What is up with the upside down US flags as icons? I think thats offensive

[coldiggs]

. And I realy think it gives ammo to necons who say that liberals are un Patriotic.

[no name no slogan]

1. ....

:popcorn:

[KitchenWitch]

102. Yup

Pass sumadat ovah here!

[Left Is Write]

105. Hey!

I can't have popcorn - I had a root canal this afternoon.

There must be something I can snack on while I watch...

[KitchenWitch]

108. Here

Will these do?

[Left Is Write]

110. LOL!

Those ought to be safe enough until I get my crown build-up. Until then, no popcorn or nuts!

(Now I'm going to crave Old Dutch!)

[KitchenWitch]

112. Sorry!

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

127. Pats couch...moves over a bit...

[Crazy Guggenheim]

121. I got here late. How you doing?

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[skygazer]

2. Do you know what an upside down flag means?

[LostinVA]

57. Apparently not, because then they wouldn't show their

ignorance by saying this.

Anyone notice that someone posts this same exact thing every few weeks? Bait or ignorance/stupidity? Hmmm.... joined two days ago.....

[qnr]

69. Yeah, true - however, giving the benefit of the doubt, if they joined

two days ago, there is a good chance that they had never seen that particular avatar before (not everyone lurks for years like I did). Not saying that is the case, just a possibility.

[Floogeldy]

3. It is a signal of distress

And God knows we have that in our country.

[China_cat]

46. Not just distress

it's a signal that wherever it's flown is under attack.

Totally fitting.

[Fenris]

4. Um...wow.

:wtf:

[Caution]

An upside-down flag is a signal of distress

It means that the US is in danger. It is a VERY patriotic way of expressing one's feelings about the manner in which we are governed.

[coldiggs]

6. oh sorry i thought it was like burning it

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GirlinContempt]

10. Oh come on now

we all do that when we *think* we know what something means.

[ghostsofgiants]

18. Jumping to conclusions is one of your greatest political institutions

Why do you hate America?

[4dsc]

15. How many times you going to repeat that??

What you thought and what's correct are two different things..

[Misunderestimator]

40. It's more like something an adult would understand.

Give it some time.

[anarch]

49. zing!

Also, I like your new avatar :D

[SlavesandBulldozers]

51. ..

:spray:

[coldiggs]

5. Wait sorry am I wrong. Isnt an upside down flag like secound to burning it

[Caution]

9. No, it isn't in any way similar

Though personally I think that we as Americans have every right to burn the flag in protest as well. It's called freedom and it is what being an American is all about.

[Floogeldy]

13. I have no problem with flag burning.

Unless, of course, it is my flag and I do not want it burnt at that particular time. ;)

[coldiggs]

14. I think they should have the right to do it but it is still a disspicable

act.

[Floogeldy]

17. Flag burning is not despicable.

Invading a country that has not attacked you, based on lies, and killing 100,000 innocents is despicable.

Gutting the EPA is despicable.

Funneling the entire treasury to fucking pharmaceutical companies and Halliburton is despicable.

[skygazer]

Poor spelling is despicable

Referring to your supposed fellow progressives as "they" is despicable.

:popcorn:

[BikeWriter]

88. Damned right, Pard.

[puerco-bellies]

55. I think that flag-burning should be mandatory

It should be inflicted on anyone who wraps themselves with one.

[SofaKingLiberal]

70. uh

:rofl:

[tavalon]

128. Very witty reparte

Me like!

[qnr]

56. Technically, burning a flag is also a sign of respect. How do you think

they dispose of worn flags?

[LostinVA]

59. Yeah, like the tattered ones on car antennas?

Flown by "patriots" ignoring the flag code.

[driver8]

63. That drives me absolutely crazy!! This woman that takes care of

my wife's grandmother had one of the worst tattered flags I had ever seen. I finally told her, "I know you are patriotic and flying the flag is important to you. However, flying a flag that looks like that is one of the most disrespectful things you could do to the American Flag. If you are going to fly it, please fly one that looks good -- not a tattered one like the one you have."

