Have you ever seen a ghost?

[raccoon]

I am serious here.

If you have, was it someone you had known? Did the ghost communicate with you or just appear?

[BlooInBloo]

1. I see dead people.

[MrCoffee]

34. I smell dead people.

[Xipe Totec]

2. Other than Lieberman? No. n/t

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

6. Bastard! You beat me to it!

A pox on you.

[Xipe Totec]

17. ...

:woohoo:

[mcscajun]

3. I'm certain I saw my mother's ghost a night or two after she died.

She died at home, and I saw her walk from the living room into the kitchen. No, she did not speak, and I never saw her ghost again.

It was about 40 years ago, so I don't recall the precise night anymore.

[zanne]

11. I'm not religious, but I think it's possible.

I don't know what I think of an afterlife, but every time I'm in the presence of someone who dies (this has happened four times), I "feel" them for a few days afterward. I really don't think it's something that happens because I want it to. It just does.

[mcscajun]

14. I'm not religious, either, and I really wasn't back then, either.

But damn if seeing her for that brief moment didn't give me the shivers.

[jeanarrett]

23. Interesting. My grandmother lived to be 103.

She had many "experiences" in her life, seeing ghosts, out-of-body, etc. Her claim is that the spirit stays around the family for three days before moving on. Would talk to my dad the few days after he committed suicide-why, Pat? Why?

[idgiehkt]

35. so sorry

to hear about your Dad. My condolences.

[TheFriedPiper]

4. hahahahahahahahaha

o man, that's rich

[Caution]

5. Nope. Mainly because they don't exist

[soothsayer]

26. You mean you've never seen one, don't understand what they

could be, are waiting for the day that slooowwwwww, stubborn science finally tells you that they exist (how many years did it take science to acknowledge the existence and importance of vitamins after trying to badmouth every early adopter?)

[Ravenseye]

72. You mean the vitamins that scientists discovered?

Scientists like James Lind are the ones that saved countless lives by isolating the various vitamins (C in his case).

Science didn't deny the existance of vitamins, though some along the way questioned the value of supplements versus getting the same vitamins naturally through food.

The existance of Ghosts is a bit different.

[cobalt1999]

65. I'm with you.

Never seen one and I don't believe they exist.

[SteppingRazor]

161. What you said

:thumbsup:

[Solly Mack]

7. just the ghost of democracy

and it said "I was starved to death"

[jeanarrett]

8. No, however, I have talked to them.

And it was family.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. No, but I think I photographed one. I live in a 148 year-old house and

actually hoped we'd have ghosts. I was taking pictures of a newly redone room with my digital camera and when I copied them to my computer and displayed them, there were several 'orbs' or perfectly round whitish circles in the corner of the room.

[kay1864]

154. Those are most likely very small spots on your lens

I get those in almost every picture I take with my digital camera.

[Ian David]

10. Yes, I have had two hypnagogic hallucinations as a child.

Fortunately, even my tiny little seven year-old mind was able to grasp the concept that there is no such thing as ghosts.

[whistle]

12. Isn't this topic DU Lounge material?

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. Not necessarily. It is of general discussion material. Some people

believe. Some don't. Just because you may not want to discuss it doesn't necessarily mean it should be shuffled off. :hi:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

13. I have had none of those experiences.

No ghosts. No UFOs. No voices in my head. Not one damn metaphysical experience.

Even during my one LSD experience, back in the early 70's, I didn't have one damn hallucination. I just giggled and sweated. Everyone else was watching Fantasia on the backs of their eyeballs.

Jeebus, I am boring.

[Neecy]

15. I have....

When I was in my early 20's I lived in a pre-war brownstone apartment building - nasty little place, no air conditioning, old radiator for heating. Typical first apartment.

I had a small table in a corner of my living room that, one day right after I moved in, I threw my mail on and went to take a shower. When I went back into the living room, the mail was all over the floor - scared me, because I thought someone had been in the apartment while I was in the shower. The window wasn't open so it wasn't the wind blowing it around.

Over the next couple of weeks, things I'd put on the table would be moved, thrown (sometimes across the room) and once something disappeared that I never did find. I had no explanation for it and never actually saw anything move - it always happened when I wasn't home or in another room.

Late one night, about a month later, I heard a loud crash from the living room and, too young & dumb to just lock my bedroom door in case I was being robbed I ran into the living room, and in this same corner saw the figure of a woman pointing at me. Then it disappeared. THEN I had the sense to be scared. I moved out days later.

Apparently I invaded someone's corner --- I never believed in stuff like this until I actually experienced it.

[yorkiemommie1]

27. sounds like what my daughter is experiencing now

she doesn't spend much time there any more. waiting til her lease is up.

edited to say my dad used to tell me he'd seen things a couple of times but i never have and never want to.

[Finder]

18. I thought I had...

but know it was just my mind's way of helping me to cope/accept. It is quite common to have the experience after the death of a loved one.

[laylah]

19. As a matter of fact...

I have seen a ghost (a dearly loved uncle who was murdered when I was 17, no communication other than a smile) and I have felt one.

My first night in my new home in July 2002, here in Illinois. I was sitting alone on my patio, unwinding from the stress of the previous few days...I had left my beloved Colorado (irreversable menopausal moment), my adult children, a life of 28 years, to move back to where I was born. As I sat, weeping quietly, I felt my dad's hand on my shoulder (he passed in 1984) and heard him say "It's going to be okay, baby, it's going to be okay". It was an amazing and comforting moment.

Jenn

[nancyr]

21. Seeing ghosts

I've never seen one, but my husband, who was the most down-to-earth person I ever knew, did encounter one. It made a believer out of him real fast! He encountered a pioneer woman in a long brown dress in the hallway one night. Thought it was me at first, but realized she had blonde hair(I don't), and wondered why in the world I was dressed so funny! We were renting a house which was near the ruts of the Oregon Trail and he felt she was looking for someone. He never laughed at people who believed in ghosts again, for sure. I don't either.

[etherealtruth]

25. Had a very similar experience ...

At a time a extreme stress and change I felt a very dear aunt wrap her arms around me and reassure me (she had been dead for at least 5 years). I felt so comforted, reassured and loved (I am teary now, just recalling the experience which occurred 6-7 years ago).

I don't know whether it was my mind "playing tricks on my conscious being" or if it was my aunt ... what I do know is that the experience was intense and wonderful.

[Stargazer99]

20. If you are new to experiencing ghosts your mind will buck and

try to find any rationalizations that will work. But not everything that happens is rational according to our material systems. I've seen several ghosts in my lifetime...none have spoken to me nor have the visions stayed but briefly. I attribute that to the level of my spiritual growth. One must walk before one runs. Some people never see ghosts and I believe because either being able to see ghosts is an inborn genetic factor (many psycics have relatives gifted so) or it is the level of one's spiritual growth. I'm not sure which or if those are the actual reasons...there is a vast amount that is not known. One word of advice, please do not play with a ojuia (spelling not correct)board...some have opened up a vortex for unpleasant enities in doing so. Try googling a site for the Warrens (ghost hunters). The Warrens have had a life time of ghost hunting and can give you more info.

[hyphenate]

54. I've never had a negative experience

with a Ouija board. I've heard a lot of people say they have, but my experiences with the Ouija board have all been positive.

