Another Rant From Khash

[khashka]

So I'm discussing things like discrimination...


And I get told "As a Christian, I've suffered the worst possible discrimination!"

"Uh... ever come back to conciousness in a pool of your own blood? I have."

"Oh yeah, it's always the gay thing with you!"

"Choke on your own blood and then we can talk as equals."

"Get the fuck out of my house"




Obviously I shouldn't have picked a fight at that time or that place... but beyond that, which of us was right? She was dealing with annoyance.... I was remembering two physical assaults.


I'm still not over it. "Well why not? You're an adult!" she said.


Was I right was I wrong? Should I get over it?

(I'm fucking serious here, kids.... the whole thing hurt like hell. And I was the one to apologize. I need a little support. Or even a well reasoned argument why I was wrong.)


Khash.

[NMMNG]

1. GRRRRRRR

I am so tired of hearing that "waaaah Christians are so persecuted" drivel. :eyes: (I'm sorry, but somebody asking you not to proselytise at them is not persecution!)

Let one of them be gay/atheist/Muslim in the Bible Belt for a week. They'll understand what persecution really is.

I'm sorry you had to go through that Khash. :hug:

[KitchenWitch]

3. Or pagan for that matter

[NMMNG]

5. Oh, you people are the worst! Evil! Begone!

;-)

edit to fix winking smiley

[Heidi]

2. You're not wrong.

But for my own mental, physical and spiritual health, I don't generally don't go into bigots' homes and if I have to, I refuse to give them the power to make me angry.

I know you'll think I'm a pantywaist for believing this, but: everyone (even the bigot) is on his/her own path (however dark that path is) for a reason. I don't say this in defense of darkness, but in defense of enlightenment.

I'm sorry you were treated rudely, my friend. They just don't get it. Yet.

:hug: :loveya:

[khashka]

10. Not at all Heidi

I know you'll think I'm a pantywaist for believing this, but: everyone (even the bigot) is on his/her own path (however dark that path is) for a reason




Not at all Heidi, I firmly beleive that. We must all pass through the dark night of the soul if we hope for any progress. The problem is... do we pass through it or do we get stuck there?

Khash.

[enigmatic]

4. Holy Christ!

whoops:)

Seriously, you're not wrong, and had I been there w/ you I would ripped her a new a-hole for even saying something as ridiculous as that. I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

[AVulgarianHue]

6. You know you aren't wrong

don't let the anger/humiliation surge weaken your mental stance nor let it open questions as to the validity of your experiences.

[Wetzelbill]

7. yeah, if you hit on somebody you are attracted to you might get killed...

I say prayers in public all the time -before I eat - and nobody has ever given me so much as a funny look when I clasp my hands and make the sign of the cross. The worst I have ever heard anybody say about Christians is to call them bible-thumpers and those are the people who tend to get preachy with others and some - not all - act high and mighty because of their faith. I'm a Christian, I don't mind letting people know it, I sometimes wear a Cross earring and I have never had a problem with anybody because of it. Sometimes non-believers can condescend, but believers do the same thing. We don't exactly run the risk of getting beat up or killed because we believe Jesus Christ is our savior. Doesn't really exist here in the U.S. Gay-bashing does. She probably hasn't even been discriminated against, there are groups of people who make up discrimination, especially right-wingers or people of faith or even sometimes of skin color, although people of skin color definitely get it bad sometimes. Some people of faith -just like RW-ers - have a victim mentality. Just the same as the nonexistent "Liberal Media" is out to get Republicans there also is supposed to be some great Monolith out there out to destroy people of faith. It doesn't really exist, we don't get persecuted for faith in this country. Not really. Especially Christians. Now, if somebody is a Muslim or something different than White-Bred America, well, holy shit, that can be serious trouble. Try saying you're an Atheist to some Christians and you're liable to get your head chewed off. However, a great many Christians are wonderful people, some are narrow-minded and intolerant. But, one thing they are not is widely discriminated against. Some may exist, but not the way it exists for the Gay and Lesbian community or women or minorities. No way.

I once had friends, I am a Montanan remember, who once told me that they were gay bashers. I said "Why do you know any gay people?" They both replied no, that they would just beat the piss out of one if they did see one, without regard for even knowing them at all or anything. I was stunned, but not all that surprised in a way. I had another friend tell me that he was against Gay Rights, and believed they shouldn't be allowed to marry or have Civil Unions. He spouted off about "Moral Values", "Family Values" and the "Sanctity of marriage." He believed you all shouldn't have any rights. "Those people" I believe is what he called you. I asked, "Do you know any gay people?" He said "No and I don't care to." This guy was married for about a month and divorced. He wasn't even fully divorced and he was bragging to me about sleeping with other women, including a married one. So much for family values and the sanctity of marriage. What's funny is he's kind of effeminate, and several people I know, including two of my brothers, either thought he was gay when they met him or think he's a closet homosexual. I have yet to point that out to him. He might shoot me, haha.