The next time I saw her, she had a new flag.

[LostinVA]

66. I know, it drives the old Girl Scout in me nuts

My grandfather, the ex-lighthouse keeper, Coastie, and Naval veteran of three ways sometimes even rips them off antennas. I really hope no one will beat up an 87-year-old man.....

[qnr]

73. OT-but that's one thing I really regret, never getting to be a lighthouse

keeper

[LostinVA]

101. Per the Coast Guard, he's the last "real" keeper alive

He gets interviewed for articles and documentaries sometimes, and was honored at a dinner a few years ago. He eats it up!

My grandmother's brothers were all crabbers when my grandfather was a keeper in the DElaware Bay, and they used to take her out to the "light ship" on weekends. They were married, of course, and it was completely against regs, of course!

[qnr]

114. of course :)

Bravo for him!

[driver8]

75. Good for him!! I like that idea! Maybe I will start doing that, as well.

I'm a navy vet, too and those tattered flags are a disgrace.

[LostinVA]

100. And sometimes he starts yelling about fighting

in the Pacific when people look at him. It's kinda funny in a way, because I don't think anyone will take out a really old man.... I hope.

[qnr]

64. That so pisses me off when I see it. Especially with the whole back of

vehicle plastered with patriotic bumper stickers.

[LostinVA]

58. Of course it's not despicable - do you know what that word means?

It means: "Deserving of contempt or scorn; vile."

Democracy and freedom are none of this.

[Scout1071]

74. You may want to study a little military code. Here is the US Flag code

regarding disposal of a flag:

US Flag Code. TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 8(k). It states:

"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning"

[philosophie_en_rose]

83. "disspicable" eh?

Hmm...

[BikeWriter]

86. You must learn to spell if you expect to debate! (IMO)

[we can do it]

104. Spell Check, Please Dude

[Deep13]

25. I comes from maritime use.

It signals a vessel in distress to other ships.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DS1]

11. And people call ME cold

Sheesh

[Fenris]

19. Nonsense. You're delightful and charming!

:D

[Texasgal]

22. You are cold.

:P

[SOteric]

30. He's actually quite warm

when properly heated.

[Crazy Dave]

12. >>it gives ammo to necons who say that liberals are un Patriotic.

Real liberals don't care what brain-dead neo-cons who hide behind the same flag that other liberals died for think.

[China_cat]

47. The NRA isn't exactly liberal

and they recommend flying the flag upside down on July 4th to protest what they see as the potential loss of gun-owning rights.

[swimboy]

16. Wow! I gotta give props for the misspellings!

:popcorn:

[anarch]

20. perhaps this will be useful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Flag#Flag_etiquette

Oh and btw, it includes this:

"When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of the United States, it should be destroyed in a dignified manner, preferably by burning. (Note: Most American Legion Posts regularly conduct a dignified flag burning ceremony, often on Flag Day, June 14.)"

and this:

"The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed, or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard."

I think all those dickheads driving around with tattered remains of "patriotic" flag thingies on their cars are despicable, myself.


edited to add: this has got to be somebody's sock-puppet, right?

[uppityperson]

67. flaggie underwear and swimsuits are disrespectful

handkerchiefs? Blow your nose on the flag! Use it to wipe up your sweat or spilled beer!

[qnr]

94. Isn't that the truth. n/t

[henslee]

122. Yeah and all those cheapo frayed flags are made in China... the irony.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[huskerlaw]

23. What's a necon

and what do they have against free speech?

Perhaps you should join them.

[Lavender Brown]

28. A kind of wafer candy?

:shrug:

[Floogeldy]

42. Necco!

[skygazer]

43. Ooooh, I always loved those things

But why should we worry about what they think?

[huskerlaw]

44. ...