We used to have this one "spirit" who called himself "NZ" who was fun to work with. He said he was essentially the "switchboard" to the world of spirits. He used to keep typing "mess around" a lot. He used to be frustrating, but he was never evil.

I played with the Ouija for about 15 years, and never a bad experience. I guess some people just go in without trusting themselves and end up being too frightened to control the situation.

[datadiva]

22. I photographed one

at Drayton Hall in Charleston SC while I was there on vacation several years ago. I didn't know I had photographed it until I was home. You can feel the vibes when your in the house. The historical society owns the house now so it is preserved in it's original condition and not restored like most of the plantations in the area. Very interesting place to visit.

[livetohike]

29. I've seen ghosts in Drayton Hall too

I used to live near Charleston and it was one of my favorite places to take visitors :-).

[datadiva]

105. I think my ghost is a child

He's at the top of the stairs looking through the slats. I went back inside after the tour went out and snapped a few more pictures. I don't know why I went back in but just felt compelled to do so. Imagine my surprise when I got home and looked at the pictures. The stairway was empty, as was the house. The pictures not real clear but the form is there and you can see the outline clearly. I really liked visiting Drayton Hall. Wonderful place, full of history.

[livetohike]

108. That is really cool!

I never took any pictures inside. I have some of the outside.

The ghost I saw (more than once) was a male about 20 years old or so and dressed in evening clothes.

I love Charleston. I loved going to the historic sites.

[MorningGlow]

24. Haven't seen one but sure felt the effects

There was the ghost of a little boy in a house I lived in when I was young. He used to take my toys (I had his bedroom). Even at 9 years old I had the sense to not be angry, just say "give it back", and go wait in the hall for a few minutes. Invariably, my toy would be back in the room, usually in the center of my bedspread, which I would have found there on my initial search(es).

That and having our bed shaken in a hotel in New Orleans. And I mean SHAKEN. Not an earthquake either!

Also the first house DH and I owned had several "residents", and we'd always see someone go by outside and rush out onto the deck but no one would be there. Wasn't a high-traffic area either (on a lake, down a lot of steps from the road).

On edit: Bad grammar! Bad!

[WePurrsevere]

28. Yes... related & not & yes, communicated. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. Why isn't this in GD???

:shrug:


I had to. I hate it when one a...oops person...has a problem with something. Too many bitchers and moaners if you ask me.

[LSK]

37. why isnt this in the Sports forum?

:D

[Zhade]

121. I'm guessing because it's not discussion of something tangible?

They don't allow discussion of UFOs or Bigfoot in GD, either.

[ScreamingMeemie]

140. Says you. While I don't believe I think people have a right.

And, if one has a problem with this discussion one can use one's hide thread button. :eyes: Spare me.

[Zhade]

157. Intangible was the wrong word to use.

Especially when discussing the possibility of ghosts, which wouldn't be tangible!

To be truthful, it was just a guess - I have no idea why they moved it, other than the UFO/Bigfoot comparison.

(And I don't have a problem with the discussion, as I participated. So "spare me" your :eyes:)

[livetohike]

31. Yes, I have seen them - I've seen them my whole life

.....I have shared sightings with others, too.

[Rising Phoenix]

32. many

since I was a little girl I've been seeing them

[idgiehkt]

33. I had one of my pets come back on a regular basis

Right after he died. I would feel him lying on my bed where he always used to lay. He stayed around me a long time. I had relapsed a week before his death and I was really having a hard time and I was also guilt-ridden about the circumstances of his death and I think he wanted me to know that he was fine and everything was okay.

[Mad_Dem_X]

59. What a sweet story

I've never seen a ghost but I do believe in spiritual beings, both human and animal. There's a lot going on in the universe that we will never fully understand.

[Benfea]

36. No, and neither has anyone else.

Delusions notwithstanding.

[johnnie]

39. Prove it

[Benfea]

40. That's a joke, right?

Please tell me that was a joke.

[johnnie]

41. No, it isn't

I just want you to prove that no one has ever seen a ghost or spirit. You seem pretty sure of it.

[idgiehkt]

42. people see Elvis all the time though.

Maybe he really is still alive...

;)

[Benfea]

43. Prove that My Magic Pony isn't real

Logic 101: you can't prove a negative. That doesn't mean every outrageous statement you can come up with must be true.

[johnnie]

45. I never said you didn't have a Magic Pony

And what is a negative here? You seem quite positive that no one has ever seen one in your statement.

[Benfea]

47. Yes. I'm also positive that My Magic Pony isn't real.

It is not incumbent upon me to furnish proof of the existence of My Magic Pony nor ghosts. The burden of proof is lain upon those making the claim, and to date scientifically-accepted proof has not been furnished. Not in any capacity.

[johnnie]

49. But you said...

No one ever has. I want to know what proof you have that not one person since the beginning of mankind, billions upon billions of people have never seen one. I want facts to back up your statement. You are the one who made the claim that you know this to be true.

I also want to know how you come to the conclusion that I am delusional. You never met me, you don't know me but yet you are positive that I am a delusional person.

That's all I am asking.

[Benfea]

51. Fine.

I want you to prove to me that not one person in all of humankind in all of human history has never encountered My Magic Pony.

And you're not delusional, you just have an extremely poor grasp of the basics of logic.

[johnnie]

55. Did I ever say you don't have a magic pony?

It's not about basic logic, I have what is called an open mind. It doesn't mean I am stupid, gullible or uneducated, it means that I allow the room for the possibility of different things.

When someone closes their mind to possibilities, they stop themselves from moving beyond the mundane. People like you remind me of the people who laughed because someone said the world was round, or laughed when people talked of building a machine to fly in. It's fine not to believe in possibilities, but I think it lacks character to laugh at people who do. The ones that are open minded are the creative people. They don't think that something can't be done because no one has ever shown it could be.

It's fine if you want to stand by your "basic logic". I am just a bit put off by people thinking that just because science doesn't show proof of something, then it can't exist. Science is still new. It isn't exact and it has a long way to go. Breakthroughs in science happen every day, and I believe they have just touched the surface of what will be discovered. Science isn't the end all to a lot of people, and it's cool if you need it to think, but it is just another tool in this universe to learn.

I have had experience with things beyond what science tells me I am allowed to have. I feel no need to prove to you what I have experienced, and I feel no need to know about your Magic Pony. Then again, I am giving you the respect for you to believe in what you want to believe and not tell you that you are lacking basic logic.

[Benfea]

71. If you define "open minded" that way, then no, I'm not open minded

And that still doesn't make bad logic into good logic.

Yes, I accept that there is a possibility that the Easter Bunny is real, but until someone furnished some semblance of truth, there is nothing wrong with assuming that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist. I find it curious that you think assuming that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist makes me closed-minded and mundane.

People like you remind me of the people who laughed because someone said the world was round, or laughed when people talked of building a machine to fly in.

Here you go with more bad logic. People who said that the world was round had proof to back up their arguments. It was people like you who resisted the idea of a spherical Earth, people who are used to making arguments without a shred of proof or logic, and who get angry at anyone who insists on the use of either.

It's fine if you want to stand by your "basic logic". I am just a bit put off by people thinking that just because science doesn't show proof of something, then it can't exist. Science is still new. It isn't exact and it has a long way to go. Breakthroughs in science happen every day, and I believe they have just touched the surface of what will be discovered. Science isn't the end all to a lot of people, and it's cool if you need it to think, but it is just another tool in this universe to learn.