But yeah, I don't see people lining up outside of Churches punching Christians out, or beating them half to death. You should get over the pain of the assault, but never forget it. Always be aware, always be safe and always understand that you could be beaten or worse because of who you love and/or attracted to. But, you shouldn't "get over it" in the context that she said it. Fuck her, she doesn't know what she's talking about. What you need to understand is that you are a good person, and you know who you are, that you didn't deserve to be assaulted and it is a sad, sick individual who did that to you. Just like it is a sad, sick individual who doesn't empathize with your pain too.

Yeah, if I was beaten up because of who I was then it would always be about that too. Always the "Gay Thing"? That is stupid that she said that. I suppose since she's a Christian when Jesus comes back for her salvation and preaches how he died for her sins then she probably wouldn't tell him "Oh, it's always that Crucifixion thing with you, get over it." Blah... I'm done. You take care.

[khashka]

9. Wise words, my friend

I don't want to come across as the fag who hates the mean Christians....

Yeah, I'm queer, I'm also Wiccan. I have no problems with Christians, although I don't share the belief I understand it and admire it. And those who aspire to be Christlike (let's face it, it's a pretty damn hard thing to live up to!) have my utmost admiration.

It just drives me insane when people who claim Christianity will use anything to smash anyone not like them. It sickens and angers me - they betray my friendship and they betray their own faith.


(I'll quit ragging you for that one mistake - you have proved yourself a wise and sensitive young man and just hope to see what you mature into. If it's not a prob, and I haven't misread everything, what tribe are you of? I can claim both Cherokee and Navajo (distantly) and my good friend AVH is almost entirely Cherokee, so I was wondering.....)

Khash.

[Wetzelbill]

11. what mistake is that?

Oh and I am an enrolled Blackfeet Indian. I am also Nez Perce (Flathead) and Chippewa Cree.

Oh yeah, it drives me totally insane when I see people use Christianity to discriminate. Fundies see a vengeful, fearful God, who imposes his wrath on sinners and people who are different. I prefer to see a loving, compassionate one; a God who embraces and loves all who are different.

I, however, pretty much do my own thing. Not a big fan of organized religion, you know?

[khashka]

13. The mistake was the one thing I've ragged you about

flirting with me cuz you thought I was a girl...

Actually if you ever wanna talk about the native american thang.... I'm no use but AVulgarianHue has lived with it all her life and has lots of interesting things to say (I think, in the end, we both agreed that native american men are damn hot - but that's neither here nor their....)

Khash.

[Wetzelbill]

14. oh yeah, haha

I should have known it was that, duh!

Alas, I look whiter than sin. :) Except in the summers when I can tan quite easily and so on.

Yup, I grew up on a reservation. Probably will be moving back to the same one here in a few months. At least for a while. Funny, for my blog and for my tribal government class I have been writing a lot about American Indian issues. Quite a bit actually.

[xmas74]

29. You don't hate me.

I'm a Christian and you've always known that. We get along great and have since the first post. And you know that I just adore you.
Then again, I'm not the "normal" Christian.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. I am a Christian. I will say this: there is no Christian discrimination

in this country. I have never, ever, anywhere - even in synagogues and mosques - come across so-called discrimination of Christians.

To have the audacity - no, let's say the ludicrous ignorant stupidity - to say "the worst possible discrimination" only exposes one's unholy need to lie.

[tjwmason]

12. You should have responded "lucky you".

"Blessed are ye when men shall revile youand persecute you falsely for my sake, rejoice and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heaven."

From the Beatitudes, which are part of this little thing called The Sermon on the Mount by this Jewish Rabbi called Jesus (quotation from memory, so not totally perfect Douay Rheims or A.V.).

But yes, here in the West the worst that we get is a dodgy look; and miscomprehension. The western Martyr complex is (to my mind) doubly offensive because it not only does not bare comparison with really persecuted groups; but also does not bare comparison with Christians in many parts of the world who do suffer real persecutions and death because of the Faith.

As a pretty devout, and somewhat traditional Christian this person needs a damn good bitch-slapping.

