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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:31 PM
Original message
Do English people refer to cigarettes as fags?
Or has that always been a common term for them? :shrug:
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. A "fag" is a small bit of kindling...
Cigarettes resemble these, so they were called fags.

In the Medieval times, so romanticized by Neocons, homosexuals were gathered up at witch burning time. They were thrown onto the fires to make them hotter for the burning of witches. This is why homosexuals are also referred to as "fags."

They were so low on the social order, that they were only considered as fuel for witch fires. And for the burning of heretics, too, I guess.

This is why many gay people hate the term "fag." And also why they are especially sensitive to any authorities that pursue a policy of genocide against them, such as Ronald Reagan did in the 80's.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Well, I learn something new everyday. I had no clue!
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Of course you are familiar with the Brit word "shag" and it's meaning
I was quite surprised when I came to the States to discover the Yanks had a special carpet for it!

Sod is another one. Here it's that pre-grown grass; in Britain, that's called "turf" and 'sod' is a contraction of sodomy which roughly translates to fag. Queer simply means odd or weird and has no sexual connotation.

Needless to say--after moving to the US--the first time one of my Dad's neighbors asked if he would like to come over and help lay sod, I was a little bit shocked.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Ha ha ha ha! I guess so. I never realized the difference in the language.
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. Queer does mean homosexual here too
in fact it's quite unlikely that any Brit would say "queer" to mean "peculiar" any more.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. And a bundle of those small bits
is called a "faggot".
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Always been a question in my mind why the gay community
rejects the term fag and faggot, but embraces the pink triangle since the pink triangle represents a much more recent attempt at "homo-cide" than the words of medieval origin.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. The pink triangle
is embraced because it commemorates those who died (recently) in the Nazi holocaust. It's a form of memorial. There are still plenty of people living who remember those who died--a major difference between the holocaust and the medieval period.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I can't speak for other gay folks, but
you're right--to me "fag" is the worst thing you can call a gay man in American English. I've always liked that it no longer means the same thing to the English. Seems like the worst term they have there for gay is "poofter".
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Poofter? WTF?
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well, maybe I have the spelling wrong, but
I heard it in "The Naked Civil Servant". At the end of the film, some modern-day (1970's) teenager calls Quentin a "poofter" and he turns around and lets the kid have it verbally--"I am one of the gand old queens of England!" :D
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. No, the spelling is right. "Poof" for short.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. That's what I thought.
Thanks
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. On the other hand... there are moments, between gay men, when
no one else is around -- if you get my drift -- when that word can be used in another way...
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I'm not getting your drift.
Sorry, clueless. You mean during sex, like in the heat of the moment? Don't think I've ever yelled "Oh you hot fag!" whilst in the throes.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. from what I remember
"sod" was pretty derogatory, but it was also not limited to gays.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Right
"Sod" as in, "You bloody sod, I'll kick yer arse!"

Yeah, that just means someone who's generically a complete *sshole.

Off topic, I know "arse" and "ass" are equivalent, but as an American I can't help but find "arse" kind of cute, while "ass" retains the power to actually insult. It's all relative, of course.
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Funny
Because "arsehole" sounds to my ear like an insult that is really meant, whereas "asshole" sounds like something that could also be used in jest as well as in anger.

"Arse" sounds best when pronounced by an Irish person.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. LOL!
Would that be "arrrsse" (by an Irishman)? I'm trying to auralize that but it's coming out sounding Scottish!
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. It has to be heard
Next Irishman (or woman) you meet, ask them to say "arse" for you. It'll sound exquisite, I promise!
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:33 PM
Original message
I have no doubt!
One must be delicate, in asking such a thing, however! :spank:
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. "sod" comes from "sodomite"
although it's generally used as a generic term for arsehole-- at least in the early 90s when I lived in the UK.

