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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 02:57 PM
Original message
My philosophy on depression.
From an article in Psychology Today.

I tend to believe that my type of depression is not treated with just medication, although right now I take no meds. And based on this article, what I believe for ME, seems to be true. For me.

{snip}
Critical thinking is crucial for overcoming depression. By this I mean the ability to examine the evidence and correctly assess the truth of your beliefs, to discriminate between things that you're responsible for and things that you're not. People tend to underestimate or overestimate the amount of control they actually have over situations. If they assume they're helpless when they're not, they don't even try. The ability to recognize what you are and are not responsible for is directly related to how much guilt you experience.



http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19970501-00...
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting...this is what I posted in the other thread


"I can't even imagine what its like. I've had A LOT of hardships in my life, but I've never felt that black hole of despair so many other people have. Its got to be the brain chemistry...some people are probably genetically pre-disposed to depression, as any other mental illness.

Although, it may have something to do with the fact that all my life I've been praticing a form of cognitive therapy (although I hadn't heard the term until later in life). Basically, I easily pick up distorted thought patterns in my head...once I identify them, I manipulate them. In effect, I don't feel the extremes of emotions many do...I don't get angry, sad, or even deleriously happy. I have almost perfect control over my emotions. Its really hard to explain how or why I do it.

Any emotion I show outwardly is more or less manipulative (not necessarily in a bad way). If I want someone to know I'm mad, I will purposefully "act mad". Lol..I sound sociopathic, but I'm really not, I swear.

However, my sympathies go out to all DUers (and even other, including freepers) who are devestated by depression. I've seem the effect these bouts can have on people, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy."



All humbleness aside, I have never met someone as able to critically assess themselves as well as I do. I am constantly checking and analyzing my feelings and emotions. And I haven't ever come down with any sort of depression, despite the fact that it seems to run in half my family.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I live with someone like you.
He practices a form of cognitive therapy, also. Seems to work for him. I keep waiting for the magic solution. Damn it all to know I have to do the work.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Critical thinking got me over the hump
Rationalizing good and bad and my part in it. A slow reading of the serenity prayers works nicely too:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change
change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm heading back to meetings tonight. Been a while.
Mr. Gray keeps putting critical thinking articles on my desk.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. I've thought about this a lot, too.
I strongly believe the mental affects the physical, and the physical affects the mental -- they're all tangled up together and that it's most helpful to try both changing chemistry and changing thinking. For some people, the origin might be purely chemical; others totally experiential.

In my case, medication works only temporarily if at all. But exercise works *very* well, if I keep at it. Not just a gentle walk, either: I have to really work out, three times a week.

One mental thing I did was give up on my self-loathing. I just stopped the constant, habitual, mental ragging on myself. It was a bad habit.

Every day I feel that the depression could come back, and I don't doubt that one day it will. But with exercise and sensible thinking, I mostly keep it at bay.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Exercise works for me too. But like you, it needs to be intense.
Bikram yoga (even without the heat) 3 times a week balances me, and staying on a grain/vegetarian diet keeps me level.

But I need to discipline my thinking more. I'm all over the place. Any emotional trigger, and I'm off and running.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Nothing beats a ten mile run
to combat a bout of depression. About 12 years ago I was really eat up depression wise and I ran and ran and ran my way out of it. My shipmates called me Forest Gump, in a loving sort of way. Kept the tummy trimmed as well.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. And nothing beats walking up and down a mountain once a day.
When I was living in the White Mountains, NH, I was hiking up and down my street, which was on the side of a mountain. Every day, American Idiot blasting in my ears, and I slept better, was calmer, and felt real happy. Walking on flat ground in Florida does NOTHING for me. NOTHING.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I know, I'm in Florida too
and miss my mountain hikes in NC. But I run and bike (against the wind we have this time of year it's like climbing a mountain lol). I took up canoeing and that is the best. Get a kayak and try it..it is fantastic. But you're right, exercise really really helps. I've not been clincally depressed I don't believe, but I am not sure if that is denial on my part in those circumstances or whether it is just that I'm a natural optimist.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I guess you'd know if you were depressed, so you must be doing it right.
I have to do more critical thinking. I come here and read the front page, and my day spirals out of control, rather than take it for information and then gather the facts around it. I get too emotional over info.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. No Warrior,
Be easy on yourself. I know what you mean. I let things get to me too. Sometimes I've wondered about depression (hell, I have a degree in Psych, lol), when I find myself not doing the things I like and so on. So then I just have to make myself get up and do them...and for me that works. The cognitive approach is definitely the one that is spot on for me....I grew up with a mom like Writer talked about...you know, just pull yourself together kind of advice. Funny thing is, my mom actually DOES suffer from depression and won't admit it. I love her dearly and I find it ironic that her advice works for me, but not for her. She really suffers from Seasonal Affective Disorder and I think I've finally convinced her this is a REAL thing. I try and get her to come down here in the winter months, but hell, you know moms.

