Were you in a fraternity in college?

[Squatch]

Poll question: Were you in a fraternity in college?

If so, which one?

I was in Pi Kappa Phi at the University of Washington

[kmla]

1. Yep. Sigma Tau Gamma. n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Alpha Sigma Phi at American University

I'll get my popcorn ready and just wait for someone to come by and call us all patriarchal rapists. :popcorn:

[Squatch]

3. The day is still young, my friend...

Wait for it...wait for it...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. Right on time - there it is

[freethought]

4. No. Fraternities were not a big deal.

I went to UMASS, Amherst. There are a number of fraternities and sororities there and students did pledge them but generally students did not consider them a big deal. I do keep hearing that in western and southern schools, frats and sorority houses are taken very seriously. To each his own, I guess.

I do remember one of the frats on campus was busted for operating an illegal bar. You could see the cops hauling out keg after keg after keg after keg.
I think the house is now for Jewish students.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

6. I went there for a year!

When were you there and where did you live?

[ET Awful]

5. Didn't go to college, closest I've been to college is waiting for a bus

at Harvard Square :P

[LaraMN]

7. No. That would've cut into my smoking and copulating time.

I had tight priorities.

[MadHound]

8. Lord no, why would I join an organization that

Is racist, homophobic and intolerant of anything outside their little cookie-cutter, networking world. Frankly I despised the Greek system, and still do. I realize that many good people have been in frats, but sadly I think many more assholes were a product of the Greek system.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. Because you're just as closed minded and hateful, obviously.

Seems like you'd fit right in.

[Squatch]

12. What's that I hear?

*SNAP*

[MadHound]

14. Yeah, right pal

I go around beating up people because I think that they're frat members, or start drunken riots, or proudly display my little trophy of hating frats, a KA cannon out on the front yard. Yeah, whatever, getting a little too defensive there pal?

Look, I've lived in a college town all of my life, and have attened a number of different colleges, either as staff, or student. My wife has done the same, and upon consideration of that evidence, along with much more that has been written down over the years, I think my conclusion is pretty damn valid.

Are you going to deny the racist tendencies of the KAs, who proudly display a cannon in front of their various qualifying houses in order to show that they've never had an African American pledge? Are you going to deny the various drunken riots at MU, MSU, ISU, etc. etc, that were started by, and took place in their respective frat rows? Are you going to deny that the majority of fraternities give their members an advantage over other students via test banks and special tutors, yet dispite that, many frats barely manage to graduate their members? Are you going to deny that many gay people get the shit kicked out of them by frat members, simply due to the fact they're gay?

Look, I realize that there are many frats out there that don't fit this mold, especially among the service oriented fraternities. But your social frats, the typical Greek system that is prevalent on our nations' campuses is little more than an elitist, RW, haven for the haves and have mores children in order to propel them into the "right" circle of friends, and to cover up their many excesses. I think that it is high time to do away with these elitist insitutions, and let the sons of privelege do their own school work for a change, and level the playing field for all college students.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. Not only will I deny pretty much everything you said

But I'll also note that every other fucking college kid does it too. It's just harder to group them when they don't do it themselves. Of course, you're too hatefully ignorant to ever acknowledge such a thing.

[MadHound]

23. Hey, denial ain't just a river anymore

And somehow I doubt that every other fucking college kid has a cannon on the front lawn of their dorm in order to proudly show off how racist they are. I doubt that every other college kid has access to test banks, tutors and other little "edges" to help them get ahead in college. The social fraternities(and sororities) have a much higher rate of drinking than the rest of the campus population, leading to many, many problems, including rape. In fact it has been shown that members of social fraternities are one of the top two groups on campus most liable to commit sexual assaults(athletes being the other one)<http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/Readings/Fraternities.html>
In fact to the very high rate of drinking at social fraternities, one third of a house's cost go directly towards liability insurance, due to the high number of deaths from alcohol poisoning, assault, and hazing.

