Do you think pedophiles are really able to use the internet to rape kids?

[El Fuego]

Granted I know they are the scum of the earth, but I don't think a cute 12 year old girl is REALLY going to invite an ugly old guy over to her house for oral sex after seeing a picture of his genitalia (as seen on Dateline). This is only going to happen in a pedophile's dark fantasies.

It's true the sexual predators hang out in chat rooms with evil intent, but I think a lot of the time they are really just chatting with other pervs pretending to be kids.

On the Dateline "news" show, someone poses as a child and has a very sexual online chat with a pedophile. They blank out some of the words, but the viewer knows what's being said. Then the viewer gets to see the pedophile being publicly excoriated. It's just sick reality TV.

I doubt that sexual predators are really able to make sex dates with real life kids through chat rooms. I THINK Dateline is whipping up this "danger-to-our-children" hysteria so they can put on this prurient, highly sexual programming and act all innocent like they're providing a public service.

[jpgray]

1. I think you're right

The scenario they present is highly unlikely to unfold in real life. But while I don't like the obscenely voyeuristic hook of the show, I do think pedophiles who still are willing to act on their desires should be dealt with.

[Whoa_Nelly]

12. If it's highly unlikely to unfold in real life

then why, in real life, did so many connect with and act on their sick needs and show up at the sting house?

Shame on those who want to discount the fact that, due to the Internet, there are even more who are willing to expand their search for finding a kid to abuse. This is not the "old" days of even ten years ago when the majority of pedophiles were known to the kids either through family or neighborhood. And while those types of connections still occur, there is a fast rising number of sickos who willingly, for whatever sense of warped reasoning skills they possess, seek and pursue vulnerable kids online. If anything, BECAUSE they don't have a direct connection to the kids re: family/neighbor, it probably makes it all the more appealing when there is less chance of being caught due to anonymity.

[jpgray]

26. I said highly unlikely, not impossible

But I don't think it's the epidemic these programs lead parents and other concerned adults to believe. In most molestation cases, if I recall, the predator is not an anonymous internet chatter, but someone known or even related to the child. Sexual internet predators definitely exist and should be taken seriously, but I think the dangers are blown out of proportion by these shockumentaries, and that the police officers who do this undercover work are far more canny at soliciting a criminal proposition than a real child is likely to be. As I said, it's good on many levels to entrap pedophiles who are willing to act on their desires, but I also think it's kind of obscenely voyeuristic the way it is covered, and the coverage also blows internet predation out of proportion.

[Evergreen Emerald]

62. It is extremely common for predators to find kids on the internet

they use the child's personal web-page to find the kids and befriend them.

[Benfea]

2. Agreed

I'm not defending pedophiles by any stretch, but the mainstream media has a long track record of stoking people's fears just to boost ratings.

In the 1980s they convinced America there was a rampant explosion of crime in poor black neighborhoods at a time when crime in black neighborhoods was going down. The result of this was the early rise of the Republican party on a wave of "I'll save you from the scary black man" law and order campaigns, accompanied by a serious erosion of our civil liberties and the creation of a new American gulag. We used to make fun of communist countries for having such a large percentage of their population in prisons, and now we've surpassed them.

Later, the media convinced America's parents that the world is full of serial killers who will rape and murder your children if you let them out of your sight for more than 3 seconds. Consequently, modern American children don't play outdoors anymore and spend all their time in front of the TV watching crappy shows and playing video games hour after hour, day after day. Now our children are overweight, prone to attention deficit disorder, and have poor social skills. But hey, at least you kept your kids safe from the angry horde of serial killers lurking right outside your front door.

Now it's sexual predators in Internet chat rooms. I'm afraid to find out what the consequences of this one will be.

[jpgray]

3. It's TV that's cheap to produce and gets ratings

It's the same reason that we have so many "trial of the century" stories on a biweekly basis--real investigative reporting is expensive, takes patience, and may not pay off in ratings.

[Benfea]

6. That's precisely why I gave up on TV news during the O.J. Simpson thing

Immediately after the O.J. thing, they launched right into the princess Di thing, which I felt vindicated my decision.

[regnaD kciN]

54. It shouldn't take too much imagination to figure that one out...

Now it's sexual predators in Internet chat rooms. I'm afraid to find out what the consequences of this one will be.

Namely, some means of identifying each Internet user's actual identity, and the ability to track everything they do online.

