Force was originally the Army Air Corps, and for some time even after it was a separate branch, AF cadets went to West Point. He was in the last class of Air Force officers that graduated from West Point.

[sarge43]

67. There's no rule against that.

It doesn't happen often, but a limited number of grads do transfer to other branches

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Snopes has an article about this.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp (scroll down).

It's one of a collection of apocryphal anecdotes about those Evil Atheists. The story quoted by Snopes is much like the one you posted, except the "hero" is a Navy Seal. But there's no evidence any of these incidents ever happened.

The Snopes article explains how these stories came about:

"The atheist professor" is a figure common to a number of urban legends and anecdotes of the faithful — he gets flung into the mix where there's a need for someone to play the role of Science Vanquished in Science-versus-Religion tales. But he is not inserted merely to serve as an icon of learning to be humbled in tales that aim to teach that faith is of greater value than proveable knowledge; he is also woven into these sorts of stories for his lack of belief. Just as the villain in oldtime melodramas had to have a waxed moustache, a black cape, and an evil laugh, so too must the bullying professor of such stories be an atheist — it would not be enough for him to be merely an insufferable, over-educated git arrogantly attempting to stretch the minds of his students by having them question something deeply believed. No, he must instead be someone who rejects the existence of God, an assignment of role that re-positions what might otherwise have been a bloodless debate about philosophy as an epic battle between two champions of faith and denial and sets up the action to unfold as one putting the boots to the other.

He's a stereotype, not an actual person. He exists to be knocked over by the persuasive arguments of the faithful in yarns about theology successfully defended....


Here's the problem with faith: that which are articles of it can't be proved. (According to our dictionary, faith is firm belief in something for which no proof exists. In other words, if such validations were possible, those concepts would stop being matters of faith and start being matters of fact.) Those who are convinced of the existence of God, therefore, have no incontrovertible, irrefutable answer to anyone who challenges them to provide evidence of the veracity of their belief systems' tenets. They are left unable to squelch the nay-sayers, to demonstrate beyond any shadow of doubt that their inner direction is the right one, and so have to endure the catcalls and jeers of those who insist on independently verifiable proof of that which can't be proven....


Stories about atheist professors being bested by true believers who did have answers at the ready are both ventings of this frustration and expressions of delight in finally seeming to have been armed with deft responses to fling back. These are tales of affirmation, modern-day parables of trials overcome and fierce adversaries bested by those who held fast to what they believed in, even in the face of ridicule rained down by authority figures. Like parables, they are meant to inspire similar resolve in those with whom they are shared — should those members of the flock ever find themselves in like circumstances, they should feel moved to emulate the brave little students of legend who stood up to the big, bad atheist professors.

[Critters2]

4. Oh, I didn't think it actually happened. I've been dealing with the general long enough

that I don't really expect the truth from him. Just party-line RW propaganda.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Next time you see General Nincompoop,

you might ask him, per the Snopes article, why, if his God is so all-powerful, he is so worried about the opinions of a few atheists. A "real" god will exist whether anyone believes in him/her/it or not. I've always wondered why so many fundies seem to think everyone has to believe as they do -- as if the failure of others to accept their beliefs should make any difference to them. Ask him whether God is like Tinker Bell in the Peter Pan story, who would have died if the children didn't clap to prove they believed in fairies.

[deucemagnet]

12. We already have one asshole who thinks God talks to him.

He got us into this war. We don't need another one punching out professors.

I think the best response would be be to cut and paste the above post (#3) into an email reply, though. It cuts the joke down at the knees better than any snarky comeback.

[Pierre.Suave]

5. I think that

I would have walked up and slugged the prof too, but just for being stupid.

Edit: why bother responding, it is doubtful it will accomplish anything.

edit again: about the only thing that I think would have any effect at all would be to e-mail him back and tell him to stop sending you such bullshit.

[Critters2]

7. I actually had a history prof at Illinois State who like to disprove

religious beliefs in Western Civ class. It pissed off the fundies, but I used to joke that I'd learn to quote whatever he said, if it would get me a good grade. It's best to just let people make fools of themselves--atheist, Christian, or whatever.

[crim son]

8. I'd write him about the virtue of humility,

resisting judgement and turning the other cheek, for starters.

[noamnety]

10. That joke has the oddest moral ever.

The marine assaults a person he disagrees with to shut them up, and claims he's protecting their right to free speech.

Anyone else see the problem with that?

