Teen murderer who killed because he was bored, says prison "too hard"

[slackmaster]

And his mom says it's "unfair".

No, this is not an article in The Onion.

...DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- One of the teenagers responsible for beating a Holly Hill homeless man to death asked a judge to reduce his 22-year prison sentence Monday. Warren Messner and three other teens pled guilty to killing the man because they were bored, but Messner said prison is too hard....

...He didn't feel bad then, but he does now. He has been in juvenile detention for eight months, locked in a small cell and occasionally allowed to go to class.

Messner and his attorney said he has already learned his lesson and is ready to go home to help others.

"I want to be an inspirational speaker for troubled teens," he said Monday....

http://www.wftv.com/news/10458584/detail.html

:nopity:

[Pool Hall Ace]

1. Boo-hoo.

Let me join you in the serenade.


:nopity: :nopity:

[cwydro]

2. My heart bleeds for him

NOT.

[Left Is Write]

3. Too hard? Tough. Deal with it.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

4. The little sociopath should have thought of that before killing a man.

Prison is supposed to be hard, asshole.

[Phillycat]

5. Luckily, the judge agreed with us.

He basically said "SUCK IT" to that kid and he's in for 22 years.

[plcdude]

7. He probably is

on a regular basis.

[BarenakedLady]

6. Yeah

Sounds soooo remorseful and rehabilitated :sarcasm:

[MissMillie]

8. Oh the irony....

imagine how hard it was to have the life of the homeless man that he beat to death! :nopity:

[MrCoffee]

9. awww, poor baby, jail is too hard

:cry:


that's gonna go over real well with the guys on Cell Block C. sit with your back against the wall at lunch, dickweed.

[dysfunctional press]

10. he's not even in prison yet...

he's in "juvenile detention"...

if he thinks things are too hard now, just wait until he graduates to the REAL big house...

poor little bitch...

[Bassic]

12. That's what I was thinking as well

He's going to get eaten alive when he gets to the real thing.

[Deja Q]

15. And not in a good way.

Fortunately.

[Bassic]

17. Quite.

[kay1864]

11. I am in total agreement with the replies above

And notice how every one of us "bleeding heart liberals" is being tough on crime? FReepers would expect us to say "but he's REHABILITATED, can't you see?" Contrary to their stereotype, we're showing compassion for the victim, and we realize what a whiner this kid is, who obviously does not comprehend the enormity of the crime of murder.

(FWIW, I prefer the term "reasonable liberal" myself)

[El Fuego]

13. Maybe he won't be so bored in adult prison.

When he's getting the crap beat out of him, and worse. Then he'll have an inkling of what his victim went through.

[Deja Q]

14. He can be an inspirational speaker for troubled teens...

...by doing a podcast from inside his prison cell. Lots of kids use ipods in schools and would get to hear him right enough (or see him if it's a video ipod...)

Which reminds me, the use of music players in class is something I severely object to, but I'm not known for being "cool" either...

[dysfunctional press]

18. there's lots of possibilities there...

for instance- podcast the audio of him tossing some lifer's salad...

scared straight- the podcast.

[Deja Q]

42. !

:spray:

:(

but

:spray: all the same

If only the guy had enough sense not to kill. Let him rot.

[AlCzervik]

16. boofuckinghoo Warren.

[Phx_Dem]

19. The kid should at least have access

to mental health services and educational programs. What age do we give up on kids now? 15, 12, 10?

[slackmaster]

20. He'll get all that once he gets into prison

They'll take good care of him there.

[Phx_Dem]

23. I assume your being sarcastic

hope his pain and suffering makes you all feel better.

[slackmaster]

25. I don't know about prisons in his state, but here in Califonria

Prisoners do have access to mental health counseling, and educational opportunities.

...hope his pain and suffering makes you all feel better....

No, I just feel a little safer knowing the little monster is behind bars.

[Phx_Dem]

27. To clarify

In a juvenile facility the kid would receive individual, group and family counseling as well as substance abuse counseling if warranted. While adult facilities are now starting to develop programs for juveniles, it's hardly the same thing.

[pokerfan]

28. I hope *you're* being sarcastic

hope his pain and suffering makes you all feel better.