After all, we have to "ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION," don't we? :sarcasm:

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. What part of a child that has no love do you not understand?

There are plenty of kids out there who are vulnerable and open to these sick fucks for a myriad of reasons: Dysfunctional family, no family around 90+% of the time, a need to be wanted and see having sex as an avenue of affirmation that someone out there wants them, if only for their bodies, a need to prove they are "grown up"...and more.

Yes, there are plenty of kids who are abused by these sick fucks who are more than willing to fulfill their sick needs at the expense of a child.

[El Fuego]

13. Sure it happens, but usually with someone they already know and trust

I think it is far less likely they will want to meet a stranger just for sex.

[Kire]

15. banana dance time!

[El Fuego]

20. .

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[JVS]

66. Nice Avatar, especially in this thread of all places

Also great sigline. Rock on Kire

[Whoa_Nelly]

17. And you base this opinion on...?

I won't be narrow in my views about what's happening with kids these days, and those who will take advantage them.

There are still those who will abuse kids they know re: family/neighborhood, but the world is a smaller place and so much more accessible via the Internet.

No matter what the ratings/reasons NBC participated in this sting operation, there are stings going on that aren't on TV, and the numbers are greater and greater as more pedophiles take advantage of kids under the cloak of anonymity.

Yeah...the kids that are abused are known to the perps....kinda keeps it simple and a great way to bash NBC, instead of putting NBC aside and realizing this a whole 'nother world than even a few short years ago.

Denial ain't a river in Egypt.

As a retired SpEd teacher, have horror stories, court cases, involved in regard to sexually abused children.

A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile.
There are no lines they won't cross.
There are no barriers they won't disregard.

[Benfea]

45. That statistic is cited all the time.

Statistically, if your child is sexually abused, it's going to be a man, and it's going to be someone they're already close to and whom the parents (mistakenly) trust. Perhaps an uncle or one of daddy's friends or a priest.

[Benfea]

42. There really are serial killers out there too...

…but that doesn't justify the mainstream media creating the impression that there is a serial killer around every corner, and scaring parents into changing their parenting habits in ways that create health risks for their children (e.g. obesity because they're glued to a TV set instead of outside and playing).

Back in the 80s, there really was a gang problem, and there really were bad drug dealers and terrible things going on in ghettoes, but that doesn't justify the mainstream media hyping it up so that the vast majority of Americans (including the blacks that lived in those neighborhoods) that there was an explosion of black crime at a time when the crime rate among blacks actually went down. The result of this hyping the media did was the rise of the Republican party (on their "I'll save you from the scary black man" campaigns) and a serious erosion of our civil liberties and the creation of the prison-industrial complex and incarceration rates that exceed even the former Soviet Union.

Now they're hyping up pedophilia. Just as with black crime in the 80s and serial killers in the 90s, they're hyping it up because it makes people afraid, and it boosts their ratings. Just as before, they're creating the impression that the problem is bigger and more widespread than it really is. What unintended negative consequence is likely to arise from this new bit of fear-mongering by the media?

Fear is a dangerous, dangerous thing, and anyone who manipulates it deliberately (no matter how worthy the cause) is going to do more harm than good.

I'm not in any way defending pedophiles, serial killers, or gang members, but I'm not going to let the media once again blow something out of proportion and make me fearful enough to make a really bad decision with consequences that will impact future generations. I'm simply asking you to keep things in perspective.

[Radical Activist]

44. Or they were abused by a family member

which makes them more open to that, and more likely to do it themselves in the future.

Its not as though you can't pretend to be someone else on the net as well.

[Redstone]

52. Hey, you used "myriad" correctly (a myriad of)! And you're right

about the kids, too. Very well said.

Redstone

[two gun sid]

5. I work at a prison that treats sex offenders....

I am an electrician and not any kind of mental health pro, so, this is purely anecdotal. I have found that most child molester's victims are known to the offender, either relation or neighbor. I think this Dateline show is like you said: "whipping up danger-to-our-children" programming.

[elehhhhna]

7. this is a form of entrapment that I approve of.

flame away.

Check the news--they do make dates w/ underaged children. Myspace has some shockingly provacative homepages, btw,by teens who clearly haven't enough supervision and are incredibly naive.

