DUer's I really need you recommendations.....4 dog lovers

[tvfipp]

This is not a political question however I am so frustrated that I am turning to the great minds of DU for suggestions. Here goes..
My next door neighbor is a cranky old man who lives to make our lives hell.
Within the past 2 weeks he has taunted our Large Dogs with rocks and sticks thrown over our 6' privacy fence. On 3 occasions they became so agitated they dug under the fence to "get after their taunter". In doing so we have had to replace the fence they have destroyed in 3 areas In addition he called the Sheriff to come to our home accusing us of neglect of our pets. (That action was laughed off by the Police Officer).
Yesterday it happened again. This time I held a quiet (pretend) phone conversation out on my pool deck with Sgt. Mike. I never mentioned the situation or my suspicions (I could hear the ol's guy on his screened porch turn off the TV to listen). I told this Sgt. Mike that I thought I had enough information regarding our previous conversations to move forward. Again let me empathize that I never mentioned the dogs, the ol' man or anything relating to the problem.
When my husband returned from work last evening, he went out back to repair the fence. This for aesthetic purposes has to be accomplished from the outside.
Immediately the Ol'man started screaming get off my property - I've called the Sheriff on you!
My husband very calmly said sorry Sir I am on our right away and only want to fix the fence.
Then the Ol' SOB started screaming you think I am the cause of your dogs getting out. My husband said "I have no idea what you are talking about" Then the Ol' Guy started screaming "Your wife thinks I am the one"! Alas, he was ease dropping and felt guilty as hell. Any ideas for your collective great minds? Any people with legal or law enforcement background any thought would be helpful. We have had our dogs since we purchased the home 8 years ago, these ol folks recently purchased their home next to us. I am going insane. I am in the process of installing a CCTV to try to catch the guy but I need more suggestions. My 88 year old Dad that lives with us spent the day in bed sick and dizzy (blood pressure)from trying to perform the physical work of covering the hole caused by this SOB. Please great brains....any suggestions?
Don't hate me for using this forum for this topic, I just have always been impressed with the intelligence of you all....Happy New Year

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

1. beware

if this guy is bad as you say watch out. He may send poison food over the fence. This may be his next manuver to get back at you.

[newswolf56]

10. Self-delete (posted below).

[demnan]

2. One thing I can think of

Put a BEWARE OF DOGS sign on the fence so it is visible from his side. This will give you some clout should the old asshole try anything else to taunt the dogs. Also I would try to get a picture of the man throwing rocks at the dogs. This could be used in court, if necessary.

Don't call the cops, that just makes him worse. He WANTS you to call the cops! Obviously his dementia has taken a confrontational bent. I wouldn't play up to it, I would simply go about my way, but keep an eye on this fellow if you can.

Also I would snap that picture and immediately bring the dogs inside. Don't let them be subjected to cruelty by a demented old man.

[MaggieSwanson]

5. A word of caution...

In Iowa, a "Beware of Dogs" sign has been used as an admission that your pets are vicious. I have a friend who works for an animal rescue group, and she knows all the city codes regarding animal welfare.

I agree with AcmeJack in the previous post - it may be worth your time to contact a local animal rescue group in your area. They have a wealth of knowledge about the local laws. If you cannot find one in the phone book, the Humane Society might be able to give you some numbers.

Your neighbor is abusing your dogs, you are not. If you can collect evidence of his taunting, it will go a long way towards protecting you and your pets.

[pitohui]

15. maggieswanson is right

don't post any signs, you put a big bullseye on yourself legally, get the camera, you are allowed to videotape actions taking outside in public, i would also talk to the animal rescue and find out what attorney they recommend for such cases, there are nat'l groups to protect bird owners and provide legal advice from harassment, such as american association of aviculture, i would assume there is similar for dogs, find out

if the people are new neighbors, they could well have a habit of making themselves miserable everywhere they go, and they could be moving out again in a few months or a year or so, sooner if you can get them on legal charges, so i wouldn't consider selling my own home altho it's tempting when you temporarily have a butthead neighbor

[China_cat]

18. Around here a 'beware of dogs' sign

will lose you your home owners' insurance at the very least.

Is it possible to erect an 8' privacy fence on that side? If the dogs can't see him...and he can't see them...it could do a lot to defuse the situation. A bit pricey but maybe worth it for the peace of mind?

Oh, and I agree about the poison risk. We had it happen to us. A neighborhood kid used to kick the old dog through the fence where she would lie and sleep. As a result, she couldn't stand him and would go nuts whenever he was around. He threatened to kill her and 2 days later she was poisoned. (She survived, btw, due to vigilance by a great vet)

We started then on teaching our dogs food refusal. They take nothing we don't give them and don't eat until we say it's ok. So some extra training might be in order.

[tvfipp]

20. Thanks...our fence

Is 6'(max. allowed by the Property Owners Association)and it is board on board.
They cannot see him nor he see them.
We suspect he just bangs on the fence or pokes something under it.
I am hoping the CCTV will capture this jerk. Happy Freakin Holidays this old Scrooge has provided us. I am so sorry to hear about your poisoning it breaks my heart, thanks for the food refusal idea........I feel stupid not having thought of it before.
I hope I have the time. For now we have sectioned off the yard so he would need to walk around our house and get to them through the other (nice) neighbor's yard.
Yikes!
Anyway - Happy New Year, may all your neighbors be nice.