Good thread btw.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks. See, when I converse with people like you, I tend to come out of depressive thought.
I need to stop being such a loner. When i was involved in 12-step programs, I was so good at telling others how to live their lives. Never took my own advice. Last few months have been an intense learning experience about my own shortcomings, and believe me, it's tough to admit I don't know shit.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Well, I am definitely a loner too,
so I guess I have to rely on myself to snap out of stuff. Ah, and don't be so hard on yourself. I have read plenty of your posts...I think you know SOME shit. ;-) :hug:
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I should, being as old as dirt...but I get in my own way sometimes.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Old as dirt...my ass!
anyway, we all get in our own way. No doubt about that.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Indeed, we do.
:applause:
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
51. ah-ha, 12 step programs
because your OP sounded like the serenity prayer.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. Chweck out some of the research relating SAD to vitamin D deficiency.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
46. I blew out my knees running.
I ran a lot! And at all hours, day & night.
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nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. I agree - for most cases
Edited on Fri Dec-15-06 04:08 PM by nini
Disclaimer - I am not talking about obvious physiological causes of depression that may require medication etc..

Everyone will experience some type of depression in their lives - it's human nature to have these ups and downs. When we are down we need to make a conscience effort to fight back and pull our lives back in order.

Critical thinking is part of it. Making ourselves get up and get out to go for a walk, go visit friends, exercise - ANYTHING to engage in life is critical to getting over the hump.

Sitting at home and just allowing the depression to take over is guaranteeing it will last longer than it needs to.


It's a battle to be sure, but sitting back and feeling sorry for yourself is the first thing you have to quit doing - you will get better when you allow yourself to.


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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Nail on head.
Thanks.
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plcdude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. thank you for the article
I have passed it on to a couple of other people who should benefit from reading it.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. Some of us need meds for awhile and cognitive work for always
When the meds started kicking in for me, it became possible to get the cognitive stuff working well. It didn't stand a chance before the right transmitters were back, tried it that way for years.

Once I started getting better, my sister gave me a small little book she always gave to new members of her sales team: Beyond Negative Thinking.

Wow. Just wow. Short, sweet and damned useful.

Taking specific supplements now, and without them, I can slip back under the dark water no matter how much critical thinking and cognitive work I do. But life is do-able and most days, down right enjoyable.

I was lucky. A couple years on the meds re-taught my body to make the chemicals I need. So long as I give my system the nutritional blocks it needs, the right chemicals get whipped up and put to use. The cognitive stuff is on going, but has become a good habit so not as much effort anymore.

Faced depression like the serious illness it is. Took the best of traditional methods (with help of a very good psychiatrist who understood my goals for myself and my strange body which overreacts to most meds, so he was damned careful about dose and monitor, also LISTENED and treated me like an intelligent participant in my own healing. Then, we switched to the vitamin/herbal approach for maintenance. As new studies come along, I self-tweak, feeling comfortable to monitor myself when I carefully try some new supplemental help. The good doc is long gone.

When bad thinking habits drift in, I will put up with it for awhile, to hear if there is any REAL message I need to pay attention to. Then, I hit the books and journal again.

And music is my drug of choice. Pay attention to how different things in one's surrounding affects mood and tweak that too. If I need energy, there is music for that. Need to be introspective, got the tunes. Wired but tired? There is musical help to really calm down.

Paying attention and doing the work pays off BIG! And you may find all sorts of new things your really like adding to your life.

