a rant about hospitals and infections...

[fleabert]

I now know 6 people, including myself that have gotten infections after being in the hospital. Three of them have died, including Andy (even though I didn't technically 'know' him.

anecdotal, I know.

but wtf? you couldn't get me into a hospital these days unless I was already dying.

[tjdee]

1. Is it the hospitals though?

Isn't that more like, weird things were put into your body, the body suffered a trauma basically, and the infection is due to being exposed to foreign elements/messing around inside?

I don't know if you could avoid that--if you needed surgery, you're going to have to deal with that infection risk?

A friend's father had surgery in the hospital a few weeks ago and got an infection as well. :shrug:

[ForrestGump]

2. Very often the hospital

Look up stats on fatalities following hip replacements, for example -- infection and death rates are very high, consistently, at some institutions and just as consistently low at others. No excuse. You can be sure that money is more often than not the root of this evil, too.

[tjdee]

10. Wow.

Didn't know that... that *is* bad.

[ForrestGump]

22. Here's one example...

http://www.mmhuf.org.uk/mortality_rate.html

"PATIENTS treated in the worst-rated National Health Service hospitals are twice as likely to die during their stay as those admitted to the best hospitals...Against a background of overall improving mortality rates, some hospitals are bucking the trend with big rises in the number of patient deaths recorded in their wards over the past year...at Walsall Hospitals NHS Trust, which recorded the highest death rate over three years (126), patients are twice as likely to die as those treated at Barts and the London NHS Trust hospitals, which have the lowest death rates (61)."

[SarahB]

42. Part of it is staffing ratio.

Unless there is enough staff to allow for the time to utilize proper contact precautions in terms of highly communicable organisms, they will be easily spread. Gowning and masking up from room to room when such organisms are present takes more time and more money as well, so you are very right.

Fortunately, I work at a place where we have the necessary tools to use proper precautions, but it's also a sub-specialty more heavily scrutinized and publicized if a problem does occur. There's an even heavier price to be paid to not be vigilant. It's too bad all of medicine can't be like that, but people seem to pay less attention when it's a more geriatric population, so they can get away with stuff.

"Best health care in the world" my butt! :grr: Ok, end rant!

[GOPisEvil]

55. I believe the writer Dick Schaap's family just settled with a hospital.

He went in for a hip replacement and never came out. $1.5 million, I think.

[fleabert]

3. staph...all of them except Andy's (I am not privvy to what his was)

staph is rampant at hospitals. One of my friends (19 yrs old) got it so bad it cascaded thru her body and attacked her brain, she didn't make it after being in intensive care for nearly a year.

and all of the people I know were not in the hospital for an infection, the were there for another reason all together, one of them to have a baby. I full-on blame the hospitals.

(no offense to those that try to clean the hospitals, I am sure our overuse of antibiotics didn't help the problem over the years)

[Maddy McCall]

5. Yes. Lots of cases of that here, too.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Once staph gets in an operating room, it's impossible to get rid of it

(nearly) If there is a history of staph with a particular facility, I'd never consent to surgery there

[Maddy McCall]

12. You're awake.

I ALMOST called you, but didn't want to disturb you. :hug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. Yeah I woke up

and came back and checked...

[fleabert]

19. how does one find that out?

and the family member that got staph in her breast never saw an operating room! she was in an L&D room and that was it. luckily, baby didn't get it too.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. It's difficult to find it out since hospitals cover their ass with both

hands

[fleabert]

27. and all their money too. nt

[China_cat]

31. And don't bother to wash them afterward.

[tjdee]

14. Didn't know that.

I'm glad I didn't know that when my daughter was in the hospital last year! :scared:

I had no idea this was so commonplace.

[Maddy McCall]

4. My aunt became very ill from staph infection in a hospital.

Very ill from staph infection that even her surgeon attributed to the hospital.

[tjdee]

13. Come to think of it, that's the kind of infection my friend's father had.

I didn't realize it was so rampant.

[Individualist]

49. One of my neighbors died

following staph infection he got while having heart surgery. :-(

[BikeWriter]

6. My oldest Son's first child died from a Staph infection...

Guess where she got it? In a hospital's neo-natal intensive care unit.

[Maddy McCall]

9. Very sorry, BW.

Horrible. :(

[BikeWriter]

18. Thank you. Ma'am, the next time he came to see me after the funeral...

I sat him in my lap and hugged him for a while. We both needed it. Beautiful tiny girl babies are not supposed to die over someone's carelessness.

