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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:07 PM
Original message
Question: Any HTML Genius in the House?
If so, I need to make a left sidebar. I know basic HTML, and have just designed a multi-page site for our County and State Democrats.
http://www.icubed.com/~trz/index_wash.html

This is Washington County in Pennsylvania, so there is a Tricky Ricky Santorum page- At least a beginning of one. That's why I need a simple to use left sidebar where I can place titles, and small clipart or pics. The homepage is fine, I can deal without having a sidebar there, but I do need one for the other pages.

As you will note on the page setup, when you "view source" is that I can divide the page 33% to 67%, but I really can't make a definitive sidebar. I've looked at generators, but that's dizzying. I don't have DreamWeaver, so I'm stuck as to sidebars and vertical lines as dividers.

HELP PLEASE !

Thanks!
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Liberal Democratic discussion forum
   Replies to this thread
  - use frame definitions....  mike_c   Aug-07-05 01:09 PM   #1 
  - Stick with Tables  dutchdemocrat   Aug-07-05 01:14 PM   #2 
  - I agree... Use Tables  SkipNewarkDE   Aug-07-05 01:17 PM   #3 
  - That Sounds Easy - And Simplified...  On Par   Aug-07-05 01:19 PM   #4 
  - Actually, use CSS  salvorhardin   Aug-07-05 01:25 PM   #5 
  - So, with the CSS, I Take out my V-align, etc...  On Par   Aug-07-05 01:39 PM   #6 
  - You would have two files.  salvorhardin   Aug-07-05 01:47 PM   #9 
     - It's A One Time Favor...  On Par   Aug-07-05 02:07 PM   #20 
  - also, check out www.glish.com  no name no slogan   Aug-07-05 01:42 PM   #7 
  - Thanks!  salvorhardin   Aug-07-05 01:48 PM   #11 
     - Glish, from what I can see, is a Blog.  On Par   Aug-07-05 02:09 PM   #21 
        - Here  salvorhardin   Aug-07-05 03:22 PM   #26 
           - Thanks. Got It Figured !  On Par   Aug-07-05 07:24 PM   #27 
  - dreamweaver quickie  dutchdemocrat   Aug-07-05 01:47 PM   #10 
     - Great, one to try! Any others?  On Par   Aug-07-05 01:51 PM   #14 
  - I use tables. That way the sidebar follows the page & you can have  applegrove   Aug-07-05 01:42 PM   #8 
  - Well, If I was confused before, I'm Totally Burnt Now....  On Par   Aug-07-05 01:48 PM   #12 
     - No I can't. I'm not good enough.  applegrove   Aug-07-05 01:49 PM   #13 
        - Don't feel bad. I'm not either!  On Par   Aug-07-05 01:51 PM   #15 
           - If you want to make your whole page out of a table - then you just make  applegrove   Aug-07-05 01:56 PM   #16 
              - This one looks like the sidebar is just a table in a table. And it goes  applegrove   Aug-07-05 01:58 PM   #17 
              - They don't use the "sidebar" with frames much anymore..because it  applegrove   Aug-07-05 02:02 PM   #19 
              - Each page will have different Sidebar Topics....  On Par   Aug-07-05 02:01 PM   #18 
                 - If I didn't know what I was doing, which I don't, I'd use tables.  applegrove   Aug-07-05 02:11 PM   #22 
                    - Your Last Suggestion Is The Best !  On Par   Aug-07-05 02:26 PM   #23 
                    - Well CSS has to do with the visual presentation. If you look above,  applegrove   Aug-07-05 02:35 PM   #24 
                       - Thanks....  On Par   Aug-08-05 07:23 PM   #39 
  - The best way to build a community site  dutchdemocrat   Aug-07-05 02:40 PM   #25 
  - Those Are Great Sites You've Done....  On Par   Aug-07-05 08:00 PM   #28 
     - This one is the one  dutchdemocrat   Aug-08-05 01:28 AM   #29 
        - mambo is way to much..  Omphaloskepsis   Aug-08-05 01:39 AM   #30 
        - Mambo is too much?  dutchdemocrat   Aug-08-05 02:53 AM   #31 
        - This is very cool too!  On Par   Aug-08-05 12:08 PM   #35 
        - Okay, It's UnZipped, But Can't Find....  On Par   Aug-08-05 10:44 AM   #33 
           - There are three things you need to have  dutchdemocrat   Aug-08-05 12:55 PM   #36 
              - I've Been Grandfathered By My Host Company.  On Par   Aug-08-05 02:42 PM   #37 
  - Will an HTML average intelligence do?  Jamastiene   Aug-08-05 05:09 AM   #32 
  - Use a combination of DIV sections and CSS...  youspeakmylanguage   Aug-08-05 10:50 AM   #34 
     - I'm An Electic Code User....  On Par   Aug-08-05 02:44 PM   #38 
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. use frame definitions....
Look up <FRAME> tags.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Stick with Tables
Frames are a nightmare and not search engine friendly for the most part.

