What would you do in this situation?

[bluestateguy]

Sometimes my mother tells me about some of the gossip from her workplace. Usually it's boring, but this one was especially interesting.

My mother works with a younger woman who discovered some shocking news about her husband this week. He had a vasectomy years ago without telling her. He never wanted to have kids, and she did. They argued about it for a couple of years. She won the argument, or so she thought she did, and they proceeded to try for the last few years to have children, but obviously they were not successfull. Somehow, I don't know how, she found out that her husband had a secret vasectomy six years ago. She told my mother, I guess because she wanted to confide in an older woman (my mother is one of the older women in the office). This woman is 36, so she's running out of time.

[Guava Jelly]

1. Adopt a kid

Take care of the ones we got here.
DNA don't make a parent

[miss_american_pie]

2. He's been lying for six years?

I'd be seeing him in court.

[lizziegrace]

6. I agree!

:mad:

[gardenista]

32. Mental cruelty

[LeftyMom]

3. That's grounds for divorce

Every bit as shitty a thing to do as the women who have a baby to trap a man. The fucked thing is that at her age the chances of finding somebody better in time to start a family aren't that good. :( Poor lady.

[ContraBass Black]

The chances aren't good at 36?

I'd better get moving. :scared:

[LeftyMom]

5. Well it's not real easy to have a baby after 40 a lot of women

(my maternal grandmother had her last cycle at 38) at least without dealing with clomid and IUI and god knows what else. Four years to find somebody and get settled down enough to reproduce isn't a long time.

I mean, obviously if she's willing to be a single mom that opens up more options, or if this jerk repents they can go make a withdrawl at the sperm bank, but it's a nasty situation.

[gardenista]

33. Do, if you want a child.

I wish i had.

[jobycom]

12. I'll quibble on one point

The chances of finding someone better than THAT are really good.

[LeftyMom]

19. True

I mostly meant the chances of finding a better relationship in time to start a family.

[Lars39]

4. Something that serious is a *huge* breach of trust.

I would get counseling if I felt the marriage was worth saving.

[Pithlet]

7. What a terrible thing to do.

That would be grounds for a divorce, I would think. That was cruel.

[XemaSab]

8. Why didn't he want kids?

And it sounds like she sort of argued him into "agreeing" to have kids when he didn't want them. How is that okay?

(Just trying to see his side of things)

[Pithlet]

9. He didn't have to agree.

It's a perfectly acceptable thing to discuss for a couple. When the subject first came up, he should have mentioned the vasectomy then, and then there would have been no arguing him into agreeing to anything in the first place. If it's true, then what he did was emotionally abusive at the least. I would think, though, that they would have sought some medical help, and she would have found out about it then. It's a strange story.

[pitohui]

16. yeah it isn't really an area where compromise is possible

if one of the spouses doesn't want kids, then they shouldn't be having kids, it is better the child wanting spouse have a minor disappointment in life than a child be born into a family where the very existence of the child is hated and resented every day by one of its parents

the wife has two options -- accept this marriage w.out kids or get a divorce -- as she has seen, the third way of "nagging" is not going to work

people who don't want kids are usually VERY highly motivated compared to people who do want kids and are just going along w. societal/biological default

the people who suggest the couple adopt are just being silly, if the man doesn't want his own child, why is he going to want to raise someone else's child?

[XemaSab]

20. If he is ethically opposed to bringing more children into the world

Than adoption might be acceptable. :shrug:

[pitohui]

38. i suppose so

but i wouldn't hold my breath that it's an ethical concern

[skygazer]

10. Shows the importance of having compatible goals

People think marriage is all about love - it's about that but what actually makes a marriage work is having a clear idea what your long term goals and desires are and deciding which ones are negotiable and which ones aren't. It makes no sense for someone who doesn't want kids to marry someone who does and vice versa. That's a pretty fundamental goal. It's a mistake to think that you'll change your spouses mind down the road a bit.

Sad situation - I'd suggest marriage counseling.

[seaglass]

11. When a woman is trying for a couple years to get pregnant

and is disappointed every time she gets her period and her husband doesn't tell her why she's not getting pregnant - that is just despicable. I don't think I could love a man that did that to me. He was a coward and was dishonest.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Were they married before or after he got the vasectomy

If he got the vasectomy before they were married, that would technically be grounds for annulment in most states.

[mdmc]

14. Are you thinkin of putting the moves on her?

?

[Guava Jelly]

15. She shouldn't let her hubby know she knows

then get pregnant by a person of opposite color.
They watch his face when He see his kid for the first time

[mdmc]

23. ha ha

that would be good!

[jobycom]

17. Sounds bad. Wonder if he has a different perspective, or

if he's as much a lying, manipulative doo doo head as he sounds.

I hope your mother told this woman that she is perfectly justified in feeling hurt and betrayed. I know I stayed with a spouse I should have left a decade earlier. I was recently for the first time confiding some of what I went through to a friend, and she was stunned I had stayed so long. Part of the reason I stayed was because I felt like I was supposed to, like I didn't really feel like I was allowed to leave. People around me kept telling me I should try to work it out, seek councelling, and all that. Your mother's friend needs someone unabashedly on her side, and needs to know that no matter what she may have done, what he did was just plain despicable.

