Battlestar Galactica season finale tonight!

[Benfea]

Woo!

Anyone else pumped? I have a feeling the "do we settle here?" matter will not be resolved by the end of the show, but I do want to find out what happens to Kara and the refugees (…which would be a great name for a rock band ).

I also want to see more of Caprica Six and Caprica Sharon. I wanna see how far they'll go in rebelling against their own people. Plus, the Gaius riding in Caprica Six's head is a lot less annoying than the Gaius on Galactica.

[ContraBass Black]

1. Oh yeah.

If I said everything I wanted to, you wouln't be able to finish reading it before the show.

[Benfea]

2. I got time.

Although, it'll be a while before I can properly respond. I'm planning a little tabula rasa party on my hard drive tonight.

[ContraBass Black]

6. One piece at a time, because I'm busy.

Good God, what if Baltar wins the election?

[Benfea]

19. He probably will.

After all, it would create more tension for all the characters involved.

Let's not forget, when we met Baltar in the original series, he had already betrayed the human race and taken the reins of the Cylon Empire. We still have some betraying to see before he ends up on the big chair.

[ContraBass Black]

17. Not long ago, Baltar's campaign manager was a terrorist.

Deoesn't anybody remember that?

[Benfea]

18. What on Earth makes you think he's stopped being a terrorist?

Now he's in a position to do real damage.

[CatholicEdHead]

21. By what definition of "terrorist" really works?

Yes, he was radically "left" when his backstory was introduced. It seemed to imply a Symbaniese(sp) Liberation Army-style terrorist, but "terrorist" could be used as just one who bucked the status quo.

[Benfea]

23. Terrorism = instilling fear in a public to influence politics.

Isn't he mucking around with the pro-Cylon nutjobs? If they don't commit a serious act of terrorism against the fleet, I'll be very much disappointed. The story is certainly set up to expect such a thing.

[NewJeffCT]

3. don't forget, it's 90 minutes tonight

so, make sure your Tivo or VCR is correct.

[ContraBass Black]

5. Will the second showing time change?

[NewJeffCT]

7. yes

1:30 AM EST.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

4. I can't wait....

The only thing that sucks is that you know that there's going to one helluva cliffhanger at the end and we'll have to wait until Oct. for the new season.

I agree about C6 and CBoomer. I'm interested to see what kind of monkeywrench they can throw into things. Also, don't forget about Pegasus6 who now has a nuke (Howz that gonna play out?).

[ContraBass Black]

9. They're going to make it excruciating.

And then laugh at our tortured screams.

[CatholicEdHead]

11. Good part about October

is not giving up any summer in front of the TV. I will be watching my DVDs of the miniseries, Season 1, Season 2.0 and soon to get Season 2.5 DVDs.

Edit: The podcast is now up. I will be waiting for obvious reasons to listen to it.

[crispini]

8. Ok, someone tell me what happened last week.

I missed it.

[ContraBass Black]

10. Here you go

http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/lay-down-yo...

[crispini]

12. Awfully short summary!

But holy frack!

Now, if I buy the episode on iTunes, what format is that? Can I just watch it on my computer if I can figure out where iTunes puts the file? I don't have a video iPod.

Maybe I'll just read the summary on TWOP.

[ContraBass Black]

13. I don't know

Sorry, the real information is in the reviews. I'll see if I can find you something better.

[crispini]

14. 'Scool, I got it

www.televisionwithoutpity.com

[ralps]

16. Yes you can play it on your computer as long as you have the latest

version of Quicktime. I've been watching the episodes on my computer.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. I'm looking forward to it and sad at the same time...

They have really pumped the hype on this oone!

[Benfea]

22. I haven't seen a single ad for tonight's episode.

Of course, that's because I don't watch much TV. I'm pumped all the same.

[ContraBass Black]

24. It's almost time.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. Got the VCR set

[crispini]

25. YEAH.

three two one!

[CatholicEdHead]

26. And we are off.....

[CatholicEdHead]

27. Did I just see the Rising Star explode in the preview?

[ContraBass Black]

31. I thought it was Cloud 9

[crispini]

28. Ok, this rock outcropping?

Totally fake.

[ContraBass Black]

33. Ready-made fortress.

[crispini]

29. Dude! Dean Stockwell's a cylon!

Badass!

[CatholicEdHead]

30. There were hints of this in last week's thread

They sure are casting mostly big stars for the Cylon roles. They are not casting nobodys.