Science has been around for hundreds of years now. Don't you think they'd have come up with some proof (however vague) of the existence of Santa Claus (or ghosts or the Boogeyman or whatever) by now? People have been trying to prove the existence of ghosts for as long as the scientific method has been around and not one of those people have furnished the tiniest bit of proof. Not one.

I have had experience with things beyond what science tells me I am allowed to have.

People believe all kinds of stupid things, just look at your history books. That doesn't make them true. Not too long ago (compared to the whole of human history, anyway), many Europeans believed that necrophilia could bring back the dead. Are you prepared to have sex with corpses or are you too "closed-minded" for that?

[johnnie]

79. Believe in what you want, I don't really give a shit

*You* are the one who stated plain and simple that no one has every seen a ghost. All I asked is that you backed up your statement with facts.

As you said "but until someone furnished some semblance of truth, there is nothing wrong with assuming that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist."

You didn't say you "assumed" you stated it as fact.

As for your last statement, once again I didn't state that having sex with a corpse would or wouldn't bring back the dead. You keep going on about Magic Donkeys, Santa Claus, sex with dead people and the "Boogeyman", I said nothing of any of this at all.

[Benfea]

83. It's like trying to dent a brick wall with ping-pong balls

Despite your attempts at word games I am not the one making the claim here, and however much you might wish it to be so, the burden of proof is not on me.

As for your last statement, once again I didn't state that having sex with a corpse would or wouldn't bring back the dead. You keep going on about Magic Donkeys, Santa Claus, sex with dead people and the "Boogeyman", I said nothing of any of this at all.

Oh, so you just assume that having sex with corpses won't bring them back to life? Prove it.</SNARKY>

[johnnie]

85. It's not working

Trying to force me to say I believe in this or that isn't going to work. You are the typical skeptic who uses the old "burden of proof" bullshit after making a statement in the first place and then can't back up their claim. There is no point in this, you can't stand by your initial statement with any cold hard facts to support it so you start twisting things around and trying to make me talk about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.

See ya.


On edit. You aren't even a skeptic. Most skeptics I know are skeptical but open to possibility. I am sorry if I pissed off any skeptics.

[Benfea]

87. So logic is "bullshit" now?

Interesting.

You can cry and waller all you want, but the burden of proof still remains on the ones making the claim. That would be those professing a belief in ghosts, bigfoot, alien abductions or whatever. You can twist words to your heart's content, but that still doesn't shift the burden of proof onto me, nor does it change the rules of logic.

You can get upset all you want about my bringing up those other things, but the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus have exactly as much proof behind them as your ghost stories. It is not my fault that your argument shares common ground with children's make-believe characters.

[johnnie]

89. One last time

You wrote "No, and neither has anyone else. Delusions notwithstanding." Did you not? My response was to ask you to prove this. According to your statement, you are saying that the people who claim they have seen spirits are lying or delusional.

All I asked you to do was to prove to me and everyone else here that have claimed to have seen something that they are liars or delusional. You have shown no proof just opinion and it means shit to me as to proving anything. I respect your opinions, but you didn't state that it was your opinion, you clearly stated that you know with 100% certainty that no has ever seen a spirit. Just because you say it is true, it doesn't mean it is. I'm not asking you to prove a negative, hell you can't even prove something you seem so positive of. Opinions don't prove anything.

Turning the original request of you showing facts of your statement around to the whole "logic" and "burden of proof" crap doesn't prove anything except you have nothing to stand on concerning your original statement of fact.

So one last time, prove to me that all these people on this thread are either liars or delusional. Thank you.

[Benfea]

98. You're still playing word games.

You're still trying to pass of staggeringly bad logic as valid arguments.

Your entire argument is based on a logical fallacy. You can scream and cry all you want, but that won't change your logical fallacy into a valid argument. No amount of tantrum-throwing or wordplay is going to shift the burden of proof to me.

People have been trying to prove the existence of ghost at least as far back as written human history and not one person has ever furnished the tiniest shred of proof. All that time and not one person has managed to prove a thing. Unless and until someone comes up with proof, I am going to go on assuming that ghosts don't exist, ergo, anyone who thinks they've seen a ghost hasn't.

[johnnie]

103. Ok

I'm not screaming and crying or throwing tantrums. But that is another typical reaction from people that can't back up what they are saying. Try to make someone look foolish instead of backing up their opinions as fact.
That is also the way people react when they are young and inexperienced, so I am assuming that I am debating with a younger person with no real skills of debate. So I will stop now.

[Benfea]

109. Cripes, you just don't give up, do you?

I'm not screaming and crying or throwing tantrums. But that is another typical reaction from people that can't back up what they are saying. Try to make someone look foolish instead of backing up their opinions as fact.

What part of "you can't prove a negative" are you not able to grasp? Your entire argument is centered around this idea that it is incumbent upon me to furnish proof of a negative.

That is also the way people react when they are young and inexperienced, so I am assuming that I am debating with a younger person with no real skills of debate. So I will stop now.

((((Self edit: this was too snarky even for me.))))
You have based your entire argument on a logical fallacy and you presume to lecture me on debating?

[johnnie]

110. Lol

That was just too easy. Take care.

[sendero]

127. He's not asking you ...

.. to "prove a negative". Perhaps you should understand what terms mean before you use them.

[Benfea]

139. I understand it just fine.

What part of "prove a negative" are you not understanding?

[Zhade]

124. Actually...as much as I hate to have to do this...you did make a claim.

You asserted that no one ever has - which is probably true, but because we haven't lived the life of every human that has come before us, we don't know for a fact.

However, there is no available conclusive evidence to support the contention that ghosts have been seen by humans (other than anecdotes, which don't count).

For the record, I don't believe in them, but I'm open to the evidence, if it ever materializes (get it? Oh, I'm so clever...).

[Zhade]

123. Is this a better statement?

"There is no available conclusive evidence that anyone has ever seen a ghost."

It's true (unless someone can direct me to such evidence, which would trigger a paradigm shift in how we view death and consequently religion), and it doesn't assert that no one has ever seen one, just that there is no evidence to support any claims of anyone having seen one.

Better, right? Still leaves it open as possibly having happened, but doesn't pretend that claims are the same thing as evidence. Fair statement, wouldn't you say?

[johnnie]

125. Much better

I can respect a healthy amount of skepticism, it's the people who boldly make a definitive statement because it goes against what they believe that is silly to me.

[Zhade]

129. Well, it was an unprovable statement.

I don't think it's even possible to prove that no one has ever seen a ghost.

That said, there's no real evidence anyone HAS, either. If there were, I'd devour it - the idea fascinates me!

[johnnie]

132. That was my point to start with

A lot of people on here are saying something such as "I don't really believe it, but who knows?" or something like that. I can totally respect that and understand that. That poster made a claim that was funny to me and I called them out on it, and you see what happened. Respect for other people's beliefs if they aren't hurting you is only proper in my opinion.

[Zhade]

136. It reminds me of a strong atheist - one who asserts gods don't exist.

I don't believe they exist, but that's because there's no verifiable objective evidence for them. I'm not saying it's been proven gods don't exist.