It makes me feel a little safer knowing the monster is locked up. Perhaps he will serve as a deterrent for other monsters.

[Phx_Dem]

31. So at what age do we decide that kids have turned into monsters

and cannot be helped? Not a rhetorical question btw.

FYI--the so called "deterrence effect" is something law enforcement made up. It assumes that criminals are making decisions based on a rational cost-benefit analysis, which could not be further from the truth.

[pokerfan]

34. You're saying he's too young?

to be held accountable for his actions?

the so called "deterrence effect" is something law enforcement made up.

If you say so.

[Phx_Dem]

37. Minors are not held to the same standards

as adults, which is why we have a seperate juvenile justice system in the US.

Regarding deterrence:

The Deterrence Effect of Law Enforcement: An Evaluation of Recent Findings and Some New Evidence

Six attempts to measure the deterrence effect of law enforcement on certain criminal activities, as well as one by the author, have produced no clear, unequivocal evidence to support the belief that increased public expenditures on law enforcement have a deterrent effect on such activity. Yet the effect may exist. Further research into the measurement of the variables crime and enforcement and upon the nature of the relationship between them must be carried on before definite conclusions can be reached about the existence of the deterrence effect.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1536-7150.1975.tb01192.x

Deterrent and Experiential Effects: the Problem of Causal Order in Perceptual Deterrence Research
....
For perceived certainty of arrest for generalized others, the observed deterrent effect was weak and in every instance less than the experiential effect. However, perceived certainty of one's own arrest produced modest but consistent deterrent as well as experiential effects. A path analysis suggests that the deterrent effect of perceived certainty (personal or aggregate) is much weaker than once believed and the experiential effect is substantially stronger. The implications of these findings for an interactive model of de terrence are considered.
http://jrc.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/19/2/172

[pokerfan]

47. Which is why he's being held in juvenile detention

which is why we have a seperate juvenile justice system in the US.

Possibly also why he didn't get life.

I reviewed your sources. I missed where they said that the "deterrence effect" is something law enforcement made up. But I will agree that it is probably exaggerated.

Setting aside the deterrence effect, I believe that there is value in making sure that this particular individual ceases to indulge in this particular form of entertainment in the future.

[Phx_Dem]

48. We don't have enough info

but going by this:
"He has been in juvenile detention for eight months, locked in a small cell and occasionally allowed to go to class."

That does not sound like any juvenile "jail" I have ever worked in. More likely a county juvenile detention center or an adult one with a juvenile area. Here is some info from a juvenile secure care facility:

"The Arizona Department of Juvenile Corrections operates and maintains four secure care facilities for the custody, treatment, and education of committed juveniles. Each juvenile placed in a secure facility receives rehabilitative services, appropriate to the juvenile’s age, risk, needs, abilities, and committing offenses. This includes education, individual and group counseling, psychological services, health care, and recreation. In addition, treatment groups and specialized housing units focus on juveniles with histories of violence, substance abuse or sexual offenses.

A Unit Manager is the administrator for the housing unit, and each housing unit has a Program Supervisor, a Caseworker, and Youth Correctional Officers to monitor each youth treatment plan.

In addition, the Agency employs and contracts with health care professionals who manage and deliver direct services, including medical, dental and psychiatric services to committed youth. Each secure facility employs full-time medical staff that facilitates the provision of primary care medical services seven days a week."

http://www.azdjc.gov/SafeSchools/Overview.htm


"Setting aside the deterrence effect, I believe that there is value in making sure that this particular individual ceases to indulge in this particular form of entertainment in the future."

Agreed.

[philosophie_en_rose]

36. It is up to him to change. We can offer help, but only he can take it.

Some changes are not in our power. There is really nothing that can be done to provoke a sociopath into caring for others. He should, of course, have the resources to seek treatment and an education, but it is up to him to truly learn from them. Treatment providers are not magical fairies that can magically change someone's inner being - particularly not against their will.

In any case, there is no proof that he isn't a threat or has learned anything from treatment (if he participated in it). The fact that all he can think about is capitalizing on his crime indicates a sincere lack of insight.

He tortured a vulnerable person on repeated occassions - FOR ENTERTAINMENT VALUE. He deserves punishment for that. Juvenile rehab is hard, but it's the functional equivalent of giving him the time to think about his crime.

