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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 11:58 PM
Original message
Is anyone else uncomfortable around children?
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 11:59 PM by StellaBlue
What I mean is... let me give you an example.

Where I am currently working, I am the only employee that doesn't have kids. I am 26, female, straight, unmarried, recently separated from my partner of 4 years, feminist, blah blah blah. I am not maternal; I have never had nor have any desire for 'babies', though I am pretty sure I do want children eventually, but because I want children and adult children to share my life with, not because I have any urge for 'babies' (ick). I am not interested in children, generally. They are usually annoying, usually not very well behaved (especially nowdays, no?), and, honestly, I find a puppy far, far more attractive. I don't do baby talk voices.

So tonight we had our department's Christmas party at one employee's house. She's 24 and has two kids, ages 5 and 2. All the other (female) attendees have children of similar ages. Needless to say, the hostess's kids were wandering around during the party. Fine. They were nice enough. I don't think anything of them being present, as it was in their own home and they were not unruly.

However, I did feel uncomfortable. I always feel like the others, the maternal types, are looking at me with pity (and this is not an biological clock issue - I have always felt this way, since I was about 12 myself and shirked from picking up babies) and mild amusement. I feel like it's just very obvious that I am not interested in the little ones and that I don't know how to relate to them at all. I am also an only child, which is probably related, too!

Anyway... does anyone else feel this way? I have a couple of friends with kids, and I feel differently about them, especially the two children that I have known since they were in the womb... I know what intellectual level to address them at because I have watched their growth, you know? But, even with them, I feel no urge to pick them up, kiss them, blow farts on their tummies, do baby talk, etc... but I will concede that they, at least, are cute. But still not as cute as a puppy. Puppies are just sweet... children are willful and manipulative...

Sometimes I wonder if I am just missing some kind of gene. I also have a great sense of direction and never get lost, love football, don't play mind games, and hate chit-chat and shopping. haha

Anyway, back to my basic question: is anybody else uncomfortable around children? I just feel that they are a different realm, and I don't belong in it. And I have some sympathy with Bill Maher's statements about how if OTHER people choose to have kids, they shouldn't bring them around the rest of us, since we obviously chose NOT to have them ourselves! haha... He was referring to restaurants ruined by screaming children... and, like I said, I didn't mind these kids because they were in their own home and all... but I didn't LIKE them, either. I just think children are boring. And babies even moreso.

:shrug:
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. from being an only child...
did you have other little kids around, younger than you?
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. not regularly, no
and, frankly, it really bothers me to see little girls, toddlers themselves, 'mothering' smaller babies. Creeeeeepy...

I was just never interested in babies. I never picked one up until I was like 24.

I think it's just because I am an only child, my parents had me hang around a lot of adults when I was a child, and the only other kids I was around were my age... plus I am fairly intelligent and like to discuss politics and curse and whatnot, so kiddie situations are just... boring.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
70. My 6-year-old son 'mothers' smaller children.
It's not just "girl thing."

And this is a 6-year-old boy who wrestles around, plays with cars, acts like dinosaurs and is, generally, very "male" in every other aspect.

I have to say, though, that there's nothing wrong with not wanting children, but I would caution you to have a child if all you want is "adult children" for when you get old. They need love and support and constant attention from the time they're in the womb to the time you die.

Oh - and you don't have to baby talk. I never did and now my son has to take reading classes in second and third grades (he's in first) because he's too advanced.

Seriously, don't have a child just because you want older children. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent, and that's just fine.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. I know exactly how you feel
Only I never even thought I would have them! Then I did. A lot changed at birth. I wasn't into the pregnancies really (like reading to fetuses or that kind of shit) but once they were out....it was totally wierd - lots of ancient instincts just took over. It might be like that for you too.

oh and puppies are cute, but your own baby's poop isn't as bad as you think it's going to be.
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hell, I have children, and even I am uncomfortable around other peoples
kids. I didn't have a maternal bone in my body either, until I had my first child, but I will never be one of those uber-mommies who love every child they see on sight. Friends of mine got upset when I had a dinner party and requested no children (even though my sister provided free child care for everyone who wanted it at my parents house). I love my kids more than anything in the whole world, but that doesn't mean everyone has to feel the same way! As far as willful and manipulative, kids are what they are :) :toast:
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Re: willfull and manipulative
I just meant that they are the same as adults. Only even more selfish, loud, hyper, and not beaten into social acceptability yet. haha
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AmyDeLune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
52. They're just more honest about their feelings than most adults
"beaten into acceptability" is a sadly accurate phrase, be it physical or emotional.

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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #52
67. Don't think it's so sad...
There are plenty of (chronological) adults whose "childlike" "honesty about their feelings" lets them feel free to physically or emotionally beat someone else into submission.
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Psst_Im_Not_Here Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
85. I'm with you there!
I have 2 kids of my own, but outside of my kids and my sisters kids, I get anxious around other peoples kids. I was never maternal either, and really didn't even want to have kids. The gods had other plans for me however. I never talked baby talk to mine and now they have huge grown up vocabularies. I adore my kids and can't imagine life without them. But they're mine.

Of course, it takes some getting used to, especially when my kids want to have their friends over...up goes the stress level. But as a parent, you learn to deal. I still feel relief when the kids leave to go home LOL

Don't worry you're not the only one, I know a lot of women, myself included who feel that way. Even other moms.
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #85
90. sounds familiar
I only have one, and he was 'unplanned', but it has been great. I had never even held a baby until I had my own, and baby talk... uh uh. Like others in this thread have said, my son has a HUGE vocabulary, reads at a sixth grade level (he's in 3rd grade), aces social studies and is more knowledgable about politics and the ways society works than most adults I know. I have a really hard time being around other kids, and I don't think any one would describe me as 'maternal' in any way.
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kermujin Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #90
110. OMG, justabob!
Did I just post that? Or did you?
I have one child, who's in third grade and reads at near high school level. He's very political and highly socially aware (...much more than many adults, even...!). As the only kid of a single mom (who had no friends with kids for a long time), he's spent most of his life being included, and behaves accordingly. He's very kid-like when he's out playing with his buddies, but he's also more than capable of hanging around a bunch of adults and contributing or keeping to himself, which ever is more appropriate.
I also never particularly wanted children, but here he came.
He's been the best thing ever, but I love what someone else said: I'll *also* never be an uber-mommie. I don't like some kids I meet (just as I don't particularly like many adults I meet).
I put it down to people in general, not just kids, though.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't have a single maternal atom in my whole body, so don't feel as
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 12:10 AM by niyad
though you are alone. I can only tolerate some children, those I know well, who are decently-mannered, and whose parents actually supervise them. I have absolutely NO problem correcting children who are running amok (although, if their humans happen to be handy, I chastise them).

I am of the last generation that was expected to have offspring as a given, and went through years of comments about my child-free state. being a crone, at last, I don't have to put up with that sort of BS anymore (not that I ever did, mind you.) had all sorts of answers calculated to make people squirm, although my personal favourite was, "and how is this any of your business?"

don't allow yourself to be intimidated, and don't worry about the pitying glances. You, after all, made a choice (unlike some parents, who just assumed that was the only thing to do)

I can tell you that, of all the people of my acquaintence, those who chose not to have children have never regretted it. some parents, on the other hand, would make different choices if they could.

by the way, if you ever feel like you need reinforcement, there was a wonderful book by ellen peck called, "the baby trap" that came out around 1970--was an absolute lifesaver for many women of the time. it is still available on amazon, I just checked.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. thanks
That sounds like the type of fortifying feminist propaganda I like to read for a good wind-down. I am not being sarcastic. For once. haha
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. and
re: I can tell you that, of all the people of my acquaintence, those who chose not to have children have never regretted it. some parents, on the other hand, would make different choices if they could.

No parent would ever admit that.