I dislike closed minds either way, but I also dislike the idea that just because science doesn't prove it, that somehow it exists. That's not necessarily accurate, either (it could be, but that alone isn't enough to decide).

We don't share beliefs, but as long as we can reasonably discuss the issue, that's a win-win in my book.

[Ravenseye]

73. Nobody is denying your experiences

If you say you experienced something, nobody here is going to call you an outright liar. Well some might, but I won't.

The thing is that people have been shown to be able to experience lots of weird things, all in their head. Most people in fact are capable of one level of self-delusion or another. The mind is a powerfull thing. Just think about any story of a whacked out LSD Trip you've heard. That's the brain doing that, sure the drug is causing it to occur, but you're still the one doing all the work.

That you experienced something, isn't the issue. The issue is that if someone were to say that they actually did meet Santa Claus once, that the simpler explanation for it would be that they had a delusion, either temporary or chronic, and not that Santa Claus exists, which no other evidence in a huge mountain of it points to.

[johnnie]

91. Yes, Benfea is

He or she is claiming that none of us who ever claimed to have seen a spirit has seen one and he or she knows this with 100% accuracy. Or if we aren't lying about our experience then we are all delusional.

[Ravenseye]

92. He's not denying your experiences

He's challenging your interpretation of them.

[johnnie]

94. He said..

As an answer to the question if anyone has ever seen a ghost? "No, and neither has anyone else." That isn't considered denying anyone has?

[Ravenseye]

97. Denying seeing a ghost, yes. Denying an experience, no.

[Zhade]

122. I think, as long as you don't pretend that your experiences...

...absolutely mean what you believe them to mean, and are thus irrefutably true, that's a reasonable course of action.

You may indeed have had such experiences. They may in fact not have been what you thought them to be. Being open to possibilities is good, I agree.

Just don't assert that those experiences mean _____ is true (not that you are in this post, it's just a general suggestion for everyone).

[johnnie]

126. Typically..

It is the skeptics that seem to get more rabid in these discussions than the people who have claimed to see something. As I said a few times here and I have always said, I have no need whatsoever to prove anything that I have experienced to anyone else. There is no point to try to do that. And if you read my posts on here (I am guessing you have) you'll agree I'm sure that I didn't try to prove I experienced anything. I just asked for proof of someone who claim no one ever did experience anything.

[Zhade]

130. Your stance is reasonable.

I have no problem with it.

I don't believe that your experiences mean ghosts exist, but I don't know - I didn't have them - so I'd just look for evidence, and allow you your experiences (I'd be a bit of a dick to call you a liar or delusional, even if you are).

I'm not against possibilities. Truth told, I've often reflected that consciousness may survive death in another dimension, and hence ghosts could exist, so I'd love to have it proven - it would be an astounding discovery, for science and humanity.

Anyway, cheers!

[johnnie]

134. .

:thumbsup:

[amitten]

75. There's no scientific proof when you love someone, either.

But you damn well know when it's happened, right? And you'd be pretty pissed if an outside party claimed you were just delusional, right?

The only people that don't believe in ghosts are the ones who haven't ever seen one. For those of us that have, and who have countless trusted friends that have, please keep your judgment of mass hallucination to yourself. It's more ridiculous than the idea of the supernatural, actually.

[Ravenseye]

80. Au Contraire

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3643822.stm

That's just first love. There have been a number of studies on love, showing physiological changes from when they first see someone, to long term health benefits, and more. Love has been scientifically proven to exist.

As far as being pissed if an outside party claimed you were delusional...well sure of course. That's part of understanding it though. I've had delusions, but I've been able to see that there was no way they could have happened. You can peg delusions to lots of things like stress or sleeplessness or other emotional trauma, but just because you have one doesn't make you crazy. It means your mind was confronted with something and it reacted. It's not a crime to have had a delusion. Is it wrong to have a mental illness? If you can be totally batshit crazy and it's ok, can't the mental equivallent of 'a little sniffle that goes away in a day' be ok as well?

[amitten]

81. Interesting that all these people, and under pretty normal

conditions, are all suffering from delusions that include things like people dressed in frontier clothing, etc. Highly unlikely. UFO's haven't been proven to exist either, but I know more people than I can count who have surely seen one. Myself included.

And no, love can't be proven to exist. Just some of the chemical responses that accompany it...big deal.

[Benfea]

88. So if more than one person has the same delusion, it must be true?

Your logic gets more fascinating the more you explain it.

As I pointed out before, a very large number of people once believed that having sex with the recently dead could bring them back to life. Since a large number of people believed that, by your logic, it must also true.

[amitten]

142. They didn't all claim to have SEEN it. That's the difference.

All the people posting are claiming to have SEEN ghosts. That's different than just believing in them. You're basically calling us all liars. I don't ever hallucinate. Why would I just one day start magically hallucinating people? I don't hallucinate any other sort of object or phenomena. But I have seen a ghost (person).

Your logic is far more fascinating than mine...the idea that millions of normal people worldwide are constantly hallucinating seeing other people. Whatever.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

151. Liar. You have a dragon in your garage, not a magic pony. -nt

[Mad_Dem_X]

60. How can you speak for anyone else?

Are you saying all these people are delusional? Just because you haven't had any experiences like that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Ravenseye]

66. I think the point is

that ghosts have never been scientifically proven to exist. It's not just his experiences, but the experieinces of people specifically trying to prove that ghosts exists who have been unable to do so.

[johnnie]

67. Science is not that advanced

Hell, they still can't figure out how the brain actually works. And the brain is right there inside everyone's head.

[Ariana Celeste]

69. Exactly....

we are still discovering new things everyday...

Think about String Theory for instance...


I am an Atheist, but I have seen things I can't explain... and I won't deny the possibility... there is nothing to prove it either way. And I certainly won't laugh at other people's experiences. :hi:

[Ravenseye]

70. Funny you should mention the brain

While they are still trying to understand the brain they've know it's ability to fool itself for centuries. Nearly everyone is victim to self-delusion at some point in their lives. That's been shown. They may not understand how the brain works, but they know the brain will delude itself to explain things it can't, or doesn't want to, otherwise understand. People's minds have even been shown to be capable of deluding them to the point where they practically live in a completely different world. Yet they've shown it's very easy for people to see what they want to see, forget what they want to forget, and remember things the way they want to remeber them, no matter what actually happened.

Ghosts on the other hand have no evidence whatsoever to prove their existance except for people's word. No photographic evidence, no video evdience, no solid evidence, nothing.

Science may not understand the brain, but it understands Occam's razor. What's more likely? That the poeple who have seen ghosts have a presumably genetic ability that others lack to comprehend things on a higher plane undetectable by any other scientific means....or that those people have minor delusions going on, either because it's their way of coming to grips with something, or drugs, or sleep deprivation, or they really wanted to see it, or anythign else. Delusions, proven to exist in nearly everyone, or some mystical ability? What's more likely?

[johnnie]

74. But "more likely" isn't scientific

There are people who claim to have seen the same "spirit" at the same time. Are these people actually hooked together by energy between their brain waves and experiencing twin delusions? Who knows? That could very well be.

But we are a long way away from knowing anything about it all. As for the majority of what they know about the brain and the way it functions, it is mostly theory. It wasn't that long ago that they thought women going through menopause were really just going crazy and they would lock them up in the insane asylum. It really wasn't to long ago.

I have experienced a lot of these types of things (spirits, ghosts or whatever one might call them) and I know a heck of a lot of people that have too. When I was growing up, my whole family did either alone or with others in the family. Sure that isn't "scientific" proof, but we know what we experienced and there is no need to have someone prove it for us.

There are many pictures, taped voices, videos and other types of "evidence" that has been presented, but there are just as many people trying to prove it wrong. So if someone has a picture with some type of mist on it, the skeptic would say "Oh, that is just smoke from a cigarette". The person would with the picture would say "no one was smoking" and the skeptic would say "Prove it". And that's how it goes.

My personal opinion is that man and science are still in its infancy. We like to think we have evolved into highly intelligent creatures, but we still beat each other over the head for shiny objects, we still can live together with people of different color, we still have people abusing their own little children. We are not advanced as we like to think we are and science is even less advanced than that.


As I stated up above, I think people need to open their minds a little more to possibilities and stop being told what they are allowed to think. Closed minds start wars, create prejudice, instill hatred and destroy what they don't understand.

[Ravenseye]

77. Mass Delusion isn't a mystery

It's been quite thoroughly studied.

As far as knowing many people who have experienced weird things, I don't doubt you. Studies also show that most people say things like that are either lying, or themselves deluded.

Photographic evidence these days is worthless, yet we've had years upon years of video with no incontrovertable evidence. For plenty of other things, people able to provide incontrovertable evidence. Yet for ghosts it hasn't happened. You may see something and want to believe, but that doesn't make it so, and neither does anyone's personal word. If someone tells you that there is heavier than air flight, you can call them a liar, or you can go witness it yourself along with millions of pages of supporting pieces of evidence.

I agree that man and science are in it's infancy, but I think that while the scientific method won't answer questions for us unless we know how to ask them, it can answer questions for those that we do. I'm not saying that scientific evidence for ghosts will never exist, i'm just saying it hasn't yet.

As far as 'more likely' being scientific...well it isn't, but if you have to answer a question the simpler answer generally is the correct one. What's more likely may not be scientific, but it generally will give you the right answer.

[johnnie]

82. Please then explain mass delusion to me

I'm not trying to be a prick, I just would like to know what "scientific" evidence is out there that proves beyond any doubt that people have been able to experience some sort of delusion at the same time and place without any drugs, alcohol lack of sleep or something like that. How could scientist prove what is in someone's mind? By what the subject tells them? According to skeptics, that is not proof.

Just because a person tells a psychiatrist that they hearing voices of people saying to kill their family, doesn't mean they are. The doctor has to assume there is a mental problem and treat it. It is just a theory, not scientific hard facts.

[Ravenseye]

90. Ok

There are plenty of cases of mass hallucination that have been examined. Just do some quick googling and you'll find tons of them dealing with mass hallucination questions over thousands of years.

As far as proving what's in someone's mind, they can't. In fact the standard definition of mass hallucination will state something like "where one person will see, or claim to see, something unusual" as part of it's definition. Whether or not they ACTUALLY see something has nothing to do with it. It has to do with suggestability and pareidolia (that inate human pattern recognition ability....look it's Jesus...in the wood grain on my door...Or is it a map of New Hampshire?)

Mass Hallucination is basically saying "hey look at that ghost", and regardless if that person actually saw or thought they saw a ghost, other people will look and because they are LOOKING for a ghost, and the human mind's ability to see things that really aren't there because they WANT to see things....poof. Ghost...that person says "hey a ghost" and so on. People can also redact their thoughts and look at a light or something for minutes and not know what it is, then have someone else say "is that a UFO?" and they'll then think they've been looking at a UFO the whole time.

Now, keep in mind, this is just when people are together. If I see a ghost here, and you see a ghost there and a week from now we're talking and I say "oh hey, I saw a ghost last week." and you say "no shit, me too." that is NOT Mass Hallucination. Mass Hallucination is only when people are together...like a group of 3 people who go into a house and see a ghost, or are out camping and see a UFO, or Bigfoot, or whatever.

Make sense?

As far as other things...there are lots of physical things, like low band noise, that can creep people out. That chill you feel? It could just be a subsonic noise from something. They use them in movies too. Stuff out of the range of normal human hearing that causes people to feel creeped out. Bassier than Bass.

The earth's electromagnetic field is also something that can cause weird shit to happen.

I'm not saying that someone seeing a ghost is necessarily having a mental delusion. There are other physical causes. The point is that the main cause is most likely delusion or pareidolia. Probably pareidolia. Particularly in situations which are otherwise creepy ("I went up to my grandparents attic and...") or indicate that the person is probably tired, maybe from travel ("We were staying at this bed and breakfast during our trip to Oklahoma...") or that it was dark and late ("I was my bedroom in the middle of the night when...") etc.

Delusion is far more common than people realize and Pareidolia is far more powerful. Combine the two with suggestion, a willingness to see stuff like that and you'll get lots of ghost sightings.

[johnnie]

93. You answered my question

Mass delusion is not *fact* it is theory.

Just for kicks, explain this to me. When I was younger I shared a room with my brother. We were each sitting in our bed and I saw him look over at something and I looked where he was looking. In the corner of the room was an old man that was sitting on a box we had there. When it disappeared we both looked at each other totally stunned by what we saw. We both seen an old man, sitting down, with longer hair. Out of curiosity, what would be a good scientific explanation for that?

We had many experiences in that house and now my niece and nephews have been having some of the same ones. There is much more that happened, but that was an incident that my brother and I saw the same thing at the same time.

[Ravenseye]

100. Gravity is a theory as well

I think you need to brush up on your science a bit.

As far as your experiences there could be many explanations. It might not even have happened originally, but you and your brother over years convinced yourself it did.

Look at this Karr character. He might actually believe that he killed the Ramsey girl. It happens. People think and talk about something over time and it changes, and their belief changes. It's not just limited to total crazies either. It's like the whole Republican obsession with the Fifties as if it were a golden age. They told themselves so many stories they actually believe them.

Maybe you saw something and your mind drew a picture. Maybe your brother lied at first about seeing it as well, but after years he believed and saw it too. Maybe an innocent comment from one of your nephews created drawing conversations where they wanted to feel close to you and either made things up, or believed it themselves.

It wouldn't be the first time. If you really believe it's real give your niece and nephews each a digital videocamera to use and film what they see. Prove they exist.

The fact is that I've heard numerous stories like yours, and never heard or seen a scrap of proof. It takes more than that. Maybe you're telling the truth and Ghost's exist. Then why can't it be proven? Why is there no indisputable evidence?

[johnnie]

102. I don't need to brush up on my science

As you said, a lot of it is theory. That isn't hard fact.

And with all due respect your reply to my experience with my brother is typical. People will believe things when they spend a shitload of money and go to a school where a professor will show them something in a book and being blinded by the fact that they think science and all the money they pissed away is worth something they believe it, but if a person tells a skeptic that they saw something, it is written off.

Science is not the end all to a lot of people. As I said, it is a tool, but it is far from perfect. I have no problem with people who don't believe something, but leave room for a possibility, it is the people who refuse to allow for that possibility that I find annoying. I mean, people can think what they want, but I like to keep my mind open to possibilities. And as anyone knows, a good scientist keeps their mind open to all possibilities. If they didn't and just relied on what the other scientists did in the past, there would be no advancements in the scientific world.

[Ravenseye]

106. I also don't know you

I've known people who told stories about ghosts before and after years of it, they admited they were lying the whole time.

As far as I know you're lying, though you'd never admit it if you were, at least not here.

Science is what it is. You can prove something or you can't. If you like to believe things to which there is no solid evidence, feel free. That's what's kept our planet in the dark ages for too long imho.

[johnnie]

107. And people who refuse to allow for possibilities...

Have done us even more harm.

Luckily there were people and are people who expand their mind and think beyond what was written in text books and went for it. To deny something because it isn't something that can be found in a book is silly imho. If you study the history of science you will find many mistakes and inaccuracies that have been disproved by people who decided to think on their own and not rely on what they are told to think.

[ForrestGump]

112. Dude. You nailed it

in every one of your answers above.

I'm a scientist, one who holds three f***ing advanced degrees up to PhD, and although I do not believe I now everything, even within my fields of study, I damn well paid the price of admission as far as critical thinking goes and no so-called 'skeptic' can meaningfully accuse me of being anything but a critical thinker. I have seen things I can't explain with my knowledge of science -- science, with or without the capital 's,' being a fairly pitiful collection of explanations for Stuff We Have Noticed that's hardly the be-all and end-all of explaining the universe.

And you are right -- you were right in the first place, when you said that the dweebs who deny that anything and everything is possible are the same people that Galileo went up against. Yes, he had empirical evidence to support his claims (but, really, so did the naysayers for their claims) but the idea came from him not as he pored over a series of refuted hypotheses about the nature of the universe but as an insight...the value of insight's all but removed, formally, from much of science these days and the result is a bunch of fossilized theoreticians who smugly think they know it all. Of course, a lot of times it's not some old fogey doing this (actually, that rarely seems the case) but some young buck who's full of himself (and it's usually a him, almost invariably) and who believes all that crap about the supposed objectivity of science, better living through chemistry, and whatever else becomes apparent as false fronts the longer you spend actually working in the realm of science. Zealots, fresh from the indoctrination factory.

Science is dynamic and, like history, it makes fundamental paradigm shifts now and then. It is not objective nor free from political shaping. Never has been. Science needs to be dynamic and unafraid to ask new questions (though the opposite is happening now, in some fields) but it is just a means through which we seek to explain our universe -- arguably more grounded in objective reality than various mythologies but, at heart, itself a kind of mythology -- and as such it is an imperfect, and certainly, incomplete tool. In most things in life, anyone who says that something is impossible is, by definition, not only not open-minded but is wrong. Science, no matter how fully it evolves, will just never explain some things. And there are some things we undoubtedly shouldn't try to explain scientifically.

A little while ago, I wrote a little rant about these self-styled 'skeptics' that run around these days:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=5526857

What you said more succinctly is basically the same thing. :headbang:

[johnnie]

116. I'm sorry I missed your other post

That was a great read and right on the mark as to what I was trying to point out. I don't have the master of language as you do..lol. Hell, I barley made it through high school.

You hit the nail on the head in both of your posts. I embrace both science and skepticism, without one you wouldn't have the other. I just don't think that standing up and saying that something isn't real because a scientist hasn't shown us any proof is very narrow-minded. If people want to be narrow-minded that's their gig, but they don't have to be so arrogant about their narrow-mindedness.

I just questioned the statement at first because the poster seemed so sure of his or her stand on the subject. As you can see, I never got the facts as to how the poster knew for sure what they were saying. I wish you were around a bit earlier. :headbang:

[ForrestGump]

118. You didn't need me around

You handled it with enviably poise and you even made sense, no matter that you apparently wouldn't recognize logic if it kicked you in the bootay... :D

Funny how those who pride themselves on being logicians, or whatever the word is, often make the least rational cases for their points. The universe is, indeed, a strange place.

I agree with you 100%...narrowminded is not skeptical, it's just narrowminded. To hell with the Blue Meanies! :yourock:

[hedgehog]

99. Why would you expect to find evidence of a ghost within the

visible electromagnetic spectrum or any range of the EM spectrum at all? By definition, the ghost must be an aspect of another world, another dimension or another universe, whatever you might want to call it. Saying that no one has photographed a ghost and therefore they don't exist is akin to saying that we have no photographs of Spartacus, and therefore he didn't exist. All we have is the testimony of eye witnesses.

[johnnie]

104. Hey, that's a goods point

Unfortunatly, it isn't scientific, so Spartacus did not exist.

[hedgehog]

117. It just so happens....

I'M SPARTACUS!

[datasuspect]

149. science DOES understand the brain

and it is rather simplistic.

but that scientific knowledge deflates all the magical/mystical notions people want to infuse it with.

it is a lot less romantic to say "electrochemical firing between synapses" (i know not very scientific) or "D2 receptor agonist" than imputing magical properties like the soul or something like that.

the mystification of a thing makes it seem grander than what it is. i think people resent the magic being taken away and having their ignorance (i.e., lack of knowledge) exposed.

[johnnie]

150. They understand basic functions of the brain

That is basic science we learned as children in school. I am meaning that they don't understand what motivates the brain to think at different levels and conceptualize ideas basically out of thin air. They are continuously discovering new information about the working of the brain and they continue to study it. If they understood it, they would have stopped by now.

Of course I guess that one could say that there is a difference between the brain and the mind, but they work together and one needs the other so I am looking at them in that way.

[datasuspect]

148. electrochemical communication between synapses?

just saying. and i'm not trying to fuck with you, but science has tremendous insight on brain function.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

160. Agreed.

Delusions are fun though.

Fiction too.

[mvd]

38. Nope

My grandfather just died two months ago; have not seen him or even dreamed about him much. He always swore there were no ghosts, so even if he could, I don't think he'd come back. My aunt says though that in a dream, he told her he was ok.

I've been to some haunted places (like Williamsburg and Jamestown VA,) but saw nothing there, either.

Do I believe in ghosts? There's something out there, but maybe it can be explained by science. I do believe in an afterlife, so ghosts are a possibility.

[qnr]

44. self-delete, replied to wrong post n/t

of that nature. Granted, I'm being a PITA, but I did wait until you'd received plenty of "serious" answers.

[qnr]

46. Yes, but only in the sense of television ghosts (dupe signals) and things

of that nature. Granted, I'm being a PITA, but I did wait until you'd received plenty of "serious" answers.

[koneko]

48. I've had countless encounters

so I'll share some of the more memorable ones -

On my 30th birthday, I threw a bridal shower for my best friend at my mom's house. After the shower, her fiance came over, we ordered Chinese food & sat on the screened-in porch. Right about the time that I sensed a presence, my best friend gasped and said, "I'm not sure if I should tell you this or not, but your dad just appeared behind you on the lawn." My father had passed away when I was 5 years old. I've never seen his ghost, but I have often sensed his presence at my mom's house. I think he'd appeared to wish me a happy birthday.

The last place I lived in had three spirits that I encountered - a white long-haired cat, a man who would walk from the top of the basement stairs, through the living room, and up the staircase to the second floor, and one that I THANKFULLY only encountered once. I woke up and saw a tall person in a barn jacket standing, watching me, from my open closet door. My room wasn't too dark as it was about 8 am, and it looked somewhat like a friend of mine, so I asked what they were doing in my closet, but got no response. I shook the cobwebs out of my sleep-addled brain, and asked "What are you doing standing in my closet?" No response. As I woke up more, the confusion left me and was replaced with an immense sense of dread, and as the apparition stood motionless, I got the feeling it was rushing me, and without even thinking, I SHRIEKED, "Get out of my room!!!!!!!!!!!" The feeling, and the spirit, evaporated. My roommate ran up from downstairs, and after I told the tale, she told me that my cat was downstairs, freaking out at the stairwell for a minute or so before I shrieked. She chalked it up to my stairway spirit. But there is no way it was the same presence. And of all the encounters I've had, that was the only one where I felt in danger.

[hyphenate]

50. Well, I've sensed them

and heard them, but never actually seen one.

I worked in a nursing home when I got out of school, and it being the last stop for many people, you see death more than the general population. There was this one time when this patient, her first name was Ruby, passed away on my shift. She'd always been a favorite patient of mine, and I felt sad that she was gone.

Well, her body was moved to the morgue, and I was sitting at the nurse's station later that night when I heard noises coming from her room. I went down, and there was no one there, nothing to indicate where the noise had come from. It happened twice that night, so I figure it was Ruby saying goodbye.

Another time, at home, we had just moved, and I was in my new bedroom when I heard a noise in the ccorner. For some reason, I knew it was Johnny, my cat who had been killed at the last place we'd lived. It happened a couple of times and then eventually just went away.

I've been in houses where there is a certain "something" that is hard to define, except to say that there are many stories in the house, including deaths. It is never menacing, though, just something that "is," even if it's hard to explain.

[MorningGlow]

57. I know what you mean, Hyphenate

They just "are". My friends who know I've come in contact with ghosts ask me how I could live in a place where there was a ghost, and stay there alone when DH was traveling, without being terrified all the time (especially the large passel in our first house).

And I don't have an answer, except that these entities aren't menacing. They're just there, like a noisy neighbor on the other side of an apartment wall.

Then again, none of the entities I've encountered have been menacing (I read somewhere you are in death as you are in life, so nice people are nice ghosts and vice versa). I don't know what I'd do if I ended up living with a meanie, but as a sensitive, I doubt I'd be able to tolerate it for long--I remember taking a tour of an historic hotel in southern California when I was a teenager, and there was one small (no longer used) barroom I couldn't go in--I felt like I couldn't breathe in that room. I ran out into the hallway and stayed there till the rest of the tour came out again. There was something in that room, no doubt about it.

[1gobluedem]

52. I've never seen one but I've felt a presence

Or a need. When my best childhood friend was kidnapped off the side of the freeway without a trace (and not a trace to this day, 16 years later), I could feel her begging me to help her (and how I wished I had been able to). I often still feel her presence.

The person who lived in the other half of my duplex died there after living there 30 years. I'll often hear noises from there when my neighbor is gone and I know it's Ralph back to visit.

My mother said she could always feel the presence of her great grandmother in the kitchen -- until my parents got their latest stove which has a glass cooktop. My mother claims GG didn't like it and hasn't been back since.

[nini]

53. Not seen, but felt and heard

amazing sensation.

:-)

[MiniMandaRuth]

56. Yes.

And I'd rather not go into details.

[GalleryGod]

62. Too many times.

for comfort:wow:

[amitten]

76. Well, now you HAVE to go into details!!!

At least a hint?

[MiniMandaRuth]

162. House is haunted with bitter soldier ghosts.

And bitter Native American ghosts. They are not very friendly.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

58. I went to a Stones concert once.

I know, they're more like zombies. But it's pretty close.

[noonwitch]

61. I've never seen one, but I lived in a house I think was haunted

Every day, I would take a shower. When I stepped out, a large Q was written in the steam in the mirror. I took the mirror down, looked for a warp or a mark in the wood or the glass and couldn't find anything.

I would hear weird noises at night, and my dog would bark at vacant space.

Maybe it was nothing, maybe it was something. Maybe because I was depressed and having a rough time, my mind was playing tricks on me. I don't know. I've never had any experiences like that since.

[Deep13]

63. Yeah, Inky, Blinky, Pinky and Clyde. nt

[NewWaveChick1981]

64. Not actually seen one, but...

...I was in a supposedly haunted house back around 1981. Lots of legends surrounded that house. It belonged to a guy my boyfriend knew. He was giving us a tour of the house, and I stayed back in one of the rooms looking at the antiques while they went to the room next door. I went to one corner in particular that had a cold spot (no central AC in the house, and it was summer with no window unit AC), and when I moved away from the cold spot, something tapped my left shoulder. :yoiks: I looked to see if someone was playing a joke on me, but nobody else was there. I high-tailed it to the next room and told them what happened. I wasn't really scared, just kind of stunned. The guy just laughed and said, "Yeah, that happens." I'm not afraid of ghosts or spectres or anything like that, but I don't go out hunting them either.

[Left Is Write]

68. Ghost? I don't know. Shadow people? I think so. Maybe.

I'm not sure.

How's that for vague?

[driver8]

86. Regarding "Shadow People"...

When I was in high school, my cousins and I were all staying at my grandmother's house. My cousin and her friend decided that they were going to sleep in a tent in the backyard.

The next morning, we were sitting at the table having breakfast and my cousin and her friend came into the kitchen. My cousin said, "I had the strangest dream last night. I dreamt that there was a large, dark figure hovering over me while I slept -- it was kind of creepy."

My cousin's friend's face went white as a sheet. She said, "I had the same dream."

True story.

[Blue Diadem]

78. Yes

RIP Mr. Michel.

He stopped coming around after his son(a frail elderly man) came by to
visit the childhood home. Before that, he had appeared twice and I'd know when he was around by a distinct odor. Amusing, the odor only appeared at holidays..I used to joke that we needed to set him a place at the dinner table.

My elderly neighbor confirmed that it was indeed the original owner of the home, right down to the favorite shirt he used to wear.

[Zhade]

84. I don't really know what the deal is...

...but the funny thing is that IIRC there's more evidence for ghosts (some) than there is for gods (none), yet way more seem to believe in gods!

Weird.

Anyway, no, I haven't. I imagine very few have, if indeed they exist.

[Fox Mulder]

95. Not yet...but I want to really bad.

[Broken_Hero]

96. nope...not yet. nt

[hedgehog]

101. My husband was raised as a rational German Protestant, yet

once he was driving home and saw a woman and two children walking along the road on the way to a costume party. He thought it was odd since it was snowing pretty heavy at the time. Some months later he was reading the newspaper and was stunned to realize he'd seen the Seneca Hill ghosts of a family that had been lost in a blizzard many years ago. Up until then I think he took my Irish Catholic mysticism as an odd cultural quirk.

I've seen and spoken with the ghost of a cousin and we were able to settle some unfinished business.

My grandfather always heard the banshee and knew when someone had died. My mother and sister have both been visited by relatives on the way out hours after their actual deaths. My daughter talked to ghosts who turned out to be relatives of her room mate.

[LaurenG]

111. Yep and a friend of mine snapped this picture of something

The ghost my husband and I had in our apartment just turned the lights on and off. He was a dead hell's angel, we think.


:o

[QuestionAll...]