Then again, I'm not really an omniscient diety, I just play one on DU! :)

[Flaxbee]

18. wow. that's a betrayal, I wonder if she thinks she can

ever trust him again. She needs to figure that out first, then decide what to do about children. Perhaps adoption is a good alternative - why do so many women (I'm a woman) feel driven to have their own kids? Why not adopt? What's so important about passing along your own genes? I'm asking purely out of curiosity, never having had an overwhelming baby urge myself. My heart sometimes says yes, but my mind immediately interjects with all the problems the world is having (not the least of which is overpopulation), etc. etc... and that pretty much shuts down baby yearning for a good long time.

[politicat]

22. Usually pressure from her community to have them.

I'm really lucky in that I live in a place where having or not is no big deal, but if I'd been more of the normal type, I'd probably feel a lot more pressure.

[politicat]

21. It's his body. He gets to have the choice, too.

My husband had a vasectomy almost seven years ago now, and at the time, we were ambivalent about children, but he was determined that his genes needed to stop with him. So we agreed that if we changed our minds, we'd find a donor among our friends and acquaintance to either do the deed or wank away (as he saw fit.)

We've decided since that kids are a not in this lifetime thing, but it his body and his choice. DH gets to make the decisions about his body.

If he had had it secretly, I would be hurt that he didn't feel he could tell me what his needs were, but just as he can't force me to have a child I don't want, I can't force him to make a child he doesn't want.

It sounds like the case above is a case where she refused to listen to his needs and desires, and since he was forced into the corner of either betraying his wife's trust or bringing an unwanted child into the world, he chose the lesser of two evils.

I'd be doing the same (pills, tubal) if my husband had done so to me.

Sounds like they have communication issues above and beyond the norm, though, and I must say I'm really glad there are no kids to be affected by it.

[JVS]

26. yup

[huskerlaw]

28. I agree...to a point.

He does have the right to have a vasectomy without her consent. That is absolutely true.

However, he lied to her about it. That's the part that would be unforgivable to me. He made her believe that he wanted to have kids with her, they tried for years...and obviously failed. Each time they failed, he lied to her again. Each and every time he said anything like, "it's ok honey, we'll try again next month" he was bold-face lying to her.

Of course the same would go for a woman who had an abortion without telling her husband or was secretly taking birth control pills so that she wouldn't get pregnant. Absolutely within her rights, but lying about it is pretty disgusting. Even worse if she's told him that she wants to have kids.

[politicat]

29. I agree, the breach of trust is the problem.

But I can see the rationalization going on, too. (Of course, we don't know that he was saying, "Oh, honey, we can try again next month." and we don't know if he actually agreed that he would actively try to have a child with her; all we know is what the wife told the OP's mother who told the OP who told us. There's a ton of room for deviation from the actual events in there.)

I can see how the scenario might have played out -- The missus refuses to hear what the mister is telling her, that he doesn't want to be a father at all, and he can't get her to listen. So he stops arguing, has the procedure, and just stops talking about it. Missus figured she "won" because he stopped arguing (I have seen this - my mister's ex-missus pulled this ploy on a regular basis, to the point where my mister just stopped arguing, too), and probably just stopped talking about it.

Honestly, though, she's at least partly to blame here - I saw my mister's incisions and I can still see the scars if I look for them. They didn't really get unobtrusive until well into the third year, so how she managed to not see them is beyond me unless she is one of those women who refuse to get interested in his equipment. The only way that my mister could have any sort of operation and me not know about it would be for me to not know his body really well.

And yes, as for the breach of trust -- that's the big issue. Not the physical one. She broke his trust by refusing to hear that he didn't want a child, and he broke hers by failing to consult her in a decision that should have included them both. But since she was trying to include him in a decision that would have included them both (and a third person!) without acknowledging his wishes, they're both to blame here and yeah, divorce is probably a good idea. Because obviously they don't communicate well.

[Nickster]

37. I agree. It's about the trust. n/t

[txwhitedove]

24. And, if he deceived her about the vasectomy, what else...???

[JVS]

25. If she can have abortions without telling him, why shouldn't he be able...

to have a vasectomy without telling her?

[StellaBlue]

30. False comparison

If she was routinely getting abortions while watching him suffer at the monthly disappointment that she wasn't pregnant, that would be comparable.

[gardenista]

34. You've got to be kidding.

How old are you?

[Sequoia]

27. Divorce the rat and hook up with a younger man

Nonstop lovin' till she's pregnant.

[gardenista]

31. Divorce.

Not because he doesn't want kids, but because he's so emotionally out of touch that he thinks it's ok to lie about that, and put her through the agony of thinking that she's infertile while he knew the whole time.

[Strawman]

35. That's too messed up. Divorce.

He deceived her about trying to conceive for two whole years instead of telling the truth about not wanting kids? That's incredibly cruel.

[auntAgonist]

36. Horrible betrayal. How could she ever trust him again?

I don't know what I'd do. It's easy to say 'divorce the scum' or 'see him in court' ... I honestly don't know.

aA

[RFKHumphreyObama]

39. I think it's inappropriate for him to have done that at the very least

It's a fundamental breach of trust in the relationship. He had the vasectomy and then spent the next few years lying to her and giving false hope that she may have her wish of getting pregnant and having a child. He has now given her years of false hope and now she has the additional stress of the fallout from the whole saga. I think he's a creep and I certainly think he's been mentally cruel to her.

In response to what some other posters have said, yes, it's his body and he does have the right to a vasectomy if he wants to. What he doesn't have the right to do is to lie to his wife about it and put her through years of mental cruelty, false hope and torment because he can have the guts to be honest with her.