If you split your table into two columns you can just add the menu cell and recreate the content cell for every page.
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SkipNewarkDE Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree... Use Tables
Get in your HTML book or on the web and find a discussion of using Tables. Avoid frames at all costs, they are evil, wreck havoc with some browsers, and mess up search engines. For example, you can have a page that the search index indicates as a match to a particular query. But what the engine actually may be hitting is content within one of your frames, ie. a word in an index or overview. So actually clicking that returned link from the search index brings up only the html within that frame, rather than the entire page.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That Sounds Easy - And Simplified...
And that's what I'm looking for.

Since I've never done a menu cell, could you please do one, and possibly post it, or email it to me? At this point, my brain is really fried with html and trying to read all of google pages I've looked at.

Super thanks.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Actually, use CSS
Edited on Sun Aug-07-05 01:27 PM by salvorhardin
It will make the HTML much simpler and a two column layout is dead simple to do. In fact, here's an online application that will generate the HTML and CSS for you.
http://www.csscreator.com

Here's a simple two column layout with header and footer.

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd ">
<html>
<head>
<title>CssCreator-->HTML 4.01 Strict Template</title>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" />

<meta name="generator" content="www.csscreator.com " />

<link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" type="text/css" />
</head>
<body>
<div id="pagewidth" >
<div id="header" > Head </div>

<div id="wrapper" >
<div id="maincol" > Main Content Column </div>
<div id="leftcol" > Left Column </div>
</div>
<div id="footer" > Footer
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>



....and the CSS....


/* generated by csscreator.com */
html, body{
margin:0;
padding:0;
}

#pagewidth{ }

#header{
position:relative;
height:100px;
background-color:#393CFF;
width:100%;
}

#leftcol{
width:20%;
float:left;
position:relative;
background-color:#EF904C;
}

#maincol{background-color: #EFEFD0;
float: right;
display:inline;
position: relative;
width:80%;
}

#footer{
height:150px;
background-color:#FFFFFF;
clear:both;
}



/* *** Float containers fix:
http://www.csscreator.com/attributes/containedfloat.php *** */
#wrapper:after {
content: ".";
display: block;
height: 0;
clear: both;
visibility: hidden;
}

#wrapper{display: inline-table;}

/* Hides from IE-mac \*/
* html #wrapper{height: 1%;}
#wrapper{display: block;}
/* End hide from IE-mac */



/*printer styles*/
@media print{
/*hide the left column when printing*/
#leftcol{display:none;}
#twocols, #maincol{width:100%; float:none;}
}
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. So, with the CSS, I Take out my V-align, etc...
....replace it with this, and I'll have a 20/80% split?

Can you go to my Tricky Ricky page, view source, set it up and paste it here? Then I can recreate other pages from there.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. You would have two files.
The HTML file and the CSS file. The CSS file gets linked in every page (HTML file). That way, if you want to change the colors or background image on every page you can just edit the CSS file.

Sorry, not to be offensive, but the other thing you ask is what I charge people for. There are plenty of CSS references linked at the CSSCreator site, and there are thousands of CSS and HTML references on the web.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. It's A One Time Favor...
...for a guy trying to create a website for our Democratic Club who wants to oust Ricky Santorum.

To read these sites, is to first understand all the new terminology, which I don't. As you can see, I've done pretty well thus far with the site, but after four days, I've hit the wall.