Long, strange trip... but from where I am now, I am glad I toughed it out and stayed among the living. Even have enough energy to fight the right! :D
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. havocmom, this is one of the most important posts I've read. For me, anyhow.
And I thank you for that.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. You are most welcome. I can never repay those who helped me survive & thrive
but I can hold up a light in that dark tunnel for others who have hard road ahead.

My ex used to put dirt over the weeds he was supposed to pull. Problem was, in a couple days, the weeds just poked through the new dirt he tried to bury them with. He is still pretty unhappy, but blaming others instead of me.

I always enjoyed getting my hands in the dirt and yanking weeds with as much root as I could dig up. My hands look like shit, but, damn, I grow wonderful things in my garden now. ;)

It is worth the work. Trust that.

And one more tip, write this down on a 3x5 card and put it on your mirror:
Today is NOT what forever feels like.

Trust da momma ;)
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Today is NOT what forever feels like. Love it.
Kinda like ~ You're not your emotions.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. For me, more like: Just another mud puddle, not the black hole that ate the universe
;)
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. OMG, you are a source of goodness and light tonight.
:yourock:
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. But if you're clinically depressed, you CAN'T think that clearly.
You can't think your way out of real depression. And for someone to say you can, just demeans the seriousness of depression.

Depression is not a joke.

Redstone
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. True.
So fucking true. Which is another reason to not isolate.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Absolutely. You can only live inside your own head for but so long, even
at the best of times.

Don't isolate. Much as the siren of depression might call you to do so.

Redstone
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. A-friggin-men! It IS demeaning to tell someone they can think it away!
Cold and ignorant too.

It takes a full battle plan, and a lot of dedication. Takes educating ones self, courage, time, energy.

And it is worth the effort. The thing that often holds people back is that in their depression, they cannot see THEY are worth the effort and often, the physical side of depression prevents them from having the energy.

Do what it takes. Piss on anybody who derides your efforts. Life is to be tasted, savored, chewed, gulped and drunk in deeply. Do what it takes to get to the table and enjoy the feast.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Indeed
While I always advocate the benefits of Cognitive Behavior Therapy, there are times that depression gets so severe that other forms of treatment are necessary. When one is so depressed that they can't even articulate what they are feeling, what is wrong or what they need, they are obviously not able to effectively utilize therapies that rely on cognitive methodologies.

Those who think combating depression is just a matter of "thinking positive" don't understand it at all.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Right. And someone with depression has no idea what they want for themselves.
I don't when I'm depressed. Counselor's used to ask me that all the time. What do you WANT to do? Jesus, I can't even think about taking a shower and I'm supposed to figure out what I want to do? The recovery process is so complex and people who place their minds in the hands of others who really don't know what they're doing are playing with fire.
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BarenakedLady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. Thank you Redstone (n/t)
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
45. I think very well when I'm depressed.
But you bloody well don't want to know what I think about, and you don't want to be around me when I'm thinking like that.

It's like I go spelunking in hell, and I become a malignant cloud that sucks the life out of everything around me.

But I think just fine, and I'm very good at pretending I'm human while I'm like that, I've learned so many mental tricks for functioning I can even fool myself while I'm like that. But they are just cosmetics, covering up the underlying darkness.

And then I get my meds exactly right, and all the darkness goes away. I'm happy and I don't have to guard myself, I can just be me.

Weird stuff, and not a joke.

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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. "A malignant cloud that sucks the life out of everything around me." That may very well be
the best description of clinical depression that I've ever read.

I wish you hadn't had to go through what you did in order to come up with that description, but reading it may halp someone some day.

I'm sure it will help someone, actually. Thanks for posting it.

Redstone
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ncrainbowgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #45
57. that was me- most of my teenage years. (just dysthymic)
I functioned at at a high level, pretended that I was human. Heck, even psyched myself out enough to enjoy a few things. So many tricks, so many repressed emotions. High functioning achiever...

And then I had my first episode of major depression. Between the two depressive disorders, I broke down. Meds were introduced into my lifel
Eventually, they were the correct ones. And the dysthymia lifted as well as the major depression.

I was free. And I felt as good as I had pretended to act like I was feeling during high school.

When the meds "pooped out" after 5 years, I fell back into dysthymic patterns. Didn't remember how to pretend to cope. The mental tricks were no longer there- and I was VERY glad, once I realized what was happening- that I didn't remember how to fool myself into appearing human. I had my meds changed, just as I started slipping HARD into a major depressive episode.

