Sen. Clinton Demands Answers on "Hot Coffee" Mod.

[Kraklen]

Washington- Rockstar North, the Vancouver-based company that produces controversial video games such as Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, is once again in hot water with Washington watchdogs. The game follows the exploits of Carl "C.J." Johnson, a young African American gangster in South Central L.A. during the early nineties. The game has one numerous major awards for its highly innovative game-play. At the user's discretion, the character can perform numerous actions such as swimming with dolphins, shooting pool in a bar at 2 AM, take flying lessons, listen to class country music, or play video games within video games. One such feature is a "dating simulation", made popular by the "Sims" brand video games. The feature allows the player to have C.J. take girlfriends on dates such as dinner and dancing. After several successful dates, C.J. is invited in for "coffee," a popular euphemism for sex, which is heard but never seen.

A recent modification, "Hot Coffee", allows the player to view C.J. and his date having sex. This has recently been made available online by third parties. And it has sparked quite a controversy in the nation's capital.

"There are thousands of parents out there who have purchased this game for their children," said Senator Clinton (D-NY) before a joint session of congress,"and they had absolutely no idea that such content was on this game. Why weren't parents notified earlier? Is this also possible on the PSP (Sony's new portable machine)?"

"America needs more hot, hot black-on-blond gangsta love!," stated the senator.

Short on the heels of the 3-minute standing ovation that followed the senator's comments, Sen. Trent Lott (R-Ms) introduced legislation that would appropriate $120 billion from the Department of Homeland Security to go towards the development of new American video games.

"Boy, I tell ya hwhat," quipped Sen. Lott,"most of America's video games come from the Canadians and the Orientals. This country needs to stop its dependence upon foreign booty calls."

"I've been told by top Ole Miss scientists," he added,"that their working on a machine that can compete with these next generation doodads." The senator is referring to the new Sony Playstation 3, the Microsoft X-box 360, and the Nintendo Revolution, all three scheduled to be released in the coming year.

"This here General Lee (the tentative name of the machine) can render up to 60 billion distinct shades of sweaty nubian passion. The new dynamic fluid splatter effects are drop dead gorgeous," said Lott. Experts hope the new console will be ready for a 4Q 2006 launch, with at least one launch title "Poozle n' Tang."

"We're aiming for a Christmas release," added the senator.

[neuvocat]

1. She really needs to just let this go.

Unless that is she wants to just sabotage her chances of getting re-elected. We've got a growing scandal and if I'm not mistaken, China's threatened to use nukes on the U.S.

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. I disagree

While I agree there are more serious problems facing our country, I admire Hillary's stance on violence in video games and other media. I have worked with kids for 25 years and yes, they are growing more and more violent and yes, it could be due to the violence they are exposed to in video games. It desensitizes them.

This really is a growing problem. If you don't believe me, come watch my kids at recess one day.

[neuvocat]

20. I've grown up on gaming.

I've also worked for a company that supported one and I know what you're referring to. However the problem is due to a lack of parenting more than anything and legislating responsibility in this case (IMO) will not work.

I respect where you're coming from though and we may just have to agree to disagree.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. You hit the nail on the head

It IS definitely bad parenting. But I am one of the professionals who gets to deal with the results of the bad parenting. Every now and then, we let the rest of you all know how bad it is getting.

And please understand that I don't want to take your games away from you. I just want them kept away from 9 year olds.

[Elidor]

42. That's all well and good, and I share your concern

But this is about sex, not violence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

Sex in a violent game.

[matcom]

2. "There are thousands of parents out there who have purchased this game for

their children."

:rofl:

then they are fucking MORANS Hill and guess what? so are you for playing 'JoeMentum' here.

get a grip and do something USEFUL like trying to stop an illegal war.

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Well there are a lot of fucking morans raising kids, Matcom

EVERY kid in my class has played this video game. My students are 9 and 10 years old.

[matcom]

9. that is up to their parents

if they want to be MORANS then let them be. if they let their kids DOWNLOAD the MOD then let the idiots be even more

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. But EVERYONE pays the price of bad parenting

It touches all of us eventually. High crime rates, ignorance, hostility, selfishness. I could go on. But I think you get the idea.

We have an administration in this country that is fighting a winning battle against gay marriage with the talking point of 'protecting marriage' while they do nothing to address the growing divorce rate, which IS damaging to marriage - and to kids. And they ignore social issues that affect kids, like violence in the media, while they freak out over Janet Jackson's boob.

Unfortunately, far too many parents use TV as a babysitter. And no one seems to care.