[ContraBass Black]

32. "Maybe I know you're not a cylon...

...because I haven't seen you at the meetings."

[crispini]

36. Best. Line. Ever.

[ContraBass Black]

39. Sharon (to distinguish her from Boomer/Caprica 8) is in trouble.

I couldn't believe it when Starbuck handed her a gun. The rescue crew got completely comfortable with her.

There's something wierdly appropriate about the preists being the same model Cylon.

[johnfunk]

40. Destined to be a Sci-Fi classic line

[Salviati]

152. I was so suspicious after he said that...

It sounded too much like something that number 6 had said earlier... Glad to see my suspicions confirmed, as that means we're going to see a lot more of Dean Stockwell...

[Moochy]

34. The weekly cylon meeting

So was the caprica stockwell on the mission, or with the resistance guys?

[CatholicEdHead]

35. Probably resistance guys

as he was dressed more casually. The Galactia/Pegasus crews were in full battle gear.

[ContraBass Black]

37. He was with the resistance

I knew it would fall apart when he stepped onto the flight deck.

[johnfunk]

38. Gloat Gloat Gloat -- I KNEW Cavil was a cylon!

[gloat]I KNEW he had to be a cylon![/gloat] Gotta LOVE Dean Stockwell... "Take me to your leader!"

[Benfea]

97. It's not as if they didn't drop enough hints.

His little therapy session with the chief was kind of a dead giveaway. The only reason I was thinking he might not be was because I thought they were being too obvious about it.

[CatholicEdHead]

41. A drunk Starbuck is harsh with the truth

[crispini]

44. Damn, she was hurtful.

You just KNOW she and Lee are totally hot for each other way down.

[ContraBass Black]

45. That was incredibly awkward.

He should have walked away a lot faster.

[Benfea]

98. He should have.

But now that we know he's a womanizing skeeze, we can question his motives for sticking around like that.

[Cush]

42. uh oh...Starbuck insulted Dualla

[ContraBass Black]

43. So, drunk humans will always play flip-cup.

[ContraBass Black]

46. So, when male cylons are reborn,

Do they do all that hand holding lovey-dovey stuff?

[ContraBass Black]

50. No!

Yes? No!

[Benfea]

99. ROFL

*erupts from the bath-thingy*

*tenses every muscle, holds arms outstretched and roars like an animal*

*demands beer*

[crispini]

47. LOL, no DRE's on Galactica.

Paper ballots in the future!

[CatholicEdHead]

48. Nice to see paper ballots used

[crispini]

51. LOL, they can still fix it!

[Cush]

49. tsk, tsk...Roslin supporters trying to righ the election

[ContraBass Black]

52. Oh God.

She's been turning more and more into Bush, and now look.

Just with for the exit polls.

[Benfea]

100. The really scary thing is...

…the entire human population would've been better off if she and adm. Adama didn't have a conscience attack at the last moment like that.

[CatholicEdHead]

53. See how long this lasts

we are only halfway through tonight.

[ContraBass Black]

55. Five minutes.

Five minutes, and peole see through it.

[CatholicEdHead]

56. I think Tiegh's drinking will return very soon

[ContraBass Black]

59. They might have just started a civil war.

Think about it. The military splits first.

It could be Galactica vs. Pegasus in a minute.

That, and somebody's about to set off one hell of a bomb. When I saw that in the preview, I thought they had given away the big twist but no...

[CatholicEdHead]

63. Last week's podcast said the series will take many drastic turns

and many of us will think it will be controversial. We still have a half hour left.

[johnfunk]

58. Katherine Harris in outer space -- and without...

... the plastic surgery

[ContraBass Black]

61. I knew she was slimy.

"She's no Billy."

Indeed.

[crispini]

54. "and you can always tell the fixed ones because they don't make sense"

art imitates life again.....

[ContraBass Black]

57. The sky just fell.

But the security-touting, hard edge, conservative election fixer is the heroic character instead of a villain.

[librechik]

62. damn--had to leave the room--wtf just happened? Baltar is prez??

[ContraBass Black]

64. The young guy from CIC told Adama, he called Roslyn out,

And she gave it up.

[librechik]

65. oh man--where was that guy in 2000???

[ContraBass Black]

69. Now he's the president's man.

Two hookers and a bottle of scotch! This pres's got it going on.


I hope they didn't land the battlestars.

[Benfea]

102. Do you really think there's a single Republican like that?

You gotta be kidding me.

