Parents, help this childless-by-choice gal understand please

[LynneSin]

So today I stopped by the grocery store to some lunch and unforunately there is a mom in there grocery shopping with her screaming child. This kid probably started screaming the moment he arrived in the grocery store and was still at it when I left. And everytime I tried to move to another section of the store, the mom & screamer seemed to get closer to me.

At one point I was able to see the culprit, which looked to be a 2-3 year old boy in one of those kiddie carties. He was strapped in and trying to wiggle his way out while his mother was casually shopping in the meat department without a care in the world.

Now, I don't know about the rest of the world, but when I was a kid many many eons ago, my mother had very little tolerance for screaming kids. If we continued to scream we were made aware that punishment would come to us when we got home although my parents never did anything physical to us, the mere threat of "getting the belt" usually calmed us down. This was the late 60's so I know much has changed since then.

So my question to all you owners of small tykes who will, from time to time, start screaming at the top of their lungs in the middle of a public place. How do you handle it? Was this mom trying to use the ignore tactic on her child thinking the rest of the patrons of the grocery store might actually enjoy a loud eardrum piercing scream?

I just want a better understanding - I know there is nothing I can do but knowledge is always a good start

[MuseRider]

1. It is a no win situation

for everyone but the child. The point of the tantrum of course is to get your way. The best way to deal with it is to ignore it. Sometimes taking the kid out of the situation is giving the kid their way thus making it harder the next time.

When I was in that situation I left. I dealt with it in different ways but nobody likes a screaming child. If it did not stop fairly quickly I would leave. Not perfect but courteous to others.

In most cases the screaming stopped fairly quickly when I ignored it. If not we left.

Does that help? It is hard being on either side isn't it?

[JimmyJazz]

10. Actually, ignoring it isn't always the best way. I have found that

offering a child a choice is an effective way of dealing with a tantrum. "you can continue this behavior and we will leave the store and you will be in time out OR you can stop right now and I can finish my shopping and afterward we will go home and play some games -You pick and pick now." Often times when given a choice of behaviors, they will pick the best option.

I've also pulled mine out of restaurants and said, "you have a choice - we can go back in and finish our meal OR I can take you home to the privacy of your own room."

[MuseRider]

37. Right, and thanks.

It has been a long time since I dealt with tantrums. Thankfully my grown boys have outgrown them, sort of.

Restaurants, oh those were fun. I spent many dinners in the car with the kids. I simply could not make the choice to wait out the screaming in a restaurant.

Yes, I do now remember choices (where is the slapping my hand upside my face smilie when you need it!).

[Tallison]

186. self-delete

[JimmyJazz]

2. If my kids act like that, they get reprimanded for it.

Seriously. I would walk out of a store or restaurant before I let that behavior continue. I don't spank my children, but I don't reward bad behavior either.

[Taverner]

3. With my 2 yo tyke

We threaten to have a "time out" This usually stops him in his tracks. Unfortunately, this means leaving the store at that moment, and sitting in the car until hes done having his tantrum.

He will whimper, but not scream after that.

[ewagner]

4. It happened once

While we were in a department store my son wanted to visit the toy section and decieded he wanted some action figure or another (I can't remember which one). We said "No" and he pitched a fit and started screaming. I picked him up and for the first and only time, gave him a firm swat on the bottom and said, "That's it, we're going home." He stopped screaming and I carried him out of the store without saying a word. It never happened again.

The message was clear to him: That behaviour isn't tolerated and there ARE consequences.

Like I said, I never had to do that again.

on edit: he was three at the time.

[maddezmom]

5. actually as a mom of 2 small children

not "owners of small tykes"

I use the 3 strike rule...if by the 3rd time I've asked nicely to quiet down and it doesn't happen....I leave the store, restaurant etc. My daughter is usually the "culprit" so to speak and she understands at almost 5 what is expected of her. If she causes a scene there are consequences. They vary, perhaps no swimming, no TV, etc.

What kind of knowledge are you looking for? I'm a bit confused.

[LynneSin]

12. Maybe I'm just trying to understand if this is normal

to allow a kid to scream for 20+ minutes. I'm suprised the poor kid didn't pass out from lack of oxygen from all that screaming

[Lorien]

20. A friend called me last night from a restaurant

he was waiting for a table and I could hear blood curdling shrieking from a child over his own voice. He said that the child was ACROSS THE RESTAURANT and no where near him. He called again after he was finished eating and was leaving the restaurant-and the child was still screaming at the same ear splitting decibel level! He said that the kid hadn't let up ONCE the entire time he was there (40 minutes)! It does seems like some kids challenge the laws of their own biology...

[maddezmom]

27. I'd say it's not normal...but I see it all the time, too

My son is autistic and his time limit in a store or a restaurant is limited. Knowing his limitations, I work around them.


We were out last night with some friends at a local kid friendly place...when son acted up/or was in distress...either my hubby or I would take him to an area of the restaurant that was empty to calm him down. My hubby and I are usually never seated at the same time at dinner.

[Telly Savalas]

154. Even if it was proper parenting to let a kid scream for 20 minutes...

it is completely disrespectful and rude to the other patrons of the store. The kid should be removed from the store. I can't speak for other parents, but I don't take my daughter to grocery store parking lots as a place to play and hang out. We tend to think of them as rather boring places. So leaving the store and going to the parking lot to let the kid cool down is in no way caving and teaching the kid that tantrums get them what they want.

[Lorien]

6. One of my close friends with two young boys handles it thusly:

She either a.) takes the child outside, gets down to the the child's eye level and makes eye contact while calmly explaining that the child will get a "time out" or other punishment if he can't do as his parents ask and control himself, or b.) she takes the child into the bathroom and does the same thing, or c.) she takes her children home.

I grew up in the late 60's and early 70's-a child of two bona fide "hippies"-and I, too, can't recall seeing the sort of antisocial and wildly out of control behavior that is commonplace with many of today's children.

[stanwyck]

167. I used similar tactics when

my twins were little. And I did have to bail from a few stores. I would just airlift the kid out to the parking lot. Many times, the child is just exhausted. I've seen parents in the grocery store with their child at 10pm at night. Everybody is tired. Mom, Dad, Child. And that's a recipe for frustration. But I couldn't handle being in a store with a "howler monkey" (as my 21-yr. old daughter calls them) child. I'd bail. And when Mom and Child were both calm, we'd return and finish our shopping.

[LeftyMom]

7. I take the little bugger outside

or have LeftyDad do it, if distraction and avioding triggers doesn't work. Kids don't like screaming thier heads off anymore than we like them doing it, but some kids get really overstimulated and have no other coping mechanism.

Grocery stores seem to be a common trigger, all those tempting treats, harsh lighting, incessant noise and a distracted parent aren't exactly a recipie for a good mood. So I keep LeftyKid out of stores that are a problem, in our case Safeway is the instant meltdown place, and go to places with gentler light and less noise.

I assume the mother was either trying to ignore the kid (trust me, doesn't work) or had no choice but to do her grocery shopping then. Nobody wants to be the mother of the screaming kid. We always go shopping as a couple so one of us can handle LK and one the shopping if he hits the ceiling, but I know not all people have that luxury.

