Yay!!! Cat #1 diagnosed with kidney failure -

[Madrone]

- a few months ago. Cat #2 diagnosed with diabetes today. Anyone want to place their bets as to what cat #3, the dog, the 3 ferrets, the sugar gliders and the cockatiel may be diagnosed with tomorrow?

[KitchenWitch]

1. Damn

Is there anything they can do for cat #1?

[Madrone]

3. He's actually doing VERY well, considering.

He's on a special, very expensive diet. His only symptom was extreme weight loss, but he eats normally, is happy, playful, etc.... so he's doing better than I could hope for. The problem with kidney failure is there's no reversal, it's all about how long you can gimp them along before they go into 100% failure and die.

Now the diabetic cat is also to be on an extreme diet - and there can be NO intermixing of the diets - and I have no idea how in the hell I am going to manage that. Cat #2 is to eat only raw poultry and fish. NO CARBS - meat only. Kinda like a kitty "Fatkins" diet.

[China_cat]

16. That's Catkins

And I'd leave out the fish completely. Too high in phosporous.

I've got some food charts if you'd like them...with 2 diabetics in the house, we've learned some work arounds; highest protein foods you can buy. Unfortunately, you aren't going to be able to eliminate all carbs. But you can keep them to a minimum and still be fine.

What a hell of a thing...one cat needing very low protein for the kidney problems and the other needing high for the diabetes. Almost a Jack Sprat dilemma.

Don't know what insulin your vet prescribed but if it's N, make sure you feed 30 minutes to an hour before shooting. N drops low, hard and fast and you need food on board to make sure that you don't end up with a hypo. Mine are now on L, but every cat is different.

[Madrone]

17. No insulin!

The vet thinks that a strictly raw meat diet will have the cat's levels back to normal in about a month. We have appointment a month from now to check him again.

Interesting about the fish. I'll check into that.

I would LOVE the food charts, whenever you get the chance.

Thanks!

[enigmatic]

2. Oh Madrone

I'm so sorry

[Kathy in Cambridge]

4. I'm so sorry

If it's any consolation, my girl kitty lived for over a year with CRF. Looks like you'll be giving a lot of shots to your fur babies. Did the vet give you a prognosis?

[Madrone]

8. Prognosis -

The prognosis is actually good for both of them - provided I keep up my end of things with their increasingly complicated diets.

My cat in kidney failure is doing GREAT - too skinny, but other than that, no sign of any symptoms. I'm really thankful we caught it before he reached the lethargic, deathly ill stage. The vet said he could take a turn for the worse in the short term, or he could easily live a number of happy hears yet. We don't know.

My diabetic kitty has a good prognosis - provided he gets the special diet. I guess diabetes in cats is no big deal (just a PITA) - and less problematic than if it were a dog.

Now I know why the little shit has been unleashing massive volumes of piss in undesirable places. His gargantuan bladder is a direct result of diabetes.

[SoCalDem]

14. My sons sweet kitty just was diagnosed with cancer and

bladder stones. He's devastated, because she's not strong enough for surgery for the bladder stones, and yet she's still spunky and playful, but the cancer will take her in the end..

The first visit with tests & diagnosis cost him $600, and for oncology and urinary surgery, we're taking thousands.. He can afford it, but Wallie is about 12 or 13, and he's not wanting to prolong her life (in discomfort) for his sake..so he's got to watch her gradually leave him.. Their other cat Joe follows her around like a puppy, and will be lost without her..

Pets always break our hearts in the end, but we cannot stop loving and taking them into our hearts & homes.. We are gluttons for punishment in the pet department

I hope your babies do ok, and that they will tell you when enough is enough.. (We lost our Skunkie to kidney failure just last month)..It's sad to not have him here with us

[wiggle-room]

5. sorry

Stay strong.

)))))))good vibes((((((((

[REP]

6. Are You Doing Subctaneous Hydration for the cat with Kidney Failure?

Subcutaneous hydration is a very simple yet very effective therapy for cats with kidney failure - even better than the special diet. Ask your vet to show you how o do it, and then be sure to do it every other day. It'll make a big difference in the quality of your cat's life and greatly extend your cat's life.

[Madrone]

9. No -

But I have the fluid on hand, and he did show me how to do it. He feels that at this point the cat will not benefit from regualr sub-q's. He said even if it takes his levels down briefly, they'll be right back up to regular by the next day.

What do you think about that, REP? I know you have experience in this area. My vet is TOTALLY cool and openminded though - so I think if he really thought it would make a difference he would have told me to go ahead with it.

[bettyellen]

10. well i did the diet and subcue and my cat lived another seven years.

feline KD? but i'd just do the subcue maybe twice a week after the first month. more if she looked dehydrated. i'm suprised they vet didn't recommend it.
and i'll tell you buying the saline + gear on the internet is less than I/4 of the price of buying it from the vets office.
good luck

[REP]

12. The Cat I Care For Was Given 2 Weeks To Live

That was in February. My mother's cats have outlived their initial prognosis by more than a year.

The cat I give subQ hydrations had a creatinine level of 8 (very bad) before getting hydrations. It is now 4.2 (normal). His first vet said that subQ wouldn't do him any good. The cat's person found another vet.

For creatinine levels over 7, every other day hydration is recommended. For levels over 10 or cats with active infections, daily hydration is recommended.