[Benfea]

101. They imitated it quite on purpose, methinks. -NT

[ContraBass Black]

60. OMFG, My cable went out for a moment.

Whew.

[CatholicEdHead]

66. Cloud Nine is now gone

What are the odds of a Military Coup in the near future?

[crispini]

67. ONE YEAR LATER?

jeez!

[Benfea]

103. I almost yelled at the TV when those words flashed. Bastards! -NT

[CatholicEdHead]

68. They let a year pass?

After it only being 9 months post-initial attack before?

[ContraBass Black]

71. The Caprica episode filled in details long after they happened.

We might hear more about that year.

[Cush]

70. Baltar is now a pill-head

[ContraBass Black]

72. I missed the pills.

If the hookers are in the back room, why is he waking up on his desk?

Never mind. I probably don't want to know.

[Benfea]

104. Looks like he turned into quite the debauched hedonist. -NT

[crispini]

73. This is wild.

It's all of a sudden turned into a different show.

[ContraBass Black]

75. Oh. This is just as bad as they thought it would be.

Pregnant?

Union president?

[crispini]

74. MARRIED!

[CatholicEdHead]

76. Kallie is pregnent with Chief's kid

[crispini]

79. This is a little crazy.

It's like some alternate world.

[CatholicEdHead]

80. Looks like part of the plan

Let the fleet land, stop running and then pounce. They have 4/5ths of the remaining population on the ground, no trained military. It is part of the Cylon plan.

[ContraBass Black]

77. I'm out for the night.

Thanks, all.

[CatholicEdHead]

78. Dee is XO?

[Benfea]

105. Why not? There's hardly anyone left in orbit anyway. -NT

[ContraBass Black]

124. Everyone and his sister got promoted over Tigh

Who, incidentally, is the only one old enough to not look any older after a year.

[Moochy]

133. Must have been that "stealing the elections" bit on his record

[ContraBass Black]

137. Lee got promoted over him long before that.

[Benfea]

139. She's not over Tigh.

She's XO on a different ship.

[crispini]

81. HOLEE FSCK.

Well, wow, they went somewhere totally different with THAT, eh?

[CatholicEdHead]

84. True to the BG formula

which means there is no formula.

[CatholicEdHead]

82. Well, intresting twist at the end

I can see it being controversial. It will take a while to sink in.

[crispini]

83. The blogosphere will hate it.

I'm willing to take it on sufferance before I decide whether or not they've jumped the shark.

[CatholicEdHead]

88. I will wait until October before I decide if this new direction

will work.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

85. I didnt guess it

I was shocked

[htuttle]

86. Next season: The Occupation

Going to be interesting.

[crispini]

87. Crazy stuff!

As usual. But at least they managed to ramp up the intensity at the end. That's the part about the show I like.

[johnfunk]

89. Occupation? Or sanctuary?...

Brother Cavil may not have been lying about the Cylons "going away" to find their own bag.

The big question: the Six is the "resurrected" Six who was boffing Baltar, and the Sharon (Eight) is the "resurrected" attempted assassin of the Admiral. Yes, it looks like this faction of Cylons wants to control the humans--but are Six and Sharon there to help, or to undermine the occupying faction?

This is gonna get real good. Stock up on the popcorn and get those space helmets carnauba waxed in time for the July launch of season 3.0...

... and, of course, any BSG thread requires the mandatory Grace Park pic! We worship you, o babe-a-luscious Cylon overlordess!

[crispini]

90. Well at the end there they said

that they were one light year away when they detected the nuclear explosion going off.

Now did it take them that whole year to get there, in which case it meant that they headed out after the humans as soon as they knew they were there? But it seems that they could have jumped there? Or maybe they were searching for the whole year? Or what else happened to them in that year?

I think it's pretty clear from her attitude that THAT Six is our old friend Six born again.

[Moochy]

92. The explosion went off one year back

They "just" heard it. Just guessing here but, the nuclear explosion that went off, went off one year ago.

It took the cylons 380 - ( ~365 ) = 15 days or so, to get their invasion fleet ready. It seems doubtful that the Cylon "war heroes" were on that patrol fleet, so they probably had to jump back to the Cylon home planet (wherever that is) and collect the Cylon leader, and the war heroes.

Just a theory.

[htuttle]

93. An EMP a light year away would take a year to get there

Once they heard it, they could get there very quickly.