[AlGore-08.com]

30. I'm not sure - - do you mean we should make it harder to get divorced?

How can we be sure that the people who get divorced are the ones who need to be divorced (to get away from abusive spouses, for example)? Who gets to decide which marriages can end in divorce - - where is the line between an unworkable marriage and a marriage that needs a hell of a lot of work? What do we do if one or more members of the marriage don't want to put that work into saving their marriage?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. I don't know what the answer is

I do know that marriage is hard work and once we became parents, my hubby and I worked hard to protect our marriage because of our kids. Trust me, after 30 years, I could have divorced him at least 5 times, but wanting my kids to grow up in a 2 parent home kept me from filing those papers. And after 30 years, I am glad I held on to him. I do think it's just too easy for some parents to give up on their marriage and walk away from it, not realizing how hard it could be on their kids.

And then there is the issue of girls having babies and not bothering to get married or to include the father in bringing up the child. Hillary said it takes a village but it also takes a family and too many kids don't even have that.

[AlGore-08.com]

48. But just how will investigating the "hot coffee" mod solve any of that?

All of the issues you're talking about are interpersonal issues, that are very hard to legislate, unless you want to live in a society with far less personal freedom. Then your choices are basically a society like the Taliban, that has strict rules about who can have sex, who they can have it with, when they can have it, and what the punishment is for violating those rules.

Your posts seem to imply that the only positive family structure is one where the two birth parents marry and raise the child. But what about families where one parent is violently abusive, or alcoholic, or is a child molester? Is it really in a child's best interest to have that kind of parent, just so their family conforms to the ideal family model? And why do you phrase it "girls having babies and not bothering to get married or include the father in bringing up the child"? Are there no instances of men making the decision not to marry, and/or have any role in the life of their children?

What needs to be done to protect these children is not to legislate how their families should be structured. It is to provide them with a social safety net that supports and supplements any parent raising any child. This is a social safety net that we've never had, one that adequately funds schools and trains teachers, provides food and health care for all children, provides them with a clean environment and an economy that can employ most of the adults - - as well as providing a way for unemployed people to live in dignity.

Absolutely none of that is accomplished by investigating the video games rating system.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. We agree - I guess more than you realize

And I am sorry - I did not mean to imply that "the only positive family structure is one where the two birth parents marry and raise the child." Not at all. I just think that is ideal for MOST kids. I have seen many single parents do a fabulous job raising their kids. But I also see many who struggle with little support from their family or community.

I also don't know the particulars of every single parent family so I can't say that the father was not the one who didn't want to make a family when the mother got pregnant. The norm is usually a mom raising the kids, with no dad in the picture, or making infrequent appearances. At least that is the pattern I have seen as a teacher. Most of the kids I know being raised by their mother don't even know their dad.

The way this connects to video games is it is difficult for ONE adult to parent alone and keep from using TV as a babysitter. Not all do this, but far too many do.

I am also not trying to promote banning video games. I am just telling you all that you would be amazed by the number of kids who really do play these very violent games.

[AlGore-08.com]

54. I would not be amazed by the number of kids playing it at all

I just think that this was either a pretty stupid move by Clinton or a pretty cynical one. There's no solution to this "problem" other than the solution that's in place - - the ratings system. The game in question is already rated "M - Mature for 17 and over". It's already against the law to sell games rated "M" to kids under 17. And there is no way to legislate forcing parents to keep "M" rated games away from kids that is acceptable to American society at large. Ratings systems are as far as society will agree to go.

And the content Clinton's objecting to is not even part of stupid game.

If Clinton sincerely feels the ratings system needs to be revisited she picked a stupid example to use, for the reasons I've said.

If Clinton sincerely feels that the gaming industry markets too many sexually explicit games, she picked a stupid example to use, for the reasons I've said.

Which means that she picked this example because

1.) Clinton is so incompetent she can't figure this out herself, or 2.) Clinton is so incompetent she can't hire staff who can figure this out themselves, or
3.) Clinton is so deeply cynical that she knows all this, but is pretending to be concerned just to get some quick, "safe" national PR that will play really well with values voters in red and blue states, which she really needs because the latest Zogby poll has McCain trouncing her 54% to 35%.

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. I think part of the answer

is parent education. And the schools can do a lot more in that area than they do now.

As far as Hillary is concerned, I greatly admire her but I am not in favor of her running for president. The right hates her too much.

[TimeChaser]

11. Then it's their parent's fault

The game is rated M, for 18+

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. And what do we do to stop parents who let their kids play the game?

It isn't just a few.

