Bicyclist unsafe this morning?

[LostinVA]

Okay, I need your opinions, because I'm sitting here wondering who was "right" this morning. Firstly, I ride, so I know how to ride a bike safely on roads, especially when it's dark.

The scenario: I'm driving to work at about 615 this morning, it's still dark. I get off of the interstate, drive up a road, get into the left-hand turn lane and sit at the red light. I get the green light (no arrow) and check the oncoming lanes. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE LANE. Nothing. Not a car, a motorcycle, a bike, no headlights, nothing. It's clear. I turn left, slowly, because the speed limit is only a max of 25 there anyway. In the crosswalk RIGHT there is a guy on a bike, RIDING INTO THE CROSSWALK FROM THE SIDEWALK. I literally slammed on my brakes and missed him by five inches, tops. The signs in the crosswalk are "Don't' Walk." The guy starts screaming at me and i tell him, "You don't have the right of way, the signs say don't walk." He screams back that bikes are supposed to be treated like cars and the light is green. I just drove off. Oh! The only light he had was a light on his helmet.

Okay, I DO treat bikes as I do a car, but this dude was (illegally in my town) riding on the sidewalk and across the crosswalk against the walk/don't walk signs. Cars don't drive down sidewalks and through crosswalks. I don't. And, as I said, it's illegal here to do so. This area has alot of bikes on teh street, so it's second nature to watch for them. I feel like I did everything as a safe driver and as someone who respects bikes on the road.

So..... opinions?

[jpgray]

1. I'm a bit confused

If you have a green light and no arrow, how could the "don't walk" light also be on for the crosswalk you made a left turn into? Maybe I'm not reading the scenario properly. Anyway, when I get a vanilla green light, I always double-check the crosswalk before turning. I'm not sure who's at fault, though.

[LostinVA]

2. No, it was "Don't Walk"

That crosswalk only has a "walk" during one cycle, it was "Don't Walk." The crosswalk was pitch black, and he didn't appear in the crosswalk until after I had begun my turn, because he shot right into my headlights. Thank Goddess for anti-lock brakes!

[JVS]

3. He was wrong to be on the sidewalk, but he still had the right of way.

Yeah he shouldn't be on the sidewalk at all, but just because he is breaking the rules doesn't mean that other drivers can decide to classify him as a pedestrian (governed by the don't walk sign rather than the traffic light), he's still biker so you still need to treat him as a car. Of course from a liability side, you'd probably be pretty safe if you had hit him because by riding on the sidewalk he made it difficult for you to see him and set up a situation where you'd be likely to hit him. If he had been riding on the street you'd have seen him coming.

[LostinVA]

6. I didn't classify him as a pedestrian, He did by being in the crosswalk

In Virginia, bikes are legally considered the same as cars, and thus are given the same traffic rights as cars. Conversely, as a bicyclist, there are certain rules you have to follow. I believe the guy this morning wanted to have it both ways -- and he can't. My point was, I couldn't treat him as a car, as he wasn't on the road and I couldn't see him, until he darted in front of my car.

This makes me so angry because I believe in bikes being treated right on the roads, and this ass just makes it that much more difficult for those that do what they are supposed to do.

[Bassic]

24. You have to treat him as a car, but he has to act like one too.

Often cyclist will ride on the wrong side of the road, or pull up to the right of cars who want to turn right while they want to go straight.

I've had a lot of problems not hitting cyclists this summer. Up here in Québec, it seems that traffic lights don't apply to a lot of them. (morans)

All this to say that, fault is probably shared :P

[Brewman_Jax]

4. You did what you could

and I'm not a fan of bikes for that very reason. Most don't follow the rules, fewer actually know the rules, and a bike will lose an argument 10 out of 10 times. You aren't at fault.

[prolesunited]

10. I'm not a fan of cars for that very reason.

Most drivers don't follow the rules, fewer actually know the rules, a vehicle will win an argument 10 out of 10 times. And, since they know it, they bully cyclists who do know and follow the rules off the road.

Want to hear how many times I've almost been run off the road or rammed into when I rightfully asserted myself?

My point is both sides have beefs because most people are assholes. I don't think either side can take the high ground. I've seen bad - and unlawful - behavior from drivers and cyclists.

The cyclists should not have been on the sidewalk, BUT, sometimes when drivers are crowding me into a craggly gutter filled with glass and other debris, I'll seek out an alternative to being run over or puncturing my tire.

I wasn't there and don't know the situation. But accidents do happen and it's best for all who *share* the road to be alert.

One benefit of the high gas prices is that I've really seen a reduction of vehicles on the road outside of rush hours. More room for us cyclists. :D

[LostinVA]

12. As I said, I ride a bike

And it was 615 and there was literally like three cars on the road. I agree with you that cars often treat bikes like a hindrance instead of a lawful vehicle, so I am soooo careful of bikes on the road.

