How screwed are you if your car's head gasket leaks?

[davsand]

The "add coolant" light went on last night when I was driving home from kevsand's office Christmas party.

This morning I stopped off to buy a jug of anti-freeze from our mechanic/gas station, and the mechanic says he's worried the head gasket might be leaking. He wants to hook the car up to some kind of "pressure test" next week to ID where the leak is.

He's saying maybe $1000 to fix it and I am sucking air...

This is a 2000 model year Buick, and it has over 100,000 miles on the odometer. Do you FIX something like that or do you just trade off the damn car? Do you put a whole new engine in since the body looks ok?

I have NO freaking clue, and now I am in a panic thinking the stupid car is gonna go into meltdown on the highway some night. Can you DRIVE a car in winter with that stuff going on? Should I just harness up the cat to a sled and make him pull me around instead of driving that car?

I'm hoping the wise and wonderful DU car gurus can offer some help/insight/advice.



Laura

[Gold Metal Flake]

1. Easy, now. Don't panic. Usually, it's just a gasket.

Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of parts that have to come off to get to it.

Question: How long has it been since the last time the "add coolant" light went on (or the last time coolant was added)?

[davsand]

3. It started a while ago.

We were on the highway last winter and the add fluid light came on. When we checked we spotted no evident leaks. We added about a half gallon of coolant and everything was cool until summer.

This summer, same thing--on the highway and the light goes on. I pulled off and looked--yep--it does look low, so I add the remaining coolant that has lived in the trunk since last winter. Everything is A-ok and I drive home.

A couple of months ago, I'm driving to work about about four miles from home and the light goes on. I drive directly to the garage, and the mechanic says, "well, you aren't THAT low on fluid" and he adds about a quart.

I told him that this had happened a couple of times before, and he comments that it is either a slow leak or else a sensor that is going bad. He doesn't spot any leaks either. He tells me to keep an eye on it until I can bring it in for this pressure test...

So last night that light went on again and today I took the car down to him again. You can see it dripping very slowly down where the radiator hooks into the engine.

Am I totally screwed here?


Laura

[Gold Metal Flake]

5. It sound like the interval for adding coolant is lessening?

A slow leak is possibly a small puncture or hole in a hose. Sometimes hoses are a little porous.

A head gasket seldom has a "slow" leak. The head gasket sits between the cylinder head and the block, and seals the common openings between them. It takes the full force of the combustion events. When head gaskets leak, water under pressure may be forced into the crankcase, or combustion gasses can be forced into the cooling system or crankcase or both. Head gasket leaks usually result in more coolant loss than what you are relating.

A slow leak like you have may never show any outward signs, or maybe you find a little drip. At this point, I would treat the drip. A pressure test would not hurt, but I'm not sure I would suspect the head gasket just yet.

Question: There are two largish hoses tht connect the radiator to the engine. One is usually connected from the upper part of the engine to the upper part of the radiator, and the other goes lower to lower. Which hose is leaking?

[davsand]

6. I think it is the lower one.

There is some small metal plate/I-beam type thing that it looks like it is dripping onto...

And it does seem like the interval is getting a lot shorter between the times the dummy light goes on.


Laura

[Gold Metal Flake]

7. Gotta fix that leak.

Might just need a new hose. The cooling sysytem is under pressure when the car is in operation, and coolant will be forced out of any possible path for leakage. I would have the leak fixed, perform a pressure test, and see how that goes.

I would want to go to a shop I could trust. You do NOT want to pay for a head gasket swap you do not need. Good luck.

[leftofthedial]

2. important question

are you laying on your back under the engine compartment, with your mouth open?

'cause then you're really screwed. ;-)

I wish you very good luck. I'm not a mechanic, but that doesn't sound good, but it also could be worse. DU car gurus have really helped me in the past. I bet they can give you great advice. (unlike me)

Good luck!

[davsand]

4. It kinda looks like that green liqueur-doesn't it?

It is that same really bright green...

Cocktails anyone??? :)


Laura

[leftofthedial]

14. a little shaved ice

mmm.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

8. Listen to Opposite Reaction

He's using all the right words, and he's proceeding logically.

What's the engine in that car? Just curious. Five years old and 100K miles isn't enough anymore to talk about getting rid of it, ceteris paribus, as they say.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceteris_paribus

[davsand]

13. It has a 6 cylinder in it.

That is about as much as I know...

The mechanic said today that Buicks have had issues with head gaskets--something about aluminum and iron and flex--I have no freaking idea. I tend to trust this guy--he's done other work for me before, but this really sounded like something pretty bad.

I've got a real discomfort with any mechanic because I am not mechanical by nature and I know I'm probably a wet dream for anybody that is greedy. ("Woo-hoo--its that lady again who doesn't know anything about cars! Get out the deposit slips!!)

I had a guy doing work for me on an another car for a while that just raped me on an Oxygen sensor. He put a new one in and it went bad in about a month. He lost my business when he refused to even talk to me about replacing it because it was either a defective part or incorrectly installed.

I got totally screwed by a Buick dealership with that same old car when the speedometer cable snapped. I was traveling on business and ended up paying for a rental car for three days while they "fixed it." The dashboard never DID fit right afterward...