[crispini]

95. D'oh! Of course. nt

[Benfea]

106. I think the Cylons spent that year arguing with each other.

Arguing, and building that giant freaking armada they showed up with.

[johnfunk]

127. Year? 15 days.

Nuke goes off. EMP from the detonation travels through space for one year -- a distance of one light-year. Cylon spacecraft picks up the pulse, KNOWS what it is because "Gina," the suicidal "Six" cylon, tipped them off about how she intended to use it as a beacon to signal where the humans had settled. Fifteen days later, six (eight) Cylon base stars materialize, the fleet takes off to regroup, and the Cylons land.

But there's something so not right this time -- the Cylons have shown force, as if to occupy, not exterminate, New Caprica, but there's something about their attitude in the President's office.

Baltar blundered by surrendering.

My bet: the Cylons need something. Bad.

I bet they haven't been able to finish a new resurrection station. Something is also limiting their ability to "build" new sentients. They need to breed, but can't on their own.

And there could be a new "X" factor. Has something else emerged as a threat to the Cylons? Did they somehow lose their homeworld, too?

Stay tuned...

[Moochy]

136. Maybe the baby?

The one in the same white crib that baltar saw in his visions? You know, Hilo and Sharons' little hybrid bundle of joy.

[CatholicEdHead]

91. No, we have to wait until October for new episodes

Filming for Season 3.0 does not even start until next month.

[Benfea]

107. Why the FRACK are they making us wait 'til October?

Sadists!

[Dogmudgeon]

94. Many realignments

They've been setting them up since mid-year at least; some have been set up since the beginning. I do get the impression that the writers originally planned for a longer season, then had to compress some of the episodes rather drastically. It also looks like Aaron Douglas (Chief Tirol) and Nicki Clyne (Callie) are finally going to get some well-deserved significant character-arc time.

• The falling-out between Apollo and Starbuck. (And what did she say about Duala?)


• The quickly-developed Apollo/Duala coupling. Kandyse McClure gets some more character development, another Good Thing.


• The equally-quickly-developed Tirol/Callie partnership, as above (listed here again to increase the bullet count).


• What of Cylon-Sharon and Helo's one-scene breakup?


• Sharon and Helo's half-Cylon baby. Is it the "Maltese Falcon" of the series?


• Starbuck's possible reconciliation with Tigh. Ten-to-one they become tight, as resistance leaders.


• Ellen Tigh not running around.


• "Husker" Adama's facial hair. It's been consistently used as a symbol of times of military laxity. I think he will keep it until Episode Three.


• Where's Tom Zarek?


• Where's the Number Six from inside Baltar's head?


• The Cylons destroyed the human race. Why would they come to New Caprica and just occupy it?


• Hybridization of Cylons and Humans has been a subplot, but no compelling reason for it has been given.


• Speaking of reasons, why are the Cylons such religiomaniacs?


• Lucy Lawless' character gets a ten-ep arc next season.


• Are they still going to look for Earth?

On the other hand, the bastards are going to make us wait until October for the next season.

I don't think that the series has jumped the shark. No talking carrots yet.

--p!

[crispini]

96. Good points.

Lots of meat and potatoes to explore.

[Benfea]

108. About Zarek.

New Caprica just became his wildest wet dream. I have a funny feeling he's going to be neck deep in the resistance, where his peculiar talents will come in mighty handy.

As for Ellen, they didn't show her running around on the XO, but that doesn't mean she hasn't. In fact, I would be very much surprised if she didn't.

The Cylons destroyed the human race. Why would they come to New Caprica and just occupy it?

Most of the Cylons are religious fanatics. Why do you think they're doing this? Yeesh! One interesting revelation is that not all Cylons are so fanatically devoted to the religion (e.g. the older guy posing as a priest).

[ThoughtCriminal]

109. Prediction: Many flashbacks next season

They did it a lot this season. There will be many falshbacks to the one year gap from the election to occupation.

[ContraBass Black]

123. The 6 in Baltar's head announced Judgement Day at the end.

Is Sharon still in the Brig?

There's something beautiful about the chief becoming president of the union and ordering a strike, as well as Roslyn becoming an elementary school teacher and gloating at the President.

Good heavens, they all live in tents?

[crispini]

110. You know, on the re-air, I'm thinking that

the colonists are far far too calm when the cyclon ships start flying over. I'm thinking that realistically there would have been an awful lot of hysteria there and probably a riot.

Baltar is a yutz, but the guy playing him is a TERRIFIC actor.