[Brewman_Jax]

21. I knew someone would have a problem

but THIS case, the bike was wrong.

I run, want to hear how many times I have to dodge bikes on sidewalks?

Maybe this will highlight the need for bike lanes.

[prolesunited]

29. It was just the way you phrased it

As I stated, I think *both* cyclists and drivers behave badly.

I agree the bike was wrong, but I just said there might be extenuating circumstances. If I feel unsafe in a certain area, I'll go on the sidewalk (but then again, I'll also get off my bike and walk it) for example, a busy two-lane bridge or one of those bridges with grates.

There's a really busy highway intersection by my house, but I would never get in the lane to turn left. I know I would end up as roadkill, but then I get off my bike, and walk it in pedestrian-like behavior.

And I'm definitely in favor of bike lanes and designated recreation trails. I'm lucky to have one four miles from my house that I can ride to and there are plenty of others that are a short drive away. I try to stay off the streets as much as possible. It makes me too nervous and the exhaust fumes don't exactly help my asthma.

[Brewman_Jax]

30. Agreed

and you are correct in the use of the bike. I and my brothers had the rules drummed into us after I almost got hit by a car in my childhood days. Just bent the front wheel.

Murphy was right--it's not the professionals you have to worry about, it's the damned amateurs. :D

And you're right again, poor use of language. Shake?

[prolesunited]

34. No worries

We're obviously on the same page. Maybe we'll run into each other some day. :P

[kick-ass-bob]

5. If he is going to be considered a car (which he should)

he should not be in the crosswalk - he should be on the side of the road. He had the right of way, but he also endangered himself by not following the law himself.

[JVS]

7. yup

[ReadTomPaine]

8. You should have told him he could explain it to your bumper the next time.

[prolesunited]

11. Yes, running into the cyclist

would definitely show him who's boss. :eyes:

[ReadTomPaine]

16. It's a warning - he's going to pop out in front of someone who can't stop.

I didn't say run into him. That's your solution.

[Redstone]

9. Furthermore, he's an idiot for not having more lights.

Having been hit by cars several times, with the advent of cheap LED flashers, I've outfitted my bike with enough blinkage (front and back) that it looks like four wreckers and a police cruiser at an accident, even when seen from half a mile away.

No car has an excuse for not seeing me.

But there are idiots out there on bicycles, such as the one you almost clipped. I saw one at 7 last night, in the three-quarters dark, riding on US 1 with nary a light. He's begging for trouble.

Car drivers have a duty to look out for bikes. But bike riders have a responsibility to make themselves visible.

Redstone

[underpants]

13. Effective July 1 in Va. you MUST have a light when on >35MPH road

[LostinVA]

15. This I did not know

Although I already do this. A light on where, Underpants? The bike, yourself, the back? Because I think a rear solid or blinking light is a must have.

[underpants]

20. I'm looking it up

I heard this on talk radio (I know I know they normally have hour long discussion about how they coulda woulda run over them skinny bicyclist wiff der truck......etc) but it is the new law.

http://virginiadot.org/infoservice/bk-laws.asp

Equipment
Every bicycle ridden between sunset and sunrise must have a white light on its front with the light being visible at least 500 feet to the front. The bicycle must have a red reflector on the rear visible at least 600 feet to the rear. A bicycle or bicyclist may be equipped with the lights and reflectors. The lights may be steady or blinking.

Bicycles ridden on highways must have brakes which will skid the wheels on dry, level, clean pavement.

Reference: §§46.2-1015,46.2-1066
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-1015

§ 46.2-1015. Lights on bicycles, electric personal assistive mobility devices, electric power-assisted bicycles, and mopeds.

A. Every bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, electric power-assisted bicycle, and moped when in use between sunset and sunrise shall be equipped with a headlight on the front emitting a white light visible in clear weather from a distance of at least 500 feet to the front and a red reflector visible from a distance of at least 600 feet to the rear when directly in front of lawful lower beams of headlights on a motor vehicle. Such lights and reflector shall be of types approved by the Superintendent.

In addition to the foregoing provisions of this section, a bicycle or its rider may be equipped with lights or reflectors. These lights may be steady burning or blinking.

B. Every bicycle, or its rider, shall be equipped with a taillight on the rear emitting a red light plainly visible in clear weather from a distance of at least 500 feet to the rear when in use between sunset and sunrise and operating on any highway with a speed limit of 35 mph or greater. Any such taillight shall be of a type approved by the Superintendent.

[LostinVA]

14. Re: the lights

I know, I do the same thing while running while it's dark: adorn myself with an assortment of reflector vests and blinking lights. I almost clipped a runner two weeks ago -- full dark, running in the road, BLACK SHORTS AND A DARK TOP -- no lights, reflectors, etc. OMG. Scared me to death. The only thing light on him was his shoes -- that's what made me see him.