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. Might I suggest "Warming the Stone Child" ...and yes, I can see this

happening.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1564550818/103-2210988-2859043?v=glance&n=283155

Unfortunately the parents who would have most benefited from this Dateline bit don't really care enough about their children to watch.

[bertha katzenengel]

9. ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION.

That's all I can say.

(But I agree w/ your last paragraph: prurience = ratings. :puke:)

[Midlodemocrat]

10. I think it is possible. I had a neighbor

whose husband was arrested in DC because he was intent on meeting up with the '14 year old', he met online.

Of course, it wasn't a 14 year old, but a police officer.

Creepy thing to me was that he had kids of his own. Yuck.

That being said, I think it is far less common that a predator meets a child online than taking advantage of one their already know.

[LisaL]

11. I guess you missed those amber alerts now and then, where

some young girl goes missing after she met some men on the net. Of course it is actually happening. If it wasn't, wtf do you think pedophiles would spend so much time on the net looking for victims?
:eyes:

[El Fuego]

18. I meant "children" as in under-12 pre-teens

Teenage girls are a different story. They can and will do stupid things, including going off with a strange man from the internet.

I'm talking about pedophiles. Pedophiles don't go after sexually mature albeit underage girls.
My post is about young children.

[philosophie_en_rose]

31. And you're wrong again.

The very nature of the internet is an age limit. A kid must be fairly literate to be lured by an internet predator. However, a child of any age can be lured through the internet.

And, your insinuation that teenage girls go off because they're stupid is victim-blaming nonsense.

[El Fuego]

41. I was a teenage girl myself.

I know whereof I speak.

[LisaL]

35. So, WTF are you saying?

If some creep lures a 13 year old to run off, it's her own damn fault?

[salin]

39. under twelve... interesting cut off

I would most certainly consider someone preying sexually on a 12 year old as a pedophile.

[AngryAmish]

43. There is a semantic difference

(This is from memory and if I am wrong please correct me).

A "pedophile" is an adult person who gains sexual pleasure from pre-pubescent children. These true pedophiles are much more likely to abuse children of both sexes.

An "ephebophiliac" is an adult who like post-pubescent yet not fully mature folks. These people tend to stick to one gender or the other.

So, it is possible not to be a "pedophile" yet still have an improper orientation.

[no name no slogan]

14. It happens, but not as much as the media leads us to believe

Most violent crimes happen between people who know each other. Stranger-on-stranger crime is NOT running rampant, no matter what TV news says. In fact, violent crime all around has been on a steady decline over the past 30 years.

Does molestation and kidnapping still happen? Of course it does. But it's not nearly as common as Inside Edition and the nightly news would have you believe.

[Maddy McCall]

16. Your whole premise is wrong. Predators don't send genital shots to...

lure kids. They worm their way in.

They find weak kids to lure, and they lure them by talkingto them on a kid's level about things the kids enjoy doing, earn their trust and create distance against the kid's own parents, and then eventually offer to meet them at McDonalds for a burger.

Once they've gained the trust of the kids, it's all over.

Internet predation is going on. In my state, under a Democratic governor, the Democratic AG instituted a division for handling NOTHING but internet crimes against children. I was involved with the state at that time, and the AG brought several of his assistants to discuss it with us. They told us that the division was created because of the need for it, and then they told us about the arrests/cases that proved the need for it.

[El Fuego]

19. Not my premise, that was on Dateline

You're right, what they really try to do is infiltrate the kid's world and act like their pal. On the Dateline show they portray it as prostitution-style sex hookups.

[Maddy McCall]

21. That's disgusting, isn't it?

Have you ever been to that Perverted Justice website? It's disgusting and sobering at the same time.

[El Fuego]

22. Perverted Justice is aptly named

I just checked out the site. While I believe in what they are doing, what purpose does it serve to post the full transcripts of the sex chats? They are just providing titillating online content to promote traffic at their site.

It's almost like child-pornography in the guise of law enforcement.

[Maddy McCall]

23. That's EXACTLY what I think about it.

I think the people doing the busts actually enjoy the disgusting chats.

[El Fuego]

24. You know they do.

And now NBC has legitimized them to grab the ratings--there's just something WRONG about it.

[philosophie_en_rose]

32. It can be prostitution-style sex hookups.

Usually with some lowlife parent behind it.

Google is your friend.