[havocmom]

8. Her mistake was not using the ignore tactic with tantrums much earlier.

The kid would know it wasn't an effective tool by two or three. Kids are very bright. If a method does not work for them consistently, they will abandon it pretty fast. Every interaction with a child is a learning experience for that child.

Behavior modification does work. But she should not subject everyone in the store to the spike in bad behavior which generally accompanies the initial phase of the practice.

Also, some people simply do not allow for how fast a child can get tired and overtaxed in hot summer weather. Running errands can be rough on a kid in summer if the parent refuses to accept that a youngster has need of play, food, naps and attention a bit more often than the average 30 year old. Too often, I see parents expecting a very young child to keep up with their lifestyle instead of modifying it (for a few short years) to accommodate the needs of the kids.

[redqueen]

15. Amen!

Parents expect kids to act like adults WAY too early.

[bobbieinok]

185. in restaurant, riding bus, shopping in clothing stores, etc I always took

paper, crayons and pencils, color books, etc.......not all every time but a variety each time

I never could understand how you could expect a young child to be somewhere over a period of time with nothing to do.....

restaurant was usually lunch area at Woolworth's or similar place NOT at high traffic time

[progmom]

25. very well said

[havocmom]

29. Why, thank you.

I love kids and watch them closely. Raising them well is a gift to them and they are entitled to it. Letting them rule the roost, not accept consequences for behavior or allowing them to make lifestyle choices too young is NOT a kindness nor does it help them grow to be lovable and productive people. Case in point: look to the present occupant of the WH.

[DemExpat]

62. Yes, I like your style.

And tactics of taking their needs into consideration (respect) while planning my day and the things I needed to get done allowed me to avoid this type of behavior in public.

I made sure that we all were in the mood for something before doing it.....more or less.

DemEx

[grace0418]

30. That's what I was trying to say, but you said it better.

I think parents have to understand that having a child will change their lives. I don't have a child, and if I want to run errands for an entire day without stopping for lunch I can do that. And when I go into a grocery, I can do so with the expectation that I will be able to stay until I'm done shopping unless some emergency comes up. But parents cannot. That's just part of the commitment you make. Responsibilities go along with the rewards.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. This woman taught me how to train my dog...she KNOWS!

[havocmom]

38. LOL, to be fair, dogs are quicker studies that small, young humans

and you would probably get in trouble if anyone saw you wrestle a small child to the floor and bite his/her ear!

But, if nobody caught you, you WOULD have a well behaved youngster that any dog would be proud to call his own!

NSMA! Thanks for the endorsement. I love seeing Cocoa's pic in your posts!

[samdogmom]

169. That comment makes me laugh!

I found a dog was good training for a child! My first dog did far worse things than either of my two children ever did. We got our "permissive--what will be, will be" attitude out of the way before the kids. The dog quickly taught us that discipline is essential!

As far as grocery store tantrums go--we've left a few half full carts parked on the side of an aisle and made a fast get-away. (But first I tried to put back any perishables---sorry for the work restocking the other stuff...)

Anyway, I only experienced a few of these meltdowns and I left the store immediately because I was very worried about the other people in the store. Kids are quick learners. They rarely repeated this behavior.

For me, if I anticipated a problem, I discussed it before we entered the store and laid out consequences for poor behavior before we even started shopping. This was particularly important when we shopped for birthday gifts for other children and in shoe stores.

[wtmusic]

132. Exactly

The longer you wait, the harder it is.

Timeouts are exactly analogous to jail time for an adult.

[libhill]

9. I'm not a model father but

I can say this, I was fortunate that my two kids were always fairly well behaved, as are my grandkids. As for myself, as a baby boomer, if I pulled a tantrum stunt like that in my day, I got my ass whipped when we got home. My parents would never have put up with it. But it did me no harm, I think it taught me that there are right ways and wrong ways to behave in public.

[redqueen]

11. Mine *never* scream

If they did, I'd leave immediately.

When they started whining I tell them I won't bring them next time, that they won't get an expected treat later, or that I'll take away some privilege. Works every time.

I don't get the "ignore" tactic... I've seen so many cases where it doesn't seem to be helping AT ALL, and have seen up-close cases where the kids seemed to get worse over time... yet still all the parents did was ignore the kid.

[Debi]

44. *never* - do you live at Lake Woebegon?

*snicker*


on edit:

Garrison Keillor's Lake Woebegon where, "All the men are strong, the women are beautiful, and the children are above average."

[redqueen]

47. hahaha... might as well!

I'm blessed, really... we used to get compliments from the other diners at restaurants when they were toddlers.

They are so well behaved... when they want to be.

[Debi]

49. I didn't want to post that I never had that problem,

but I never had that problem and still don't (he's 16 now). Not that we don't have other teenager problems, but he minds, has manners, doesn't lie and has NEVER been in trouble at school or at friends houses.

I figured someone would say, "Yeah, right, you're kid is perfect". Nah, I'm just a great parent.

[redqueen]

54. Fuck em!

I figure it's part luck, part good parenting. Either way, I'm fuckin braggin!

[Debi]

58. Woo Hoo!!

[kick-ass-bob]

13. My kids get duck-taped for that.

Actually, they get snatched out of the seat and taken to the bathroom until they can control themselves. We don't tolerate public displays of eardrum piercing.

[Coventina]

14. Ignoring a screaming child is rude on the parent's part

I don't care what the discipline gurus say about how ignoring tantrums is the best way.

If you want to ignore it in the privacy of your home, fine. But don't subject the public to your little monster's screams. It's just rude.

[LynneSin]

18. I'm assuming the mother is to blame for the poor ignore tactic

I don't know that much about parenting but I do know the kids are quick learners if the parents give in too quickly when they try ignoring their screaming children.

[youspeakmylanguage]

59. Bravo! (n/t)

[Debi]

16. The shopping still has to be done and if the kid won't shut-the-hell-up

then the best mom can do is shop quickly and get the kid home (hopefully to deliver some sort of discipline for outrageous public behavior).

If Jr. thinks he can stop mom from doing something he doesn't enjoy (like shopping) by throwing a tantrum then he'll do it all the time. If he finds out mom's gonna shop anyway (and dole out some discipline when they get home) maybe he'll learn to deal with the fact that he may have to be somewhere he doesn't like sometimes.

Otherwise, wouldn't we have 35-year-olds screaming and crying as they rode on the subway to their offices?

[Lorien]

23. We do have 35 year olds throwing tantrums

it has many names; "road rage", "right wing radio", etc.

[Debi]

26. I stand corrected

[maddezmom]

28. Kroger here in Houston have play areas for children

You have to sign up and whatnot, but they have folk that watch your kids while you shop and it's free. I've never used it, but seems like a great idea.

[Saphire]

136. I used something similar in Dallas...it was great.

[Burma Jones]

17. We would....

first try to address our kid's complaint. That usually worked. If it didn't, one of us would take the kid out to the car and wait. We tried to make sure we did our shopping alone usually.

[Texasgal]

19. ...