Maybe you can consider it your donation to help us rid ourselves of Tricky Ricky?

Either way, thank you for what you've explained thus far.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. also, check out www.glish.com
there are some excellent examples of CSS/XHTML column layouts there-- all of them cross-browser compatable, as well.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Thanks!
Glish is what I was actually trying to recall but couldn't squeeze the memory out of the old neurons. Excellent site.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Glish, from what I can see, is a Blog.
I don't see a search or anything much to click on.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Here
http://glish.com/css
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanks. Got It Figured !
It took some time for me to get away from the computer, and let my brain absorb everything, but I came back, and damn, I got it.

Okay, at least, so far, so good on Tricky Ricky's page. Haven't uploaded it yet, but as soon as I put some links on, I'll let you know.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. dreamweaver quickie
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>columns</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</head>

<body>
<table width="100%" height="633" border="0" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="10">
<tr>
<td width="19%" align="left" valign="top"><p><a href="www.democraticunderground.com " target="_blank">democracticunderground</a><br>
<a href="http://www.test.com " target="_blank">Test</a> </p>
</td>
<td width="81%" align="left" valign="top"><p align="center"><strong>Content</strong></p>
<p>Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy
eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam
voluptua. At vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et ea rebum. Stet
clita kasd gubergren, no sea takimata sanctus est Lorem ipsum dolor sit
amet. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam
nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat,
sed diam voluptua. At vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et ea rebum.
Stet clita kasd gubergren, no sea takimata sanctus est Lorem ipsum dolor
sit amet. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed
diam nonumy eirmod tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam
erat, sed diam voluptua. At vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et
ea rebum. Stet clita kasd gubergren, no sea takimata sanctus est Lorem
ipsum dolor sit amet.</p></td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Great, one to try! Any others?
I'll try anything and everything. After 4 days of trial and error, I need total help. Thanks everyone!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. I use tables. That way the sidebar follows the page & you can have
a different one for each page. If you want to keep the sidebar separate from the changing pages..you have to do the other thing. I think I've read that people find that really frustrating.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Well, If I was confused before, I'm Totally Burnt Now....
Can anyone go to my site, right click on the background, look at the "view source" on the Tricky Ricky page, and create what you're trying to explain to me, and post it??? Please? Thanks!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. No I can't. I'm not good enough.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Don't feel bad. I'm not either!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. If you want to make your whole page out of a table - then you just make
Edited on Sun Aug-07-05 01:57 PM by applegrove
the side bar one of the column & it is stuck to the table and you cannot run it separately. But using tables is 'Old'. But it is the easiest way of doing it.

The first question to ask is if you want the sidebar to stay behind page charge after page change. You know - have all those options in the side bar stay the same so no matter where people go on your site, the side bar is always there with the options.

That is what you have to decide. Then you can find out how to do it.

The content of your page is the first choice.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. This one looks like the sidebar is just a table in a table. And it goes
away when you make a choice. This is the way it is done.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. They don't use the "sidebar" with frames much anymore..because it
bugs people.

Frames I think are when you have several different webpages rendering at the same time & you can scroll them or move on into them, individually. I would think you would not want to do frames.

As to how to do it with CSS - I don't know.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Each page will have different Sidebar Topics....
...because the topics will be about the person the page is about.

Now where do I go from there?
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. If I didn't know what I was doing, which I don't, I'd use tables.
Practice inserting tables & then inserting tables within tables. You you could just make one table and use the column on the far left or right as one cell to put the links (and put the list of links in point form) or multiple cells in your chosen column(in which case your table will have different numbers of rows in each column - you can merge or split the numbers of cells - you just highlight the column and then say merge all or split if you had dreamweaver - but doesn't microsoft office come with a WYSIWYG web page design program? You can also download dreamweaver for a month long trial - and it will erase all the work you did but you could build your template there and then cut & paste the code to the site you are working on. Once you try dreamweaver you will love it and buy it). You don't have dreamweaver so - you need a book which tells you how to make a table. Or you could go online and try & find a free download of the template.

Tables are bad form - but it is the easiest way to do it for those of us who are not skilled & bad with code.