[China_cat]

21. Don't feel stupid for not thinking of food refusal.

I sure wouldn't have until Vicky was poisoned. It's just so hard to imagine that any one would do that to an animal that considering countering the risk just doesn't even occur.

[acmejack]

3. Call the local ASPCA/Humane Society

Ask for advice from them, they will be able to tell you what response is appropriate based on your local and State laws.

[lonestarnot]

4. Yes, just set up some video equipment in a tree. Get the pics then call

the cops. Have him prosecuted for disturbing the peace, and animal cruelty. Then sue him civally for intentional infliction of emotional distress, and deprivation of peaceful enjoyment of your premises. LOL (not legal advise as I'm not a lawyer). That should cool his jets for a while. He'll be too busy with paperwork to aggravate the dogs.

[carpediem]

6. what is it with nasty ol' neighbors in florida?

We live in florida and we had a couple like this next door to us, but in our case it was our kids they hated. Our kids and all the other kids on the street. They would come barreling down the road and lay on the horn and the kids would run out of the way. they came real close to hitting them several times. Plus he would yell at the kids. We, us and the other street neighbors, had just arranged with the police to come and catch them speeding when all of a sudden they put a for sale sign in their yard and moved elsewhere in the development. We were quite relieved, because we found out that within 1 month of moving he had been involved in a hit and run, where he hit someone, got out of his car and yelled at them, then got back in his car and drove away. We had also caught him watching the kids, 5-8 year old girls, in the pool over his fence, just standing there staring at them. Needless to say, the blinds on his side of the house were never opened while he lived there.

Long story short, be careful, our guy seriously was nuts and it sounds like your guy may be too. I think maybe I would do the cctv to catch him then let the police help you. And the recommendation to call the aspca is a good one as well, or talk to your vet, maybe they know others who have gone through something similar. And do watch out for what he could do next as the first poster recommended. Good luck.

(edited to clarify - not all florida neighbors are nasty, the rest of our neighbors are truly wonderful. I just noticed the op was from florida too and wrote about the coincidence.)

[tvfipp]

11. Thanks

They do say that all the nuts run down hill!
I hope no one was offended but I understand what you are saying. So many of these people are Old alone and frustrated with life ingeneral.
They forget hot to "live and let live".
I am thrilled to hear that your problem moved, if we can only be so lucky.

[pitohui]

16. many older people suffer from dementia

unfortunately dementia often affects the personality first & turns the person into something nasty and horrible, it is sad & scary if you have it in yr own family

as florida has a high pop. of retirees, it is going to have a high percentage of dementia, half over 85 have alzheimer's and many people have symptoms for years before they're diagnosed, ronald reagan being our most famous example

it is sad what the disease does, but the neighbors shouldn't have their dogs abused over it, that's for sure

[zalinda]

7. Just a guess

I'm guessing that it all started innocently. He walked into his yard and the dogs barked at him. He banged on the fence to try to get them to be quiet and the dogs reacted more violently. He then threw rocks to threaten them, and to try to get them to stop barking and it made it even worse.

I know that it is REALLY hard to talk nice to someone when you've had things escalate to this level, but maybe it still can be done. Maybe not by the 2 of you, but by your wives. Find out why he is so bothered by the dogs. If there is some way that the situation can be changed so that you are both happy. Maybe even a mediator could come in to tame the flames.

Why am I suggesting this? Because you are in a no win situation. Even IF you FORCE him to stop throwing rocks or riling up your dogs, he could "innocently" harm them with a substance, like anti-freeze. You will have to be outside with your dogs ALL the time they are out in the yard and keep checking your yard for things that shouldn't be in it. You need to stop the escalation, and working out a solution is the only way. Face it, unless one of you moves, it is going to be hell on earth, and at 88 he has all the time in the world to think of nasty things to do, and maybe an "I don't give a shit" attitude to go along with it.

zalinda

[tvfipp]

9. thanks Zalinda but..

I am the wife. We (both hubby and me) have gently tried to speak to this person on several occasions.
Mearly stepping on his lawn or walking to his door would cause such a furvor, I am really afraid what he's do. He and his wife keep themselves barricaded in their house like hermits.
The 88 year old I mentioned is my poor Dad who lives with us and due to this distress caused him to be ill due his high blood pressure.
I want to stop the escualtion, we have done all we can think. Everyone else inour community loves our dogs and us.
WE will not move.

[Dr.Phool]

8. A nice, quiet, serious, personal threat of physical violence

seems to work.

I used to live on a cul-de-sac. I had a double lot at the end of the street with woods and a ravine on my side lot. I have 2 large Golden Retriever mixes. My neighbors loved the dogs, and their kids played with them daily.