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

21. hey lynne, not trying to be nitpicky....

but some people might get offended at the "owners of small tykes" word choice you used. I would venture parents don't like to think of themselves as "owners" of their kids...

[jobycom]

34. Oh yes we do! I want to believe I own MY tykes

Because I know in truth they own ME!

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

39. "own" just seems a little weird

My parents don't "own" me...

[jobycom]

41. The word has many nuances, not all of them drastic.

I own cats, cars and kids, but in very different ways. I also own up to mistakes, from time to time. (rarely, though.)

[Tallison]

188. Sorry, don't "own" my cats, either

Or anything else living for that matter...

[grace0418]

22. I know what you mean.

Also childless.

In their defense, I know that many of my friends and relatives that have had children tell me that you tend to become immune to the noise after awhile. Even other people's screaming children don't affect you as much as they did before you had children. Which I can understand because my cat it extreeeeeeeeeeeeeemely chatty and meows constantly at me (not in pain, not hungry, just chatty). I sometimes don't even notice it until my husband says "Good lord, that cat has been screaming for 20 minutes now!"

Having said that, and trying to be sympathetic to harried parents trying to get some chores accomplished, I still think 3-5 minutes of screaming is the absolute threshold. If the child cannot or will not calm down, then the parent should leave the store until the child can calm down. Even if that means going home and being out of toilet paper or milk.

Sorry, but that's just how I feel. It just seems to me that some parents think that their lives don't have to change at all after they have kids. Or that everyone in the world must share the burden of raising their children. Or even that everyone in the world is going to think little Johnny is just as precocious and adorable as they do when he's running around like a maniac in a store. Not all parents, mind you, but some. And believe me, I appreciate how hard it is to be a parent, which is why I have chosen not to be one just yet. But if and when I do decide to have a child, I'll go into with the full understanding that my husband and I are the only ones who are required to listen to that child scream. Everyone else should not have to endure it.

[jobycom]

40. There are times

with every child where you have to let them scream themselves out to prove that they won't win by doing it. When the parent responds every time to a child's screaming, the child learns to use that, too. If the child is screaming to get the parent to leave the store, and the parent does, then the child has learned to scream the next time, too.

As a parent, your concern is your kid, not the opinions of others around you. We learn to ignore disapproving glances. And sure, there are parents who just don't care that their child is screaming. But once you have kids, you realize that's a very small percentage. The Mom could have left the kid with grandparents or friends, if her goal was to continue her life without worrying about the kid. Screaming kids are much harder to ignore than cats.

[grace0418]

45. I understand

that your first priority is your child.

But where I disagree is that it's better to remain in the store just to teach your child a lesson. By staying and being allowed to scream, they may not "get their way" but aren't they also being taught there's no difference between public and private behavior and a complete disregard for basic manners? I don't understand how teaching a child to ignore the disapproval of others when they are acting inappropriately in public is any better than letting them get their way. Why should everyone else have to suffer because someone decided to have a child?

I think I'll be more inclined to follow the advice of others that say take the child out immediately and punish them by taking away a treat, or leave the kids with a sitter.

The cat analogy was just to say I can see what my friends and relatives are talking about. Not that I think they are the same. In fact, I fully agree with you that "screaming kids are much harder to ignore than cats," which is why I wouldn't subject other people to my screaming child and ignore their disapproval. Sorry.

[jobycom]

56. Not just first, but only

I wouldn't agree with a parent who ALWAYS let a child scream in a store, but we have no idea what the background here was. Sometimes letting your child see that he won't win is the best tactic. A child that knows you will ALWAYS give in if he starts screaming in a store will ALWAYS use that as a method to defeat you in a store. You show the child that you won't be intimidated, and he is less likely to waste his energy, and hopefully, he begins to learn boundaries.

Of course there are times when the message you want your child to learn is public behavior, and then you focus on that. You can't teach your child everything at all times, though.

The secret to children is remembering that they are people. You deal with them as the situation requires, not based on a set of rules. Sometimes, that means letting the child win (sometimes you want your child to win, so they don't learn to accept defeat too easily). Sometimes it means letting the child scream his fool head off. A child is a little friend, and just like with your grown friends, you have to know them to know how to deal with them.

Being a parent is a lot different than it looks from the outside. I've never seen a book or movie or tv show that captures it very well. It's like living a life for two people, instead of for yourself. Or three, or however many kids you have.

[southlandshari]

83. Please tell me you are a father...

...or if not, that you plan to be one day - you will make a GREAT one!

I have a six-year-old daughter, and agree with your post 100%.

[jobycom]

96. Six year old and twelve year old daughters

And thank you. My kids are my life, my identity, and the source of all my pride. And right now they are in Mississippi visiting grandparents, and I am lost puppy!

[Debi]

107. Go have sex

At least that's what we do when our son is away!

[jobycom]

118. Need a partner for that

Well, I guess I really don't, but it would be more fun that way.

[Debi]

122. Can't help you there

[jobycom]

127. Oh, alright

You're off the hook...

[Debi]

133. Whew

almost got into a little trouble there.

[jobycom]

139. Or a lot--

And now that I've pushed the mods a touch further than I should have, I'll stop, I promise!

BTW, cool smiley!

[southlandshari]

124. On edit: On second thought...

...never mind - don't want to get someone else's thread locked!

[jobycom]

126. WIsh I'd read the first thought!

:ROFL:

[southlandshari]

128. Truth be told

I sort of wish you had read it, too.

[jobycom]

141. Now I'm definitely

ing!

[southlandshari]

123. ROFL!

[Debi]

137. Howdy!

Haven't seen you around much, I've been being good...I swear!

[southlandshari]

166. Where the heck have you been?

You were supposed to be my new best friend, and then you just disappeared!

And the damn phone has been ringing off the hook for you, BTW. Would you please pick it up while you are around?


http://www.killsometime.com/humor/humor.asp?humor=Banan...


Ring, ring, ring.....

[Debi]

171. All I can say to you is.....Weeeeeeeeee

http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/squirrel.htm

Hopy you like the new earworm!

[southlandshari]

180. Speechless.

That is the goofiest thing I've ever watched.

Gonads and strife.



Enough said.

[grace0418]

110. Well, I know everyone who has kids says that those that don't can

never understand. But I believe that others should not have to suffer the consequences of my decision to have a child. Just because I am required to be patient with my child as a condition of being a parent does not mean I have the right to force my child's bad behavior on others in public. My rights as a parent end where other's eardrums begin (sorry, I couldn't resist ).

[jobycom]

125. I hear you, but you're forgetting one person in the equation

The child is not an object. He or she is also a person, and has rights, and that's the person the parent is concerned with. The parent has a responsibility to the child first, to the others in the store only after that. (our responsibility to ourselves usually gets abandoned when the child learns to walk!)

And I've never said parents should always just let their child scream. I've said that sometimes that's the right solution. There's a post downthread that illustrates my point. Someone talked about their child becoming unruly for a while, and them having to let the kid scream for fifteen minutes in a store. After that, they stopped having the problem. If the parent had continued to give in to the child, taken her outside, and never taught her the lesson she needed to learn, then even more people would have had their eardrum rights violated in the future, when the child repeatedly did what had worked every time before.