!
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. actually, a number of parents have admitted that to me, so this is not an
assumption on my part.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. I didn't mean to imply that I didn't believe you...
I was just thinking that I am sure they added the usual clichees about how 'of course I wouldn't take anything for little Johnny...' blah blah blah 'BUT...'
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. surprisingly, some have been very open about it, and without the
usual disclaimers.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. go on, do tell...
I am interested. I can't imagine anyone I know freely admitting to such non-socially-acceptable thoughts.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. my mom told me that now way did she want six kids....
and um, I was the last of the six.
:shrug:
but i never had the breeder gene either.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. amazing, isn't it? but people can be amazingly candid when they know
they are talking with a sympathetic,non-judgmental person. for some reason, people seem to be comfortable confiding things to me that they wouldn't share with anyone else. (I used to wonder who issued me the chaplain's bars when I was born!!)
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
57. I've had parents admit that to me.
I am 40, child free by choice, not sorry, and have had other women my age aske me if I ever regret not having kids (no, I do not).

They were not saying it in a way like, "wow, your womb is barre"- it was more like in awe that I did what I wanted and not had any kids and am pretty free.

When I look around me and see the depressed-and-stressed parents, I know my choice was correct for me. Each person is different.



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The Icon Painter Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
63. My mother did, often and vigorously. nt
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
71. Actually, I have had a few of my (female) friends admit the same thing.
They love their children now that they are here, but if they had a choice to do it over, they would have opted out.

I am not very maternal either - I just don't like taking care of people for some reason. I love my nieces and nephews, but have no interest in the day to day maintenance of a child. I prefer dogs (I am much more patient with them for some reason.)
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
108. I have several friends who have said that to me, too
They felt pressured by their families/society to have kids, when both they and their spouses actually did NOT want to have kids.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Children I dig.
It's the adults that I have a problem with.

I think kids are perfect. It's a shame they have to become adults, IMO
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. The trouble with a kitten's that
eventually it becomes a cat!!
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. people would ask me why I had cats instead of children, and I would
respond, "you can toilet train a cat in an afternoon, and you can stick them in the closet if they are really getting on your nerves. some would actually frown on doing that with children."

on the other hand, one of the hottest sellers when I ran a bookstore was a handy little tome entitled, "toilet training your child in 24 hours" nobody ever returned it, or complained, but I don't know whether or not it actually worked.
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
8. The things that make me uncomfortable around children are:
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 12:09 AM by IntravenousDemilo
1. I have to watch my language around them, which isn't always easy, so I'm always wondering if I said a wrong thing that will fuck the kid up for life.

2. Sometimes it's difficult to avoid stepping on them way down there, outside my peripheral vision.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
106. heh heh
nah, my youngest came out (of the womb) cussing and shooting an imaginary gun. And after stepping on them a few times they learn to get out of the way same as a dog....
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drhilarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. I am, but not because I don't like kids...
as a male its hard to be around kids and not have someone give you the ol' stinkeye. It sucks,too, because kids are the only ones who will have lightsaber fights with me.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. Kids should be seen and not tolerated. EOM JK :D
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. i use to feel the same way as you did. i use to say the same things
you did. and no, i really didnt have a lot to say to kids. was a bit uncomfortable. i got married old and had one at 33 and 36. you will her adults say your own are different. it is true. your own are different. there are some women that have no nurturing desire, and to those women i totally respect and good for them for chosing to not feels society pressure to have children. you dont "sound" like that is your case. it will be yours to identify. nothing like bringing a baby into the world and NOT wanting them. btw, my kids, very well mannered. from a childs perspective they can see when an adult is uncomfortable with them. i just tell them some adults arent kid people. it is cool with them. they have no desire to force themselves on an adult.

now after ten years of being a mama, i dont care who the kid is, i can connect. they can feel a mama and that will be who the draw to.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. I know I would like my OWN kids, that's not my issue
haha. My mother says she was the same way. She didn't want kids, I was an accident after 11 years of marriage, she she was scared shitless when she found out she was pregnant. She had no particularly maternal feelings before pregnancy, and still doesn't feel maternal toward children other than me, though she can tolerate them and chat superficially with them. She doesn't HATE them (nor do I), she just thinks puppies are far cuter and more fun. Like myself. haha

Anyway, I just can't really relate to them. They seem to like me fine, so maybe I am just paranoid. Tonight the older child, who is a 5-year-old girl, wanted to show me her playroom. Exciting stuff... haha... I obliged, looked around, complimented her toys, asked which ones she liked best, told her I wish I had a playroom... blah blah blah.

I always sort of just feel like I am the 'different' one. Like I have always known that my life would not revolve around children. I am complete without children. Maternity (real or imagined) isn't my destiny. :/ I might have kids, yes, but the apex of my existence will not be in motherhood. I just know this. Please no platitudes about how I will feel differently when I have kids; I realize that; I realize that I can't understand the love you feel, etc; but I think being a mother will be A Part of my whole existence, not the culmination thereof.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
62. it may not reach the highest point, but it better be pretty high
you know the comment about how kids dont behave today. the simple reason they are so messed up is they arent high enough priority for parents. the fun i had in raising mine, even as babies i would talk to them like adults. still did the loving and baby talk and cuddling and all, but often would talk to them just like a peer. after a couple years my mother in law told me how she loved that i did that. my children are very articulate, use huge words and discuss huge subjects. the fun with them is i can talk fun stuff with them, not all the boring kid stuff, lol. i can have a more intellectual and indepth conversation with them than some adults.

a blast to the future whatever comes your way. the best to you
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
69. Puppies are cute until they chew up your boots. I adore my dog..
I adore my kids...they both have equal downsides.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #69
86. aaaaahhhhhhh but the love mrs. grumpy. the love
bonding and connection with fellow human. gosh, at every stage of their lives, how they have taught me the essence in life. such personal growth and understanding of self, others, community,..... yes, even olitics. i tell my boys and nieces and nephews and every other kid..... you guys give us adults so much insight. speak out. lets hear you. you are kick ass in lessons in life.

all the way we see, will be the way we experience, ..... and that is how we create our journey
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #86
99. I'm with you...Read the post to my children. I think OP has overanalyzed
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 09:18 AM by MrsGrumpy
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
14. May be something to do with being an only child
I'm a firstborn, and had the experience of having my parents to myself for three years. They took me everywhere, and I was used to mainly interacting with adults. For you, that experience never ended until you went to school. I like kids that I can relate without thinking "This is a kid," and lots of intellectual geeky kids appreciate that quite a bit.

Some only kid (don't remember who) once said "I didn't really know that I was a kid until I went to school. I thought I was just short."
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. geeky kids
I definitely prefer geeky kids. I like kids who are surprisingly intelligent, make searingly insightful comments, and/or are geeky!
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. Sort of...
I hate the noise. I REALLY hate the noise. ASK me how much I hate the noise.

I didn't enjoy being around children when I was a child. I found them boring then, because they were such... children. (And while I have two siblings, the difference in age was so great, we were all raised as virtually "three only children." I preferred hanging out with adults, because adults were just smarter.)

I like being around my "adopted" niece & nephew (foreigncorrespondent's sister's kids, but as far as they're concerned, I'm as much their Aunty as fc is), ages 4 and 6... for limited amounts of time. I hate the noise. (Have I mentioned how much I hate the noise?) When they're quiet (and sleepy) and unexpectedly flop onto the couch next to me for a cuddle (the little boy moreso, and he's been known to hold my hand throughout an entire viewing of "Finding Nemo"), that I love. It's taken me some time to hug them on my own, or roughhouse with them, because kids in general aren't terribly concerned about hygeine. But I can get over it as long as there's a faucet and antibacterial soap nearby.

Other people's kids... What makes me most nervous is the idea of being accused of doing something to a kid, because 1) people are so paranoid about child molesters, 2) I'm gay, and 3) many people are too ignorant to realize that lesbians almost never molest kids. So, except for fc's niece & nephew (whose parents know me and trust me with them), I never put myself in a situation where there isn't another adult in the same room.

Babies... I've never changed a diaper in my life, and I never will. I am afraid I would gag and throw up on the poor infant. (No, seriously!) I'd rather clean a cat box; at least I know what to expect.

I rather enjoy holding a sleeping baby for hours on end, however. They're fun to pet, like a cat, and they almost purr when you rub their bellies. But as soon as anything starts to smell or leak, I hand 'em right back to their parents.