"fags" is still pretty frequently used as a term for cigs-- especially amongst the older crowd. the younger, more "Americanised" folk don't use it as often, but it still gets used a bit.
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. "Sodomite," as in one who practices sodomy,
as was practicised in the City of Sodom. There's a reason for everything!
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Oh, of course
I should have realized that (re "sod"). All this time I thought it might be related to sod as a word for dirt. It must be quite old, as is a lot of English slang.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. i believe it is pertty old term
i had an English friend visiting one time, and we were driving down an interstate highway in the rural part of my state. we drove by a place that grows grass for new lawns, aka a "Sod Farm".

He got a good laugh out of that one (or was it a "larf"?) :silly:
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yes, if you count the Old Testament as old!
What was the City of Sodom famous for again...?
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. LOL!!!
Edited on Fri Aug-12-05 05:36 PM by no name no slogan
:spray:

good point! i guess that would make it old!

Ah, good old Sodom. Come for the hospitality, stay for the fire and brimstone...
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. I meant "old" in terms of
how long people in the British isles have been using "sodomite" as an epithet. So, talking in terms of centuries, but not millenia. I'm guessing it was done in Chaucer's time or earlier.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Heh! That IS funny!
"Ew look, it's a bloody sod farm!"

Kind of like talking about "pants" with an Englishman--to them that's what Americans call underwear, and also now slang for anything bad (or is it good?). "That's just pants!"
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. oh yeah, that's another good one
just like "fanny"-- which means a COMPLETELY different thing over there!

I first realized this when i was visiting my friend (of Sod Farm fame) when he was at Oxford. we were coming home one night from boozing and we passed by two very comely yet very intoxicated young ladies.

One of them exclaimed "KISS MY FANNY!" as we walked by. After we got out of earshot, I remarked to my friend "i wonder why she wanted me to kiss her ass?". He then explained to me that "fanny" is actually the "other side" of that in the UK. Needless to say another chance at romance eluded me yet again that night :dunce:

But then again, i can see why the "Fanny Farmer" brand of chocolates never expanded into the UK, for better or worse
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Oh god, I never knew that!
How funny. I better not tell my mother--she's always referring to kicking people in the "fanny" when she's not pleased with them! To her it's a quaint term from yesteryear, like "derriere".
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
48. i thought the brits used "dinner masher"?
:shrug:
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I was a kid in England in the 60's
and I remember cigarettes being fags. It was also a term for being tired--short for fatigue. "Cor blimey, I am bloody fagged out!"
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Australian at Hofbrauhaus: Can I bum a fag?
My response: *snicker*
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. I dunno but when I do it...
people look at me strange.

'cus I'm american
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, and they sound so incredibly hot when they do.
Swoon.

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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I bet. Especially if it were Jude Law!
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WeRQ4U Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. My mom used to say my clothes were "fagged" when they stretched out.
I have no idea why. Maybe they looked tired?
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Huh! I have never heard that word used in a non-derogatory manner!
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes it's true
fag=cigarette
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I never knew it had an "actual" meaning. Good to know!
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. "Two countries separated by a common language"
Mark Twain, I think.

At one point Illinois actually considered making "American" its official language (as opposed to what? Mexican? :-) ).
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. George B. Shaw...
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. Canadian
up in the northern parts of Minnesota, eh, where all they can get is the CBC for TV eh, some of the kids have a distinct Cannuck accent, see?

know what i'm talking about, buddy? ;)

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SnowGoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. The bassoon is also called the 'faggato'
from the bundle of sticks meaning.
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ozymandius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. depends on the language too
In German it's faggott.

It's fun to hear an inexperienced classical music host say, "...and Klaus Thunemann was blowing the faggott."
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
49. And the English Horn is called a "Cor Anglais"
but that's neither here nor there
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. Yes we do. Over here we can go for a fag break
which in your country would attract some strange looks, I understand. :D
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Yeah, I could just see the looks on some of these faces!
}(
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. We'd be lucky if looks were all we got!! eom
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Old_Fart Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
50. And "cough" fags are puffsters
I have "cough" heard it all of my life so it has to be old.
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