Also note, we are talking about a grocery--not a movie, or a restaurant, or symphony. That would be very different, since people had paid money to attend, and their ability to get their money's worth out of it would be ruined by a screaming child. A grocery store is free to attend, anyone can leave at any point, and the only thing the screaming child is ruining is the Muzak--for which the child could rightfully claim a reward, I think.

Kids don't misbehave on cue. You go to the grocery with the child you have, not the one you sometimes wish you had (apologies to Donald Rumsfield). You can't schedule your disciplinary moments. You can't schedule much of anything else, either.

[grace0418]

196. I never said the child is an object.

But you said yourself that you as a parent are living their life as well as yours. Therefore you are responsible for their behavior. The parent that chooses to ignore their screaming child for longer than 5 minutes or so is basically forcing everyone else in the store to also be responsible for teaching that child a lesson. Why should other people have to choose between suffering or leaving if your child is causing the problem?

And, in the case of employees (which I was at one time), they CAN'T leave. They have to try to concentrate on their work while this lesson is being taught. Which is bad enough when you're trying to stock or ring people up, but can be downright dangerous when you're operating a meat slicer in the deli and get distracted by an ear-piercing shriek. Believe me, if *every* parent let their child "scream for fifteen minutes in a store" even once, that would be enough to drive every employee there insane. It's the same principle as littering. One person doing it one time causes little harm. A thousand people doing it one time each makes a huge mess.

I know that people aren't saying to themselves "Hey, looks like little Tyler is about to blow a gasket, time to head to the grocery!" I know these things don't happen on schedule or at convenient times. I took care of my nephew full time for my brother after his divorce, so I understand when they happen it's usually very, very inconvenient. But when he acted up in a public place, we left until he could calm down. I just can't see forcing others to deal with my problem or leave.

[Taverner]

24. 90% of tantrums have to do with a block in communcation

Toddlers act out as a last resort - they are just like anyone else and do not enjoy having tantrums. They don't like spending the energy in doing such, and will only do so as a last resort, or if there is a reward for doing so.

So the hard part is for the parent to find and establish a line of communication. What does the child want? If the kid says they want a cookie, what is it they really want? If it is indeed the cookie, it needs to be communcated that they can't have one now, but after dinner or whenever they will get a cookie - and if they continue to act out they will not get a cookie. If the kid understands this, they calm down.

However, establishing that line of communcation to a child who has very limited communication skills is not easy....

[MissB]

32. Maybe it was the nanny

and she just didn't give a shit.

[Debi]

138. Too busy having sex with Jude Law

[jobycom]

33. First of all, when you have a small child, your LAST concern is what

people around you think. Your first concern is the child, and what you think is best for them. Or it should be--there are bad parents, of course.

It's impossible to know what the parent was thinking, or what happened before. She could have been lazy, she could have just not known what to do, she could have reached a point where she was overwhelmed. It happens. Or it could have been a strategy. Maybe the kid is used to getting what he wants by screaming, and she is trying to prove that he can't anymore. Maybe the kid has spent time with a grandparent or a separate father and gotten away with too much. Or maybe this has something to do with the kid himself. Every kid is different, and no one else knows that kid more than the parent or caregiver who spends the most time with them.

Personally, I wouldn't keep my kid in a store if she were screaming like that, but then again, the kid may have been screaming just because he wanted Mom to leave the store. In that case, giving him what he wants would only encourage him to scream louder next time. You just can't know.

[youspeakmylanguage]

57. That is exactly what is wrong with Americans today...

In a civilized society, civilized people must be considerate of other people when sharing a public space. Just because you are a parent of a small child does not excuse you or the child from making that public space inhospitable to others. I don't care what the proper parenting solution is for dealing with a screaming kid. If your child screams, get him or her the hell out of the store, restaurant, etc.

I refuse to accept that being the parent of a small child allows anyone special rights. During a recent NASCAR event, I had parents try to bring their small children into our 21+ nightclub just because they didn't want to stand in the reasonably short lines at one of the plentiful Port-A-Johns outside. Then they had the gall to get pissy with me when I refused to let their kids come inside a (somewhat) rowdy club to "wee wee". Some of them stood outside with their tykes in hand and just glared.

You, as parents, are not special. Your kids are not special. Get over it.

[jobycom]

90. You do point out exactly what is wrong with society

People are only concerned with themselves. You see someone trying to raise a child, and you worry only about your own comfort level. You wouldn't let a kid in a club to use the bathroom. You'd complain if the kid stood outside and screamed because her acorn-sized bladder hurt because she couldn't go pee, or because she peed on herself because you wouldn't let her in and she couldn't hold it to wait through the long portapottie lines.

A parent letting a kid scream to try to teach the kid a lesson is worried about someone other than himself. Someone making a kid piss on herself because he doesn't want to be bothered with a reasonable request or who whines about a kid screaming in a store when he has no idea why the kid is screaming is thinking only about himself. And that is EXACTLY what is wrong with this nation. Having no child is not an excuse to be a jackass.

[youspeakmylanguage]

97. I didn't let the kids in the club...

...because I don't want them to be trampled by drunks dancing, or have beer spilled on their heads, or hear someone yelling a string of profanity over the music - not to mention that the music is so loud that I have to wear industrial-strength earplugs. I was the one actually looking out for the kids. No one pissed themselves. But if the kid was hurt or slipped on spilled beer, guess who would have gotten their asses sued off?

But hey, I'm just a jackass concerned with myself, right?

Notice I said their were plenty of Port-A-Johns outside with reasonable lines. It was a matter of the parents thinking they didn't have to listen to me or even consider the environment to which they were subjecting their kids.

A parent letting a kid scream in a public place to "teach a lesson" is only teaching a lesson to the people around them - that the parent is an inconsiderate ass.

Being a self-rightous parent doesn't excuse you from blowing your top without really reading the contents of a post.

[jobycom]

104. I read the contents rather closely, to be sure you had actually

declared that people like me were what was wrong with society today.

I stand by my follow up, and don't think you made any points to contradict it. You pointed out more ways that you would be inconvenienced, but I don't see how that undermined my point. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[youspeakmylanguage]

106. If you don't understand what's wrong with...

...allowing small children access to an urban nightclub, then your judgement is in question, not mine. I think anyone who isn't blinded by self-righteousness can see that.

Stand by anything you want. If this is your attitude towards the world - that having a kid entitles you to go anywhere and force others to tolerate your screaming kids and their feelings be damned - then yes, you are what's wrong with society today.

BTW: I take great offense at the suggestion that I forced children to urinate in their pants because I didn't want to be "inconvenienced". That didn't happen and it was obvious from the original post that I didn't put any children in that position. Their parents did by refusing to stand in the REASONABLE lines for the Port-A-Johns.

[jobycom]

116. Well, then, I guess I am

I am of the belief that my duty to society is best served by raising a good kid, more than by worrying about the comfort level of someone who may be near me when my child throws a tantrum. Your only concern is yourself. If, under those parameters, you think I'm the problem, then I gladly accept being the problem, and wish there were more problems like me.