[bridgit]

40. it can be, "if your parents don't understand you (fill in the blank)"...

hookups, as well: preying on low self esteem, perceived disenfranchisement, need to belong, etc...very sad stuff :cry:

[Whoa_Nelly]

25. IF cyber predation is NOT a problem, then why

are there laws already in place to protect chidren from these predators?

FYI: Take a look at this site--facts/info

http://tinyurl.com/a27kw

<snip>

FACTS ABOUT INTERNET EXPLOITATION

1 in 5 child Internet users have received unwanted sexual solicitations yet only 1 in 4 have told a parent**

1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually victimized before they reach adulthood. {b]Less than 35% of these sexual assault cases are reported*

*According to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
** According to the U.S. Department of Justice


Other:

http://tinyurl.com/8v5ok
Use of the Internet to entice, invite, or persuade a child to meet for sexual acts, or to help arrange such a meeting, is a serious offense (18 U.S.C. 2425).

It is a federal offense to use a misleading domain name on the Internet with the intent to deceive a minor into viewing material that is harmful to minors, regardless of whether the material meets the legal definition of obscenity (18 U.S.C. 2252B).

[El Fuego]

28. There's no correlation between those two statements

Fact 1: 1 in 5 have received Internet sexual solicitations
Fact 2: 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually victimized.

The juxtaposition of these statements is to lead you to believe that the children are sexually abused BECAUSE of the internet. In fact, the statistics are unrelated. It is misleading, specious reasoning designed to over-dramatize the situation.

But in reality there are sexual predators, there are cyber predators, hence the laws. The world is a bad dangerous place. But it is not as dangerous as we are led to believe by the media.

[undeterred]

27. The first time I saw the show I thought it was shocking

Of course you can only use your imagination to know the full story of what was said, and what might have happened if the two people actually got together.

I think a lot of parents are naiva about the internet, and children are naive about their own vulnerability to adult strangers. They expect people to be truthful and to be who they say they are.

I think the show is sensational and it made me sick to see they were running the same story last night. After all, there could be pedophiles watching television who never thought of this until they saw it on dateline!

I don't have children, but if I did I'd sit down and tell them about this and watch their internet activity carefully.

[ET Awful]

29. You're right, no pedophile has ever used the internet to rape a child

http://www.dangersofinternetdating.com/internetcrimelinks.htm

Nope, never happens:

http://newsblaster.cs.columbia.edu/archives/2002-05-22-08-59-15/web/summaries/05_22_02_23.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2969274.stm

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1998/08/25/loc_inet25.html

http://www.lapdonline.org/releases/2000/05/juv5.htm

http://www.ainews.com/Archives/Story3046.phtml (this bastard did it live on a webcam and used as his defense that he thought his 14 year old victim was 20).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/31/national/main510739.shtml

Pay particular attention to cases like that of Christina Long, maybe you'll learn what's really happening out there.

[El Fuego]

34. I don't think of teenagers as "children"

Though maybe they technically are.

[salin]

36. not much difference between 14 and 12

in my book. Also a lot of sixteen and seventeen year old girls may "act" mature - but emotionally are still developing and are still vulnerable. I get a little nervous when folks (not suggesting you are doing this) make the suggestion that a girl the age of fifteen/sixteen can make adult decisions about a much older male - very often after any said "involvement" this winds up with a kid who has some real baggage that gets carried forth for a lot of years.

[El Fuego]

46. My definition of "pedophile"

is someone who is unnaturally attracted to pre-pubescent children. If a man is attracted to a sexually mature 16 year old girl, I don't think it's true pedophilia in a pyschological sense. But he would be a pedophile from a legal standpoint.

I don't think 15/16 year olds can make mature decisions. But unfortunately they might be actively seeking sex/romance/excitement on the internet.

[salin]

49. Agreed - 15/16 some can be seeking something

I would guess romance/thrill/acceptance, and in this makes some very vulnerable.

I would disagree with prepubescence per the definition - going after 12, 13, 14 would hit me in the same way. I think the effect on those slightly older is also often diminished. When I finally came to terms with my own rape (happened at 20, but didn't deal with it for many years) I was astounded by the number of friends who had been molested and raped - some by family members but others by individuals "accepted" by the family. This was in years long before the internet - knowing these stories of how different folks were able to get access, I can fully get how for some predators the net makes it that much easier.