The same with the bike -- I like those little blinky lights for your helmets, too.

[underpants]

17. You are-he shouldn't be on the sidewalk (1) he didn't have the green (2)

and his maneuverability does not superseded any law (3)

I ride and several of my friends ride. Yes I do sometimes coast...look around....and go through a red light (mostly when I lived in the city) but I do know what the rules are.

Sidewalks are for foot traffic. Bicycles are considered vehicles and covered by regulations for vehicles because they are SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE ROAD.

[LostinVA]

18. Thanks, Underpants -- you make me feel better

I was so PISSED at this guy, then I was like, "OMG! Even though I ride, am I being an anti-bike driver without realizing it???" Then I got even more pissed because what he did makes us good cyclists look bad....

[radwriter0555]

32. Right, because as a 'vehicle' he's obligated to follow vehicular law and

he could conceivably get a ticket for being in the pedestrian right of way.

CARS aren't allowed on the sidewalk... niether, technically are bikes.

He's wrong, you're entirely right. He screwed up and it almost cost him his life and almost ruined yours.

[DS1]

19. As a mostly former cyclist - I'd say that if you indicated you were

making a left turn at the light and he was coming towards you then he was responsible for timing his crossing either before or after you - preferably after you.

It's the cyclists that people see and almost hit that give the rest of us a bad name - I had a habit of finding the path of least resistance and few people probably ever know I'd gone through an intersection in the first place.

[underpants]

22. Hmm Mass. law?

In Va. the bike is considered a vehicle just like the car and if on the road, in this situation, would have the right of way just like a car. Of course when riding I defer to the weight of vehicle/bone cracking consideration.

[DS1]

23. I'm not saying legally so much as commonsensically

;-)

Riding on the sidewalk is illegal, so he was committing a crime before he even got to the crosswalk

[underpants]

25. Oh okay right

that's what I meant to

I don't want to be the guy speechifying how right I was as they close the ambulance doors.

[MissMillie]

26. sounds like the cyclist was on the wrong side of the road

If he wasn't in the oncoming direction, he came from behind you, and should be on the right side of the road.

[baldguy]

27. A bicycle is a vehicle, just like a car.

They should drive in the traffic lane, obey traffic signs & lights, and - in VA at least - have adequate lighting for safty.

The question is: would a car driving on the sidewalk have the right-of-way when entering an intersection?

[taterguy]

28. You're both wrong

Yes, the cyclist was an idiot and Darwin candidate. However, it's the motorist's responsibility to make sure movements can be made safely. Suppose someone had been rollerblading or skateboarding through that crosswalk. They wouldn't have been breaking any laws but you still might have hit them. Like the cliche says: Look twice, save a life.

[LostinVA]

31. Did you read what I've written? he wasn't IN the crosswalk

when I began my turn. It was empty. He darted into my headlights from the sidewalk right after I turned and I slammed my brakes on. This is an area with many pedestrians, runners, etc., and the speed limit is only 25. So, your point is moot. There was no one in the crosswalk when I made my turn. And, if a rollerblader or skateboarder had went through the crosswalk against the light after I had started my turn, I would not have gotten a ticket (per a colleague who just called her state trooper husband).

[China_cat]

33. Not opinion...fact

according to law of all states, bicycles must obey the same traffic laws as automobiles. Some states make exceptions for those under 14, but not many.

Too bad he didn't have a license plate so you could report him.

[-..__...]

35. The worst ones are the ones who think they're Lance Armstrong.

$3,000 bikes, flashy spandex shorts and shirt, riding shoes, etc.

I had a similar situation just the other day.

Traffic on the road I was driving on was doing around 35-40 mph. I had a clear shot going through a green light (meaning no vehicle in front of me and about 200' from an intersection).

There's a pedestrian crossing at this intersection and just as I'm approaching it, a smallish group of the aforementioned Lance Armstrong wanna-bs,(about 4-5) starts riding into the crosswalk against the light.

They were pedaling at a fairly moderate clip on the sidewalk as they were approaching the intersection. I was probably about 50' when I spotted the lead bicyclist blow through the intersection.

I braked to slow down and missed the lead ass by a few feet. There was enough distance between the lead guy and his friends pedaling behind him that they were able to stop before I plowed into them. I could see the look of hesitation on their faces as if they wisely decided not to keep up with their buddy.

Of course they felt as if they were still in the right and proceeded to give me thing finger and curse at me because I had the audacity to interrupt their bicycling experience.

[underpants]

36. Roadies

Having lots of friends who are mountain bikers I hear about "roadies" all the time. They tend to be very self involved. There is nothing close to the comraderie that mountain bikers share. Maybe it is because they think they are race horses (this is similiar to sprinters in track) and the creme de la creme...or something.

The difference is noticeable.