As for the club--that should be up to the parent. Your concern wasn't the kids, it was yourself. Don't go changing your story--I read your first post, even if you haven't. It was about how inconvenienced you were by parents, not about how parents could best help their children.

[youspeakmylanguage]

119. You've grasped absolutely nothing...

...and this is a huge waste of my time. I was obviously expecting too much when I expected a civil apology. I'm leaving before I say something that will get me banned because you simply aren't worth the hassle.

Peace!

[jobycom]

142. Actually, I was

the one hoping you'd apologize.

Peace.

[leftofthedial]

35. I found the cattle prod and garden clippers worked remarkably well

only had to use them once.

This is a symptom of a deeper, bigger problem. You don't solve it at the public place. You raise a kid with respect for themselves and others.

[havocmom]

42. "You raise a kid with respect for themselves and others."

THAT should be on every birth certificate! Excellant line!

Respect of self enables a kid to learn early to have bounderies and value themselves. That validates the innate sense of justice children have and helps them feel secure. They will be less likely to become victims in their later years. They will have a better chance of maintaining their sense of dignity and define themselves rather than allow others to do define them.

Respect for others, also reinforces the concept of acceptable boundries and teaches there are consequences and responsibilites.

[Midlodemocrat]

36. My kids never did that.

Seriously. They learned very early on that tantrums wouldn't get them anywhere. I would never subject an entire store to a scene like that. Kids get the message pretty quickly; if there are consequences for certain actions.

Now, that being said, I have had on more than one occasion, a screaming infant. When we moved here everything was so far away and even though I tried to time the feedings right, it didn't always go the way I intended.

[48pan]

43. It's the parents...

Stupid parents raise stupid kids. If the parents don't know how to handle a screaming kid, the kid will scream more. I'll bet this screamer was used to getting his way most of the time when he screams.

Anybody with a brain starts ignoring screams early on and the kid quickly learns that screaming doesn't work.

[LynneSin]

48. Bet the kid will grow up voting republican too

[48pan]

64. More likely he won't vote at all.

[Zomby Woof]

46. Ooooo!

[Debi]

52. Do you think this will rate up there with CHICKEN and FAT ACTRESS?

[Zomby Woof]

55. This subject predates BOTH of those!

I did a thread once on the kiddie shopping carts when a kid was screaming from one in every aisle his mother wheeled him. I was less diplomatic than Lynne, and wow, was that an awesome thread.

I have nothing more to say on the subject. I said 20 years worth way back when.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

117. omg I HOPE SO

[youspeakmylanguage]

129. Do you know what your Japanese smileys are saying? (n/t)

[Debi]

140. See post #119

I thought you left.

[youspeakmylanguage]

143. It didn't mean I left the thread - it meant I left the conversation..

If you don't want to talk to me, that's cool. Put me on ignore.

[Debi]

155. I'm having too much fun with you

If you don't want to talk you put me on ignore.

[youspeakmylanguage]

159. Nope! You have to demonstrate an insane amount of stupidity...

...and arrogance first. My ignore list is only a couple pages long as it is.



This Buds for you!

[Debi]

163. *snark*

[youspeakmylanguage]

165. Right back at'cha...

[cally]

50. I did this once

My child had two to three all out temper tantrums. I handled the usual whining, short crying jags, or anger at doing something she didn't want the way many here suggest. I left the store until she calmed down and then gave choices. Either cooperate or lose something. At about 2, she had all out temper tantrums. Nothing gets through. The first time she wanted a workmen's tools at our house. I grabbed her and put her in a room and she just cried on the ground until she fell asleep. (Yes, I tried the normal things to end it.) A few weeks later she tried it in a store so I took her out. She never calmed down and it was extremely hot in the car so we went home. She had an all out temper tantrum in the cereal aisle of the grocery store the very next time. I walked away and turned my back on her and pretended to nonchalantly shop. I remember it vividly but I waited it out. About 15 minutes later she came for me and we continued to shop although I didn't buy much because I wanted out of there. That was the last temper tantrum.

I don't know what that mother was doing or why, but I'm empathetic.

[Greyhound]

51. My solutions

First, I only act when in an environment where kids are not really appropriate, such as a crystal & linen restaurant.

I go to the manager and ask him/her to take care of it, this is usually enough, but occasionally they're too chicken to do anything. Next I inform the manager that if they don't take care of it I and my party will leave and we don't expect a bill, the loss of $500 - $600 is enough to properly motivate them.

Once, there was no manager available (probably hiding in the office to get away from the cacophony), I was with a group of 7 or 8 and we were just out for drinks and conversation, Well, we had had enough so we decided to leave. On the way out I presented our check (about $400) to the blissful couple with our thanks for ruining the evening, and left. I've always wondered if the restaurant ate it or the breeders were embarrassed into paying.

[Debi]

53. Um, this was a store...the restaurant flame wars were last week.

[Telly Savalas]

80. Wait. I thought 3rd Wednesday of the month was when we have...

the kid in restaurant flamewars. Skinner needs to post a schedule or something.

[Debi]

89. Some whoohaww would just protest on the wrong day

and mess the whole schedule up anyway.

[youspeakmylanguage]

61. You are the wind beneath my wings.

Once, there was no manager available (probably hiding in the office to get away from the cacophony), I was with a group of 7 or 8 and we were just out for drinks and conversation, Well, we had had enough so we decided to leave. On the way out I presented our check (about $400) to the blissful couple with our thanks for ruining the evening, and left. I've always wondered if the restaurant ate it or the breeders were embarrassed into paying.

[redqueen]

63. So, because their kids made noise, you shouldn't have to pay?

That's pretty fucked up, as is the term "breeders".

[youspeakmylanguage]

66. If the management of the restaurant refuses to have the screaming kid...

...removed then it is the fault of the restaurant manager and the offending parents. I probably wouldn't do it myself because the manager might dump it on the waiter or waitress, but I think it's a great idea.

Someday, if I ever own a restaurant, I'm going to ban kids under the age of 7 from even stepping foot in the door.

"Breeders" seems polite to me. With some of the brats I see in public, I would use the term "spawning".

[Debi]

67. nice generalization of all people with children

I understand your need to go out for a $400.00 dinner after an entire day of being perfect.



on edit: I see that you were not the one with the $400.00 dinner tab, my apologies for any offense.

[youspeakmylanguage]

68. EDIT: Apology accepted.

Nobody claimed anyone was perfect. But let me know the next time you go out in public. I'll follow you around screaming at the top of my lungs.

[redqueen]

73. Some kid needs to puke on you.

Think that'll make you appreciate the screaming a bit more?

Kidding! Just trying to lighten things up a bit.

[youspeakmylanguage]

76. If a kid puked on me, the parents had better cough up for drycleaning...

...or else I'd see them in court.

But I never get close enough to kids for that to happen, except maybe in check-out lines.

[redqueen]

79. Rich? Don't have much going on?

Seriously... small claims court for drycleaning expenses?