So, I kinda like kids -- but there's no question whatsoever that I'm a lot better off child-free.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I certainly agree with you about the noise--I have hyperacusis, and most
people have no idea of the agony caused by a shrill, shrieking child (or any noise, for that matter)

when people would ask me WHY I didn't have children, on occasion I would respond, "I hate noise, I have NO patiene, and the world's WORST temper. Do these sound like the traits of a parent to you?"
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. You are who you are
Some kids appreciate the rare adult who talks to them on an adult level. So if you feel like doing that, go for it. If not, the basic perfunctories that you'd give to any other human in the house are more than enough. "Are you having fun over the holidays?" "Did you help decorate?" Of course, a 2 year old is a bit young for that, so a simple hello nameofkid, will do. They're so self involved they won't notice you much, if they don't see you often.

As for having kids of your own, if you don't feel it, skip it. If you want to enjoy older children, become a big brother/sister or scout leader or children's museum volunteer or something. People should live their lives the way they want to.

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Psephos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Well said n/t
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Yeah
That's kind of how I see myself... as that cool aunt, you know? haha... I could definitely be a great Big Sister... something I intend to do once I get resettled in Austin permanently.

If I had siblings who were married and reproducing, I would actually feel less compelled to have children myself because I could be that surrogate/aunt/godparent role. Which probably says a lot, doesn't it? I really regret not having siblings in general.

I also remember when I was a child... that, once I was about five, I didn't understand why people spoke in that patronizing tone, with big eyes, like I was some kind of idiot. So I always spoke to children like they were actually HUMAN, and, mostly, they seem to appreciate it.

I also have almost ZERO desire to experience pregnancy or birth. Pregnancy, maybe a little... I think I would be a really cool looking, superhip pregnany lady... and that time to plan and mentally prepare and contemplate the life that you are about to bring forth would be quite an experience... and one that I might regret not having, just as a human being, since I am capable of it. However, on the other hand, I don't really see why people would voluntarily put their bodies through that. I have enough stretch marks already, just from being female and over 18, thank you very much! I have also thought I might be a good candidate to adopt, because of these very thoughts... When I first found out, at age 6, where babies come from, I just remember being totally shocked and indignant. Up until that point, I had assumed that women just DECIDED to be pregnant, and then BOOM! they were pregnany. It seemed so unfair. And I still sort of feel that way. Another of my friends and I have had talks, through laughter, about this. We both sort of feel like being pregnant would feel like a parasite had invaded our bodies... weird... compromised. I would like to keep my body as it is, to be honest, just accepting the loss of muscle tone and chicken-skin, skipping the torn perinaeum and cracked nipples and all that... haha
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #29
41. You sound like my daughter
For most of her teen years she swore she was never going to get pregnant, no way she was going to do all of that to her body, let alone... THE PAIN!!! Well, she just had a beautiful little boy in June. Epidural? Oh hell yes, fuck pain. lol. She had no torn perineum and she had a 9 lb 8 oz baby. Just a really good doc who used lots of mineral oil and massaging. Cracked nipples? She decided after about 2 weeks that the whole nursing thing was idiotic and went to bottles. She is just too active and no, nursing was a bigger pain in the butt than a bottle to her. She had a few rought spots, mostly over guilt because she wasn't the perfect mom, as all moms have. Once she got through that, she's been great and is being a mom on her own terms too. I finally convinced her that that's what makes individual people, the fact that every single mom isn't exactly the same. A friend of hers is a new mom too and went back to school. Her parents are upset with her because why can't she see she has a wonderful husband and just be happy baking cookies and oggling her child? Can you believe that, in 2005!?!

So yeah, do what you want and never look back.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #29
109. parasite - that's pretty much how I felt
To me they were not human till they were out.

As for adoption - lots of older children in need. My SIL adopted a 16 year old a few years ago - and he is out of the house already! Ha - THAT makes me mildly envious.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. As a male, I have a different perspective, of course.
I was brought up in the Fifties in an atmosphere really laden with babies and Jesus since my dad remarried and I all of a sudden had new siblings. They were fun little kids after awhile but I was uncomfortable with the role I could see the women of my family playing. I did not like to carry babies around because I was instantly ridiculed for the awkward way I held them. And so forth and so on. I just never felt comfortable. We have no children but for other reasons than mere discomfort. One of them being that this vile capitalist social order likes nothing better than to hold one's children as hostages to its insane policies and another is that US children place a much heavier strain on the Earth's resources than those of the Third World. Sorry, didn't mean to politicize this thread!
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Everything's political
don't worry. :)
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
25. I felt the same way. I hadn't held a baby at all until mine was born...
and I was 30 years old. I never even wanted to babysit - I just didn't know how to relate to a kid. Then I had my own and I was really scared that I would feel the same way about my baby. I didn't change a diaper until the day I went home which was 3 days after birth. It was so different than I thought it would be. That maternal thing just kicks in and you fall in love with your baby.

I even had another one 4 years after that. It's fun and I feel comfortable with kids now.

There isn't any rush for you to have kids. You're still really young, so don't let someone else pressure you into thinking that it's time for you.
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dhill926 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
27. um, you're normal
here's a quote from your post.

"Sometimes I wonder if I am just missing some kind of gene. I also have a great sense of direction and never get lost, love football, don't play mind games, and hate chit-chat and shopping. haha"

there are a lot of folks like you. don't sweat it...
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
28. For Several Reasons
They're just not interesting to me; I have no idea what to say to them nor do I particularly care. I can't stand loud noises and chaos, and I have a very, very sensitive nose and do not tolerate body/waste odors well. And I'm under doctor's orders to avoid babies and children due to my fragile immune system.

For all those who say, "It's different when it's your own," I say you can't imagine what it's like to be someone else. Having a child would not make me love the noise, squalor, odors and chaos and it's no guarantee that I'd actually love the child. Rather than waiting for an "oops!" moment to find out, I had myself sterilized - twice. Every time I hear a baby wailing, I wonder if I can have third sterilization - not a reversal.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
30. The only child I'm uncomfortable around is my own 15 year old
You're not abnormal. You're 26. Enjoy being young.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. around here I am abnormal!
This is Bush Country! Everyone I know who is younger than me has breast implants and acrylic nails, at least one kid, at least one tacky tattoo, an SUV - and half of them are divorced.

I am over the hill, a spinster aunt, have two degrees, have been to 13 countries, drive a compact car, don't feel the need to have a man or a baby, and I watch Washington Journal instead of Soledad. I am a TOTAL FREAK.

haha

:) :) :)
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. You must be in Dallas, then
I'm in Texas, too, and I don't know anyone with a boob job.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. NE Texas
small town - very, very Bush Country. It's painful.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
65. that is funny stella. i am up in panhandle
when i first moved here, worked in an office of women, i took everyone, and total of marriages and divided, 2.5 marriage per person and i had never been married. not only do they remarry, they have someone there to marry when they get out of marriage.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #65
91. my mother is a legal secretary, and we often discuss this phenomenon
I only find someone I want to date like once a year... but these people are already engaged before they're divorced! I work with a 'woman' who has a one-and-a-half year old child, who was divorced before her 21st birthday, and who is already hot and heavy with some other guy... weird.. very weird to me.

My parents are divorced... my mother has been divorced twice... I had a common law type of thing for four years in England, but I will never get married unless I am DAMN sure about it. Something I don't really think I, personally, could be until about age 30 due to my own personal formation and growth and the need for emotional, psychological, and even literal physical space. I may want to suddenly move to NYC, who knows? Plus I think the whole contract aspect is a bit off-putting. I don't want to be trapped in a contract with someone; this is another reason to wait. I wouldn't get married unless I was 100% financially self-secure. Plus, basically, I just don't see the point. I don't think you can promise someone you'll love them for 50 or 60 years. I like the Susan Sarandon model myself. But you'd have to have a really liberal, mature guy to pull that off, IMHO, and there aren't many of those around. So I'd rather be alone.
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #33
74. you sound like around every 4th person i meet around here...
but then i'm from SF Bay Area. it's good wonderful people like you are in areas such as that; they need their world shaken up once in a while, too. think of it as you're the emissary of the gospel of diversity to a city sliding horrifyingly into monochrome.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #74
93. can I steal that phrase?
That was brilliant. haha

I am such an iconoclast... I mean, it's just so RADICAL to live one's life according to one's conscience, with thought. Isn't it? People are inscrutable, especially here in Bush Country.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
112. Oh my -- you poor thing.
"Everyone I know who is younger than me has breast implants and acrylic nails, at least one kid, at least one tacky tattoo, an SUV - and half of them are divorced." Hell. That is my idea of pure Hell.