That male cyclon reminds me of Kevin Spacey for some reason.

[Yollam]

112. He reminds you of Kevin Spacey because he looks exactly like him.

Probably helped him get the part.

This episode was such a downer of an ending! I'm still hooked, but I'm depressed at the state things are in. I thought it had to be a dream sequence for the last 30 mins.

Baltar is a regular George Bush, with Clinton's womanizing thrown in for good measure. Honestly, his debauchery seemed a bit over the top, even for Baltar. I can't even imagine that the last survivors of humanity would ever become that lax, even after a year. They are stretching credibility with that one.


Sill, looking forward to next season....

[NewJeffCT]

120. Baltar is a genius, though

He may be a self-centered hedonist, but he also designed most of the defense systems for the colonies, came up with the "cylon detector" and more.

[okieinpain]

148. who says bush isn't a womanizer. he's done it in the past, who's

said that he's stopped.

[Yollam]

149. He may or many not be, but Clinton definitely was.

And as far as I'm concerned, that doesn't entirely speak ill of Clinton. I have no idea what the arrangement between him and Hillary is, but the fact that he likes women and sex makes him seem more human to me, whereas Bush seems like the type who would be a horrible and insensitive lover. If he is a womanizer, I pity his mistresses.

[Benfea]

151. On the other hand, I wouldn't pity Jeff Gannon in the slightest.

We still don't know who Jeffy was seeing in the White House, after all.

[Dogmudgeon]

115. Riots and Fear

This is one of those things that I've actually looked into because it's almost canon in fiction, especially S-F: when large groups of people get scared, they riot. In fiction, anyway.

In real life, they seldom do. Most of the time, they "freeze", just as they showed at the end of the episode. They may look calm, but they're "scared stiff". People almost never riot in war as troops are advancing on their city, or connected to natural disasters.

Once people get moving again after the initial shock, they become depressed, withdrawn, and mopey. This whole sequence has been seen to happen time and time again. Most Americans think of riots as being large-scale public hysteria because that's the way the press portrays them; for example, the riots in L.A. in the 1990s were smaller than they were reported. Most rioting is not related to fear, but to frustration after a period of hopefulness and optimism, which can be easily seen in places where the government changes frequently.

Speaking of riots in California, there was an enormous riot on the campus of Chico State University in the middle 1980s during a large, school-wide party that became a beer-fueled brawl. That riot didn't get nearly the attention that the L.A. riots got, but the town was nicer looking and the rioters had less skin pigmentation. Other white-kid riots, like the Mardi Gras celebration on Philadelphia's South Street in 2001, and various other college riots, are seldom taken that seriously.

As for the guy who plays Baltar, it's the kind of a role many actors would mortgage their right arms for. I agree, James Callis' acting has been incredible. Callis is a well-known actor and musician in England, and has won several awards; so has Jamie Bamber (Apollo). And Michael Hogan (Tigh) is likewise one of Canada's best-known actors.

By the way, if you've ever seen Saved, both Aaron Douglas (Tirol) and Nicki Clyne (Callie) have bit parts in it. Clyne plays one of the musicians who jam with the vocal group Jena Malone and Mandy Moore are with; Douglas was the paramedic when Malone went into labor.

--p!

[LiviaOlivia]

111. "I'm the President. I don't have to answer questions."

Best line tonight.

[Benfea]

140. Sound like anyone we know?

Someone like… I dunno… Darth Jar-Jar?

[Yollam]

113. By the way, notice how they fattened/aged Apollo near the end?

Very convincing. Was this makeup, or was this part filmed after a hiatus? Remarkable transformation.

[Babel_17]

119. It was makeup

You can download and listen to the podcast/episode commentary.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/index...

Here's a link to the Television Without Pity forum. They're down for maintenance at the moment but they discuss the episodes exhaustively.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/index...

Here's a link to TWoP's recap of last weeks episode.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/story.cgi?show=145...

If you recorded the show you can play the commentary in synch with it by starting the commentary when the words "The Cylons were created by man" appear on the screen. When you hear a beep that means you should pause it for the commercial break.

If your memory is good you can just listen to it by itself. It's not a blow by blow discussion of the episode. Actually, it's more of a general discussion and they go off on tangents.

[Writer]

114. I've never seen a show do such a great job of breaking TV convention

This episode was phenomenal! Think about it - why WOULDN'T stupid voters vote on emotion and put a man like Baltar in office? Why WOULDN'T the settlement on New Caprica go forth, and why WOULDN'T it pan out the way it had after one year?