[Critters2]

13. I see the problem. One of several problems with it. nt

[Redstone]

14. This one's old. And every bit as stupid as it's always been.

Redstone

[jobycom]

15. Odd, what some people find funny or relevant, isn't it?

[uppityperson]

16. God doesn't act on command.

[Critters2]

17. Which is why God shouldn't be in the military. nt

[bif]

24. It's not even funny

I just don't get the humor of it.

[Left Is Write]

25. It's not supposed to be funny.

It was circulated quite some time ago as a "true" story.

[bif]

32. My stupid

I've been drinking. Sorry.

[Critters2]

27. Me neither. Hence the "" around "joke". nt

[mitchum]

31. Is he the retired general who had 10 oz of semen pumped from his stomach?

[Critters2]

34. I don't think so. Though I'm not sure he would have mentioned it.

Critters' curiosity is piqued.

[mitchum]

43. I'm just conflating urban legends...

actually, I prefer to call them suburban legends because that is now where they circulate.
There's an old chestnut about:
a cheerleader at a rival high school
or
rock star (Alice Cooper, Rod Stewart, David Lee Roth, Marilyn Manson,etc..)
or
daughter of prominent businessman
who is rushed to the emergency room with severe abdominal pains. And, of course the reason is found to be some ungodly quantity of semen

Since the fool who sent you that is so enamored of suburban legends, I figured he wouldn't mind being placed in a classic

[Mz Pip]

39. And then...

the Professor had the MARINE arrested for assault and sued his cocky ass.


God does not micro-manage the universe.

Mz Pip

[Critters2]

42. I'm assuming that the Marine, being a man of honor, called the cops himself

pled guilty to assault, and was fully willing to serve the full sentence, in spite of the possibility of being pled down.

That's what a real man would do.

[baldguy]

41. Saying stupid shit and acting like an asshole.

Like saying you've taken God's place and assaulting someone for no reason?

[BlueStorm]

56. This is an old chain letter type e-mail

that gets sent around the Internet. This is usually sent by the fundies or the RW to prove or mock the left-wing thought on religion. There is an Islamic version of this as well.

Blue

[crispini]

57. I'd hold off responding until you can think of some funny way to "get"him back.

I had coworkers like this, who knew that I was a flaming lib, and would repeatedly test my limits by seeing if they could make me mad. They "win" if they get a rise out of you... so the way to do it to not get mad, but to wait, and see if you can think of something funny to send back, or find something funny to send back, to try to "score points" on him.... I'll see if I can think of a good example. That is one nice thing about email, you have a day or so to try and come up with your witty comeback!

[Critters2]

58. Wise advice. Thanks! nt

[Kerrytravelers]

60. I would hit REPLY ALL and say

I find this kind of hateful, childish name calling foolishness beneath someone of your rank. You should be educated enough to know that such a thing never actually happened nor would it. Not all Marines hate the ACLU and identify as Christian. I would hope a Marine would have more class than to punch a professor in the face. The fact that you would send this out somehow indicates that you agree with the sentiment, which I find absolutely appalling. Please remove me from your email list, I don't want to be included in a list that finds such nonsense funny, enlightening or even interesting.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

62. What a fucking idiotic joke.

As if atheists were so evil and hating of the troops that they deserved to be knocked out.

[Bridget Burke]

63. Respond with a link to Snopes--always the first stop to counter spam.

There are several variants of the atheist professor story.

Stories about atheist professors being bested by true believers who did have answers at the ready are both ventings of this frustration and expressions of delight in finally seeming to have been armed with deft responses to fling back. These are tales of affirmation, modern-day parables of trials overcome and fierce adversaries bested by those who held fast to what they believed in, even in the face of ridicule rained down by authority figures. Like parables, they are meant to inspire similar resolve in those with whom they are shared — should those members of the flock ever find themselves in like circumstances, they should feel moved to emulate the brave little students of legend who stood up to the big, bad atheist professors.

www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

If you're feeling exceptionally generous, present him with membership in the ACLU.

[grace0418]

64. My father-in-law sends that to me every six months or so. He must really

think it's funny and inspiring. I've given up trying to educate him. Considering he's an immigrant who came here in his thirties yet still sends out jokes and articles raving about how illegal immigrants are ruining America, I think any further attempts to get him to see the light are probably futile.

[Little Wing]

68. I had a chuckle

but maybe I can read a joke and not have fire coming out of my ears