Can you get out of there?
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #112
131. they're not really bad people
Just not people I can really identify with... I always knew I had to get out of here, and did get out of here at 17... then got out of Texas just after my 22nd birthday... but due to a variety of unfortunate circumstances, I am now back and saving up money until I can move back to Austin.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
31. As far as the pity look
You always have freedom that they don't. Many, and I'm not saying all by any means, but many are very quick to show pity but then become very jealous that someone who is child free is not having to go through everything they are or has the freedom to do things they aren't always able to do. Pretty hard to be driving home from work and go to the airport and go to Colorado because you saw a billboard and decided to go skiing when you have children at home.

My fiancee was eating lunch with three coworkers who all have children and they were talking about Christmas shopping and the price of gadgets for the kids when as she put it one looked over at her and very sadly said "ohh, what do you two do for Christmas?" She just smiled and said "well we're still deciding if we are going to New York or the Caribbean for the Christmas weekend, probably the Caribbean you know margaritas on the beach and all." When they were finished with lunch and leaving she heard one say "that's so unfair."
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
113. OMG
as a parent - and don't get me wrong, the regret is very superficial, I DO love my kids, but I would NEVER give a childless person the PITY look - even if they were unable to have kids and wanted them!

I am not dishonest enough to pretend I love being bound to this process for 20 + years 24/7. I AM lucky enough to have a partner who is willing to help tremendously and not have too many issues with my need to be more than wifey and mommy. I live in a rural, tradition bound area and am "head of the farm" so to speak - always fun when various "menfolk" come to do business or talk to the "boss". And I have been able to do some internatinal traveling (even though I really can't afford it!) as well, so while the kids tie me down somewhat, probably my ties to this piece of land do it more.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #31
121. I just took my four-year-old son to NYC for vacation, for a week
We had a blast, and walking out into the middle of Times Square, at night, with him, was more fun than I've ever had at a bar, or on a beach in my entire life. Not harshing, just saying...

:hi:
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WernhamHogg Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
32. I know how you feel
I am a 27 year old straight female who has been married for 4 years. I have been with my husband for 8 years. While we have not ruled out having children in the future, we currently don't have any and we aren't in a rush to have any at the moment. Still, once people find out how long my husband and I have been together, many of them seemed shocked that we are still childless. As if we are freaks of nature for not having kids yet.

I totally feel uncomfortable around kids at the moment. The running around and the yelling, crying and screaming that (some) kids do tends to do get on my nerves REAL quickly. About your "missing gene"...I think I'm missing that same gene. Replace the word "football" with the word "hockey" and you described me.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. hahaha hockey
I like hockey, too! Just not as much as NCAA football! You rock!

Isn't it unbelievable that people would think there is something wrong with you, like that you are 'barren', because you have been married four years and have no children?! I am the last of all my cousins to be unmarried and have no kids (and several are younger than me!), and I am SO pleased with myself at the family holiday gatherings. haha. Anyway, I can see maybe getting married young if you want (though I didn't because I felt that 22, 23, 24 AND 25 were too young, even though it would've helped the immigration nightmare I was in with my British partner of four years!), but what I cannot understand is young, world-is-their-oyster couples getting married and having kids within a year. Why the rush? I would want to enjoy life with my spouse, as a spouse, for a few years first. Sounds to me like you have the right idea! :)

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dhill926 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. this is all normal
fuck those who say it isn't...
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
40. I've always felt the way you feel.
I never had any interest in babies and I've often wondered if something were missing in me. When my mother started a day care center I learned to, um, rather dislike young children. :( I decided about that time I would never have kids. My biological clock has nearly run out. Not only that, but I'm really not healthy enough to have children.

In the last couple of years I've felt some maternal instinct, but a teddy bear seems to be enough to get me through whatever nurturing impulses I have. Also, I went through many years of raising baby parrots, which seemed much cuter than those pink, smelly things. :)

I don't think I was cut out to be a mother. My lack of maternal instinct, my health problems and issues I have with the way I was raised have kept me childless. I'm very likely to remain that way.
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hopeisaplace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
45. Well I'm directly the opposite of you, lol
I love children, want to protect every child on the planet, hurt when they hurt, cry when they suffer, my heart aches for the suffering child, I wanna make it better for all children. I would probably put a child's life above my own. As for dogs, I am totally not a dog person, totally not a puppy person..in fact the way you describe how you don't get people fusing over kids is exactly how I feel regarding dogs. I just don't get dog lovers. I would never hurt an animal, and if a dog were suffering or being abused I would step in and help. But I have no desire to have a dog nor can I relate to dogs..here's the direct opposite of what you said..I don't even find puppies especially cute - never have. LOL - goes to show us, the world must be made up of people to care for the dogs, and people to care for the children.. :)))
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #45
82. I am a dog person
I worship them and crave their company. I wish I could love and save them all. I hope that you have kids because you sound like the very type of person who should. :hi:
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hopeisaplace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #82
97. thank you, and I hope you have lots of dogs
cause you sound like the type who can give them a very loving home :)
I have 4 sons, 3 step kids...been raising kids for 24 years now.
Had a big surprise at "40"..son number 4 ...*ahhhhhhhhh*..but he truly
is the absolute light of my life. His most recent parent teacher interview
had his Kindergarten Teacher singing praises of how he is such a delightful,
eager-to-learn child. My boys range in age from 5 to 19. My stepkids are grownup
now, and great people. We're not perfect that's for sure, but everything I do
I try to do with one basic instinct in mind "love". When I get off track, (believe
I can and do)..I remind myself that "what I do, I teach". Each year I get better as parent,
I'm better with my 5 year old now, than I was with my 19 year when he was 5 - older
and wiser I guess.

Thanks for the lovely words and you have a great weekend :)
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
46. I don't like children
I don't enjoy being around them.The younger the worse.
After they hit say 10 I can deal with them better. Babies up to age 5 are the worst. I avoid young kids like a plague.

I don't feel maternal twords hairless pink squalling spitting up & pooping everywhere babies and snot nosed grubby hands in your face screeching toddlers..and I have no affections twords baby humans.
In fact I think babies are not attractive at all.
Yes I am different.

Now I know the mommies here will get defensive they will hoot I was a baby once,Yes I was and I don't like seeing myself that way. I don't like babies and toddlers,even my past baby self ok.

I had my tubes tied early (age 21)so I would NEVER risk pregnancy.The idiot doc was asking me over and over if I wanted this,it would be permanent etc.He just couldn't fathom I do not like kids.It's annoying.

Best thing I ever did was getting the fertility curse off my ass..besides the hysterectomy that stopped the blood forever.. Don't let people pressure you into being a mom. if you don't like kids you have every right to not like them. The human race has plenty of people who like kids and want to make more,even if it kills us all.

Cats for me are a different ball of fur altogether.

Check out these folks childfree and loving it they have chapeters everywhere,
http://www.childfreebychoice.com/
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
47. Your feelings are quite natural.
Probably most of the people I know (but I'm counting males as well as females into the group) are not fond enough of other people's children to "enjoy" them for extended periods of several hours.

But as for their OWN children, now THAT'S a different story! Their OWN children are, of course, the most wonderful human beings to ever walk (crawl?) the earth.

If/when you have a child of your own, you'll immediately see the difference.

I used to think I "just loved children". I thought they were great fun--in that sense, I wasn't quite like you. Anyway, I really wanted to have my own.

So I did. And enjoyed them. (Not so much now, b/c they are teenagers, but still my greatest desire is that they'll always thrive and be happy.)

But I find myself impatient about other people's children. I make a point of not showing it, especially if the kids are a friend's kids. But "other people's children" can be very annoying.
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smurfygirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
48. Oh girl, they are looking at you with admiration
you can sleep in, skip dinner, never have to go to PTA meetings.
SPEND YOUR MONEY ON YOURSELF!!!
You can have lustful one night stands
your vagina hasn't been stretched to china.
you can get drunk and never have to explain to your 5 year old why you threw up all morning but feel much better now.
you have time to take a hot bath, get your hair done, go to the bathroom.