An old bastard who lived on the next street, at the corner started raising hell about the dogs not being on a leash. They never went down the street past the next door neighbors house. He started calling the police, and the Councilman saying my dogs were attacking kids, and so on. Never mind there had never been a report of a dog-bite in the neighborhood. He was the kind of guy, who'd stand in his doorway when kids were playing on the street, making sure they didn't step on his grass. And he watched what everyone else was doing with a pair of binoculars.

One day, I stayed home from work with the flu (I normally worked 7 days a week), and just after my wife left for work, the dogs were going nuts in the living room, barking. I went downstairs to see this old asshole throwing a shovel full of shit in my yard. Obviously some dog took a dump in his yard, but it wasn't mine. I let it slide, since i was sick and still in my underwear.

A couple of days later, while I was at work, he came down and started screaming at my wife. I got home and she was crying. I went down to see what the guy's problem was. He got smart with me and ordered me off his property. I very gently, and quietly told him if he ever came down my street again with a shovel of shit, make sure he brings bread, because he's gonna eat it. If he ever speaks to my wife again, I'm going to shove his head up his ass and turn him inside out. If he ever called the cops or Councilman again, I was going to smear him with A-1 Sauce, and feed him to the dogs.

Never heard a peep out of him again.But, whenever i saw him with his binoculars, I made it a point to moon him.

[newswolf56]

12. "Don't call the cops" is the very WORST response possible.

In the parlance of law enforcement, what you want to do is "paper" the situation -- that is, create maximum documentation of the neighbor's viciousness. Thus you should call the cops EVERY TIME there is even the slightest infraction.

Best of all, develop a bond with one or more officers; ditto for the humane-society officers in your area (if indeed there are any).

I would also talk with a lawyer.

Moreover -- and not to be alarming -- but the poster who warned of poison speaks the truth. Alerting the humane society to the possibility your dogs might be poisoned is thus a superb countermeasure.

Depending on whether it is allowed by the law (I did not check your profile to see where you live), a firearm could be very comforting too -- particularly given the possibility (however remote) this neighbor is a genuine maniac -- but DON'T get a gun without first getting the proper training.

Whether you have a firearm or not, ALWAYS report EVERY INCIDENT of the neighbor's hostile behavior: in most jurisdictions, throwing rocks and sticks into someone's yard is vandalism, and throwing rocks and sticks into a yard occupied by dogs is animal cruelty.

At the very least what it sounds like you're up against is a classic example of someone who has a fanatical hatred of dogs -- I recognize the syndrome because there are lots of militant dog-haters here in the Puget Sound area. (A major reason for seeking the services of a lawyer is that many of the most aggressive dog haters are activist cat lovers and can therefore muster substantial numbers and financial support to their causes, whether a neighborhood vendetta or a larger legislative effort: the reason we have such draconian anti-dog laws while cats are allowed to run amok killing songbirds and other small game, with offending cat owners immune from prosecution, and feral cats -- the most deadly predators in North America -- a protected species throughout Washington state).

[tvfipp]

13. Firearm problem in Florida - threatened ? - shoot to kill OK

We live in the crazy State of Florida where if you feel "threatened" it is legal to shoot someone!
Great -huh?
This crazy Ol' man would have no problem shooting us for knocking on his front door or coming within "threatening" range.
I am with you my friend about documenting and calling the police. I am afraid of poisioning. Afraid for my fathers health being exposed to this stree with his medical problems.
Here's the clincher. I had been an Wildlife Medic Volunteeer for years, saving everything from bear to Bobcats.
I do love cats too..........hateful but true, the more I know people the more I love Animals.

[pitohui]

17. do not go to his home, do not threaten him

jeez, i sometimes wonder if there are people on the internet who get their jollies giving advice that will cause endless hell for the receiver of the advice, some of the advice in this thread is downright whack

you are right, trust yr instincts -- you do NOT go on this man's property, you do NOT threaten him which is illegal anyway, do NOT move & give up yr home

call the cops when there is cause to call the cops, get yr photos, if possible, speak to a friendly attorney, since you work as a volunteer w. animals i'm betting you know someone or the vet you work with will know someone

many older people become hateful because it is no longer under their control (early alzheimer's -- they don't understand the world any more & can only make sense of it by assuming everyone is out to get them), therefore threatening or even talking nicely to the old bastard is a waste of time because he can't really hear and process accurately what you are telling him, best is to document, take legal means to protect yrself & family, some alzheimer's victims can go along being hateful asses for years before they're diagnosed, if your actions bring official attention and cause him to be properly evaluated sooner, you may even do the old coot good, his family will then have to take it seriously that they have to control the old cuss

good luck, this is not fun to deal with but i know you can do it

[tvfipp]

19. Thank you very much

Your kind words and common sense mean a great deal. This is just an overwhelming challenge and while I certianly do not agree with many of the recommendations, it I am thankful to everyone in the DU who took their time to offer their suggestions.
Hope you have a very Happy New Year - see ya again soon on DU!

[flvegan]

14. Statute 828.12

States that it's a misdemeanor to torment animals (which would include throwing stones).

Call Animal Services and report him. Them coming to his house should, alone, be enough to get him to stop.