[youspeakmylanguage]

85. I was kidding too...

But if nice clothes are ruined, are you just supposed to accept a verbal apology?

[redqueen]

99. Nah... just wipe some on them.

Glad you were joking... I was about to say

[youspeakmylanguage]

100. Seriously, though...

...if someone's kid puked on you and ruined your clothes, wouldn't you expect the parent to compensate you? That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[redqueen]

101. Yes, it is reasonable.

However, if they balked because they were poor, I doubt I'd sue them over it.

[youspeakmylanguage]

102. Exactly... (n/t)

[Hugin]

112. How often has that happened... "In the real world"?

Is this an issue?

Maybe I missed it.

[youspeakmylanguage]

115. I don't know...does anyone have statistics?

Has anyone checked Zogby?

I mean, it's not like we could be discussing a hypothetical.

[Hugin]

147. As hypothetical as a disruption by children in a "linen and crystal"

restaurant?

Hardly ever happens.

[youspeakmylanguage]

149. Do you have statistics to back that up? (n/t)

[Debi]

86. Deal...if you pick up my dinner tab

I'll wear ear plugs.

(and visit you in the county jail after the management has you removed)

[Greyhound]

92. No, because the parents allowed the kids run around screaming and

disturbing the other patrons, I don't have to pay.
When dining out I'm not paying for the food & beverage, I'm paying for the experience, the ambiance, the Chef's talent, etc. This behavior ruins those elements, thus devaluing the experience, so they should pay.

I was being kind, using the term breeder, if it offends, I'm sorry, but I will not be dictated to people that feel some entitlement just because they perform a biological function that gives them a sense of superiority.

[Hugin]

69. "kids are not really appropriate"... Oh?

Where would you keep fellow human beings? Gitmo?

Sorry, they've got as much right to be anywhere as
anyone else. Something about the 1st Amendment.

[youspeakmylanguage]

71. Wrong...

The 1st Amendment does not prevent a restaurant manager from ejecting a family or group because of a screaming child. Nor does it prevent the manager from ejecting anyone that is being disruptive enough to ruin the evening for other patrons. They can scream as much as they want on a public street.

[Hugin]

72. So, children are "less human" in your eyes?

Just trying to get this straight.

[youspeakmylanguage]

74. Where did anyone state that? Children are just as human as...

...anyone else and should be held to the same standards in public as anyone else. Our point is if they're being disruptive, the parents should be held accountable by the manager of the business.

[Hugin]

78. I consider bigots to be disruptive to my dining experience...

Should I ask they be removed?

For that matter... Any subset of the population.

[Greyhound]

82. why not, if they're imposing their bigotry on you

by all means ask.

[youspeakmylanguage]

84. Are they doing something specific to disrupt your dining experience?

Like buring a cross in the corner? Or belting out a speech by Hitler?

[Hugin]

105. No, I can tell they're bigots.

It bugs me.

[youspeakmylanguage]

108. Your brilliant mind-reading powers are impressive...

...but they don't count for much in the real world.

[Hugin]

111. How "real world" is it to expect children to not be seen or heard?

Restaurants are "businesses" they decide who to serve and
who not to and it's generally determined by economics.

That is the real world.

[youspeakmylanguage]

113. There is a huge difference between...

...being "seen and heard" and being a disruptive screaming brat.

Exactly. Restaurants are businesses and they base decisions on economics. If more people walked out on bills based on screaming children that the restaurant refused to eject, then maybe the economics of it would change their greedy minds.

[Lavender Brown]

120. Most restaurant managers would consider it worse PR to "eject" kids

than to deal with people who don't want to pay their bill because of the kids.

[youspeakmylanguage]

134. They don't know how many people get pissed...

...because most people get up and leave or move to another table without saying anything. Very few people stand up and take a stand. I think more of us should.

[Hugin]

146. I don't recall ever being disturbed by children in a "Linen and Crystal"

restaurant.

I'm guessing the people who readjust to accommodate discomfort
also know how to use remote controls to change the channel or
when not to stand in the rain.

[youspeakmylanguage]

148. Do you know of a remote control that mutes screaming kids?!?!?

Please, send me the URL for the company ASAP! I'll even pay you a finder's fee!

[Hugin]

156. Pay up.

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search.php?form_keyword=noi...

Might look kind of silly... But, this whole topic is silly.

[youspeakmylanguage]

160. Sorry, I want to mute the kids...

...not deafen myself. But you were close!

[Lavender Brown]

151. In that case, the children aren't the only ones having a tantrum.

[youspeakmylanguage]

152. Sort of like the self-rightous mothers on this board... (n/t)

[Lavender Brown]

157. I'm not a mother

And if you don't think you sound self-righteous too... wow.

[Hugin]

162. Pssst...

BINGO! on that Lavender.

[Greyhound]

81. Sorry but I have no responsibility to raise other people's children

I decided as a child myself that I didn't want children, and have never once regretted it. I've been able to do all kinds of things that I never could have done if I'd entered into indentured servitude to support a child (BTW they are children, potential "fellow human beings"). I have no problem with screaming kids if I'm at Chucky Cheese or Micky D's, but when I and my Love, or my friends want to go out for a nice meal, you have no right to impose you chaos on my evening.
It's not like the children are enjoying it, that's why they're screaming, they would probably prefer to be at the above mentioned places.

[youspeakmylanguage]

88. What are you talking about, these are PARENTS!!!

And their children are SPECIAL!!! How DARE you question them?

[Debi]

93. Now you get it...

It's someone else's children, not mine.

[Tallison]

191. Damn straight.

THEIR children are just as special MINE or YOURS. It's the underlying value of a healthy, thriving community, the extent to which its adults - all adults - cherish all its young... (And I am childless by choice, BTW...)

[Hugin]

91. "they are children, potential "fellow human beings"

Are children *not* human beings?

Should they starve?

So, in your opinion children should be *seen* and not *heard*.

Classic stance of opression... They must be shaped to fit
in the wall.

[Greyhound]

98. Just as a cell is not a blastula, is not a zygote, is not a fetus,...

is not a baby, is not a child, is not an adult. They're 'works in progress'.
Perhaps it's the semantics that are disturbing you, strike human beings and insert homo sapiens, thinking man.

[Hugin]

103. Maybe a "works on progress" too.

Here I am all worked up about basic human rights...

When all I had to do was fix my semantics.

No, I don't think it's the semantics which are bothering
me. It's the message.

[Greyhound]

Then why don't we allow them to play with matches, or...

drive cars, or own firearms? If these are fully developed, 'thinking beings', we are seriously curtailing their constitutionally guaranteed rights as Americans.

[Hugin]

145. There are perfectly formed "Adults" who can't handle those items.

Should they be banned from restaurants as well?

Who's to determine "fully developed"?

Sounds like stereotyping to me.

[Divameow77]

172. Children are not the only ones who can disrupt

a perfectly good time at a restaurant. I have been annoyed by loud obnoxious abults more then once.