Believe me, the lists goes on and on.
I love children when they aren't mine.
That's why we have none.
What you experience is normal, but believe me, those women envy you and your freedoms.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. Great post!
:hi:

They do envy you and your freedom.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #48
73. this one doesn't. We can live in a world with our separate choices
in life with out being envious of others. :) I have never done any of the things listed above. I take hot baths all the time. And, MrG seems quite pleased with the layout "down there". ;) :hi:
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #73
87. Thank you MrsG. I've never had more fun than with my kids, and I
still spend time and money on myself.

I see a lot of parents live lives I wouldn't envy, and I don't understand why they do things that way. But I see childless people with lives I also wouldn't envy.

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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #48
88. "Your vagina hasn't been stretched to China."
:rofl:
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twenty4blackbirds Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
49. Yep.
I'm uncomfortable around strangers, children included. I find that children can be amazingly friendly and I respect that friendliness. I don't do baby-talk or tummy rubs. I do encouraging nonsense talk though. I have never changed a diaper and I dread my first one - it probably won't be as bad once I get it over and done with but I still won't volunteer. I like newborns and upwards until the kids get stroppy and unfriendly.
I like talking with children because they have an interesting world view. I love hearing their perceptions and their discoveries of their world, either the external environment or their own feelings.
I'm not keen on puppies because I think they are too clingy :-) they are cute though just like pretty babies, especially if they (puppy/baby) belong to other people.
Unless the kid is keen on you, they won't be clingy. A plus.
Try some Pavlovian experiments on babies. Makes 'em more interesting.
Ditto on Bill Maher's statements. Also felt the adult environment shouldn't have been inflicted on me when I was unprepared as a child. Most boring time I spent feeling bored and resentful.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
50. A word of caution
Being extremely 'child-averse' as a society can be harmful. Japan, for example, has a birth rate WAY below replacement and a rapidly aging population. AND they're very averse to immigration, so they're going to have big labor shortages in the future
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #50
64. A birth rate below replacement is a good thing, imo.
The planet would be a better place. I'd love to know that someday human population numbers would stabilize under 1 billion, and that there would always be plenty of earth left for every other living thing.
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Jamison Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #50
77. You talk like that's a bad thing.
With unemployment the way it is, maybe a huge labor shortage is what we need here too.
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Ms. K Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
51. I don't think it's an odd thing at all...
And I have one child.

Note that I said I have ONE child. She is 11. We will not be having any more children, and I have been called "selfish" for that.

Why is it selfish? Just because I know, as does my husband, that we have the time, resources, patience, and ability to care for one child well, and choose not to care for two children in a mediocre fashion? Yeah, that really sounds selfish to me.

That being said, I like my kid, I like her friends, I like my nieces from my younger SIL, and tolerate the nephews and niece from the older SIL, and I like the children of my friends.

I do not like other peoples' children in a general public sense of the statement. They annoy me. People don't bother to teach their children basic manners so they act in a socially acceptable manner, so there are kids running around yelling and screaming in the most inappropriate places, which grates on my last nerve. I don't like being in a bookstore and seeing Junior picking his nose, wiping it on the books in the stacks, and tugging on his mother's leg yelling, "MAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMAMMAMAMAMAMAMAMA" while Mama is too busy talking to her friend who's either right next to her, or on Mama's cell phone, to pay attention to her own damn kid. I hate hearing the four million decibel scream of severely pissed-off and seeing parents who will do absolutely NOTHING about it.

Drives me absolutely apeshit fucking crazy.

I went to a lot of trouble to teach my daughter how to conduct herself in public. You know, no screaming, no yelling, no nose-picking, no obnoxiously snotty comments (she saves her great one-liners for me, and lately, we're bonding while shopping by making snide comments about the people who are irritating both of us) meant to insult strangers, the usual. Basic social graces. Basic social "norms" that make functioning in a world populated with difficult people a little easier.

We taught her right from wrong. I hate it when people don't teach their kids the difference between right and wrong, and I hate it more when people REWARD their kids for engaging in shitty behavior like cheating people out of money, or lying to get their way. Makes me want to smack the parents.

So, if we put all this work into turning our daughter into someone who can function in society, and yet still has a mind of her own, why the hell can't other parents do the same thing? What the fuck is wrong with them, that they refuse to take the parental role, and instead try to be "friends" with their kids? What is that all about? I don't get that.

It IS different with my kid. But I make the effort to be her PARENT first, and her friend after that. She can come and talk to me about anything, we bond over making snarky comments about annoying people in public places to each other, but at the end of the day I'm still Mom, and Mom's word is LAW, dammit. Mom and Dad ARE the final authority on the matter, thankyouverymuch. She respects that we have limits and boundaries, but we still let her be her.

Okay, I should stop, I think I'm turning this into a completely different subject than what you originally posted about!
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
53. I am happy to know that others feel the same way as I do.
I have always preferred puppies to children. I have two children who are grown now, but I really did not chose to have them. They were both "accidents."
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
54. they give me hives.
i don't know why -- but i just don't love being around kids -- i mean when i am it's ok -- but i can't wait to get away.

plus these days -- with pedophiles and all in the headlines -- as a gay single male -- i have developed childphobia.

i smoke, curse like a truckdriver, won't ''try'' to relate.

i'm always scared i'm going to break them -- you know when you're friends ask you watch the kids for whatever reason -- i'm always soo
relived to give them back unscathed.

oh god -- i could go on.
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
55. Also only child, no kids...
But I'm an old grumpy male-type person. Once I was talking with a co-worker about my age with no kids. I think he hit the nail on the head when he said: "I decided I was too selfish to have kids." I probably am too. And guess it's much better to admit that than to screw up any offspring for life. :-)

Being in a foreign place right now (Alexandria, Egypt) is giving me a different perspective than I usually have in Los Angeles, where Awful Whiny Kids are all over the place.

This is a day off and I went walking around the local streets this morning. It's amazing how many very young kids you see out on their own, generally doing chores like fetching a tray of fresh-baked bread for the family. One woman was out scrubbing the front steps of her apartment building, and had drafted her little girl (probably about 6 or 7) to help.

Apparently they don't tell their kids not to talk to strangers. Everywhere I go I end up surrounded by rug-rats of various ages who want to talk to the Goofy American. Most of them are learning English in school and want to practice, which I of course encourage as a Worthy Educational Goal.

One phrase they all seem to know: "Bush no good!" :rofl:


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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #55
120. Egypt
also no problem putting kids into the labor force. My sister did some archeology work there - supervizing a crew of young boys (8 and 9 - 10 years old) carrying buckets of sand ALL day. My kids are by no means typical spoiled American brats - they can put in a day of work, but man those Egyption boys working to help their families for a buck or two a day.....and I know there are other places like that of course, but that was first person real contact...really brought it home to me anyway.
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mikeytherat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
56. Stella, you must check this out:
http://mrcranky.com/movies/otherpeopleschildren.html

mikey_the_rat
(just celebrated 15 childless years of marriage in October, and with us it's NCAA Football and Basketball!)
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #56
98. that's great!
thanks for that - very enjoyable, indeed. I suspect I am leaning toward your stance on this 'issue'.
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merbex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
59. I'm the mother of 2 girls ages 17 and 15; I was once at at "party"
for the purchase of Longabger baskets and another neighborhood mother who was standing next to me in the homeowner's dining room and was looking around at the beautiful collection of antiques the homeowner had said "you can tell she has only 1 child and that child is a girl"

She was clearly envious; it was a lovely home, very neat and very tastfully decorated. She had 4 children, who based upon their behavior at the bus stop, certainly would not allow for the display of antiques.

Later on I noticed she made a snide remark to the homeowner along the lines of how do you fill your day? As if she sat around all day doing nothing.

I have also had remarks and statements directed at me as to why we only have 2 kids. What is interesting is that these always come from people who have 3 or 4 or more and who seem to be running ragged. I wouldn't want their life for anything and feel I am very blessed with my family.

Be happy with who you are and never apologize for any decisions you make about your life and
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
60. I adore children
and go out of my way to talk to them and play with them. I seem to be the exception here.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
61. Yes and no.
I'm not uncomfortable around babies. I'm just not interested in them. I don't want to hold them, admire them, coo over them, etc., and I'm not really interested in talking about them.

It was different with my own babies. I didn't ever do the baby talk thing, but I adored them. I cuddled them, held them, played with them, and still adore them as grown men of 26 and 28.

I do like children, but from a different pov. I'm a teacher. I like to talk to them, and I enjoy who they are. I'm not really interested in being there when they need to shriek, climb, run around, etc.; I'm not really interested in playing with them, unless it is some sort of play we do as part of learning in the classroom. When I had to attend a long after-school meeting recently, and a colleague who'd just had a baby stopped in to show off the baby, Everyone but me had to have a turn holding the kid, and had all kinds of questions about labor, delivery, nursing, sleeping, etc.. While I was thinking, "I'd like to go home sometime tonight; can we finish this meeting?" I smiled and congratulated her, and turned my attention back to the papers in front of me we were dealing with.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
66. Absolutely not
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 07:12 AM by mmonk
And I'm male (we aren't supposed to like kids in some circles). I have two wonderful sons. Yes, some kids are manipulative and some mean. But I find they are a sight better than most adults. They give me a different perspective on life. When I see abuse of children and such, I get very angry and have no tolerance for treating kids badly. When I see policies that attack the poor, I always look at the innocent victims of that short sightedness which are the children. It's their natural innocence appeals to me.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
68. There are different types of "maternal". I have never spoken baby
talk in my life, but I adore my kids and get along well (to the point of loving) with other children. I think you are overanalyzing this.

I didn't want children either...until my daughter was placed in my arms.

I think most adults are nauseatingly boring.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #68
81. Mrs. G.
:thumbsup:

:hug:
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
72. not alone. in fact, retail stamped out any love for children i have.
to be brutally honest, and i feel quite reluctant sharing this dark side, there was a point (which has been known to come back around the holidays) where i'd unconsciously break out into a wicked grin when i'd hear the sound of children crying. in fact, i've caught myself, after several hateful shifts of retail, lingering around just a moment or two longer in an area and sigh pleasurably when i heard a child cry. i guess serving hell spawn for hours on end helped bring out my inner evil.

i still believe that all members of society should be condemned to 2 years hard retail, preferrably at a toy store, in order to build a better society. you learn real fast to tip well, not be a nuisance, and always exhibit proper etiquette. i doubt others will always come away despising children, so i think retail 'national service' would be a good thing.
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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #72
104. re: retail - exactly!
I think everyone should have to be a waitress and work in retail. This alone would change the country. Seriously.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
75. Well said and me too.
Kids make me uncomfortable. I don't mind the babies so much. But anything above maybe 18months that I don't have a prior relationship with just bores or annoys me. I am 34 and I am married to a man with a vasectomy. I drove him to the appointment. I think that it sounds like you are surrounded with people that have kids and they never took a moment to question that choice. Or maybe they have them because they are crazy about them. Either way they sound different than you and that's what is also making you uncomfortable besides the kids.

Guess what? You are not alone. There are many people, women too, that are like this. It sounds like you are one way but it makes you uncomfortable so you want to be like everyone else so you aren't uncomfortable. Perhaps you could be happier if you just accepted yourself as you are and sought others like you so you won't be uncomfortable. I had once just expected to have kids because "that's what you do." There is tremendous pressure to have them from all aspects of society and it takes a certain strength to resist this pressure. I had a period of time when the will I? or won't I? question was practicaly an obsession but after weighing all of the pros and cons and especially after a major evaluation of myself (I don't have a lot of physical and mental energy beyond working, not very organized with the minutae of life, I need, absolutely need a large amount of silence and solitude, in addition to the fact that most kids I prefer not to be around) and I decided that not only was it the best choice for me but it was the kindest thing I could do for any potential kid that I could have.

Kids need complete and total devotion, love and time. Once they arrive, in order to become healthy happy people they need to feel so special and loved. Just keeping them alive, clean, fed and progressing in life is a giant chore. If you aren't having a kid because you would just want to die if you couldn't and that you would do anything for one (adoption, IVF etc.) then you probably don't want one enough for what will be expected of you for when they come. It is the hardest job in the world for people who are desperate for it. Why take on that job if you're ambivalent?

I applaud your moment of introspection. It's not for everybody. In fact some people may be surprised to know that 20% of women over 40 do not have kids so if that is your choice eventually you'll be able to find kindred souls. Of course once you are comfortable with yourself however you decide you won't be uncomfortable in those situations anymore. You always fit in when you love yourself.

I had this list of questions once to ask yourself to determine if it's for you but I can't find it anymore. :-( I suggest that you type in "childfree" into Google and follow the links. I warn you that there is an ugly side of this community that ridicules all parents for the actions of bad parents and there is some very dark humor and anger from some. Yet within it all there is enough to help while you are wondering.

Good luck and peace! :hi: :hug:


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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
76. I used to be
then I had my own and fell in love.

Enjoy your life without them. You will miss these days one day. :hi:
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
78. I feel uncomfortable around (most) parents. Many are doing a shit job.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 08:32 AM by BlueIris
Makes me depressed about the future. Well, hell, I'm depressed anyway, mainly that so many children are being born today who won't have much of a future thanks to the last election. But the number of "parents" I see on the street, in grocery stores, in various professional offices, neglecting, ignoring, disrespecting, talking down to, obsessively controlling or actively abusing their children--I'm horrified. I step in and try to enlighten them where appropriate and possible, but these are rare occasions and probably don't do any good. I am, of course, against any oppression of reproductive freedom, but it disappoints, disgusts and upsets me how often I see parents phenomenally fucking up the most important responsibility they have. I wish that the parents of my generation especially would think more carefully about what, if anything, they have to give to the children they want to put on this planet, not just what they want to "get" out of having children or what those children will "do for" them. Then I hope they will prepare as much as they can. It hurts me how obvious it is that so few parents on this earth have approached the task of having and raising kids from any kind of meaningful place.

Damaging a child damages society.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #78
125. I think most people do the best they can
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:49 AM by tigereye
with the tools and experience they have.

Kids are resilient and have been throughout the years.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
79. I just think of children as other people. Some I'm comfortable with, and
some I'm not. I can't think of any reason to lump them all into one category as if they have no individual characteristics.


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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
80. Hey, I have 3 kids of my own, all adults now....
And they are just about the only little kids I ever liked. I have twin granddaughters now, and I adore them, and have all kinds of fun with them, but I still don't go ga-ga over other babies and little kids. So there is nothing strange about the way you feel. It is just different with your own...some kind of weird instinctual thing I guess. But I never did the baby-talk stuff...always carried on conversations with my boys when they were babies, as I do with my granddaughters. It is a weird thing, this grandparenting. When I looked at them for the first time, I felt my mortality, sort of like the torch is passing. But I also felt my immortality...these girls are going to carry on something of me, which sounds egotistical I suppose, and I really didn't expect to feel that way, and I don't really understand it. It is just a strange new experience.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #80
94. LOL, I can really relate to your post here, Punkingal....
.....about your kids and grandkids being just about the only kids you've ever liked. :D

I would say my experience is very similar, and one that I have wondered at at times.

I felt somewhat ashamed - what a clannish person I am to only really like/enjoy "my own" kids, and those of my siblings and very dear friends! :shrug:

:thumbsup: :hi:

DemEx

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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
83. Having raised two sons, I now find children exhausting
They're both in their twenties now, and one has his own son (our grandson, obviously).