[khashka]

15. Might I say....

You are two superior by half, almost unbearably pretentious, a little too clever for your tender years....


All of which adds up to make you unbearably adorable.




(However, that little avatar stunt is going to get you in big trouble. You can get on your knees and beg for forgiveness, or I can post you sleeping on the train as my avatar.It's a major dilemma - having you beg fills my heart with joy, however depriving the world of that pic seems like a crime against humanity. I'm stumped - so I leave it up to you.)


Khash

[tjwmason]

16. You could say anything that you want to....

Your voice - even via text - is like music, in my mind's eye the gorgeous sounds of a baroque oboe, probably in an Italian oboe concerto - something like Albinoni possibly even old Vivers.

As for the avatar thing - it was only a little joke, I had been wondering what to put up there (you were right the Ashes had outlived their usefulness) and I couldn't resist a moment of naughtiness. It will be gone as soon as I can find a suitable replacement.

I will simply ask that you don't put the picture of me sleeping as yours - and leave that to rest on your conscience.

[khashka]

17. While I have this oreverwhelming desire to dominate you

your wish is my command. I still think not sharing that pic is a crime against humanity..... but if I can keep it to myself, I shall do so and feel blessed.

Khash,

(but damn it man, post it. You are beautiful to begin with, asleep with no defences.... priceless.)

[tjwmason]

18. As you were so sweet to me.

The avatar has now been changed. You nearly brought a tear to my eye b.t.w. :loveya:

[khashka]

31. Don't tease me like that.....

You know my unsavory sadomasochist tendencies.... bringing tears to your eyes (especially if it involved nudity) would fill my heart with joy... not to mention a few other things.

:evilgrin:

Khash.

(bad, bad Khash)

[LynzM]

19. Hi Khash....

I don't think you should 'get over it.' I think you shouldn't let it own or control you, if you want to define that, but it is part of who you are, and your history. Much of what I would say has already been said re: Christians with persecution complexes, so let me just offer you a :hug:

[Misunderestimator]

20. It's always the GAY THING? WTF?

Oh man! That would SO piss me off. You shouldn't have apologized.

[Shell Beau]

21. I'm a Christian and I know there is no way in hell that

any Christian has suffered more discrimination than any gay person. That is total bullshit! :hug:



:hi:

[progmom]

22. this was a friend?

and you apologized?

i'm at a loss for words. what she said was total, utter, disgusting, vile bullshit. :hug:

[bridgit]

23. you need a better class of associates no doubt...

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

24. you didn't owe anyone an apology

yes, it's true, Christians still face discrimination, sometimes subtle, sometimes not. Sometimes seemingly deserved, sometimes not. Some of it brought on by the acquiescence of the moderate and liberal majority of Christians--who focus on love, tolerance, mercy, and peace--to the rabid right wing thugs who focus on hate, intolerance, vengeance, and war.
But there are few groups the last hundred years who have faced the likes of the pink triangle and random beatings, few who have endured so much as to require separately legislating crimes that are based on hate, few who have been subject to outright marginalization, as the homosexual community. So sure, validate the Christian's pain, but enlighten the Christian to the incredible substantivity of yours. Without apology.

[Midlodemocrat]

25. Tell this right wing fundie psycho that Jesus never

discriminated against gays. That it is a man-made invention based on the Old Testament.

Then tell her that Jesus would never approve of one of his beloved children being beaten up because of how they were born. It would be like beating someone up based on their eye color.

Then look her dead in the eye and 'Going to church doesn't make you Christian any more than going to a garage makes you a car'.

:hug: khash. I am sorry you ever had to go through that.

[swimboy]

26. Ah, yes. In a standing-room-only world, the favored are shown to

their waiting seats, and finding no cushion thereon, cry persecution.

[tjwmason]

30. Good morning swimboy

:hi:

Charming to see you today.

[xmas74]

27. You were not wrong.

And I understand the apologizing bit-I do it all the time even when it's not my fault. Apologizing to family members is a knee-jerk reaction for me.
You're not the only one who goes through this.

[Arkana]

28. Oh, I just feel for those poor Christians...

it must be so tough, being persecuted as members of the BIGGEST F**KING RELIGION IN THE UNITED STATES. :sarcasm:

[TrogL]

32. You cannot have a gunfight if only one person is armed

You cannot have a logical discussion if one person cannot think.

As soon as you hear the word "always", challenge their premise.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. hi khash....

you are not wrong...discrimination faced by any minority cannot be compared to any discrimination faced by the majority

sorry physical assaults for your sexual orientation is ]beyond my comprehension...

:hug: