Why do SOME men lie so freely?

[Scout1071]

This single woman is so sick of being lied to!

Yesterday I met an attractive man and had an instant chemistry. He was at an event that I was working and he was the guest of one of my clients. We spent the entire day together having a grand time. He asked me out to dinner. After he asks me out and after several hours of flirting, my co-worker grabs me and said "I've got to talk to you - got some news on your "friend."" I said "don't even say it. It's the story of my life." Yes, you guessed it - he's married.

At no time did he reveal the fact that he was married. He was not wearing a ring. Neither of the guys that he was with let on at all.

I was shocked. I really had no idea. I can usually smell a married guy a mile away, but this one threw me for a loop. Oh yea...he has a 12 and 8 year old as well.

Why? (angrily shaking my fists at the sky)

Edited due to the apparently highly offensive nature of the thread title.

[Deja Q]

1. A reason not dissimilar to a gay man, married to a woman, would cheat...

Not satisfied at home.

Being gay makes no difference; when you marry somebody and say the vows and the vows say "to have, hold, honor, cherish, til death...", you're not allowed to cheat on the side. You've made a choice. Cheating is not cherishing... for marriage, partnership, et al.

That's why bachelors have the running gags about being single and fearing marriage. (I love the idea of marriage myself, but that's irrelevant...)

[Scout1071]

4. I agree. I just don't like being played for a fool. And I would never

ever be with a married man.

I'm just pissed because I like to think that I'm a pretty good judge of character.

I guess I was way off base on this one.

[Heidi]

54. Not everyone says the same vows you recounted, HT.

Cheating can be lots of stuff, not just sexual infedility. Cheating is whatever the two people in a committed relationship have decided among themselves constitutes cheating, not necessarily what a pastor or marryin' judge or the neighbors say is cheating. Just sayin'.

[radwriter0555]

2. WHY didn't you ask him? That was always the first question I finally

learned to ask every man I was ever remotely interested in.

Well, we shouldn't HAVE to ask, but men being men and all, we do have to ask, in order to protect ourselves.

Life's lessons still in session.

[Scout1071]

5. We were in a unique situation and I didn't feel appropriate to

just blurt out "so, are you married?" in front of my clients and co-workers. Kind of awkward. And like I said, he was not wearing a ring.

[radwriter0555]

3. oh, how did you end it with him?

It's always so much fun to bust them.

[Scout1071]

8. I just left.

I really didn't want to go off on him in front of my client. I asked what his wife would think of him asking me out on a date and he said "she'd be fine with it." I wanted to hit him, then call his wife. Then my client walked up and I politely said goodbye to my client and walked out the door.

Thankfully I found out before I actually gave him my number.

And to top it off, I got a 12:30am call from my Ex (and life long friend) - who is now married. I didn't pick up, but I'm going to call him today and tell him that he doesn't get to drunk dial me anymore. He's been married for 6 years now and I don't need it. Besides, his wife and I have worked hard to become friends over the years.

[radwriter0555]

76. I'm so sorry.. it's so disappointing.. and it goes on and on... I remember

once I met a neat fella, so handsome and nice. We went out on a legit date, and as he was driving me home, I noticed a baby carrier in the back seat of his car.

Now, you'd think he'd have mentioned he had a baby, right?

And the wife that was the mother of the baby? How stupid do these guys think we are?

It's amazing what men will do in their quest for sex.

[RandomKoolzip]

6. Same reason women do. n/t

[Horus45]

7. Not only men lie

My ex-wife was a liar.
Our entire relationship was a lie, she was only after my money.

[Scout1071]

12. This is true. I've known some cheating women in my day. n/t

[lakemonster11]

9. I was propositioned once by a married man

at his sister's wedding while his wife was sleeping in the next room.

DISTURBING!

[Scout1071]

11. Bold. Same thing happened to me at a party last year.

They were the next door neighbors. Party went well into the night (morning) and his wife went home to pass out. Next thing I know, he is all over me. I told him to get lost and jumped in my car - something I was trying to avoid.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

92. During grad school, I went to a dance at the Medical School with

my roommate.

Two guys latched onto us immediately. (We were, after all, the unfamiliar faces.)

I was dancing and flirting with "my" guy, talking about going out for a drink afterwards, when some people came up to him and asked a question that I couldn't hear. But I could hear his response, "Seven pounds, four ounces."

That could only be one thing, but I asked, hoping against hope, "Did you just become an uncle?"

"No," he grinned. "I just became a daddy today."