I like spending time with my grandson, but in small portions. He's two, and after two or three hours of babysitting, I am ready for some 'quiet time'. My wife, on the other hand, starting wishing WE could have another after the first night our grandson stayed over. YIKES!!!!!! :o

I rarely get irritated by children, no matter the setting -- just really tired out.
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Tamarin Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
84. Well, I've never been maternal, never wanted to be pregnant,
never had much interest in children; but at age 51 now, I'm rather sorry that I felt that way. My husband has two grown children and I just adore my daughter-in-law. I wish she were mine and I am jealous of her mother, LOL. My stepson and his wife have a baby girl who was born in January and she is so precious but I am still standoffish. I hold Hannah and play with her but I don't want anything to do with all the slime that seems to come out of her. Babies are too *juicy* for me. Maybe I should have adopted an older child but I just never had much interest. I wish I had a daughter of my own now, though.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
89. While I have none of my own, I'm not uncomfortable around them at all
In fact I rather enjoy playing with kids, probably because in many ways I'm a big kid myself. Doesn't mean that I want some of my own, it just means I want to get them wound up, strung out on sugar, and then send them home with their parents :evilgrin:

And your feelings towards kids aren't weird or abby normal. If it truly bothers you that you feel this way, then I suggest that you go immerse yourself in kids. Play with your friends kids, sit down and talk with your co-worker's kids, get to know them all. It can be quite rewarding, and due to a child's brutal honesty, uncomfortable at times.

But I do think that you're projecting your own discomfort onto other adults. I seriously doubt that they are looking at you with pity or other such emotions. In this day and age it is quite common for people to put off having children, or not have children, and there is little or no social stigma attached to those people.

Frankly though, either way, I wouldn't worry about it.
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
92. I never really liked kids until I had one of my own.
I could tolerate them but didn't actually like them. So what you are feeling is actually not that uncommon.
As to babytalk-don't do it. Talk to them as you would an adult-just keep the language simple. Talk to them about books. Bring up your favorite books when you were their age(depending on their age-anything from Dr. Seuss to Little Women). Talk about movies and your old favorites. Put on some music-it doesn't have to be popular music from today. Young children can appreciate almost anything(be a bit careful of the choices but feel free to pick something you like). Just observe them and find out what they like-it's not that hard.
I used to only like the company of adults. Now I find myself preferring children. An adult looking at snow would complain about shovelling, the roads and other things. A child will describe what the snow looks like, how it feels and what they want to do(eat it, play in it, shovel it). I enjoy listening to children and getting their perspective-it's refreshing.
And they are capable of so much emotion. Talk to them about subjects that concern you now in a simple manner. Find things that are easy for them to talk about and discuss them. They'll have a thought about it and be more than willing to tell you. It's when they grow up that they learn how to restrain themselves.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. I agree, a healthy child's look at the world is much more interesting
to me as well.

:bounce:

DemEx
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xmas74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #95
105. Which is why I find myself around children more and more.
I'm a Girl Scout leader, a soccer and tball coach, PTO mom, etc. Why? I find that I enjoy the company more than most of the adults in my area. Children always surprise me w/ their generosity and love. Adults-meh.
I don't know if I will ever have another child(I have one). But I like children in general now. Maybe I'll adopt an older child in a few years. Even just a couple of good years in a loving home will make a big difference in a child's (or teenager's) life. And then I can get past the baby stage(I love the way babies smell but don't really care for them otherwise. I don't really start liking kids until they are at least 3. Then you can get a sense of what kind of person they will become).
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
96. Cripes. I just read my own bio.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
100. I am also childless by choice.
I am not uncomfortable around kids just because they are kids. I am annoyed by and have little patience with the misbehaved ones. And I don't find bratty behavior cute or endearing. Actually though, I think I get more annoyed with parents that think when their two year old says "fuck you" or starts taking things off tables and playing with them and other behavior like this that its cute and oh, so adorable. I also don't appreciate when adults question me about my not having children. That's just rude.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
101. I think there are a lot of people who feel as you do, BUT....
I think that Bill Maher assumes to much when he expects that people are going to keep their kids at home because some people are uncomfortable around kids.

Now, I do believe that there are places where one shouldn't bring a child, especially when that child is unruly or uncomfortable, etc. (A crying baby doesn't belong in a 5-star restaurant, etc).

However, there are restaurants that have menus for people under a certain age which would imply that such small folks are welcome. If you don't want to be around such small folk, then I suggest you skip Friendly's, or Denny's or the place that offers the buffet for a discount to kids.

I don't like the assumption that the world is for grownups and so if you have kids then keep your kids at home so that the grownups can enjoy themselves. The kids are part of this world too.

We all need to find a way to practice a little tolerance and a little common courtesy for one another.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #101
126. yup
people seem to forget that they were once kids and someone has to raise them. (scratches head)

I love kids. I always have. I love talking to them, and I do that for a living, too. If people don't want to have them, that's fine. I didn't have mine til I was 38. It was cool before and it's cool now.

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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
102. I feel the same way.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 09:28 AM by distantearlywarning
And I'm an only child too.

I've definitely noticed a correlation between being an only child and not liking kids. Honestly, I didn't like little kids and felt uncomfortable around them when I was one! Now that I've finally become a grown-up and don't have to interact with little kid peers anymore, suddenly everyone I know is having some of their own! I can't seem to get away from it.

ON EDIT: I should say that my nephew, who is 9, is a very cool little kid, though, and I don't mind being around him at all. He's very smart and verbally gifted and has interesting stuff to say. And his mother works hard on his manners and behavior, so he's not too annoying (and no, "working hard on manners" did not mean beating the spirit out of him, it just means expecting him to act polite in polite company). I wouldn't mind kids at all if they were all like him. I've even thought about inviting him to spend the summer with us at some point just because he's kind of fun to have around.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
103. I am
i don't know why particularly. I have always known that I didn't want kids, even at a relatively young age. Now that I am 37, my mind hasn't changed at all, though people sometimes tell me I'd better get started. I tell them it is none of their damn business.

Whn I was 12, my youngest sibling was born. So of course I was the automatic babysitter when they did anything. Which I hugely resented (though it wasn't like I had a great social life of my own LOL). I also remember being hideously embarrassed when my mom was pregnant. Like I didn't even want to be seen with her- that embarrassed. Of course I was 12 so that explains a lot probably about my attitude.

But I think I still don't really like kids. I like my niece and nephew who are 6 and 7 but I can't ever seem to remember their birthdays or anything like that. Now they are living with my parents and I am going there for 2 and a half weeks over the holidays and I am somewhat dreading it. Not because of my neice and nephe necessarily but because I want to get some work done on my thesis and I guess I won't be able to with all the noise and stuff. At first i wasn't even going to get my own room but they decided my neice and nephew could share a room so there is a spare bedroom. Imagine having to sleep on a couch for almost three weeks. The only reason I am staying that long is because it was the cheapest ticket I could get. Staying only Christmas week would have cost me over $700. Not possible. And worse, I won't have access to a car so I can go to a library. Although I could take my mom to work and then use hers.

Anyway I digressed from the original topic.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
107. When they run around restaurants while their mom breast feeds
It drives me CRAZY!

:popcorn:
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Trigger Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
111. I'm with ya.
I don't know what to say to them. I end up cursing and having the parents get mad at me. I'm just not comfortable around them at all...
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trackfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
114. Neither my wife nor I are "kid people"
She likes a quote from Humphrey Bogart. When told he would have to spend the day with (I think) his son: "What are you supposed to do with a kid? They don't drink."
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
115. It seems to be common on DU.
A lot of people are either uncomfortable around or just plain don't like children and express that freely here. It ranges from honest soul-searching such as yours to outright venom. I don't mind the former but the complete and utter Hatred expressed for kids by some here is really disgusting. Can you imagine if someone on DU said: "I really hate blacks" or "I really hate women" or "I really hate Jews." But, somehow hating a whole category of people if they're under 18 is deemed acceptable (again -- I am not lumping you in with these posters! -- just making an observation on many posts I've read here).

I myself was not particularly a kid person, but I had my son at 31 and my daughter at 34 and, BAM! as Emeril would say. The love is overwhelming, and those kids have brought love and laughter and joy in truckloads. Yes, they've also brought noise and messes and frustration, but that is insignificant compared to the good stuff. As for others people's children, I have quite a range of feelings depending on the kid. Some I can't seem to tolerate at all, and others I consider as my second daughter or second son.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
116. Before I had my son, I was terrified of children
Or, at least any to whom I'd have any personal obligation. I had babysat, in high school, but that was easy -- put them to bed, and have friends come over, or make out with some boy. ;)

My best friend in high school became pregnant at 15, and most of the girls with whom I graduated all had 1-3 kids, by the time I was 21. I was TERRIFIED that "something like that would happen to me." All I wanted to do was party, study, and travel and have promiscuous sex -- and I did a healthy amount of all of them.