I seriously doubt the implication on Dateline of a conversation that leads to a sexual set up. More likely is a conversation over time where the predator plays to the insecurity of the child/teen and plays to that insecurity to build trust, before setting up some sort of meeting to set in motion an opportunity to do damage.

[LisaL]

37. Dateline show, to which you apparently object,

was not about six year olds either. If the kid can't write, then internet is obviously not going to work. But that goes without saying.
:eyes:

[ET Awful]

48. Legally, in most states, the penalty is for lewd acts with a minor under

the age of 14 (or 15 in some states).

The difference between 12, 13 and 14 is very minimal.

[philosophie_en_rose]

30. Get Real: It happens.

Your whole post indicates a lack of understanding. :eyes:

Choosing to ignore reality doesn't change it.


http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?s=825248

http://www.lapdonline.org/press_releases/2001/01/pr01008.htm

http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-34739_34811-65927--M_2003_4,00.html

http://www.ice.gov/text/news/factsheets/cybercrime.htm

[salin]

33. I have been hearing items in the news for at least the past eight years

more often it is as Maddy describes upthread - the person worms their way into trust with the kids and pursues it for awhile before going for a meet. Then, because a "relationship" has been established - the perp acts much in the way happens with pedophiles with victims known to them - in the sense of lulling into a sense of obligation, guilt and fear of reprecussions if telling.

Perhaps rather than going on and on with the sting the story would have been better to look at some real cases and the MO of the perps - as it would better educate parents rather than just set off the 'fear-alarm'.

[bridgit]

38. i seen that Dateline piece, and it smack't of entrapment; but there...

is little doubt that kids are being lured on the web, i think that much is known as flat-out truth

[bettyellen]

47. a neighbor was arrested this way.....

thought he had a boy meeting him at a hotel room, and he had brough twith him toys and candy and a rape kit.

[salin]

58. how creepy

and so very close to home. Ugh.

[hickman1937]

50. Why is it always little girls?

Are all pedophiles men?

[NMMNG]

56. Most of them are

Female pedophiles are rare according to most research/statistics (something like 1-3%).

http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/sexualassault/pedophilia_and_child_sexual_mole.htm

http://www.stopchildmolestation.org/pages/study3.html

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050321-123042-6669r.htm

[Redstone]

51. It does happen. The show may have been sensationalist, but that

does not mean it doesn't happen.

Redstone

[CanuckAmok]

53. dateline is terrible "news/current affairs" programming.

It's the National Enquirer of evening news. 20/20 is just as bad.

[RPM]

55. i am right now!

oh, wait. no, i am not.... nevermind...

:evilgrin:

[HEyHEY]

57. What they DO is trick the kids into meeting them

Not always by telling them it's going to be sexual.

[Ohio Joe]

59. Out here in Ohio

The police have run a number of internet stings to catch pedophiles over the last year or so. They go into childrens chat rooms and pretend to be children, when approached they go along and agree to meet. If I recall correctly, there have been three arrest made this way in the last year or so. Maybe not a lot but I don't have any problem with their method or results.

[Nikia]

60. There have been a couple of cases in my area

I don't have links, but I remember reading about them over the past couple of years. These cases involved 12-14 year olds. In one, the mother was charged with something too because she helped arrange it. In another, the girl's little brother called the police because he was concerned about the older man and his sister. In another, the girl had arranged to meet the older man but decided that perhaps it wasn't a good idea and brought the police with her to the arranged meeting place.

[Evergreen Emerald]

61. My friend's 11 year old daughter fell in love on the internet

with a person who pretended to be an 11 year old male that she met through a child's gaming room. He had sent her letters and they talked of meeting. When we found out about it we called the feds and found out the person was from Florida and an adult and they had been watching him.

This 11 year-old girl bought his load of crap and was so much in love. He talked her into keeping it a secret from her family.

Believe me. There are predators out there who use the internet to lure little kids.

[DarienComp]

63. when i was 15 and in the closet...

i used the internet to chat with other closeted gay teens. there was the occasional adult troll that came into the chat rooms looking for sex; we always told them to fuck off. Then they would accuse us of "ageism" and leave. :eyes::puke:

There are lot of unsavory characters on the internet.

[Evergreen Emerald]

64. It sounds as if you were savvy enough to avoid them

They look for vulnerability and unfortunately not everyone tells them to fuck off.

[DarienComp]

65. this is all too true

I knew of one kid who got lured into it, not a happy story.