Grrr. I walked away without a word and stormed off into the ladies' room. My roommate was there and asked why I was so mad. I told her what had happened, she sympathized and added, "I don't think mine's married, though. We're going out for a drink--I'm sure he'll be willing to drop you off at the apartment."

So we get into the car, I in the back seat, Roommate in the front with the driver. Suddenly, I hear something rolling on the floor in the front. Roommate leans over and picks it up: it's a baby bottle. She holds it up and asks coldly, "What's this?"

The guy starts stammering, "You know how it is..."

"Yeah, " says Roommate, "I know how it is. You'd better drop me off too."

I've found that honorable married men find a way to mention their wives within the first couple of minutes of the conversation, if, that is, they don't wear a wedding ring.

I may be disappointed, but at least I don't feel deceived.

[LeftyMom]

10. Sometimes it's low self-esteem

They have no confidence so they give themselves little boosts by proving that women still find them attractive. Some won't go father than the flirting, some will. In either case, it's deceptive and unfair to the person being led on.

Women certainly do it too.

[PassingFair]

80. Nice freudian slip, leftymom!

"Some won't go FATHER than the flirting, some will."

[LeftyMom]

81. .

[auntAgonist]

13. liars lie .. men and women alike. sad. nt

[bridgit]

14. never less than poignant = Sigh no more ladies, sigh no more...

Men were deceivers ever,
One foot in sea and one on shore,
To one thing constant never.

Then sigh not so, but let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into hey nonny, nonny, nonny.

Sing no more ditties, sing no more
Of dumps so dull and heavy,
The fraud of men was ever so,
Since summer first was leafy.

Then sigh not so, but let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into hey nonny, nonny, nonny.

Then sigh not so, but let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into hey nonny, nonny, nonny.

William Shakespeare ~

[LaurenG]

15. Short answer

since we are talking about a man; testosterone poisoning. People do all kinds of things to get what they think are their needs met. It's selfishness IMHO.

[RandomKoolzip]

16. These threads are like the flipside to those "why do women hate nice

guys" threads, aka: "Why are women so cold?" or "Why do women like assholes?" threads.

And to my mind, they're just as offensive and broad-brushed.

[bridgit]

17. ^_^

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Scout1071]

18. I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm just frustrated as hell.

As a 34 year old, single woman.....I have been lied to more than I could possibly count. Pretty much every weekend. It pisses me off and makes me just shut down. I hate them for making me mistrustful of men.

[RandomKoolzip]

24. I'm married, and me and every married guy I know

treats strangers with decency. I don't know of a single friend of mine who lies about being in a relationship when meeting women. Usually it's the first thing I bring up, so as to put the woman at ease.

Maybe it's your social circle that's the problem. In every sample group (male AND female) there's bound to be lying, manipulating jerks, but not ALL men "lie freely." (Nor do all women, just to be clear on my intent).

[Scout1071]

28. Yea, it must be me and my social circle.

Geez.

And you are telling me that when you meet a woman you exclaim that you are married to somehow put her at ease?

How about if I change the title of this thread?

[RandomKoolzip]

32. Re-read my post and pinpoint the word "exclaim" to me.

I just re-read it myself, I see that word nowhere in there.

For the record, I usually, when meeting an attractive woman for the first time, try to weave my marriage into the conversation within the first three minutes or so, so as to make it apparent that I'm not macking on her. (Most of my friends are female). And I never take my ring off, either.

I'm just saying that it's just as unfair to label all men liars and cheaters as it is to label all women with some sexist epithet.

[alarimer]

34. I am in the same boat

I have been lied to far to many times to trust anyone ever again. The last time, he told me he was divorced (that turned out to be a lie). He just lied about everything in fact. So no relationships ever again for me. Fuck it, I've had enough.

[Horus45]

78. I am the same

I have become so bitter about relationships since I was so deceived in my last one. The way I feel now is I could care less about ever getting married again. It's been 3 years and I think it will be a few more years before I feel like I can trust another woman.
I still feel so used.

[lakemonster11]

19. I don't really mind these sorts of threads.

I think it's just people blowing off steam.

Relationships can be frustrating and it's nice to be able to complain for a while and get some sympathy. I don't think they're meant to be taken seriously.

[Scout1071]

20. Bingo.

I'm just frustrated and venting.

[RandomKoolzip]

22. "Why do women lie so freely?"

I'd alert on a thread with that title.

[lakemonster11]

23. Did you alert on this one?

I don't see the difference.

[RandomKoolzip]

26. If both are alertable, why are you defending this one?

And yes, I would alert on a woman-hating thread before I'd alert on a man-hating thread. Paternalism at work? I dunno.

[lakemonster11]

33. I didn't say they were "alertable,"

I just said that there wasn't a difference. I was trying to point out the sexism or paternalism inherent in treating "woman-hating" and "man-hating" threads differently. Plus, I didn't want you to think that I (a female) would take a post called "Why do women freely lie?" any differently than a post called "Why do men freely lie?"

I'm just defending this one because I think that there is room in the lounge for "venting" and "blowing off steam" and I think that too often people take others' rants seriously when they're not meant seriously.

[RandomKoolzip]

35. I can totally see your point, however....

If a guy posted a thread called "All women are bitches!" because he just got dumped or rejected, I doubt too many people would find it a harmless excercise in "blowing off steam."

Which has happened before; check the archives. And, rightfully so, the guy posting such crap usually gets browbeaten and the thread locked.

Alls I'm saying is that it's unfair to call all men liars.

[Scout1071]

43. OK, you win - I changed the title. Now can we get back to the subject

at hand?

And yes, I know that women can be cheaters and liars as well.

I was just relaying a personal situation that seems to be indicative of a pattern.

In this particular instance, I was really caught off guard. I honestly had no idea he was married.

[RandomKoolzip]

46. Okay...guard down.

I am genuinely sorry that you have to run into these shmucks all the time. Some guys truly deserve multiple, vociferous groin-kickings. I apologize on behalf of my gender. Sometimes we get our sense of judgement and our hormones mixed up...again, sorry!

Please be aware that some of us are making the effort to be decent.

And I also apologize if I offended you.

[Scout1071]

71. Peace be with you RKZ.

I think we understand each other.....and thanks for giving us single women hope that there are still a few good ones out there!

[lakemonster11]

50. I've seen threads like that before.

I guess I just generally give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they aren't being serious.

Even when men use the word "bitches" (which I hate), I figure that they're not trying to be truly offensive and that they see it as the female form of "bastards" (which I see as a less offensive word for some reason) or something.

I guess what it comes down to is that I know that all men aren't liars and I assume that the OP doesn't really think that they are, either.

[bridgit]

52. that sounds about right...

[Scout1071]

25. Why?

I don't get it.

[RandomKoolzip]

27. I'd alert on a thread titled "Why do WOMEN lie so freely" because

it's sexist and offensive.

[Beware the Beast Man]

48. But it's not sexist, RKZ,

becuase the XYs are the oppressors of the XXs, didn't ya know?

[RandomKoolzip]

51. Well, I'm out of the oppression game.

There is no percentage in keeping anybody down.

Except midgets, that is. Fuckin midgets......Why do midgets lie so freely?!

[LaurenG]

21. I thought that someone would feel that way

Not all men are like that. I think it's a specific man or type of man. Just like not all women are a certain way. You are right, if this had been a guy talking about women we would have smoked him.

[JanMichael]

37. Nah. The "SOME" and the fact that it's common assholish behavior...

...makes it legit.

I'm a guy that wonders why so many married men act like assholes too.

[RandomKoolzip]

41. Well, the "SOME" just got inserted into the title.

Yes, many married men act like assholes. But it does no good to refuse to acknowledge the efforts of those males who choose not to behave reprehensibly by painting with broad brushes.

[Scout1071]

44. Come on. I changed the title. Can't we all just get along now? n/t

[RandomKoolzip]

47. Yes we can. I'm done being an asshole thread cop now.

[JanMichael]

45. But it's there now and the fact is I didn't see it without.

So everyone should be happy.

[RandomKoolzip]

49. I'm sure Oscar Levant isn't happy.

But then again, he's dead, so screw 'im.

Anyhow, yes, everything's kosher like Manischewitz now. My siren's off.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

40. I usually just avoid threads like these

Blanket statements blow

[RandomKoolzip]

42. Hey, fellow married man!

Been scamming on chicks recently, you dog?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

72. I'm a guy ain't I?

[GirlinContempt]

59. You're just

a tool of the patriarchy.

[RandomKoolzip]

63. "Fool" is spelled with an "F."

[GirlinContempt]

65. Good Jorb

[RandomKoolzip]

67. "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! YOU *ALL* UNDERSTAND - I MEAN

*DON'T* UNDERSTAND!!"

[GirlinContempt]

68. mer meh mrrr

[RandomKoolzip]

69. "Marzipan...this is Goatface."

[GirlinContempt]

73. Weee're still limozeeeen!

But we're in SPACE

[JanMichael]

29. This is Stephanie, not Michael....when I was twenty something

I found out that this guy that asked me out to dinner was married.

I went anyway.

Ordered the lobster, and an expensive bottle of wine.

And then entertained myself by telling him OVER and OVER as only a twenty something can--what a jackass he was, and how sorry I was for his wife.

Then I ordered desert.

He didn't have any fun; I sure as hell did.

[ScreamingMeemie]

You are awesome Stephanie!!!

Great idea!

[Scout1071]

30. Now that's classic.

I just don't think I could stomach dinner with this guy now. It's really too bad, I was truly enjoying his company until he was exposed as being a fraud.

[bridgit]

31. you're a better woman than i am, i hate lobster...

[GOPisEvil]

36. Why do some men lie?

Because some men are assholes.

[Scout1071]

38. A man speaking the truth.

Simply put GOPisEvil - You rock.

[GOPisEvil]

39. Aw, thanks.

One day we'll all get what we want. I'm sure of it.

too.

[Heidi]

53. SOME women lie freely, too.

Just sayin'. I don't think it's a gender thing. I think it's a lack of ethics thing.

[bridgit]

55. ^_^

[Heidi]

56. Heya, gf.

You caught me on one of my "I'm tired of sexism" days. Sorry about that.

[bridgit]

57. naw, you're doing fine, we seem to have lucked out in that regard...

[Heidi]

58. .

Mini-rant: I've been observing all of these female sex offenders getting probation, house arrest, six months jail time, yada-yada, and wondering why we can talk on DU about perceived sexual infidelities, but we can't discuss something so apparently impolitic as when we, as boys and girls and men and women become responsible for our sexual behavior.

Rant off. Sorry, again. with my whole heart, gf.

[bridgit]

74. mini sympathy session; but my goofy X, the one hubby ran down...

the road, the only one who knew how to do so with any sense of eloquence & finality (he'll be in a bracelet for the next 3 years cause of his antics; not hubby my X), actually broke my little finger & ring finger, snapped them backward and broke them because i wouldn't tell him the PIN# to my ATM card so he could buy dope with my money. lord knows i'm trying to be proper about all this sexism crap but i've been of the shitty side and it ain't no joke there, now i'm all done...

i much rather be stood up over dinner than to be kicked in the ribs or have my skull cracked which ain't no fun either but hey!!

hubby got a big ole kick out of that guy's link to his My Music site in another thread (need to go back over & tell him thanks for posting it), but drop by & see if it will play for you, cause he dropped something in there for JJ, i think there's two plays that are still uploading or some such:

http://www.myspace.com/gigazendada

[WCGreen]

60. I've been lied to.. And I have lied... But that was before...

Now, I have discovered that the truth will always set you free...

[mzteris]

61. Because they're still

breathing.

[DS1]

62. Maybe he wasn't interested in you like that

and was just flirting, and the marriage was irrelevent in his mind since you weren't going to get asked back to the hotel

[Scout1071]

70. Ummmm....he asked me out to dinner.

And he asked me out after the event.

Believe me.....he was interested.

[pitohui]

64. yep men will lie to get sex

you ask why, i ask why not, it's human nature, it's hormones

i don't know how old you are, but in my age group, an attractive man with a job has certainly got a wife or a girlfriend or both, and i think that is just the reality of the way it is after a certain age, since men go to pot and become un-attractive at a younger age than women (sorry, guys, but that beer belly at age 27, what's that about? we work out and eat yogurt and get botox, why can't you?)

[William Bloode]

93. Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

Thats a ton of bullshit lol! Men become un-attractive at a younger age lol! Lots of us men work out, train, and stay in shape. I'm 38 and look better and am in better shape than i was at 20. And i am not the only man my age with a similar situation. Men with beer bellies at 27 are slobs and not men who care about their appearance.

[Xipe Totec]

66. You should feel lucky and have pity for the woman who married him

You got the better end of this bargain. Seriously.

[Maestro]

75. I suppose some men and women too are apparently

very insecure and shallow or a large number of people simply married the wrong person. I fortunately married the right one. But even if I hated my wife I would never do anything now to jeopardize losing my kids. Anyhow, I am sorry to hear about that, but look at it this way, it is much better that you found out now than later.

[hfojvt]

77. I think it is what Erika Jong said

sexy men tend not to be faithful. To me it is like working. I am a good worker because I do not want to lose my job. I do not want to lose my job, because I know how hard it is for me to find another one. Other people, either do not need their jobs, or they are confident that they can find another one very quickly.

Same way, with attractive men. If their current SO gets tired of their cheating ways, they can always find and charm another woman. I might be the same way if there were more than 3 women on the planet who found me attractive.

These men, they enjoy talking to you, flirting with you, and if they told the truth they would not be able to. They lie to get something they want, some of your love and affection, even if it is only short term.

[Scout1071]

79. Use it or lose it theory?

Interesting.

[hfojvt]

86. use it or lose it?

No, it is just that the opportunity is there. For him, that is. That's why he takes it. I guess the opportunity is there for you too, and least for short term liaisons. Are you saying that opportunity may not always be there? That is probably true. My take is that a less attractive guy might actually be a better companion, but, of course, I am making a pitch for a guy like me. Honest, kind, and smart?, but not attractive.

[Scout1071]

87. I was actually referring more to his charm than looks.

Who knows? I sure as hell don't.

[PassingFair]

83. If I were you, I wouldn't posit this opinion to my wife.

Not in those words....

"if there were more than 3 women on the planet who found me attractive."

I'd like to think my husband would still choose me above all. Even if its not because I'm the most physically attractive woman in the room. Even if it's because he is comfortable with me and knows that love and affection come with the sex.

[hfojvt]

88. Neither would I

If I could actually find a woman willing to go out with me,
much less marry me.

[undeterred]

82. That would make me really angry too

And even though it didn't proceed to the level of actually cheating, a man who can talk to you the whole day and not mention his family is unfaithful. A decent man would mention his wife and children just to let you know he was married, early on in the conversation. Imagine how bad his wife would feel knowing she's not worth a mention.

[Scout1071]

84. Exactly.

And I feel a bit played because I was attracted to him and kind of let my guard down a bit.

But, as usual, the moment I let my guard won - KAPOW!

[undeterred]

85. And speaking as a single woman

its a whole lot less disappointing if someone lets you know they're unavailable right away- you can mentally shift gears and still enjoy his company- than finding out after you've already become interested.

[leftofthedial]

89. As the song says . . .

This could be the start of something fine
Something beautiful and true
Not be so lonely all the time
You'll have me and I'll have you
Maybe for the first time everything will work out right
Just remember when I get horny, darlin, sometimes I lie

We'll stop lying when it stops getting us laid

In truth, I don't lie. But it seems to be a stereotype with some guys.

Hey! I'll flirt with you and tell you the truth!

[Hand]

90. Insh'Allah... nt

[Shine]

91. I would suggest it's not just MEN who lie, sadly enough.

Lack of integrity happens, regardless of gender.


Shine

[misanthrope]

94. After reading all these replies...

...a few things received no mention.

Number one, human emotions are complex. As such, relationships are even moreso. How and why people interact with each other in the way they do is unsure and multi-layered.

Ever loved someone dearly even though you couldn't stand being around them? I've seen it happen plenty of times. Humans are capable of shaping things in some weird ways that work for their particular situation.

Secondly, human beings are not designed for monogamy. We're just like other primates in this regard.

How many genetic replicants can the average female produce in a year?

How many can the average male produce?

Women are K-selected, with "K" standing for "kin." Their method of ensuring genetic continuation involves surrounding themselves with a support group (tribe/herd/family) that can help watch her during the vulnerable physical state that results from pregnancy and ensure the maturation of her sole offspring for that season.

Males are R-selected with "R" being "reproduction." Their method of genetic continuation, of ensuring that their genes move forward, is to produce as many offspring in a year as possible. They plant seed willy-nilly.

Two very good indicators of this can be found in the male sexual organs themselves. The testicles of the average human are larger than a gorilla's and smaller than a chimpanzee's.

Gorillas live in groups with one breeding alpha male surrounded by a group of females. The male has no competition, his sperm don't have to fight against that of another so there's no pressure on his genotype to produce more sperm. As a result, his testicles are less robust.

Chimps are very amorous critters, especially bonobos. Because there's a lot of coupling going back and forth, the average male chimp has large testicles that can produce lots of hearty sperm fit for winning the ovum derby.

The size of human testicles is between that of chimps and gorillas. Natural selection produced this through eons of innate behavior.

The shape of the glans penis also seems predicated by competition as it seems particularly designed for pushing out semen previously deposited in the vagina and near the cervical opening.

Female humans' hidden gestation and fetilization also seem to be traits that have worked hand-in-hand with practices beyond monogamy. In other words, a woman can have sex with a few different guys and none of them will ever be sure -- modern technology aside -- if the offspring she delivers is their genetic replicant. As such, each would take a certain amount of latent interest in the health of the mother and child, ergo, she ends up with a larger support network.

However to point this out in these times is to invite vitriolic response from those who choose to ignore science in favor of cultural predilection.

[JVS]

95. Did you ask him if he was married?

If you did not ask him, then he never lied.