You vehemous attack is telling as it is wrong. Every other colleg student does not commit these sorts of crimes with the frequency of social fraternity members. Go do some Googling and you will find that study after study will back my assertions up. What is the real shame though is how fraternity members are able to go either unpunished or under punished simply due to who they are, who they are related to, and what social class they belong to. Their mommies and daddies bail them out with lots of cash and high powered lawyers, and the kid, not having learned his lesson, goes on to commit his next criminal act.

You can blast me, you can attack me personally, but time and again the studies and facts back me up. I'm sorry that the truth hurts, but there it is. Perhaps if you would take of those glasses of fond fraternal nostalgia for a minute and look around, you'll see what the rest of us have known for a long while.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

25. If you can prove ANY of what you said, be my guest.

But you can't. It's all total bullshit. Bring me your studies and facts. You have fun doing that and I'll wait here laughing at your ignorance.

[MadHound]

40. LOL Vash, I love a challenge, especially if it's an easy one

<http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/jhamlin/3925/Readings/Fraternities.html>
<http://www.msu.edu/~hearshen/hearsh07.htm>
<http://www.azrapeprevention.org/abstracts/athletes.htm>
<http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CTG/is_1_18/ai_96267469>(Ooo dude, frat boys only 25% of the campus population, but committing 63% of the sexual assaults)
<http://alcoholism.about.com/od/college/a/blnida050918.htm>
<http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/db/issues/99/10.08/view.schwartz.html>
<http://radgeek.com/gt/2001/11/06/virulent_racism>
<http://www.dailytexanonline.com/media/paper410/news/2002/09/30/Opinion/Viewpoint.Racism.Lingers.In.Stillwater-498689.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.dailytexanonline.com>
<http://www.qrd.org/qrd/media/books/1998/out.on.fraternity.row-10.09.98>
<http://www.etext.org/Politics/AlternativeOrange/1/v1n2_wfcs.html>
<http://www.themaneater.com/article.php?id=22628>

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. By the by, if you want to verify the cannon story, go ask an old line, old school KA alum. KA is an Old South fraternity, and they've really never changed, they've just become a little less obvious.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

42. I'll just take the abstract from the first one from you

These findings showed that some fraternity or athletic team members are more likely to commit sexual assault than males in the general student population, but this is not true for all such groups

You might actually want to read over some of your sources before you declare yourself a winner.

[MadHound]

46. Not declaring myself to be anything friend,

Just providing information to back up my point. And if you note, in the first cite, yes, they said some fraternities, namely the social fraternities, which is what we've been discussing. And yes, I did indeed read the other sources, did you?

Sorry friend, but the sad truth is that members of a social fraternity are more likely to commit all manner of crimes, and worse receive less harsh penalties because of who they are, and who they know, than the rest of the student population. I do realize that many frats are trying to do something to change these matters, but it is going to take a long while and a lot of effort.

Perhaps this all comes as a suprise to you, but it has been a well known fact for a long while. Perhaps now that you know the scope of the problem you will dedicate at least some of your efforts to correcting this appalling situation.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

47. Considering I didn't witness a single thing you ever spoke of

and went to school who's greek gpa was well above the rest of the university's, there is no appalling situation to correct except the one of you speaking completely out of your ass.

[MadHound]

48. You are so funny friend

And apparently you were in a frat that was an exception, here:
<http://ogb.wfu.edu/pdf/2002-03/10-31-02/A1.pdf#search='fraternity%20gpa%20below%20average%20study'>Note the other frat related artice on how the Sig Eps dodged criminal charges. Like I said, who their family is, who they know.
<http://pacer.utm.edu/565.htm>
Binder, R. S. (1997). The environmental influences on academic achievement in fraternities. Doctoral dissertation – University of Georgia. Dissertation Abstracts International,: A fine study that backs up my point that social fraternities suffer from a lower GPA than the general male population of a given university.

And what is truly sad about all of this is that fraternities have resources that aren't available to the average student, test banks, notes, tutors, etc. And yet:shrug:

And while you didn't personally witness any of this activity, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I've given you plenty of resources to verify these matters, yet you're still paddling up that river, De Nial. Truly sad.