I don't think we can walk away from anyone. I hope that he is encouraged in a quest for self-reflection and I hope he learns to give a damn about others. But treatment is not a cure-all and we need to be pragmatic about the purpose of incarceration. Rehabilitation is important, but - in its absence - containment is key.

[Phx_Dem]

39. I'm not suggesting that the kid should be released

Sociopathy is a treatable personality disorder, there are many effective psychological interventions in use, and obviously the sociopath needs to be interested in change.

[Taverner]

29. No but his self actualization will

When he sits in prison for all those years and finally "gets it"

[MissMillie]

22. I agree that he should have access to all that

for sure.

He could have a Ph.D. by the time he finishes his sentence. Now THAT's what I call rehabilitated!

[eyepaddle]

24. Here's when I give up on them

They admitted to beating Roberts, returning to the scene three times over a three-day period, kicking and punching him, beating him with sticks and rocks, and jumping on him, continuing to do so even though Roberts begged them to stop.

Monday morning, family members of the victim had to tell their feelings directly to the judge.

"They did not give my brother a second chance, even though they could have. Please don't give them a second chance," said the victim’s sister, Dawn Anderson.

When you are that sociopathic, I just don't know if re-hab is possible. However to be honest, I am more than a little afraid of what they'll be like when they get out.

[Pool Hall Ace]

30. Yes, he should.

Anyone who can take another's life without batting an eyelash definitely needs mental health services, and I hope he does get help.

from the article:

"Did you feel bad when you are doing it?" Messner was asked during questioning.

"Not really, no," he replied.

He didn't feel bad then, but he does now. He has been in juvenile detention for eight months, locked in a small cell and occasionally allowed to go to class.

Messner and his attorney said he has already learned his lesson and is ready to go home to help others.

I would love to know exactly what lesson he has learned, besides the one about jail being hard.

[blondeatlast]

40. What would you like to bet that mom and dad supported that, too?

"It'll never happen to my kid..."

[Phx_Dem]

43. Yeh, and a lot of people think boot camps and tough love

are the way to deal with juvenile delinquency. :eyes:

[jmowreader]

45. Whatever age they kill someone at

I bet that poor judge was sitting there listening to this moran whine about prison being hard thinking, "can't I give him some more time just for wasting mine?"

[Rambis]

21. Jail is hard work

:nopity:

[madinmaryland]

26. Given what he did, sounds like he got what he deserved.

Given that he is a freeper, he should be used to being in a small room, except he now has no computer to talk to his wing-nut friends.

[Oeditpus Rex]

32. Perhaps this sociopathic punk

would prefer the alternative he and his sociopathic punk friends gave the homeless guy.

You killed a human being, punk. Be glad you're presumed to be alive for the next 22 years. It could've been different.

[philosophie_en_rose]

33. Exactly. This killer shows no remorse. None.

He just thinks jail is inconvenient. He's bored and does not have the opportunity to entertain himself by torturing a homeless person repeatedly.

[texas1928]

35. It is supposed to be hard.

So he needs to learn to deal.

[blondeatlast]

38. Betting that mom and dad supported the mandate that violent crimes

committed by juveniles be prosecuted as adult crimes--any takers?

Boo-fucking-hoo. what did a smart person say about making your own bed?

[Initech]

41. Dont do the crime if you cant do the time!

:nopity:

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

44. Ummmmmmmmm

it's a bit too soon son for me to think you've learned your lesson. See you in about 10 years, then we'll talk......... :shrug:

[MrSlayer]

46. Wait until he gets to the Big House.

If he thinks juvey is hard wait until they get him in prison. He's really going to regret his actions then.

[billyskank]

49. Ah yeah, fair enough, might as well let him out then

:rofl:

[BluePatriot]

50. Reminds me of Bush...waaaah hard work! (nt)

[BreweryYardRat]

51. Little shit needs to quit bitching.

Kill someone who hadn't done anything to you, and then whine about your sentence? Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

[cobalt1999]

52. being beaten to death is hard too.

Tough shit punk.

The mom says it's "unfair"...obviously he didn't learn personal responsibility from her.