I am a kidney patient myself, and the kidney values for felines and humans are within the same ranges, and subQ hydration is a little like peritoneal dialysis (without the exhange). Without subQ, your cat will be very uncomfortable - kidney failure and high creatinine/BUN levels cause itchiness, upset/sour stomach, restlessness, etc.

[bettyellen]

13. yeah, i could always tell my cat was happier and peppier after the subcue

it doesn't sound right to me they wouldn't recommend it. it's only water, it's not like it's meds and could cause others problems.

[Madrone]

15. I don't remember what they said his levels were -

but they aren't tbat bad yet.

So far, he hasn't exhibited any of those "uncomfortable" symptoms either. Really, the only indication something is wrong is the weight loss. He's one PERKY kitty, so I think maybe *that's* why he didn't recommend sub-q's at this time.

[sleepyhead]

28. SQ fluids can be very helpful for CRF kitties.

Many of them are dehydrated - it can be subclinical, so that they don't look any different although they are in reality feeling quite puny. Giving the fluids will greatly improve your cat's quality of life. Cats are stoic by nature and won't complain about not feeling up to par. You may be surprised at how a small thing like 50 - 75 cc of fluids daily can perk up a cat and his kidneys. It's next to impossible to overdo it - any "extra" fluid will be eliminated in the urine. Also consider a good B-vitamin supplement - these cats tend to lose water-soluble vitamins (mostly the B vitamins) in their urine and increasing their intake helps keep their appetite up and can prevent development of anemia.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Aww *hugs*

[Race4Peace]

11. Well, you have this notice of your cats' conditions.

mine, on the other hand, die almost without warning.

[bertha katzenengel]

18. I'm sorry, Madrone.

for you and for the pets.

What is a sugar glider?

[Madrone]

20. Sugar Glider

And, a brief copy/paste detailing them a little more:


Sugar gliders are tiny gliding opossums from Indonesia, New Guinea, New Zealand and Australia. Wild sugar gliders live in colonies of 6 to 15 animals in tree hollows or other nests made of vegetation. They spend daylight hours cuddling in their nest. Early evening and night will find them foraging for food and protecting their tree.

An adult sugar glider is about the size of a hamster or flying squirrel, approximately 5 to 7 inches long from tip of nose to base of tail. Adults in proper body condition weigh between 3 and 4 ounces. The tail is fluffy, often curls on the end and usually is longer than the body length.

A young sugar glider is silver-gray with a black stripe that starts just above the nose leather and extends over the forehead, down the neck and back and joins the black tail. A dark stripe also runs from the outside corner of the eye to the ear. Captive-raised sugar gliders remain this color throughout their lives. Wild sugar gliders are born this color but usually become stained cocoa brown from the vegetation and tree sap in their nests. Their new coats will come in silver-gray after shedding the old coat.

The sugar glider's belly is a soft white, meeting the gray exactly at the outside edge of the fully furred gliding membranes. This gives a unique scalloped effect when they are relaxed. The sugar glider has four fingers and an opposable thumb on its hands and feet. The thumbs on the rear feet are without claws. Toes and fingers have small pads that help the animal grasp food and branches. Each toe and finger ends in a sharp claw that can hook like Velcro to nonslick surfaces.

[Madrone]

21. MY gliders (2 of the 3)

[bertha katzenengel]

24. WOW again!

[bertha katzenengel]

23. WOW!!

They are beautiful. Are they affectionate? And how do you keep them with cats?

[Madrone]

25. They are VERY affectionate -

if they get a lot of attention. Mine don't, unfortunately, since they are UP when I'm asleep. That's why I have more than one! They are a little unsure of people - but not *scared* - if you know what I mean. They will get on me though, and climb all over me, if I am awake when they are and coax them to do so.

If you spend a lot of time with them they ALWAYS want to be with you - they get very attached to their people.

My cats are AWESOME - so there's not been any problems. Actually - I think the rats I had a few years ago cured my cat's curiousity regarding anything small and furry. My rats would tear after the kitties, and bite! LOL It was funny because rats are not aggressive at all - but then they'd bully the cats. I think they knew they had to establish themselves before they became dinner! Ever since that, the kitties show almost no interest in any of the other pets that have come into the house. They even ignore my bird - after a short period of extreme fascination.

Occasionally I catch the kitties sitting around the bottom of the glider cage and gently batting at them as they tear up, down, and around the bottom of the cage. Doesn't seem to bother the gliders (I think it's a game for them) and the cats don't seem to be aggressive while doing it - so no worries.

[bertha katzenengel]

26. I hope you don't mind my questions - here's another

do you know of a web site that talks about the care of the sugars? size of cage, feeding, etc.

Because I just don't have enough pets.

[Madrone]

27. I don't mind at all!

Here's a great site, with a discussion forum:

http://sugarglider.net /


THe bigger cage they have the better - mine are in a hexagonal cage - 36 inches at it's widest point, and almost as tall as I am.

[Zuni]

19. poor cats

[realms]

22. To your cat

To your cat: You may think I'm paying too much attention to you. I'm not trying to psyche you out. I'm dreaming that I am you. Clean (distilled) water first, kick the water cycle back into action. A few drops of a herbal extract in the water bowl will free it up. I'm going to give you a version of my diet mixed into your food. If you open some of the supplement capsules they actually taste good. I want you to enjoy life with me. I'll follow you to the end.