[Greyhound]

174. me too, and I've never hesitated to call them on it either. n/t

[Greyhound]

176. Well, I suppose if they were to...

set my table on fire, drive into the restaurant, or start shooting a gun, yes I would ban them as well. Of course, unlike children, any adult that did those things would have to suffer the consequences for those acts. We hold them to a different standard because they don't have the capacity yet to understand those consequences. You can't blame a kid for being a kid, but you can, and should, blame the parents for allowing their kids to do those things.

[Lavender Brown]

94. People aren't human until they are adults?

[Debi]

95. Like anyone here wants to teach you to be kind to others....

"Sorry but I have no responsibility to raise other people's children"



I certainly don't

[ScreamingMeemie]

189. Sorry, but that's stealing. Shame on you.

Nothing....less than poor service, or bad food...gives you the right to not pay your bill. Arrest-able offense in my opinion.

[Divameow77]

60. We rarely take our

2 year old out to eat anymore. I know this might not be teaching him how to behave in a restaurant but he can't sit through a meal without wanting to get up and I'm not paying all that money to have a rotten time. As far as shopping, I grocery shop while my husband stays home with the boys, then I let him carry in the groceries when I get home.

[hyphenate]

65. In my own experience

I find a muzzle works out very well.

j/k

[SarahB]

70. Not funny.

Not even close.

[SarahB]

75. My children are pretty well behaved.

I'm like a drill sargent when I have to be and they don't act this way (ever). However, we all have bad days sometimes, there's plenty of rude, pain-in-the-ass adults (if not more so), and I'd go with the philosophy of giving the mom a supportive look of encouragement during difficult times rather than judgment. It's so much easier to judge when you never had to do the actual work it takes. This board is sure consistently full of that.

[Maddy McCall]

77. I guess I'm lucky. My kid never did anything like that. Ever.

If he would have, I would have walked out of the store with him, and that would have been that.

Then, at home, had he asked for a cookie, I would have said, "We don't have any cookies. You threw a screaming fit in the grocery store, so I didn't have time to get cookies. If you behave in the grocery store tomorrow, I'll get cookies."

[mcar]

87. Ignoring is a tactic and sometimes works

but if the child is still screaming after that length of time, it obviously wasn't working in this case.

I've taken my children out of grocery stores if they're acting up and, if need be, left a full cart of groceries there (and felt guilty about that). Usually the threat of losing a consequence worked, but at age 2 or 3, kids can lose control quite easily. And it can be very difficult for them to regain it. My husband and I call it having a meltdown.

Unfortunately, a lot of times, we parents have to grocery shop with tired, out of sorts kids because we only have so much time available. It's not fair to the kid, to the other shoppers or even to us, but there it is.

I was at my 7YO son's swim meet a month ago and there was a toddler there just absolutely wailing. His parents were steadfastly ignoring him, obviously their chosen way of dealing with tantrums. But, the kid kept wailing for a good 30 minutes. By that time, everyone around (all of us parents) were getting annoyed. If ignoring doesn't work, you've got to come up with something else.

And, IMHO, spanking a child who's already screaming doesn't make any sense at all. Is adding pain to the equation supposed to stop them from yelling?

[grace0418]

114. Thank you!

That is what I consider to be reasonable parental behavior. I'll be asking you for advice when I have a kid.

Don't feel guilty about leaving the cart full of groceries there. I bet the management would much prefer that to having a screaming child in the store for an hour, driving away other customers and giving everyone a headache. I worked in a grocery, and I know what it's like to hear same child get louder and softer while the mom goes calmly up and down each aisle. It is NOT an enjoyable working environment.

[mcar]

194. Thanks for this

I just logged back on today after leaving that posting. I can only imagine what the noise level does to your nerves on a particularly bad day.

[Democracy White]

109. My nieces and nephew are horribly spoiled

or that they are yelled at too much. Two of them, my nephew and oldest niece have lead poisoning and it probably goes up and down every now and then but my sister is too lazy to get them checked. She is lazy to get my nephew checked for mental disabilites that we suspect he might have and stuff. She yells at him and tells him things like "I can't stand you." etc. etc. She makes empty threats therefore they don't listen to her.

Now when I am watching them and they want something and I can't buy if for lack of money I will tell them no, and they will have a fit. I usually grab them by the arm and tell them to be quiet.

Like for example, I had my nephew with me when I went to my mom's house last weekend. Well I was getting ready to leave and my nephew wanted me to get him some juice before he got dropped off. Well I said no, because I just wanted to drop him off and go home. He started having a fit saying that I was mean, and my mom was like "HOw come you just can't stop at the store and get him some juice?" I explained that I didn't want to stop anywheres. Well needless to say he decided to stay overnight there after all.

I just put my foot down and say no. I don't give in to the kids.


Dee

[Donkeyboy75]

170. Have the same problem with my nephew.

I offer them ginger snaps. That usually works.

[Lorien]

178. Here's a commercial you'll appreciate

posted by Karenina (OK-I know that some will find it offensive-but it just goes to show that American kids aren't exceptional in this regard)!

http://www.lonestarbrit.com/fun/BestCommercialEver.mpg

[Saphire]

121. when my small children acted up in public..I stood back and told

them to "hold on, lets wait for more people. O.K., now, everyone is looking, so start the tantrum. Is that all you have, gee, I woulda kicked more." Seems that when everyone was looking and anticipating a good tantrum, they suddenly didn't want to act out anymore. Maybe cruel, but it worked.

[xmas74]

130. I actually walked up to other parents in a store once

and asked them if they wanted to watch my kid have a tantrum. A few clerks (both grandmothers themselves) actually did watch. She got mad,yelled and kicked for about 10 seconds, got up, sat in the cart(she has always known how to get out of the belt on the cart) and quietly pouted the rest of the time at the store.
She was embarrassed over the situation but she stopped quickly. Everytime she makes a comment similar to that in the store I inform her that we can still wrangle up a group of people to watch her tantrum(she doesn't have them anymore but you can tell she thinks about it when she sees other kids having them and getting what they want).

[Saphire]

135. yeah, it's funny how an audiance can take all the fun out of it for them.

[xmas74]

144. It works wonders.

I also threw my own fit in a parking lot once. People stared at me but I didn't care. Turns out my kid did care and she was embarrassed that I would act like that in public.

[Hugin]

150. LOL! Great solution!

Unless, the kid lives for attention.

But, I'll keep it in mind. Always good to have a back-up plan.

[xmas74]

153. They usually don't like that much attention.

Throwing tantrums in the parking lot works wonders too. I've done it before and it embarrasses them-even at the age of 2.

[Hugin]

164. I wish my sweetheart would do that now and again.

She's too self-conscious tho... And that's why tantrums
work on her.

They don't work on me... I could care less what people
think.

[xmas74]

168. I don't care what they think either.

That's why I have no problems looking foolish if I think it will get her to stop.

[Merrick]

131. Refer her to this book:

[LynneSin]

187. I"ve watched that show - best form of birth control

But with some of those families I swear that in a month they're back to their old ways

[Not_Giving_Up]

158. When my son was small, he would throw a fit anywhere

Part of being an Aspie, but we didn't know that he was back then. I generally attempted ignore, and if that didn't work, we went to the car. When he calmed down, we'd resume shopping.