[fleabert]

20. I am so sorry.

it must have been hard to both lose a grandbaby, and try to comfort your son and dil. :-( :hug:

[BikeWriter]

28. Thank you. It's been the toughest thing I've lived through...

They were so very proud of her and named her after my middle name.

[fleabert]

the tiniest angels are the ones that can fly the highest you know.

she is soaring! And your name is on the tongues of angels that meet her. :hug:

I swear my own angel (my grandma) said that thru me tonight, not really my style, but it is so her... perhaps they are together at this very moment?

[BikeWriter]

36. Thank you, Dear.

[girl gone mad]

30. How terribly sad for your family.

I told my husband that if we ever have another baby, I'm going to use a midwife and deliver at home. I had an easy delivery at the hospital and the nurses were great, but the whole process felt ridiculously unnatural.

I had a friend whose baby got very sick with a bacterial infection at a hospital. I think these things will only get worse over time, because germs are becoming more resistant to the chemicals we use to destroy them.

[BikeWriter]

40. Thank you. Yes, that's exactly what's happening...

That and poor training. While they were visiting the poor baby my Son saw a nurse drop an IV package on the floor and proceed to put it back into the sterile box with fresh ones. He stopped her, but it illustrated how the baby got staph in the first place. The hospital was requiring visitors to wear masks and scrub their arms, but their shoes walked in with who knows what on them.

[Left Is Write]

45. I'm sorry.

My son spent the first seven days of his life in the NICU with a mysterious infection that was never identified (I had tested negative for Group B strep, and all I know for sure is that that was NOT what he had).

It was very scary.

I'm sorry for your family's loss.

[bleedingheart]

46. so sorry...my daughter was in the NICU for 10 days

and because of the fact that I am a carrier for Group B Strep she was given a regimen of antibiotics because she had been delivered via C-Section which could have been a problem for her...

you are right...hand washing is beaten into your head in the NICU but yet you could wear your street clothes in the unit....not sure why...

[zanne]

47. Whas it MRSA?

I learned about this antibiotic-resistant staph infection when my mother was in the hospital two years ago. It almost killed her. The nurses weren't shy about telling me it came from the hospital. For a week, anybody who went into her room had to wear a facemask, hospital gown, gloves and booties. There is only one atibiotic that can beat it, and it has to be administered intravenously. Very scary stuff. My mother's case was not surgery related; she went into the hospital with a simply urinary tract infection, but she got alot sicker once she was there.

[Ladyhawk]

61. On a happy note, I'm glad my surgery is over and that I didn't read this

thread or one like it prior to my surgery. :scared:

Still, I'm feeling pretty sickened about what happened to Andy. God, did anyone else not sleep or not sleep well last night? :cry:

[fleabert]

64. yep. sorry about the gloom and doom...I was in a really bad mood last nite

I am sure there are plenty of great hospitals that don't have problems with staph, but damn, it sucks that it happens at all.

[bridgit]

7. oh lord, i do these q&a gigs @ hospitals...

the question modules alone will give you a clue as to just how near your concerns are to your thoughts themselves wink-wink not even trying to be abstract here just that i understand what you're saying, fleabert

[fleabert]

21. pm me which ones to avoid... nt

[bridgit]

26. will do...n/t

[Lone_Star_Dem]

11. I had a serious infection after a surgery

It came on the day I was supposed to go home, 4 days after the surgery. Luckily I was still in the hospital because when the fever hit I became delirious and then had seizures. All within 30 minutes time, I never had a lucid thought that something was wrong. If I had been home already I would have been alone and unable to seek help.

[fleabert]

23. I was pretty close to totally losing it as well.

I had the infection while still in hospital, but it was masked by the antibiotics they had me on to stave off infection! When I got home, I had two days left of the antibiotics, and on day three my temp spiked to 102, I was back in the hospital and sucked down like a hundred bags of IV fluid in about 30 mins ( I hadn't kept anything down for the three days). so, the hospital made me sicker than I should have been, but they also saved my life; both with my surgery and treating the infection. Catch 22. I just wish I had chosen a different hospital.

the first room I was admitted into after surgery had dried blood on the floor under my bed, if I could have run out, I would have.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

29. Dear God!

Dried blood on the floor! That's a bio hazard, isn't it?