And poof- after 6 weeks, I saw the sun again. I functioned at a high level again, enjoyed stuff, didn't need to fool myself into feeling human, 'cause I actually FELT human.

Very weird stuff. Sometimes "coping mechanisms" are good. Sometimes- like in my case, they were VERY bad- just covered up serious mental illness that could have been taken care of years before. I wonder what I'd be like now had I not spent years learning how to just cover up the fact that I was just going though the motions.


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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
60. Precisely. Depression is not something that everyone can "wish" their way out of.
I've been there, twice, and unless I am misreading the OP, the notion that if I just put on a happy face I can be cured is wrong. And dangerous.



Anti-depression meds have helped me and my mother-in-law, who suffers from ever advancing Muscular Dystrophy.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Redstone beat me to it
You can't think away bad brain chemicals.

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I tend to wear isolation like a comfortable old sweater, which makes it seem safe.
And yet, it's the most dangerous things in the world for me. I've gotten so good at it, I can actually isolate while I'm having a conversation with someone.

I think my depression has become self centered. That's what Mr. Gray said to me last night. All my goals and dreams are directed at something for myself rather than including other people. That statement hit me like a tons of bricks. Who knew that including other people in goals and dreams might get me off myself. Duh. It's not like I haven't heard that before at meetings. I am my worst teacher.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Ever see the Jeff Bridges movie 'Fearless'?
The part where he takes the other crash survivor to the mall for Christmas shopping blew me away! They were like ghosts no one noticed and they realized that. It gave a freedom - they could do anything. They could buy the presents they always wanted to give to people who weren't even alive anymore - because no body cared what they did!

WOW, that was liberating for me. And I was far enough along in my healing to dare to allow myself to be like a ghost. I could CHOOSE to isolate or NOT. I could allow myself periods of that solitude and then snap myself into being involved. The better I got at it, the faster I could shift gears.

Suddenly, isolation was just a pleasant place to visit and recharge instead of a pit to fall into and get stuck.

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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Never saw it, but I will get it.
Man, when the student is ready....
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Am just a PM away anytime you need to vent or rail!
I keep the computer humming most of the time. Set up my DU preferences to email me when there is a PM here and the email runs most of the time I am home.

Anytime, grasshopper :hi:
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. You know, I may just do that. And thanks.
You are the best!
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
33. 'I might be the only person on the face of the earth
that knows you're the greatest woman on earth. I might be the only one who appreciates how amazing you are in every single thing that you do, and how you are with Spencer, "Spence," and in every single thought that you have, and how you say what you mean, and how you almost always mean something that's all about being straight and good. I think most people miss that about you, and I watch them, wondering how they can watch you bring their food, and clear their tables and never get that they just met the greatest woman alive. And the fact that I get it makes me feel good, about me.'

- Melvin Udall (As Good As It Gets)

Now, that's using your noodle salad....





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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. No that was a great scene...
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
41. My experience and observation is that the coping mechanisms
that allow a depressive to function can become a way of life. I don't mean good habits like exercise but what more or less amounts to wallowing in depression. It gets to a point that they can't let go of the depression because it is how they define themselves. I don't see anyone here doing that, but I have come across it in some memoirs. It goes along with an attitude that somehow depressives are superior and that's why they're depressed. Some depressives are more sensitive to how others feel based on their own experience, but that's different from a sense of superiority.

When my depression is at its worst, all the good things like exercise are beyond my ability. It's only when I'm coming out of it that I can do the things I enjoy.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Coming out of it is tricky.
It's surprising to me what things actually either nudge me out of a depression, or snap me out of it, like a whack on the back of the head.
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-15-06 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
44. Mild Depression Can Be Treated Without Meds Usually
moderate to severe in my experience (professionally and personally as a mental health professional-scary thought in itself eh?)
cannot effectively be dealt with except with a full arsenal of meds, therapy, support, exercise, nutrition, etc.

To say differently is to minimize the illness and it's effects-including premature death by suicide, heart disease, etc.

Depression is serious, and yes, cognitive-behavioral therapies including using socratic reasoning, and disputation are effective for some, but not all. Not all can or will be able to utilize therapy. Not all have access to therapy.