[SmokingJacket]

161. We would leave, pronto.

If my children misbehave in a public place, we leave. They've never screamed -- that's totally beyond the pale, imho -- but once or twice a very long time ago they became too silly and weren't listening, so we walked out. It was an ice cream parlor or something, a real tragedy. They know I mean business, and that I care VERY MUCH that they not bother other people with their behavior.

One of my kids has a tendency to throw tantrums -- not in public, he's too self-conscious -- but at home when he doesn't want to do something he needs to do. I stop that in its tracks with my new special weapon: A VIDEO CAMERA.

It's a beautiful thing: I go to the cabinet and pull out my little movie camera, and tell BabyJacket: "Let's get this on film!"

Instantly the tears are wiped away, the howling stops.

It wouldn't work for every kid, but it's like a magic wand with mine.

[tallahasseedem]

173. I have a four and a two year old....

and this has only happened once. I left my cart there and promptly removed my child from the situation, calmed her down and took her back. I am clearly aware that others around me (including myself with other people's kids) dont want to listen to them scream. Hell, I dont want to listen to it.

[MediumBrownDog]

175. Could there have been extenuating circumstances of which you weren't aware

I'm a little sensitive to this because yesterday I was the mother with the screaming child in the grocery store, and there was absolutely, positively, NOTHING I could do about it. My 1 year old son had a 102 fever and we had just come from the pediatrician. Ear infection. The little guy was feeling like crap, in pain, and in no mood for the grocery store. However, since we get our prescriptions filled at the pharmacy inside the store, we had to stop there. I went in, dropped off the prescription, and was told it would be 10 or 15 minutes. So, the crying (progressing to screaming) baby and I wandered around the store as I tried to distract him. I got plenty of "looks" and, in one case, rolled eyes. I was almost in tears myself.

Take him outside? Nope. We live in Virginia and it was 96 degrees, with a heat index of 105, and I was listening for the pharmacist to call me on the PA system.

Usually, in this situation, I'd leave him with my mother and go get the prescription filled, but she's out of the country. My other friends were working or had small children who didn't need to be exposed to this. My husband is out of town. So, what exactly should I have done? The last thing on my mind was the comfort and serenity of the other patrons in the store as they perused the leeks. I do generally get out as quickly as possible if he has a meltdown, but yesterday, I was stuck.

(On a positive note, I was saved by a grandfatherly butcher who made faces at the baby from behind the glass and then came out and made animals out of cling wrap. "I've got 12 grandchildren, I can spot a sick baby a mile away" he said.)

[Lorien]

179. Sick kids are always an exception

I saw a mom in the same situation at my local CVS. She had a cart full of items, and to top it all off the cart spilled when she picked the child up out of it while she was standing in line. She looked like she was about to cry, so I rushed over and picked up the mess, then stood in line with her and unloaded her cart when we got to the cashier. She kept apologizing and thanking me,but there was nothing to apologize for; the kid was burning up and he needed those meds and supplies! I think that a situation like that is quite differnt than one like this: http://www.lonestarbrit.com/fun/BestCommercialEver.mpg

[southlandshari]

181. Thank you for sharing that

dose of reality in the flow of the conversation here!

I'm guessing every single one of us who has posted in this thread cried/whined/pitched a fit or otherwise embarrassed our parents or other caregivers in public at least ONCE in our infancy and/or early childhood. It happens, and it makes us parents ten times more uncomfortable than it makes detached observers who may be exposed to the event for one or two minutes, or even longer.

We don't enjoy it. We are not trying to ruin anyone else's shopping experience. These things just aren't black and white - every situation has context, shades of grey. A little patience and understanding goes a long way!

[Tallison]

190. Thanks for the reminder!

It's because of cases like yours I'd rather err on the side of giving families the benefit of the doubt... (I'm childless myself, but probably pitched plenty of fits in my day, bless my mom's and the rest of the community's soul. My tolerance is my payback... )

[Dastard Stepchild]

177. Nanny Deb says to get down to their level...

and get them to use simple words to explain the screaming. And if they don't know the words, supply them to the child. As in, "Are you mad because you are tired?"

I can't vouch for whether or not this will work... I've never been around children.

This is Nanny Deb. She wears the smart green shirt. http://www.fox.com/nanny911 /

[electron_blue]

182. Have compassion

The mom probably hasn't prodded the tantrum just to tick you off. I've been in similar situations and usually I was mortified inside, but still had to continue my shopping (or whatever it was) for a really important reason you probably couldn't see. Chances are - she had no other choice., it may have looked like she had no care, but how do you know that? Chill.

[NMMNG]

183. I don't have kids but I once saw an excellent bit of parenting advice

for just such an occasion. I think it is an excellent idea that I wish more parents would use.

Mom/dad is shopping and tyke starts screaming like a banshee. Now parent does not want to just up and leave because A) the shopping will not get done and B) tyke will get the notion that if s/he does not like to be dragged out shopping all s/he need do is throw a tantrum and they will leave. Therefore what parent will do is take tyke outside the store until tantrum is over. Then parent will tell tyke that they are going back into the store to finish shopping. Tyke will be told that shopping will be done whether s/he likes it or not, and if parent has to go into the parking lot ad nauseum to end tantrums, parent will. Nonetheless, shopping will get done. If tyke repeats tantrum(s), punishments will result (loss of favored activities, loss of allowance, etc.).

According to the psychologist who recommended this tactic, it rarely had to be implemented more than a few times before the child got the picture and stopped acting like a fool when in a store.

[grace0418]

195. That is absolutely fantastic! Great advice.

I will remember than when I have kids. The best solution for the situation because it teaches the lesson without requiring everyone else to endure the screaming.

[KitchenWitch]

184. With both of my kids - if they started it in a very public place

like a restaurant or grocery store, we dropped everything and left. Went to the car and did the errand or eating out some other time. No need to subject others to my screaming kids.

Luckily (or maybe as a result of the above), they only carry on at home

[RedCloud]

192. Surefire cure to stop screaming kids.

I notice it has either stopped my kids or stopped other kids from doing it.

Get a child of about the same age, better if of the opposite sex, get the child near the screamer and like a miracle it causes them to stop hollering. All of which tells me it is so fake. Sad if you give in to the screamer, it will only get worse.

So that's my cheap cure for the ones that are really faking it!

[bushisanidiot]

193. When you're with the kids day in and day out with no breaks, it's

easy to sort of "block out" the whining/screaming etc. and there is a big difference between a tantrum scream and an "in pain" scream.. mom's know the difference.

it sounds like the noises that children make aren't something you're used to hearing, so it really stood out to you. but, to the mom, it was part of the normal routine for the day, so she was desensatized to it.

just a guess.

my kids are teenagers now and when i see kids in the grocery store acting up.. and the parents are struggling with them.. it makes me wonder how i made it through those years. i guess i was lucky that i didn't have to take the kids to the store with me. my spouse or i would go and leave the kids home with the other one. unfortunately, many single parents today have no choice but to take the kids with them. it must be hard.. i think it would have driven me nutso.