I'm sorry that I have to be the bearer of the harsh truth, but there it is. Perhaps if you would take those blinders off and look around, talk to people other than your frat brothers, then perhaps you will realize that frat life isn't the rosy picture you seem to think it is. For those on the receiving end of these little "antics", fraternities are nothing more than booze fueled gangs from hell who due to their attitude of outrageous entitlement think that they can and should get away with everything, from assault, to rape, to riots, to death. You may have fond memories of frat life, but the rest of us think that social frats are, for the most part, dens of assholes.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

56. Not just me, my whole school

And apparently every DUer in this thread except you. Funny that.

[MadHound]

57. Gee for somebody with such a great GPA

You sure as hell aren't making much sense. "Not just me, my whole school" What? Did what? Are what? Geez, speak plainly please.

But if you're still going on about how "great" social frats' GPAs are, then I refer you the above resources. If you're still trying to refute my contention that social frats are full of binge drinking, racist, homphobic, criminal thugs, again, I refer to the links I provided upthread.

You got a good GPA, great, glad to hear it, there are exceptions to every rule. But in general, it has been shown that social frats' GPAs are lower than the comparable non-Greek male college student. By the by, what was your GPA? What was your major?

Please, slow down, write for comprehension.

[Rabrrrrrr]

61. Our fraternity, in the four years I was in it, had the highest GPA

on campus every semester, higher than the independants. In fact, the independents were usually in the middle of the ranking of the 15 frats and sororities and the independants.

And no one died in our fraternity, or in any on campus, in the five years I was in college (it is a five year college, lest you think I added a year because of my fraternity experience causing me to need another year). No one was raped, and I don't remember any crimes, other than underage drinking and some drug use, happening in our fraternity, and these are crimes that were being committed by the independants as well.

And let's see - we had whites, asians, and african-americans, so not sure where the racist accusation comes in.

We had gay members, so not sure about the homophobic.

Criminal thugs? I think not. So far as I know, none of us have served time, or even gone to trial, for any "criminal thug" behavior. We all have jobs.

All we can really say is that some frats are obnoxious white upper crust racist shitholes (we had one of those); and some frats are wodnerful, amazing places of camaraderie (mine and few others were); and most, like any organization, just fit the general population of kind of normal, kind of assholy, but not really anything different or unique.

And just in case you ask, I graduated with a 85% (a B) and a degree in electrical engineering, earning 184 credits in 9 semesters.

[democracyindanger]

26. Yeah, they're like wife-beating NFL fans

Studies show that domestic violence incidents spike on NFL Sundays, because NFL fans take out their frustrations on their spouses.

Nice sport you've got there, bunch of wife-beaters. And all the drunken fights. The NFL just promotes drunken wife beating. Why you would want to associate with wife beating drunks is beyond me, but I guess you have your reasons.

[Patiod]

35. Which is also nonsense

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/superbowl.asp

[democracyindanger]

37. Don't get me started on MLB fans

[Patiod]

39. Scary, scary group!

:scared:

Bunch of evil, dog-kicking loonies! And Phils fans are particularly scary!

/sorry, my sarcasm detector went off on your previous post, but made the mistake of ignoring it

[JVS]

11. Phi Beta Kappa!

[bbernardini]

13. Yes, KIND OF. Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, a music fraternity.

I do believe there's at least one other brother on DU. :) We weren't a member of the "Greek Council", but I don't think we wanted to be associated with them anyway. We were like the other fraternities in some ways (we could put the drink away with the best of them), but different in others (did a lot more for charity and promoting culture in the region, and we were about the least racist and homophobic group on campus).

[swimboy]

19. Once a Sinfonian

always a Sinfonian.

:hi:

[Wapsie B]

60. Once a Sinfonian

always a Sinfonian.......

There's at least one other brother on the board that I can think of off the top of my head.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. No, but as a formerly cute girl I got invited to a few frat parties.