113. does the Ghost of Fitzmas Past count?

anyway... not actually 'seen' anything, but feel there's some oddities about that could fit.

[StellaBlue]

114. No, and neither have you.

:P

[texas1928]

115. Yep, and I have stories that nonbelievers can not prove.

I am having to deal with a ghost here at work. He came back the other day.

[Neshanic]

119. Yes, and I think cats can see them all the time.

[Zhade]

120. Here's a more productive idea...

...than self-aggrandizing unproven silliness about "level of spiritual growth" and whatnot - why is it that evidence is so hard to obtain?

Photos can be faked, or accidentally fake (think double exposure with film). "Sightings" can, in fact, be hallucinations, delusion, imagination, etc.

So what would be (or is?) a foolproof way to document the existence of ghosts, if they exist?

[johnnie]

128. Honestly, i don't think there could ever be any proof

Not to the people who refuse to believe in spirits or ghosts or whatever. Sightings of spirits and the study of them have been around for centuries, but it is still not accepted.

There have been "scientists" who have studied the spirit world and have come up with some very good information. But because it has to do with this subject, they are considered quacks. People need videos, pictures and recordings to believe in something they don't understand, but even when that is presented to them, they think of 20 different things that could have been a possibility. And that is fine, it is just the way some people are and I don't think it will ever change.

[Zhade]

133. What about those like me?

I don't believe they exist (which, like my atheism, is NOT my saying they don't exist - there's a difference), but I'm open to evidence that shows they exist.

If evidence can be proven to be something other than the claimed paranormal experience, it's not really evidence.

[johnnie]

137. Well, you are open minded to it

I know a lot of people who don't think they exist and a lot of them are Christians. Hey, that's cool, but they don't shut their mind off to the possibility.

Hell, maybe I am a whacked out nutcase who is delusional and needs treatment, but then again, maybe I'm not. :)

[Phoonzang]

131. Seems to me that there really is no foolproof way of

documenting the evidence of ghosts. If photo and videos can't be used as evidence because they're easily faked what else do you have? Random Speculation: Why would ghost even show up on video and in photos anyway? If they're some kind of "psychic impression" on the environment, wouldn't they only be detectable by the human brain?

Anyway, some "ghost hunters" go around with electromagnetic detection devices to prove the presense of a ghost. That may work for some, but it probably won't be seen as evidence by a mainstream scientists. What else do we have?

It seems like the only thing that will prove it is for a person to see it, or a bunch of individuals to see the same thing. But that doesn't count as a controlled, reproduceable experiment.

I don't know, the only other thing I can think of is some physical effect on the environment that can't be caused by a mundane natural force.

[johnnie]

138. One sure way...

When we each kick the bucket, if we die and everything goes black and your thinking shuts off, then chances are there are no ghosts. If you die and are still around, then...

[ScreamingMeemie]

141. Threads can be hidden...

[Zhade]

158. I never use that feature. Seems childish.

Besides, as you can see, I enjoy discussion like this.

[Fuzz]

135. Johnny Winter count?

[Common Sense Party]

143. I never have. I'm agnostic on the issue.

I'm skeptical by nature, but when I hear the EVP recordings of so-called "ghost hunters," I am at a loss to explain it away.

Some of these are interesting, some funny, and some downright creepy:

http://www.ghostwave.com/Ughs2.html

[bertha katzenengel]

144. Yes - on the Queen Mary.

It is haunted and I saw the ghost of the crew member who was killed by a watertight door. :creepy:

[texanwitch]

145. I lived in a haunted house in Austin years ago.

I never believed in ghosts until then, we had some active ghosts.

Only saw one ghost, a woman. She would appear about twice a month.

Our ghosts made noise, they would make lots noise in the kitchen.

We lived with them.

[lildreamer316]

146. THE ULTIMATE GHOST STORY THREAD:

I started compiling these last year. Have fun!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=4228316

[raccoon]

147. Thanks for all those links! nt

[bikebloke]

152. Maybe

I was running orienteering during a night meet. The controls had little flashlights in them, so they could be found. I was approaching one in an old family cemetary in the woods, when I saw a light and went towards it. Then I looked around, seeing the control light over in the other direction. The first light then was gone. Some dead farmer must have been funnin' with me.

When my grandmother was in the hospital dying, my father was in the room with her, then came out freaked out. He had seen his sister, who had died a few years earlier, with my grandmother.

[InvisibleTouch]

153. Not sure, actually.

I've dreamed several times about a deceased friend who came back for a visit, and we had a very normal conversation, including a discussion of his (apparent) suicide - but I have no way of knowing whether that was a true "visit" or simply a dream. I've had a few other experiences where I also have to say, "Sure, it felt real, but honestly it could also have just been a dream, and I can't make a definite claim one way or the other." So the possibilities remain open for me.

Personally, I know the mind can delude itself more easily than people want to believe, and a lot of "religious experiences," etc., are self-generated. Oh, they feel real when you're experiencing them, but the mind is a powerful thing.

On the other hand, I'm also convinced that there are things science will never be able to explain with its current mindset ("The Universe is not only stranger than we know, it's stranger than we can know"), and I'm not willing to pass off every reported experience of the paranormal as a person's self-delusion, intentional or otherwise. Science is like a laser beam - intensely focused and effective in a very narrow range - but it often misses the entire surrounding spectrum. (I say this as a woman with a scientific background and 3 college degrees, btw.)

And I've long felt that a lot of the "ghost sightings" that people report, where for instance the same figure is seen in the same place by many different people at different times, are not in fact the spirit of a dead person, but an energetic imprint that has "gotten stuck," if you will - a burst of intense emotion that imprinted itself into that place. It's no accident that a lot of ghost sightings concern people who either died a violent death, or were intensely unhappy or had a traumatic experience when they lived in the location where their afterimage remains. The actual "soul" of the person, if such a thing exists, is long gone. To where? I'm certainly not qualified to answer that.

My conclusion: there's "something out there," surely, but a lot of the experiences we hear about, are not what people think they are. Subjective experience isn't always the best criteria for making a claim to truth - but a pure "skeptic" interpretation misses a lot of possibilities, also, and a lot of the skeptics seem to like to "debunk" simply on reflex, rather than honestly considering the possibilities that something may exist beyond their awareness.

Just for what it's worth.

[raccoon]

156. That's certainly an interesting theory.

"And I've long felt that a lot of the "ghost sightings" that people report, where for instance the same figure is seen in the same place by many different people at different times, are not in fact the spirit of a dead person, but an energetic imprint that has "gotten stuck," if you will - a burst of intense emotion that imprinted itself into that place. "

For the record, I've never seen a ghost. I have been wishing lately that I could see the ghost of someone close to me who died a few years ago.

I've always thought, and still do, that I don't think I could live in a house where a mass murder had been committed. I think it would just creep me out.

[CBHagman]

155. I have not.

However, I have known a number of people who claim to have been haunted -- i.e., hearing footsteps at the same time each night in an empty apartment or house, feeling someone sit down on the bed when there's no one there, seeing mysterious figures, etc. What surprises me most is that generally the people who have reported these things are practical, unsentimental types and not at all the stereotype of someone who sees spirit figures. So who knows? :shrug:

[NNadir]

159. It depends on what you mean. My country is a ghost.

If you mean a supernatural being, well, no.