Anyhow--at least this guy lives here in my town (200 people on a good day) and his business is here--he has a reputation to protect. Thus far he's been just fine. I'm hoping that he's being straight with me.

Thanks all, for your help and advice here. It helps!


Laura

[pokerfan]

9. It's a serious problem but one that has to be fixed

Some tests you can run:
http://www.misterfixit.com/headgskt.htm

[Redstone]

10. Whatever you do, DON"T go to the auto parts store and buy some

gunk or other that promises to seal your head gasket if you dump it into your crankcase or radiator.

None of that crap works. fix the car or sell it; I can't advise what's best, but do one of the two.

Redstone

[TK421]

11. My 1988 Camry leaks coolant AND oil...the mechanic mentioned the

head gasket. I just make sure that all the fluids are topped off and I'm fine. As far as wanting to get it fixed? That depends on how you feel about your car...if it's been relatively trouble-free then go for it. If I had the money, I would fix mine.

[politicat]

12. Get a second opinion.

Ask a friend where they take their car and get that second opinion. From your other posts below, I'd be suspicious about it being a head gasket problem - it sounds more like a leak in the radiator hoses, and if those are 5 years old then it's time to replace them.

There's a reason that the phrase "to blow a head gasket" means to get violently and rapidly angry - that's how a head gasket goes. Slow leaks on heads are rare. With the coolant system under pressure, there are a lot of other places that are weaker and more likely to blow than the head gasket.

Be careful, don't plan any long trips, and take it easy. Get a second opinion, preferably from a shop where you can say, "I'll pay you for your time today to diagnose this, but you're not going to be doing the work. I'm looking for an objective second opinion here." (And 90% of the time, they end up getting my business because the diagnosis from the first shop was BS, based on the fact that I'm a tiny little woman who looks like she's never had her hands in an engine, not realizing that my father made me build my first car.)

[JohnnyCougar]

16. I agree...

It doesn't sound like a head gasket problem to me. Or at least it sounds like there is a better chance of it being something else like a leaky hose. Get a second opinion.

[LSK]

15. its fixable

Has the car ever overheated? Doubtful you will need a whole new engine.

$1000 to fix a car is cheaper than $20000 for a new car.

[BigMcLargehuge]

17. Other ways to tell if you have a head gasket leak -

Look for leaks -

Obvious places to check under the car for leaks is back behind, and around the sides where where the engine sits. If you have a little puddle there try and find the source of the leak. A GM 6 cylinder, even transverse mounted, is pretty small so you should be able to see down the sides. Also run your hand gently over the top of the front suspension. If you have a leak then some will collect in the nooks and crannies there.

If you find a leak and it's within an inch or so of the radiator, it's probably a leak in the radiator itself. Sometimes leaks don't make themselves visible and spring in the area where the radiator itself attaches to the radiator housing.

Change the Oil -

Is there a slick of greenish liquid on top of the drained oil? (You'll have to let the drained oil sit for a while to separate). If so you have antifreeze leaking into your crankcase, and a ruptured head gaskeet.

Smell your exhaust

Is there steam coming out of your exhaust? Does it smell like antifreeze? If there is (and you'd know because it would be a friggin huge white cloud) and it does then you have antifreeze seaping into your cylinders, and a head gasket rupture.

All of these methods are cheap if not free and do not require a pressure test. If you find any of the above a pressure test is good to confirm that there is a head gasket leak.

FYI, the Aluminum/Iron problem (as mentioned by your mechanic) and what it means to you)

If you have an aluminum head (*top part of the engine) and a cast iron block (bottom part of the engine) or vice versa - when you severely overheat, the aluminum is not as resistant to high temperature as cast iron, thus the aluminum part will buckle and warp. That means even with a new head gasket you won't get a tight seal and it will continue to leak. The fix for this usually requires taking the top end of the engine off and milling the cylinder head so that it fits flush against the cast iron block It's expensive because it takes a hell of a long time to get the cylinder head off. It's effective though, but you lose some performances as your upper cylinder head is a little smaller than it should be and that can cause other problems. If you have severely overheated and warped the head, you may have also warped the cylinders themselves, which will also require milling, and the installation of new piston rings, and probably valves (they are aluminum too). Even worse, a severe overheat can crack the side of the cylinder head rendering it useless and irreparable.

But it takes a LOT of heat to do this. And based on your story it doesn't sound like you achieved temperatures enough to warp your cylinders or crack the cylinder head. Hope this helps.

[davsand]

18. It does help. To my knowledge that car has never overheated.

Even when the add coolant light has been on, that car's temperature gage has never been to even the midway point, let alone to any kind of high temp that would produce a "warp core breech" type event. (Star Trek rears its head yet again!)

Based on what you guys are all saying I'm feeling a bit more optimistic about this whole mess. I had visions of the car on life supports with ALL the holiday expenses looming ever closer... The panic was growing ever larger.

Today the panic has started to recede.

I do appreciate the DU community. Where ELSE could you go for news, gossip, advice on a variety of subjects, AND a shared political attitude? I am SO lucky to have ever come here!


Laura

edited for clarity