I keep wondering if this is not a science fiction as much as a human interest story. All of the issues listed above: terrorist annihilation, an emotional, manipulated public, and a self-destructive government are all issues we as Americans recently have encountered. It's so believable because we are living the effects of similar themes today in 2006 America.

BSG could have played it safe. They could have fallen back on keeping the ships, and the people, in space. They could have continued the same line, avoiding logic and maintaining a suspension of disbelief. These people would have WANTED to settle. And the writers of the show let it happen - bravo for listening to their instincts!

I'm thrilled and can't wait for October!

[crispini]

117. Voters vote on fear, though.

We all know that; we've lived it. Now maybe Madame President didn't do such a good job of terrifying her people into voting for her, but one thing recent history has taught us is that voters vote for those they think will "keep us safe."

[ContraBass Black]

121. The thing is though, the "There she goes again trying to scare you"

Is what WE say about BUSH. The republicans are the ones who are tight with the military even though they're civilians, and run on security platforms and pander to the religious right. Roslyn has been getting more and more ruthless and reckless, curtailing personal rights, killing Cylons, and refusing to answer to anyone. Baltar launched his campaign on abortion rights.


The liberal won the election, and it was a disaster for humanity.

[crispini]

128. Very interesting point.

I love it when they mess with my head like that.

[ermoore]

138. Down with allegory!

I think it's a mistake to look at BSG as a complete allegory to things in our world. Clearly the writers are drawing on circumstances here, but they mix it up so well and the BSG situation is so complicated you can't make easy comparisons.
There are so many other factors that it ruins any real parallel with our world.
Are the Cylons human? Are they alive? Either way, they did try (and almost succeed) to annihilate the human race, so they lose a lot of whatever innocence they had there. I don't really think it's very outrageous to throw them out the airlock.
The human race is down from 12 fully colonized planets to around 45,000 refugees being hunted by a superior force. Nothing in our world is analogous to that. Not even close. This affects so many things from abortions to the role (and weight) of the government and military.
Furthermore the writers do such a great job mixing everything up where the neither "liberal" side or the "conservative" side is always in the right. There is no W in BSG.
I just think it's an awesome show and you'll enjoy it a lot more if you just watch and don't try to plug it in to our world.

[crispini]

142. Allegory is fun!

I agree, it's not a complete allegory by any means, and I agree that there are no easy comparisons, but isn't that part of the entertainment of watching such a complicated TV show (or, for that matter, any multilayered work of literature)? It's interesting to see that there are elements of the undemocratic, over-powerful leader in both Roslin AND Balthar.

Yes, if you take an oversimplified view of things, then you're going to wind up distorting the meaning of the text, but if you're inclined to do so you may very well distort the meaning of real life as well.

I just think it's fun to use BSG as a mirror or prism to look through at our own world. Do I think that the people who go, "Oh, look, X happened so it's a liberal show" or "it's a conservative show" are full of shit? Yes. Some people's interpretation of a text tells you more about THEM than it does about the text.

But do I think that the authors are making interesting comments about the world today and about our human condition? Most definitely.

[ContraBass Black]

122. Good science fiction is always about people.

People in extraordinary situations.

[Writer]

143. Very true.

Think Ray Bradbury.

[Dogmudgeon]

116. BSG and Politics

A lot of people look at Battlestar Galactica politics as being a commentary on American politics.

I kind of disagree.

Remember, BSG is primarily a Canadian production. The politics of the survivors of the Colonies are in some ways representative of international politics.

However, there is a country whose people are said to be just like the description of the Cylons: hyper-conformist, polite but ruthless, religiously fanatic, and in posession of advanced and deadly technology. Would anyone care to guess what country that might be?

--p!

[crispini]

118. Ronald Moore is American, though.

And isn't it interesting that his undergraduate degree is in Political Science.

I agree that the show is very good at "mixing it up." There's a lot of stuff in there that can be read as a commentary on just about everyone.

Now that I've had time to sleep on it, I'm not entirely sure I buy Baltar's complete transformation to dictatorial asshole pill popping hedonist in just one year. I mean, the hedonist parts of his character have always been abundantly clear, but prior to this the guy has had an essential likeability. He produced a lot of respected scientific work on Caprica, at least that's what we're led to believe. I just always thought of him as having some redeeming qualities.

Nah, maybe I do buy it. Because Baltar has always been really only interested in one thing: Baltar.