We need a better health care system. Ours is BROKEN

No Offense Gray

:D
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
47. I think that I have become depressed
Although it is different than the depression that I had in my early to mid teens. At that time, I felt sad all the time.
This time, I don't feel at all most of the time. When I do, it is usually angry or sad, but it is not very deep, like how I used to feel. It seems that I really don't enjoy anything and nothing makes me happy. There are some things that I don't want to do, but there is nothing that I really want to do. I can feel superficially glad when things go my way, when what I was afraid of didn't happen, but it is not deep at all. It doesn't feel like feeling.
Despite this, I go to work every day and work 45-50 hours a week. While I am there, I am in perpetual anxiety because I am afraid that I cannot handle it. When I come home, I don't want to do anything except sit in front of the computer or watch a dvd, but everything I watch no longer seems to be entertaining. I feel tired a lot, but often wake up in the middle of the night, unable to get back to sleep.
I have suffered from severe anxiety in the past few years and still feel it, but it feels different. In some ways, it doesn't feel as severe. In other ways, it is more severe. I don't feel dizzy and warm as often, but I physically shake and suffer impaired thinking and memory because of it.
I have suffered from anorexia in the past couple years. In some ways, my behaviors are getting better. In other ways, the behaviors have just changed (restrict in public, binge in private).
I don't know if critical thinking would save me. The fact is that I am over my head at work, especially this past week and until the rest of the year since my boss is gone. My husband has not worked for a couple of years because of his own problems. I live far away from my family. My family does not call me, just sends me cards every once in a while telling me that I should call them, which I have a hard time doing. Because of some things that have happened in the past couple years, I don't have any close friends, not that I could feel close to anyone right now if I wanted to and don't know if I want any because of my lack of feeling towards anyone, my deep seated fear of being abandoned, and the fact that I have nothing except work going on in my life. Someone in my husband's immediate family is dying and there is nothing that we can do.
Of course, since moving this summer and starting my new job here, I have not gone to a doctor or therapist because I am afriad of so many things. I am afraid of taking antidepressents because they gave me weird side effects when I first got panic attacks five years ago and feel like I might be gambling with what functionality I have now.
As I write this and reread it, maybe there are things that I can do. It has also occurred to me that perhaps part of me doesn't want my full feelings back right now either.
Sorry if I sound like a nutcase. Perhaps,in order to feel better, I just have to walk outside in shorts in the cold before work every day since right now, I do not leave the house until it is light and am inside during the rest of the daylight hours.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Wow.
The most discouraging part of depression is feeling nothing. When I'm in this place, even anger is too exhausting. Today, I feel emotionally dead. There's nothing going on. I have tons of proof reading to do but I'm sitting here posting on DU and flipping through tv. I want to take a nap, but I can't sleep.

Reading your post does two things: makes me feel better that someone else is going through the same thing, and makes me feel sad that someone else is going through the same thing. And your pain is almost exactly like mine right now. Or at least the circumstances causes the pain.

I sometimes wish I was sure that there was another life after this one, because then I could just plan on doing better in that one. So far, this one has been a major disappointment. Of course, that's me today. Tomorrow, I may be back to being content with my life. All these ups and downs are enough to make me want to just nap 24/7.

No advice here, Nikia except to say that you aren't alone and maybe we should both make a commitment to either join a support group for the new year, or seek some therapy.
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Thanks
I know that I need to take that step to get help and I hope that you do also. I hope that things go better for you, I, and everyone else who is suffering.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. sometimes I feel the same way about the 'help' industry
as Tom Cruise does. I feel the same way about the medical industry in general. Their primary procedure is the 'emergency walletectomy' where they remove large amounts of cash from your pocket. Even when they do something necessary and good, the walletectomy is inserted as well. For example, I had a piece of chicken caught in my throat and could not swallow, not even my own saliva. So I went to the emergency room, and they gave me a nitro pill that relaxed my throat. But before they did that, they ordered the ubiquitous X-rays. Why? It's a tanjed piece of chicken. What is an X-ray gonna prove? Not only that, but radiation is not good for people. Anyway, final bill was $800, including $500 for x-rays. As a person who made $242 a week, I really appreciated that addition.

