Wills that include your pets?

[Crazy Dave]

It's official. My wife and I discussed it last night that if something ever happens to us after mom is no longer with us, (hopefully a long way off) that we will make arrangements using other options besides family to set up some kind of trust fund and find a pet hotel or farm to take care of all our critters for the rest of their lives.

Anybody else here already doing that or are me and my wife the only few kooks that worry about stuff like that?

[REP]

1. Not Alone

My brother and SIL, my mother and I have all done the same thing.

[Crazy Dave]

2. Awww!

www.alleycat.org I haven't seen that one yet. I'll make sure to give this evening.

[REP]

3. They're a Great Group

They truly bust their asses to help feral cats. Any donation is always greatly appeciated - but watch out: there's some really, really adorable photos on their site.

[xchrom]

4. i'll do that for my next animals.

and i believe that there is an aids organization that helps people with their animals for their next journey in life.

pets have been very important to a lot of people with severe aids -- and many didn't have animals before they got sick -- but needed a fourfooter to take care of to keep their spirits up.

[Crazy Dave]

5. That's heartbreaking

But maybe one pet that outlives his keeper (or vice versa as in our home) the pet can go to another patient and take care of them. I did hear one time though that animals feel depression too when they see pain and suffering so they might need a little break in between. I heard that about rescue dogs in major catastrophes, that they start getting sad and depressed when they find too many deceased people.

[xchrom]

6. yeah -- i think our companions need a break.

when they are in a situation like that.

they really do suffer a long with us.

but our animal companions need no encouragement when it comes to taking on labours of love!

[China_cat]

7. Rescue dogs actually get worse

when they DON'T find anybody. For us that's a good thing because it usually means there's nobody left to find but for the dogs it's a failure to do their job.

[Crazy Dave]

8. I saw it on TV

There was a gentleman and a woman who did it privately and they went to the 2004 Tsunami disaster. The woman spoke about their dogs getting depressed after finding many deceased people after a couple of weeks and that they needed a few days off to rest and play from time to time. Maybe it's in the training or just the owner's opinions but I can understand the rationality for it.

[China_cat]

11. I wasn't disputing that they get

depressed while working and finding, just saying that they actually get worse when they don't find.

[Crazy Dave]

13. You said you do this type of work?

[China_cat]

16. My breed of choice is often trained for

search and rescue so I know some of the trainers and handlers. One of my youngest dog's litter sisters is a cadaver dog.

[Deep13]

9. Coming up next on "Why They Hate Us"...

Wow! Most people in the world sleep on a dirt floor or go to bed hungry and we are making trust funds for dogs and cats! Wow.

[Coventina]

10. If you have made an animal a part of your family, it deserves to be cared

for after your death.

[Deep13]

12. "deserves"? People get attached to their pets and consider them...

...family, but considering does not make it so. "Deserve" is a moral judgment that simply does not apply to anything outside of human interactions. Animals deserve neither kindness nor cruelty and have no expectations either way.

[Coventina]

14. Humans are animals.

And you are making your own moral judgement by saying they deserve no human consideration.

[Deep13]

18. Yes, and our moral code is a product of our primate instincts.

Our morals exist for regulating our behavior in our human society. If someone is immoral or evil or good it has no objective meaning beyond what we think of each other. Saying a cat can deserve something is like saying that a cat can be guilty of a crime. The whole concept of moral culpability or honor is alien to its nature.

[Nikia]

17. Pets are domesticated animals

They were born and bred to help humans. Of course some animals are bred to be killed and eaten. Pets are bred to be companion animals to humans.
Dogs were originally domesticated from wolves which are a social animal. Domesticated dogs are social animals who are bred and socialized to being social with humans. If a dog's humans die, they need someone to care for them or they will die also. Often they are turned over to the Humane Society if a particuliar relative doesn't want them. Less desirable dogs, like those who are older or have some sort of behaviorial problem might end up euthanized. At a no kill shelter, they have less social interaction than with a human family. I think that it makes sense to make arrangements for the care of your pets after death.
As far as alocating money for pets as opposed to poor people who one does not know, ones first obligation is to those for who one has primary responsibility for, like ones family. Pets are also ones primary responsibility. While it is important that hungry people in the world are fed, individually you have no greater responsibility for them than any other individual. We could just as easily ask the millionaire who was dying, why he was not only leaving a small sum to his children, who already had good jobs, and the majority of his fortune to the less fortunate individuals.