:spray:


:rofl:

[LostinVA]

60. I hate those things

[uppityperson]

68. Neocons in rainbow colors? wow, how, um, librul of them

[ET Awful]

85. If you shop around, you can get rolls of just black ones . . .

They're tough to find, but they exist :P

[LostinVA]

132. Tres interesting... in a weird way

[fujiyama]

113. These things eh?

I never was a big fan of them.

[sniffa]

24. awesome - it's been months since we've had this thread.

thanks for keeping aLive the topic that every american shouLd be on about.

[auntAgonist]

26. welcome to DU coldiggs

Please don't stop asking questions. The ONLY dumb question is .... well you know :)



aA.

[Deep13]

27. My Ohio pennant avatar is upside down.

Can't you tell?

[Shakespeare]

29. Well, welcome and kiss my liberal ass.

An upside down flag symbolizes a country in distress. Are you going to suggest that our country isn't in distress?

[LynneSin]

31. Upside down flag is recognized as a distress symbol

It's in the US Flag Code as such.

This was mainly back a hundred years old so when sailing ships would invert the flag to denote that they were having problems with the vessel. Because it represents distress many americans today use that symbolism to denote distress within our country!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. why are we always so worried about ammo?

dont protect gay rights....that gives fundies ammo

dont protect the right to choose ..gives fundies ammo

drop the idea of universal health care....gives neocons ammo

drop welfare to mothers...gives neocons ammo


let our civil rights be washed up....else fundies will think we are unpatriotic....



better still ...lets all hide in our corners so the neocons and fundies have no ammo

[driver8]

65. That's what I always wonder...and why aren't our leaders using

the ammo provided by the rethugs?? Lord knows that there is plenty of that ammo to go around.

These people are bullies -- stand up to them and they will back down.

[anarch]

33. hey, speaking of offensive flags,

anybody remember this from the Onion?

With the headline, "Georgia Adds Swastika, Middle Finger To State Flag":

[SlavesandBulldozers]

52. never seen that

effing hilarious.

[driver8]

78. Now that's funny! I love The Onion. n/t

[Call Me Wesley]

34. DU has a special feature for people who feel like you do.

It's called 'The Ignore List.'

[LostinVA]

61. giggle

[xmas74]

35. It's a well-known signal of distress.

Our country has been taken over by a very small minority of people who are rewriting every bit of history and are redefining what the Constitution means. Everything that my ancestors fought for when they sided w/ the patriots in the Revolutionary War has been ridiculed.
Our country, our Constitution and our way of life is in distress. Personally, I'm not a big fan of that avatar (chose instead something that easily represents part of my families background) but I understand exactly why some have chosen it on this board.

[peekaloo]

36. Damn Australians!

:crazy:

[I Have A Dream]

37. Oh well, I'm keeping it until MY country is no longer in...

distress. It speaks to my feelings about the state of our country, which I truly love. I am PROUD of my avatar.

You've been here for two days. Believe me, if this offends you, you're going to see LOTS of other things here that you're going to find offensive because we at DU believe in free speech.

Because I believe in free speech, I'm fine with you stating that you're not comfortable with this perfectly-respectable symbol of distress. (Also, if you truly did think that it was disrespectful, I'm glad that you've been able to learn otherwise from this thread.)

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[WilliamPitt]

38. Some light reading for you

http://truthout.org/docs_03/040403A.shtml

Our Flag, Too
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Thursday 3 April 2003

The residents of an unassuming house, tucked away in a quiet corner of a small New England college campus, have found themselves at the center of a disturbing fight for the basic right to express their opinion as Americans. Seven students at 44 Howard Street on the Wheaton College campus, located in the rural community of Norton, Massachusetts, have discovered, with suddenness and fury, how difficult it is today to speak your mind in a nation divided by war.