[Dogmudgeon]

129. None of the characters are simple

Which is one of the many reasons we both like the show -- us and about ten million other fans.

Baltar isn't just a highly conflicted man, he's probably mentally ill, as well. Keeping in mind that the Cylons exploit human weaknesses, it makes perfect sense that they'd give him his own mental Number Six. His core redeeming quality is that he is quick to save, preserve, and protect life. He isn't self-serving unless he's turned inward, and his hallucinatory Number Six sees to that.

One of the feet-of-clay of most of the other characters is that they disrespect Baltar with an active contempt that borders on bigotry. This has never been explained, since they don't know that he was key to the initial Cylon destruction of the Colonies, and now the discovery and occupation of New Caprica. Both Adama and Roslin took the initiative to disrespect him. Even Gaeta (Alessandro Juliani), BSG's model of probity, is seen as disgusted with him.

And we also don't know what those pills are for.

Gaius Baltar is going to have to be redeemed if he's to avoid becoming a one-dimensional villain. He's too petty to be a true antagonist, and too talented to remain in a single role. And it's likely that the writers will make him suffer every second of the next season. If the Numbers Six and Eight who are with the occupation party are the "rebel war heroes", then we have the makings of a big plot thread.

On the other hand, if Baltar so much as utters, "Oh, the pain, the pain!", we should expect a visit from Henry Winkler on water skis.

--p!
Exactamundo, Cunningham!

[crispini]

132. Oh, I understand why they don't like him.

You're right, he's probably mentally ill, even if it's cylon-induced. The fact that he's been caught talking to thin air (Six) more than once doesn't help. Have you ever been in a group of people who have a member who is somewhat odd, borderline crazy, and that group is forced to work with that member? It's very easy for a group like that to reach an unspoken consensus that "he's nuts" and go on to exclude that person with all of the frostiness that Roslin and Adama show Baltar. I've noticed this happening in groups I belong to more than once... it certainly is one of the more unattractive human traits, you are correct about that.

I think Baltar's love and devotion to Six (and her tortured "sister") is one of his most redeeming qualities. I'm not so sure I'd agree that this signifies a devotion to preserving and protecting life in general. He doesn't seem capable of much empathy for the human populace in general...

[Benfea]

147. Hey, you just explained a lot about my social life!

Just kidding. I couldn't resist the bad joke.

[Dogmudgeon]

150. Baltar's empathy

(Yep, I'm going to keep this thread alive, mainly because my computer was dead yesterday.)

Baltar is like most arrogant people -- he has a superficial disdain for "the sheep" but in reality, he's a sheep himself, and he actually craves approval. He is Roslin's enemy but he saved her life, even after reading her nasty letter. He may have saved most of the people on New Caprica by surrendering quickly. He saved Sharon Valerii early on by NOT outing her as a Cylon. Baltar is the great paradox and dialectic-driver of the show. He is evil, yet he is somehow chosen both by the Gods of Kobol and the Cylons' One True God. He is a man who is not in control of his own destiny, but rather, just a participant-observer. No wonder he shakes and sweats like a tiny dog. That, I think, is why he's mentally ill -- he has become the archetypal "lost soul", overcome with fear, decisive only when being an SOB.

I actually do know a little bit about crazies, having worked extensively with demented patients in both psych units and as a neurophysiology tech, doing EEGs and about half a dozen other tests on them. (Gluing electrodes onto the heads of people with paranoid schizophrenia is quite a nerve-wracking experience for both tech and patient!) They tend not to talk to themselves as much as the popular impression has it -- the self-talkers tend to have actual physical brain damage. However, I think that from the POV of the story, Roslin and Adama Sr. dislike Baltar not because he's crazy, but because he is superficially decadent. Their dislike is a profound disrespect. Even Gaeta, who became Baltar's factotum, appears to have developed that disrespect in the year on New Caprica.

Roslin and Adama Sr., although they are the parent-figures of the series, have shown themselves to be hypocrites in the extreme -- stealing elections, suspending civil rights, threatening to kill union officials. Neither have shown much taste for democracy, and could be termed "soft fascists" -- or monarchists. And, as great as the acting skills of Olmos and McDonnell are, sometimes they could just phone their roles in. I also think it's a testimony to the company's acting that many of the actors have landed roles in other shows and movies in the last three years. Aaron Douglas and Nicki Clyne, as I wrote, got small parts in Saved!; Clyne will be in at least two more movies this year, and both Olmos and McDonnell have been busy after a longish hiatus before they were signed to BSG.