[Deep13]

19. People can do what they want with their money, of course.

Still it seems frivolous to me. If the person who is attached to the pet dies, any sense that it is part of the family dies with him or her. Ultimate, pets are domestic animals that, like livestock, exist for our purposes and have done very well with that arrangement. Most varieties of dogs or cats would not even exist without selective breeding and artificial support by humans.

Here is an example that sometimes comes up in divorce court.

A person in the marriage, lets say the wife, owns a dog and has a pretty much who-cares attitude. It is part of the furniture to her and maybe is even a little abused or neglected. Then she gets married and the husband takes a real attachment to the dog. He trains it, takes it hunting, is kindly and the two are inseperable. Now they get divorced, who gets custody of the dog?

The answer: no one gets "custody" because animals are property, not children. The wife keeps the dog because it was a premarital asset and is not subject to division by the divorce court.

[Coventina]

23. Well, I hope you don't do anything "frivolous" with your money.

Like owning a tv, or a stereo, or going to see movies, or buying cds, dvds, going on vacations, eating at restaurants, etc.

All that money could be going to the world's poor.

[Crazy Dave]

15. I sympathize with those people

But letting my pets starve or be put to sleep after my passing is not going to solve their's or the world's problems. You be surprised too at how many people in poor countries take better care and treat their pets more humanely than some of our wealthy in this country do.

Also, people hate because they do, then they look for convenient excuses to justify it.

[Deep13]

21. Poor people take better care of their animals because they...

...depend on them for their survival. If a sheperd's dog is killed, it is a real impediment to his livelihood or even survival. People in agrarian or pasteral societies do not have the luxury of that kind of emotional attachment.

I reject your argument that people hate us (I probably should have said resent rather than hate) for no reason. People who are scraping by are not being irrational if they resent others who are wasteful.

[Crazy Dave]

25. Very good, I respect your opinion

And I appreciate your civility in addressing us here with your thoughts. Most people would have only said, "you all are stupid" but you present yourself very well for someone who disagrees. I'm also glad that the majority that are disagreeing with you aren't ganging up on you and are being just as considerate.
I hope the thread can stay that way as long as it's on the front page.

[SoCalDem]

20. So what's the alternative?

Because the last person to die (of a couple) who has no family member they trust with their sweet pet(s), should just let the paramedics/whoever just drop their precious pet off at the shelter?

I see nothing wrong with writing something into your will that expresses your wishes about your animals who outlive you.

Our case is classic.. We have these cats, you see...Our son who lives a few blocks from us, happens to be allergic to cats and shares a home with 3 other people right now. He will have his own home in the not too distant future, but even then, he could not take our babies in.

One son lives in Northern Calif, and has two sweet cats of his own, but unfortunately heis wife is not a pet person, and is not looking at their cats' aging as all that bad of a thing.

Our other son lives in Seattle, and has enough trouble taking care of himself, without havig to take on our pets.

The cats who will likely outlive us, are the ones that I scooped up, still in their sacs with placentas attached, after their 'mom' deposited them like easter eggs, all over the yard. I was the one who washed the ants off and cut their cords..cleaned out their mouths, and bottle fed them..I AM the only real Mom they have ever known..

Why should their lives come to an abrupt end at a shelter just because their 'mom' happened to be an OLD mom, instead of a young one?

We are not the kind of people who would "leave it all to the cats", but I would certainly try to have advance homes in mind for them, and would gladly provide some soret of financial "help" to someone who would continue to love and care for these critters I tried so hard to save

[Deep13]

22. "precious pet "

It is only precious to them. It is not like there is any shortage of dogs or cats in this country. When the owners are gone, the pets are no longer precious.

[SoCalDem]

24. That's why you must plan ahead

and try to find people in advance to look after them. They are not like used kleenex, just needing a quick toss into a trash can somewhere..

[Coventina]

26. I sure hope you are a vegetarian.

If you think that animals exist just for the benefit of homo sapiens then you are exemplifying the attitude that workers exist just for the benefit of factory owners.