It started on the day the Bush administration took this nation to war in defiance of the international community and with little, if any, justifiable rationale. The American attack upon Iraq, fraught with all the terrors of American and civilian casualties, spiraling regional hostilities and the surety of reciprocal attacks here at home, convinced these students that their beloved country was in grave danger. The leadership of this nation, and the deadly course they chose, motivated the seven in this small house to make a large statement of disapproval.

And so, on that day, the young men and women of 44 Howard hung an American flag upside-down outside of their house.

There is no question but that this is a loaded symbol. Generation after generation of Americans have saluted this flag, served under it, died under it, and have been wrapped in it when finally delivered to the darkness of the earth or the depths of the ocean. The flag represents, for many Americans, all that is great and true and noble about this nation; it is a snapshot of our idealized hopes and dreams for the country we are and the country we wish to be. Of course, these kids were asking for trouble by doing this. People do not react rationally when confronted with an American flag flying in anything other than an upright, orderly fashion.

44 Howard got trouble, in spades.

Some days after placing the flag on their house in this manner, a truckload of local men pulled up to the front door. This took some doing; the house is not located on any road easily accessible by the main streets of Norton, but is buried in the campus near the central quadrangle. Six men, whose ages ranged from between forty to fifty years old, stormed into the house while two of the residents were there. The residents locked themselves in a room and called campus security, while them men crashed through the house, pounding on bedroom doors and yelling, "Come out, you cowards!" It was clear from their actions that these men intended violence.

Rocks have been thrown through the windows of 44 Howard. Death threats have been telephoned to the house and left on answering machines. Cars from the town of Norton have constantly driven passed the house with passengers screaming threats and insults. A dead fish was strapped to the front door, symbolizing a death threat as per the movie 'The Godfather.' The harassment grew to such a fevered intensity that the residents of the house were ordered by campus security to leave the premises for three days, because their safety could not be guaranteed.

As of this printing, there has not been one arrest made in these matters by the Norton police.

One might feel that the people who have so vigorously attacked the seven Wheaton students have a moral basis for their actions, as it appears on the surface to be a case of righteous and patriotic citizens defending the American flag from desecration. This is not, in fact, the case, because hanging an American flag upside-down is not an act of desecration.

It is an act of desperation, and indeed, of patriotism.

The seven students of 44 Howard have family and friends serving in the war at this moment. They do not wish to see their loved ones killed in an irresponsible act of military adventurism, nor do they wish to see harm done to their own country because of this, nor do they wish to see the innocents of Iraq slaughtered in the mayhem. This is the very definition of patriotism: the defense of family, friends, country and life itself.

The basic message behind an upside down flag is, "Distress. Send Help." The symbolism of the reversed flag began in the nautical realm; sailors at sea in distress would fly the flag upside-down before abandoning ship, or as a signal to other passing ships that they were in dire need of help. More recently, this symbol was used by troops in the field in Vietnam, who flew the flag in reverse to signal their distress over the manner in which they were being used by their commanders and political leaders.

In 2001, the use of the American flag as a symbol of distress was codified in law. U.S. Code, Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8(a) reads as follows:

The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

The war in Iraq presents a dire threat to not only the American soldiers and Iraqi civilians engaged in the fighting, but to American citizens on the home front who will doubtlessly come under terrorist attacks in retribution for the assault upon Iraq. Furthermore, the very fabric of our national ideal is in mortal danger from this war; when said attacks do occur in America, the strictures of Martial Law and the Patriot Act will bring to an end 227 years of Constitutional rule in America.

Distress. Send help.

Combine the clear language of Title 4 with the unambiguous wording of the First Amendment of the Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or of the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The men and women of 44 Howard are well within their rights, and well within the strictures of common American morality, to use the flag as they have. The wretched irony in all of this is that those men who stormed into that house to do violence to these students are, in fact, acting in a manner that would make Saddam Hussein proud. In the guise of defending freedom, they would deny it with clenched fist in a home invasion as disturbing as anything done by the worst stormtroopers in all of history.

There is another irony here, codified in corollary sections of Title 4:

The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.

- Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8(d)

The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.

- Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8(i)

Those patriotic men who saw fit to break into a private home in order to attack the young men and women who live there might, next time, turn their energies upon every cell phone company, every car dealership, a number of clothing manufacturers, every store that sells American flag paper napkins, and all of the myriad businesses from sea to shining sea that whore out the flag to sell their goods in a manner totally in contravention with the strictures of Title 4.

But that would be hard. Seven youths are a far easier target for violent desires wrapped, as it were, in the flag of patriotic zeal.

There is more to all of this than different interpretations of the symbolism of the flag. This is about the very definition of patriotism. It has become all too clear of late that Americans are required to "Support The Troops." This has become a euphemism for supporting the war. If you do not support the war, you do not support the troops and are therefore un-American and possibly a terrorist. This is a scurrilous skewing of rhetoric with one purpose alone: To intimidate dissenters into silence.

Let it be known that those who stand against this attack on Iraq are the brothers and sisters, the wives and husbands, the friends and family and countrymen of those currently serving. When a man or woman puts on the uniform and swears the oath of service, they are taking a leap of faith that their lives will not be spent to no purpose by those who would lead this nation. Let it be known that those who stand against this war believe these men and women in uniform currently serving in Iraq have had that faith betrayed. Those who stand against this war also stand with these men and women, and demand that their blood not be spilled in vain. If that is not "Supporting The Troops," then those words have no meaning at all.

Perhaps the students at 44 Howard should have known better. Perhaps it is not wise to use so powerful a symbol in so tense a time. Those who would attack these young men and women for their beliefs and their speech, however, miss the central issue. We who stand against this war are also Americans. We also love this country. We also honor our veterans. We see our beloved nation charging into the darkness day by day and hour by hour, and no intimidation can break us of our need to speak out loudly and vehemently about this.

It is our flag, too.

[Floogeldy]

45. Bravo!

Excellent!

:)

[Call Me Wesley]

54. Says it all.

Thanks for sharing!

[driver8]

72. Can I sign my autograph on one with a Sharpie?

Like this idiot did?

[BikeWriter]

126. Now that's desecrating a flag!

[Left Is Write]

115. Beautiful.

[pointblank]

129. Wow

Just Wow. :thumbsup:

[tavalon]

134. I did not know all of this in the dark days after 9/11

but what I did know is that all over my country, my city (Austin) and my neighborhood (North Hyde Park - college liberal area) that nationalism was running rampant and that I was horrified. So, I put up a flag holder and I put up an Earth Flag, you know the one, with the whole world floating in the middle of a blue background.

http://www.patriotichouse.com/ph/products/flags/CLASSFLGACC/11242

Sometime within the week, my house was egged. Apparently for the heresy of pointing out that there is more to this earth than just the USofA. Apparently, in that atmosphere, that was treason. I guess I can count myself lucky that what happened to them, didn't happen to me.

[Misunderestimator]

39. HAHAHAHA

Good one! :rofl:

Oh... and what's a necon?

On edit... thanks... I've been trying to decide on a new avatar.

[eyepaddle]

41. I just couldn't resist makin' a change

:popcorn:

[Misunderestimator]

50. Ditto!

:thumbsup:

[eyepaddle]

53. Yeah, I saw your's too

I'd been thinking about making a change, but didn't know what I wanted. This thread TOTALLY answered that! :D

[qnr]

71. heheh n/t

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

62. Why whatever could that be????

[BikeWriter]

95. "I know nutting!"

[Misunderestimator]

76. I find your avatar offensive.

[Sugar Smack]

92. *snort*

:rofl:

[BikeWriter]

96. What is that thing?

[fujiyama]

116. It's Beaker from Jim Hensen's Muppets

nt

[BikeWriter]

123. Thank you. No wonder I didn't know what it was!

[tuvor]

77. You're welcome to your opinion, as I am to mine.

You'll have to develop a much thicker skin on DU if you're offended by someone's idea of what's appropriate.