Number Six is going to be the enigma. She was resurrected and became a rebel among the Cylons. Whether she was the Number Six who arrived with the invasion fleet remains to be seen. Or, perhaps, she is the Number Six who destroyed the Cloud Nine and several other ships -- it was implied that over 10,000 colonists were killed. And anyway, it's refreshing to see a supermodel become an excellent actor. Number Eight -- Sharon -- is going to have a doppelgänger role besides. There's two of them now, and one's a rebel. I also don't think the writers will let the Chief (is it Tyrol or Tirol?) off the hook with her, especially since he's now with her murderer.

Yes, it's shaping up to be a big cast, but it's a big show. It is notoriously difficult to produce good ensemble sci-fi, but BSG's writers and directors seem to have no problem with keeping a dozen strong character and plot arcs active. Any one member of the cast could easily carry a lesser show; Alien Nation was carried by Gary Graham and Eric Pierpont (whose single other recognizable role was as the defendant in Liar, Liar).

I dislike military sci-fi as a rule, but before Battlestar Galactica, I thought that the best thing on TV had been Space: Above And Beyond, which was on Fox in 95-97. It likewise got great reviews and pulled in the numbers, but Fox pulled it in favor of some forgettable hip-hop-demographic show. Fortunately, the Sci-Fi Channel seems to have a few execs who know how to program.

--p!

[Moochy]

131. Baltar was profoundly affected by the nuke

From what I saw, when he was told by Adama about the nuke, he was quite literally shattered. He'd lost the physical copy of his muse/demon.

[crispini]

134. That's true, good point.

[LiviaOlivia]

135. Season 3 article...spoilers?

Galactica Producer Talks Season Three
Written by Scott Collura
Saturday, 11 March 2006

http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/3300/2 /

James Callis' President Baltar (né Vice President Baltar, né Doctor Baltar) continues to be one of the most interesting characters on the show – and if you don't agree with that statement, you really should watch tonight's episode again. Moore certainly agrees, and as he explains, Baltar's recent journey towards the dark side has only just begun.

~snip~

"It's also sort of, in a different way, part of the plan of moving Baltar to a darker place and making him into more of an antagonist," says Moore.

[YankeyMCC]

125. What makes BSG so good

is that it is a commentary only on the universe Moore and the other writers have created.

But they've made that universe, that setting so realistic, human and relevant that it acts as a mirror for the audience. But it's a mirror that reflects based on what is in the viewer's mind. There's lots there that can be compared to current events in the US or in the world in general and there's lots there that be be compared to historical events.

Of course the writers have their own human biases and those will creep in but the reason the show appears to be such a good mirror for real human life is that it is made to stand on it's own as a real human situation.

[ContraBass Black]

126. Those cruel, cruel writers.

They spend two whole seasons building a world in a fleet of spaceships, turn that world upside down by landing it on a planet, and then 30 minutes later blow the whole thing up bye occupying it with Cylons, and make us wait until October to see what happens next.

[CatholicEdHead]

130. Who says the fleet is gone for good?

I can see them back on the fleet within half next season. The fleet of basically empty ships has jumped off unscathed (with the ones not hit with the nuke explosion). There are ways to put 39,000 people back on the ships and get them moving again.

[Benfea]

141. Yep.

I assume that in the first few episodes of season three, most of the humans on New Caprica will find themselves back on those empty ships you mentioned and under Laura Roslyn's banner. Baltar will have his moment of Great Treason and side with the Cylons. One way or another, Baltar will be put in charge of pursuing the remaining humans, and the chase will be on again.

[Benfea]

144. 5 years later? Olmos not coming back? Noooooooooooooo!

This is third hand information, so take it how you will, but I heard that on the podcast they mentioned that season three will resume five years after the events of the season finale and that Olmos won't be coming back.

[Babel_17]

145. Pretty sure that was a joke

I heard that section of that commentary and that's how I took it.

I've only listened to about the first third of it so far.

I have been to the TWoP forums and if Olmos was leaving it would have been mentioned in that monster thread.

See my post above for links.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Benfea]

146. I hope so.

Otherwise, I'll feel obliged to curl up in a corner and cry myself to death.

[Ryano42]

153. He must be coming back!

He got his moustache!!! Major negotiating point I am certain!
Season 4 he will get a Zoot Suit too! Ese VATO Pachuco!

(great movie btw)