[TimeChaser]

36. We don't

It's up to parents to decide how to raise their children. If a parent's going to let their kid play an M rated game, they're going to. It's the same thing as parents who take their young children to R rated movies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Well as a teacher I see the results of these bad parenting decisions

every day. And it scares me.

A former student with a bad parent was recently arrested for murder. He was 17. And in 25 years, he is not an isolated story.

[AlGore-08.com]

21. The game is rated "M" for mature - - only 17 and older can buy it

The whole "hot coffee" mod aside, buying an "M" rated game for your kids is like taking your kids to an "R" rated movie. If the mod were in a game that was rated "E" for everybody or even "T" for "Teens" this whole media flap would seem a lot less like political grandstanding.

Additionally, the unmodified game has the main character giving gifts to his dates - - two possible gifts are a dildo and a vibrator. Add that to the fact that you can "hear" the characters having "coffee"... why weren't these parents outraged last year, when they bought a game that included those sexual elements?

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. People don't respect the game ratings like they do the movie ratings

At the movie theater, there is a ticket seller who can refuse to sell tickets to kids. But if a parent goes to WalMart and buys this game, no one is in their house to tell them not to let their kid play it.

Not that I am advocating a big brother climate, but just telling you that every kid I know plays this M rated game.

[AlGore-08.com]

32. So if the problem is the parents don't respect the current rating system

What on earth will make them respect a different, tougher rating system? If they can't go to Walmart and read the "M - Mature for 17 and older" sticker on a game box and say "Gee, my child is six, I'm sure this game is fine for them"... what's going to get these same parents to figure out that 17 is greater than 6?

A ratings system is a ratings system is a ratings system...

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I don't know, I don't want to infringe on personal rights here

but like I said earlier, this game is incredibly popular with kids. Parents who would never allow their kids to watch a porn flick think nothing of letting them play a very violent video game.

[AlGore-08.com]

40. The ratings system is the answer

Again, if the question is whether the current ratings system is effective, this was a bad example to use to try and get a public debate going about whether to change the ratings. A better example would have been a game rated "T" for "Teen" (the equivalent of "PG") or "E" for "Everybody" (the equivalent of "G") which had objectionable material in the game itself - - not added to it by a third party hack.

Do you understand that the sex scenes cannot be accessed in normal game play? That the user has to download a program created by a third party - - a hacker in Holland - - and change the game in order to play "hot coffee"?

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Yes I understand that

And the first thing that came to my mind is the number of times kids at school are surfing the net and ask me "How do you spell game cheat codes?"

By the time school starts in a month, I will be willing to bet that most of my students will already have downloaded this little addition to their version of GTA.

[AlGore-08.com]

50. If a kid can't spell "game cheat code" he probably can't install the mod

So if a kid asks you how to modify GTA to install the hot coffee mod, just say no. ;)

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. LOL

Most of them have a big brother or a cousin who can do it. And Mom, in the next room, is oblivious.

[ghostsofgiants]

3. Have you ever seen screenshots of "Hot Coffee"?

Dude doesn't even get nekkid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. It's the implication of what happens

once she invites him in for coffee. Even 8 year olds can figure that out. And please explain to me what sex on a date has to do with a video game ??

[bicentennial_baby]

8. what 8 year old is playing that game?

if there are any, it's on the parents, not the game mod.

[ghostsofgiants]

14. Exactly

It's up to the parents to keep objectionable material away from their kids, and since the game is rated M it should be pretty obvious that maybe, just maybe kids shouldn't be playing it. And if someone personally, as an adult, finds it offensive, there's a simple solution to that as well.

[AlGore-08.com]

24. If the issue is whether the ratings system is too lax and this is a bad

example to use to explore that issue IMNSHO, because it's an M rated game which shouldn't be played by children anyway, and because the objectionable material is accessed through a third party hack.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. So do we arrest the parents?

Lots of 8 year old kids play this game.

[AlGore-08.com]

39. We should make the parents take math tests before purchasing

To be sure they know the difference between "17" and "8" (or whatever age their kids are).

Then the parents should be forced to play the game for eight to ten hours.

Then they should be made to sit through a really boring semester long class on how to program illegal game modifications.

Then they should be made to sign a waiver saying

"I (insert name) understand that the video game I am purchasing is rated 'M - Mature for ages 17 and up' due to extreme violence and sexual situations. I understand that my own children are (insert ages here). I certify that (check one):

__ I will allow my child to play this game, even though it is rated 'M - Mature for 17 and older'

__ I will not allow my child to play this game and it is my responsibility to keep my child away from it.

Additionally, I understand that third parties may develop illegal game modifications that can add material I find objectionable to the game, if I or anyone in my house illegally alters the game's programming to utilize these illegal game modifications. I certify that (check one):

__ I will allow my child to play this game with illegal modifications, regardless of the content of those modifications, and regardless of the fact that the modifications are illegal and could damage the game and/or my computer.

__ I will not allow my child to play this game with illegal modifications and it is my responsibility to keep my child from obtaining such illegal game modifications and illegally adding them to the game.

Signed (insert name here)"

They forms should be witnessed by three people and notarized.

Then there should be a ten day waiting period where the state runs a background check on the parents before the game is actually handed over.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. LOL It is easier than that

to buy a gun.

[AlGore-08.com]

49. That's my point. If this game is that dangerous, make it harder to buy

If it's not that dangerous, this is all political grandstanding.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. I have never thought Hillary is grandstanding

OTOH, Tipper Gore, in her campaign to rid the world of bad music lyrics - that was grandstanding.

[ghostsofgiants]

15. I wasn't saying that it's not offensive because he's wearing clothes

I'm saying it's amusing to me that he's wearing clothes. I was being somewhat facetious.

And if 8 year olds are playing that game, maybe his/her parents need to reevaluate their parenting strategies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. And if those parents are too stupid or don't care?

What do we do then?

[WildClarySage]

7. Linky-dink?

this has to be satire.

[ghostsofgiants]

16. Yes, this is satire

However some poeople around here lack what is called a "sense of humour" and as such, will inevitably freak out and start a flamewar over it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Yes it is

but Hillary has taken a public stance against violence in video games marketed to kids.

[Madrone]

10. You guys are too EASY.

"America needs more hot, hot black-on-blond gangsta love!," stated the senator.


Sen. Trent Lott (R-Ms) introduced legislation that would appropriate $120 billion from the Department of Homeland Security to go towards the development of new American video games.


"Boy, I tell ya hwhat," quipped Sen. Lott,"most of America's video games come from the Canadians and the Orientals. This country needs to stop its dependence upon foreign booty calls."


"This here General Lee (the tentative name of the machine) can render up to 60 billion distinct shades of sweaty nubian passion.


:think:


:dunce:



:rofl:

[Kraklen]

18. !

:popcorn:

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. Hmmm...methinks some have not read fully the whole thing

Hilarious!

It should come with a vibrating tang.

[Madrone]

13. Vibrating tang???!!!!!

:spray:

[Mojambo]

17. "America needs more hot, hot black-on-blond gangsta love!,"

I would give anything, ANYTHING to have her actually say that.

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. Are you saying she didn't say that? Come on, she's a liberal,

I'm sure she says that every morning before she pees on an American flag and wraps a veteran in it before setting him on fire.

[AlGore-08.com]

22. Nah, I think they just misattributed a quote of Bill Clinton's...

:ducks:

[Rabrrrrrr]

55. LOL!

[immoderate]

35. These are cartoon characters that have sex.

Which is not violence. (At least the way I do it.)

I don't see the harm in letting cartoon characters have sex. Children have seen sex and representations of sex forever. And for most it does no harm.

And in the case of children with problems, most of those are not caused by knowing about or seeing sex. This is stupid and has always been. It's a power play by adults. They should be more into reality.

--IMM

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. Have you played this game?

It is pretty violent. The new version with the sex added is just icing on a bad cake.

[immoderate]

41. I've seen the game. It's not my thing.

But the current complaint is not about the violence. Sex is not violence. (At least the way I do it.) Sex is OK.

--IMM

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. No but the game really is violent

adding the sex just helps sell more of these games.

[immoderate]

53. As I said I've seen the game.

And it's as violent as fiddling with a game controller can get. I don't think this harms normally developed children.

One of the problems is that we often raise children in a confusing mix of reality, fantasy, mythology that makes it difficult for some to apply rationality. Then we tell them that sex is dirty and disgusting when it's really great! It's a wonder that some of them actually grow up sane.

--IMM

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. good point

:)

[Elidor]

44. I, too, demand answers!

Why can't I get the Hot Coffee mod to work?!?

:argh:

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Ask a 9 year old

for help. :)

[sleipnir]

51. If the kids aren't' going to get SexEd in school, let's let Rockstar do it

Why not?

I found the clip to be highly educational. Just look at the way he's working it. And you have to move to the rhythm. That's not something you'll learn in class! Hot damn, if I were a parent, I'd MAKE my kid play this thing.

And I learned that the next time the girl at the deli asks me if I want my coffee hot or iced, I know what she's talking about. And I do like it hot!