[Patiod]

17. I was a Little Sister at TKE

Our sororities didn't have houses, but the fraternities did, so the girls were stuck living (and eating) in the dorms for 4 year. We got to eat at the TKE house one night a month, and any weekend we wanted to. Better food than the dorms. Plus they all slept in a big rack room, so their "bed" rooms were amazing -- wet bars and wine racks and big comfy chairs and big TVs with cable. When I was a senior, I spent a lot of Saturday nights watching movies up in the rooms, then I'd go back to the dorms or out to the bars while the guys went downstairs to hit on Freshmen.

The guys were really good to us, but I got a frightening view inside their perverse minds, and so I wouldn't date any of them. Couldn't get any other dates at the house, either, or the hazing would be brutal. When a handsome visiting University of Nebraska TKE cheerleader, who looked exactly like Tom Selleck, walked me home from a TKE party one night after a football game, I got a raftload of abuse the next day:
"Hey Patiod, d'you hop that Husker?"
"No, he walked me home, said goodnight, and came back to the party."
"Oh, so he was gay?"

Squatch - my sorority hung around with the Pi Kapps at Penn State.

[xmas74]

53. More in common!

I was a TKE Rose too. My big bro became the campus president and eventually named a Top TKE.

[DanCa]

18. I am not a joiner . Never have been, never will be. (nt)

[Taverner]

20. Phi Sigma Kappa - Oregon State

[AngryAmish]

21. Evans Scholar

Non-greek co-ed fraternity. Plus they paid for school.

[TheMightyFavog]

22. Well, Most students are a member of one particular fraternity...

Tappa Kegga Bru. :beer: :beer:

[democracyindanger]

24. Sigma Phi Epsilon

Should have known you were a Fusky.

[Squatch]

27. Don't tell me...you're a Coug.

[democracyindanger]

28. Cougs aren't even worth hating.

Go Ducks.

[Squatch]

29. How does the saying go?

I'd rather eat Beaver than f**k a Duck...or something along those lines?

On another note...I *really* miss Central Oregon, especially around the Redmond/Bend area.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. No, No, A Million Times No

I had no interest at the school from whom i received my bachelor's. The greeks were annoying twits. I had no reason to join and share a personality. I had one of my own.
The Professor

[Squatch]

31. So did I. They called me "OT"

...short for "Out There".

[FuzzySlippers]

32. Does Phi Beta Kappa count?

:shrug:

[Squatch]

33. Sounds Greek to me.

[JVS]

34. It sure the hell does. Welcome sister! Big Kegger at the house this...

weekend.

[FuzzySlippers]

43. Hi Brother JVS!

:toast: Alpha of Iowa here. How about you?

[JVS]

44. Xi of Pennsylvania

:toast:

You should start a thread up so that our brothers and sisters can join our revelry. Maybe we can even find some noobs for hazing!

[JVS]

45. And never forget: Tau Beta Pi sucks ass!

[Misunderestimator]

50. My mom was a phi beta kappa.

[JVS]

62. Then she rocks!

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. Kappa Kappa Gamma. But it was a waste of time and money.

[flamingyouth]

38. Zeta Tau Alpha.

University of Washington. :hi:

[Jokerman]

41. GDI all the way.

As in God Damned Independent.

[Misunderestimator]

49. No fraternities or sororities where I went... thank god.

[Patiod]

51. Alpha Sigma Alpha sorority

Loved it.

[xmas74]

52. Hey Alpha Sig!

I almost pledged the same sorority. I went w/ Alpha Xi Delta instead (in hindsight a bit of a mistake).
I loved the sorority life too.

[Patiod]

54. What school? ASA isn't at all that many schools

outside the Northeast and Midwest...

Oddly enough, I preferenced AZD!

[xmas74]

55. It's in the Midwest.

Missouri Valley College. And AZD is no longer allowed on campus d/t hazing and underage drinking. But our president really rocked! She was the reason I pledged AZD in the first place.

[Left Is Write]

58. No. I'm a woman.

:P

Aside from that, there were no Greek societies (nor any exclusive groups) allowed at the college I went to.

[trof]

59. Me and George I and George II: Dekes (Delta Kappa Epsilon)

The shame of it all.
:-(