Your post about feeling nothing reminded me of the week after my dog died. In spite of that, my free advice, worth every penny, would be to get a dog. Your dog can make you mad by destroying your jeans or by puking on the living room rug, but can also make you happy by wagging their tail and acting goofy. They can love you and you love them without any of the strangeness that infects human relationships, and I think that's good for you no matter what else you do.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #47
56. You summed up my exact feelings
"This time, I don't feel at all most of the time. When I do, it is usually angry or sad"

That's the thing I have the biggest problem with, I just don't feel anything most of the time...

Except darkness...

RL
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
52. Just posted about this to another depression thread
Edited on Sat Dec-16-06 03:28 PM by FedUpWithIt All
I was diagnosed with dysthymia,It carried with it long term episodes of major depression (double depression)


It was later discovered that i average about two or three manic episodes a year changing my diagnosis. I also have diagnosed PTSD.

I have not been medicated for several years now and have been functioning pretty well but this was after a long time on a variety of meds.

The single most helpful thing to me was something called Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_emotive_behavior_ ...

Everyones brain has an immediate response to stimulus. Often it is negative. The trick is to take the negative thought, keep it from becoming an obsessive thought and replace it with a more logical one.

For example (bit over simplified of course)... Expecting a planned call from someone. No call materializes. First thought is negative such as, they don't like to talk to me, (in the case of a SO) They are with someone else... Some people will take these thoughts and twist and turn and analyze them until they are sick. Taking the original thought and putting it aside for a moment allows one to have time to think a bit more actively. The battery on their phone probably died, they might still be in a meeting, they fell asleep on the couch.

It is not easy but IT IS POSSIBLE to work one's brain into a healthier place if one wants it badly enough. I am in no way advocating going without meds. But this in combo with meds can change the future of someone's life.

I simply could not see myself living the way i was...indefinately. I realized that "i" had to change some things because they were clearly not changing on their own and the meds only "helped".

Edited to add...The only mental health issue i still battle with is the PTSD. The episodes can be quite unpleasant as they manifest in a very physical way. But the REBT has helped decrease both the frequency and the intensity of these. They are very rare now.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Thanks for posting this info.
And welcome to DU.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-16-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Thank you, graywarrior...
:hi:

There were days I would be in such a bad place that it was tough to go to the bathroom. Eating became a chore. There were a precious few moments when it would "break". It was sort of like the moment the clouds part and everything becomes incredibly vibrant all of the sudden. If it wasn't for those moments of clarity i don't think it would have ever occured to me that things COULD BE a different way. I still struggle a lot and things are not great still, but in my darkest moments i force myself to remember those moments when everything looked beautiful clear and bright. Even when i cannot "see" it i KNOW it exists and it will be there when i come through the dark again.

:hug:

Your not alone in this struggle.
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ncrainbowgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. Big hugs from another double depressive.
(dysthymic/major depressive disorder)

Currently in remission, but I know that this hell can come back. It has before. (Prozac Poopout!)


take care. You also aren't alone in this struggle. :hug:
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Interesting that depression can go into remission.
Never thought about it that way.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Big hugs right back atcha.
:hug:

Ahh, Prozac. I'm allergic to it. THAT was fun. :P
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-17-06 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
62. Until I found Zoloft, I thought the whole "chemical imbalance"
argument was hooey. I always asked how they could know what was wrong with my brain chemically when they only asked a few questions and never performed any medical tests.

I do wish they would do brain scans of some sort more routinely and match up antidepressants with the type of depression more closely. I imagine they are working on it, but I tried antidepressant after antidepressant with suicidal thoughts increasing and even "talking battery chargers" in one case. Let's just say Prozac was NOT for me. The "talking battery chargers" never happened before I tried Prozac and never happened after it drained from my system, thankfully. I did not like that experience. Sinequan just made me gain weight.

The others I cannot even remember the names either made me dwell on negative stuff or think about a gun next to my temple every time someone spoke to me. I hated that too. When I was on no antidepressants for a long time, it got to the point where when someone spoke to me I would think about a gun to their forehead or dismemberment and other such horrendous stuff. I'd say Zoloft has done wonders with me. I actually find my earlier thoughts in life disturbing now. I'm halfway acceptable as a human being now, right? :D
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