So forget about frames - forever. Look up tables. Or get someone who knows CSS to build your page template & send it to you.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Your Last Suggestion Is The Best !
I need a CSS template!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Well CSS has to do with the visual presentation. If you look above,
Edited on Sun Aug-07-05 02:37 PM by applegrove
there was the CSS part & the structural part. So the CSS template you need needs to have both. Try cutting & pasting what that person did for you. It may work. But yes - try 'open source' in your google. It is free and not up to perfection standards - but it is all about sharing & caring & the like. And it is very simple to make a template so there should be no bugs in it.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Thanks....
Your thoughts about this were greatly appreciated.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. The best way to build a community site
Edited on Sun Aug-07-05 02:41 PM by dutchdemocrat
The best way to build a community site is to use Mambo (see www.mamboserver.com and www.mamboforge.net )

I have found it exceptionally simple to add all kinds of functions without the drain of working with code.

see www.jeffgannon.org www.chris-floyd.com www.bluehorizoncatamarans.com which I used mambo on.

Mambo has won many awards and is the leading content management system out there.

It would take you four days to learn it and managing content is much simpler in the future for both yourself and community members.

You will have to have phpmyadmin and mysql on your server in order to create the database though.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Those Are Great Sites You've Done....
Just one problem, I'm trying to downloaded Mambo but it won't let me make a new account, and I can't see which of the 4.5.2 I need to download.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. This one is the one
http://mamboforge.net/frs/download.php/6151/MamboV4.5.2...

You will need winzip to unzip it.
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Omphaloskepsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. mambo is way to much..
Use http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/b... ... This is simple with CSS and a <DIV> A CMS is overkill.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Mambo is too much?
I learnt it in a week. Depends on what you want to use your site for and how your envision it's development.

And you don't have to mess with tags etc.

I think the learning curve is worth it if you want to develop a proper content management system for online delivery. Database is the way to go. However, it takes a bit of time to learn... like all good software.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. This is very cool too!
I need time to try them. Thanks!

BTW, if you look at my Tricky Ricky page, you'll see what I've temporary come up with....

http://www.icubed.com/~trz/index_wash.html
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. Okay, It's UnZipped, But Can't Find....
..anything that even looks like an .exe file.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. There are three things you need to have
Edited on Mon Aug-08-05 12:56 PM by dutchdemocrat
One - FTP access to upload all the files.

Two - mysql on your server from your hosting company to store the database

Three - phpMyAdmin available from your hosting company

Once you upload all the files - then you have to set up the database using phpmyadmin - then follow through with the installation.

I can help you if you want - but you need to have that.

You can start by checking out the backend and frontend demos at

http://www.mamboserver.com/index.php?option=com_content...

If your hosting company offers Fantastico then you can easily set up Mambo. Or alternatively set up with a new hosting company that offers it. I use www.liquidweb.com (as little as 12 bucks a month) but here are some others.

http://www.mamboserver.com/index.php?option=com_content...

The prices at your current hosting company are ridiculous.

http://www.icubed.com /
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I've Been Grandfathered By My Host Company.
I pay no where near that. But, as not to attract attention, and have them raise my rate, I better leave well enough alone. I have 3 multi-page websites on there now!

Thanks for your time and your offer to help. It's what democrats do for other democrats.

My appreciation.

BTW, I've received hits at the site from Oregon to The Netherlands! We are being read here at the DU.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
32. Will an HTML average intelligence do?
Edited on Mon Aug-08-05 05:16 AM by Jamastiene
Just joking, I am definitely a genius. Still joking.

Okay, seriously, I would highly recommend you download Netscape, use either tables or frames and go from there. If you want it very simple, try the internet browser archive and download version 4.7x (pick one although 4.79 is the most stable) of Netscape Communicator. It's free and easy to use. If you just want a cut and paste script to use, you can try looking up Matt's script archive or one of the others that have free scripts as long as you leave their "written by" line in the script.

http://browsers.evolt.org/
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youspeakmylanguage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
34. Use a combination of DIV sections and CSS...
It's much better than frames and tables, which are out-of-date and use a bloated amount of code.
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On Par Donating Member (912 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I'm An Electic Code User....
I have a little of this, and a little of that. If you can hook me up with one clean setup with a left sidebar, I'd be grateful.
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