When I was 22, my cousin's girlfriend became pregnant, and she had the baby, and I sat in my mom's kitchen, with a hangover, listening to her talk about it, and I swore to god that I'd never have a child -- that if I accidentally became pregnant, that I'd abort it, before the sun set on the day that I found out. I hated everything about domesticity -- marriage, kids, two cars, a house that stays in one place -- all of it.

Then, I went through a really bad period of mania, and emptiness and obsessive-compulsive disorder, and drug and alcohol abuse. I came out, on the other side of it, knocked up by a guy that I'd been dating for about four months. I was ASHAMED, when I found out that I was pregnant. There was another couple, who were in the crowd that we ran around with who were also pregnant. They had, like, a nursery, and a house, and a nice car, and invitations to stuff, and I felt terrible, because my boyfriend was a drunk, we lived in a flop house, we had one shitty car -- we were dirt poor.

I decided to keep the baby, however, and, on the State of Washington's pregnancy medical dime, delivered a healthy baby boy. The first two years were hard -- trying to transition from flop-house, to parenthood, to sober up, to leave that youth behind, to have like a functioning kitchen, regular meals, etc. The road was hard -- lots of fighting -- the neighbor/landlords called CPS because there were so many beer bottles outside the house (from boyfriend, not me) -- and we borrowed money, and bought a shitty Puegeot that hadn't run for 5 years, from the neighbor's yard.

But it got better, and has progressively gotten better. I got interested in poetry, and grad school pulled me out of the bungalow, and with the luck of my boyfriend getting a really good job, landed us in a fairytale turquoise Victorian house. I got my MFA, and I'm getting to be the "artist" that I always wanted to be, we pay our bills, we eat organic food, I brush my teeth regularly, and yes -- I'm a great mom. My son is really smart, healthy, well-adjusted (most of the time), my boyfriend doesn't drink as much, we have a later-model Jetta wagon, a yard with Christmas decorations.

I'm reminded of that SNL skit with Molly Shannon, and the tatoos. I wasn't quite that bad, and I'm still far from "perfect," but I'm getting used to domesticity. I'm thinking of, someday, having another baby (don't know with who though, lol), and growing up and doing all this "supposed to" stuff isn't so bad.

You seem similar to me, in some ways -- I've read some of your past posts -- and I understand your avoidance of all of it. It might not be just children, but all that children symbolize -- the relegation to a "role," that many of us, who are feminists, aren't quite sure about. I know that I didn't want to get married, or have kids, right up until the moment that I found out I was pregnant. But now, I believe that my son is the best thing that's ever happened to me. And my gentrification, isn't so bad. There's a whole other narrative to being a hip, liberal, educated mom -- and parts of "hip, liberal, educated independent woman" can be incorporated. I find myself living more responsibly, and happily than I was, when I didn't have any possessions, and thought I was being so non-glam glam and self-righteous and minimalist. I take care of myself. And I take care of my baby boy. And it's all ok.

Sure, every once in a while I catch a whiff of techno, or am reminded of the all-day hangover barbeque, or the freedom to jump in any bed that I want. Maybe I'll do that stuff again, when I'm 44, or 48, when my son or children grow up. Hopefully there will still be partiers out there. I have a feeling there will be. And maybe it'll all be different -- with a little more caution and responsibility.
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Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #116
123. Nice - honest
they do help you grow up eh?
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
117. Nope...I have a knack for getting along with kids
It could be a case of arrested development, I suppose.

:silly:
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m_welby Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
118. I'm only uncomfortable around uncontrolled kids.

I hate seeing kids allowed to run wild with no restrictions and no sense of manners. I have two sons and only regretting having them occasionally (all parents do).

I have 4 siblings, 2 brothers and 2 sisters, my sisters have children but neither of my brothers have reproduced. (I'm the only male that had kids). Apparently they are jsut too selfish and chose not to have children (hooray for them!).Both my sisters-in-law are uncomfortable around kids, though I think they just don't know how to relate.

I generally don't find children boring unless their parents make them boring or are boring themselves, but thats just me, I tend to relate well to most people, children included. In fact children are usually easier, I find adults tedious and boring and quickly run out of conversation, espaecially in a 'male' situation, since I have no interest in sports and cars.

I was always jealous of my brothers who had more money and freedom than I did because i had kids, though now that my children are older that has passed and I find that I had no reason to feel that way.

I have intelligent articulate well behaved children and (for the most part) always have. it is a great deal of work to make that happen, and I always tell people that its way more time, work, and dedication than you think to raise children. It is not for the faint of heart and not something to be entered into lightly (of course I did, but thats another story). No one is ever 'ready' to be a parent.

the only i find odd about this is the loving of puppies. I like puppies, but I do not own dogs because they are just too much like children. In fact they are permanent children, providing unconditional love while never maturing to adulthood and independance. That's something I just can't take.

The most important (really only important) job of a parent is to prepare your child to be an adult and live independantly, any other reasoning is an excuse and a disservice to the child. Too many parents today seem to want to be 'friends' with their kids, that is so wrong; kids will walk all over parents like that and it just makes it that much harder for them (and all adults around them) as they mature.

I applaud your intellegence and independance, no one should tell you what is right for you, you shouldn't feel pressured either way.

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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
119. Yes, I am very
uncomfortable around children. I am 40, married, and don't like kids, nor do I want any, nor have I ever wanted any, ever. I don't like screaming or constant chatter. I like quiet. I don't think you are weird, either.

I used to get looks of pity from co-workers. I wouldn't trade my life for anything. My nice, quiet, fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants life.

Follow your bliss and don't listen to what other people have to say. It's your life and you have to live it.
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El Fuego Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
122. I can't stand being around kids
I've never wanted them, and I don't quite get why other people do. Sometimes though, I like individual children, like my friend's kids, but 5-10 minutes around them is quite enough.

When I see screaming kids at the store ... they just seem like VERMIN.

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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
124. I despise children.
I'm a regular W.C. Fields when it comes to children. Hell, you can't talk to them...I mean, all they know is play, eat and go to the bathroom. Big deal.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #124
127. some of them give a pretty good lecture and puppet show
Terry.

;)
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
128. It's insecure parents I can't stand
Kids are OK, unless of course they are being vicious little shits.

I don't do the baby voice either, it used to freak me out when I was little. Kids tend to like me for that reason.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
129. Used to be
Then had my own. I was a mother at 18. I freely admit, getting the chance to do it over again, not would I choose not to have children, but I was a shitty mother at first. When I finally actually got married at 33, I had my 2 plus 2 stepchildren. I went through phases. There was a while there where I couldn't stand teenagers. Now I love them. Mostly 'cause I don't have any living at home

But my husband and I didn't allow our children when they were younger to be out of control in public-- not for the benefit of others-- but for their own benefit. It's part of parenting, teaching children how to move through the world; besides,
Who wants rude little shits? I remember having to have the "Don't make personal comments" lecture with each and every one of them at one point or the other.
I never pulled punches when it came to the difference between (relative) truth and personal perception. Making them think, challenging them. I'm a passionate person about many issues and they grew up around that.

I also have to admit now, at 45, I am absolute putty in the hands of my grandsons. It's disgusting really. Completely powerless. But, I won't allow them to be rude little shits either--just like I won't let them vote republican. (Because I will teach them to think, they won't want to.)

I never, ever "pity" those who decide not to have kids. I applaud them and their decision. I've noticed the ones who have made that choice have a different and interesting perception of the world, that makes them fun to be around. The conversation does NOT focus around children for a change and that's pretty cool.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
130. I really don't have much use for kids under three...
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 12:49 PM by Blue_In_AK
Don't get me wrong -- I raised three daughters (all grown now), and I think I did an okay job, but I just don't get all squishy inside over other people's infants -- and those two-year-olds .... YIKES. I really don't like dealing with kids until they can talk to me and I can reason with them (somewhat).
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