[baldguy]

79. There's nothing wrong with having an upside down flag.

That's a sign of a person, or ship in distress - and is a perfect metaphor for America's current situation. Likewise with burning it. According to the US Flag Code (yes, there are rules on how to treat the flag) when a flag becomes soiled beyond use, the ONLY proper way to dispose of it is to burn it.

The problem is when people - for whatever reason - intentionally soil, put a mark on or otherwise alter the flag.

[qnr]

80. I almost blew a gasket when I saw that originally n/t

[Fox Mulder]

81. I'm "disspicable".

;)

:rofl:

[ET Awful]

82. Yeth, you are . . .

[Misunderestimator]

87. indooopitubly

[BikeWriter]

84. It is a legitimate sign of distress.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

89. Welcome aboard. I think you'll love your stay

[Cobalt Violet]

90. This will be my avatar until after the Chimpeachment!

I've never seen this country in such distress.

You do realize our current system of government is a fascist dictatorship don't you?

[sadinred]

91. coldiggs, there's a Check Spelling option at the bottom left

of the page when you write a post. See, when someone posts with a lot of misspellings it's assumed that they're...ummm..."just visiting".

Maybe you should read a bit more, get a better idea of what goes on here!! I hate to see anyone get creamed like you did!

Assuming you are NOT "just visiting", welcome to DU.



:eyes:

[Rabrrrrrr]

93. Well, good for you!

I ain't changing mine til the distress is gone.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

Enjoy your time here. And don't you mean "libruls"?

[fudge stripe cookays]

118. No, no no

It's LIE-bruls. Get it right!

[BikeWriter]

97. Go tell the "necons" to quit fucking America. Signed, a Vet!

[qnr]

98. Seconded n/t

[BikeWriter]

99. Thank you, Pard. :-)

[bridgit]

103. i've always thought that it was to mean 'america in distress', and not...

'i am unpatriotic', i mean you know: s.o.s., doesn't mean: 'sell our simians', it's like: Save Our Ship

[qnr]

109. Yeah, but technically, SOS doesn't mean anything :) ... --- ... was just

easy to send and understand in an emergency - the definitions were added later.

[bridgit]

119. that makes the least sense of all, why s.o.s., why not a.b.c., or...

e.e.e., for e.e. emergency :shrug: i mean that's just goofy, talk about random; if my house was burning down, i wouldn't care much for a message that started, 'potted plants 1/2 off @ home depot'

:rofl:

[qnr]

120. heheh, well, as a radioman in the USCG, I must say that ... --- ... is

very distinctive. However, that might be because I learned it was for distress and I was unconsciously looking for it.

[Robb]

106. Welcome to DU!

:D :eyes: :D



:rofl:

[cynatnite]

107. You should be more offended by other things...

like the repukes shitting on our constitution and pissing on our bill of rights. Like lying our country into war and the murder of our troops and thousands of innocents...

Need I go on?

[TK421]

111. Let me be the first to say WELCOME.......

but, sadly....I will not be the first to say GOOD BYE

[LostinVA]

133. *rim shot*

[DanCa]

117. I thought we had freedom of speech?

Oh wait this is Bush's America.

[Robeson]

124. I find people who wrap themselves in the flag offensive.

[gordontron]

125. I always thought it signified how backwards America has become

and backwards doesn't look as cool as upside down, so hence the upside down avatar, but I could be wrong.

[Kali]

130. This is still going?

Wow :o :smoke:

[Mutley]

131. *sigh*

That's it. Everything else has been said.

*sigh*

[TK421]

135. ARE YOU STILL HERE?

:D

[BikeWriter]

137. I think he is.

[TK421]

136. Oh, by the way.....I make a special point of urinating on the American

flag AT LEAST once a week. :evilgrin:

[terrya]

138. Locking

Time to lock...flamey.