In my case they rushed me in and did an emergency surgery, supposedly exploratory. I wasn't aware of what was going on so I'm not sure. I still to this day think they had left something inside of me which caused the infection. I'll never know for sure.

Whatever the cause I ended up in ICU for the next 24 hours and then had to stay another four days in the hospital. It was a VERY expensive bill which took me years to pay off, luckily I was alive to do so, however.

[Piperay]

16. My father

went into the hospital for severe anemia in March, was in for two weeks and came out with a urinary tract infection. The UTI has been very difficult to get over and he is still suffering the after-effects, I am irritated about the whole thing. :mad:

[fleabert]

25. that sucks.

UTI's suck really bad.

has he made cranberry juice a staple yet? if not, buy him a gallon and tell him to suck it down. (if there are no other reasons he shouldn't be drinking it, of course...I am not a dr.) If I have the faintest whisper of a thought that I am getting a UTI, I inhale cranberry juice, and it goes away.

[Piperay]

63. THANKS

I knew about Cranberry but had forgotten, will give it a try.:thumbsup:

[ReadTomPaine]

17. How does one find out the rates of these infections in a hospital?

It would be nice if one could find out before they are fighting off an infection which hospitals in an area have problems with Staph and which ones don't.

[Patiod]

48. If you live in IL, FL, PA or MO, you'll soon be able to see that

Good article on MRSA here:
http://wcco.com/health/health_story_159112957.html

Frustrating that you can find out how your local deli did on it's latest health inspection, but in 46 states, you can't find out your local hospital's MRSA rate.

[shugh514]

32. Thanks for ranting

I had never heard of this. Being of good health and rarely sick, I don't frequent hospitals. A google search of my local hospital and staph together brought up alot of results I need to read up on.

[murielm99]

33. I got an infection after having a hysterectomy.

It was on the day I was supposed to go home, too. I had to stay in the hospital a few extra days.

My insurance allotted X number of days for me to recover from surgery, and they would not pay any more. My doctor, and someone from the hospital called them, but I still ended up with a big bill. That was unpleasant, on top of the surgery, the infection, and the money I lost from not being able to work for six weeks. I am sure I would have recovered faster, if not for the infection.

[Sgent]

34. MRSA Is a major problem -- and very deadly

But don't accept hospital infection rates as the end all be all. For instance, most academic hospitals have a terrible infection rate -- because they have the sickest patients.

Probably the best indication for any general hospital is the number of procedures performed. For instance, if you need a hip replacement, I'd rather go to a hospital that does 1,000 a year than one that does 20. Although in my area, the one that does 20 has a better infection rate.

That being said, the 20 it does are on much healthier patients in general, who are less likely to get infected. They ship all the more difficult ones to the larger hospital that does 1000.

[In_The_Wind]

35. I'm glad you made it through fleabert

> ~ to Andy

[Shell Beau]

37. Staph is all too common in the hospital. I hope

they are taking measures to keep it under control!

[Avalux]

38. Unfortunately, hospitals will make you sick.

Those who are in the hospital and already have a compromised immune system from another illness (like Andy) are very susceptible to post-op infections. The scary thing is that these infections are becoming more prevalent, and the antibiotics we've used for years are becoming less effective - the bacteria becomes resisitant.

[MountainLaurel]

59. A former coworker's physician father

Absolutely refused to have any of those anti-bacterial soaps, wipes, et al., in his house and gave her hell about using them as well -- he was that concerned about the cumulative impact on the bacteria's resistance.

[48pan]

39. The best proof that Darwin was right! nt

[brainshrub]

50. Please elaborate.

Do you mean that bacteria get stronger with time as they adapt to antibiotics?

[48pan]

56. Meaning it takes almost no time...

for bacteria to mutate and adapt to their environment, just like every kind of plant and animal.

I sure hope nobody took it any other way. That would be horrible. Sorry for making anybody think that.

[Texasgal]

41. The main problem with staph

and other bacterials are not so much the fault of the hospital, doctors over decades have over prescibed antibiotics, making strains harder to kill.

Hospitals are in a vulnerable state right now, It's not the hospitals "taking your money" it's the insurance companies sucking them dry.

I should know, I am an RN who worked 4 years in ER and in ER trauma. I worked in the county hospital, the people who came generally had no insurance, no way to pay for medical help. If the hospitals had more funding and if the feds would give researchers more funding we wouldn't have such a problem.

The truth of the matter is, hospitals are not very sterile places. They do the best they can, but without financial support it will remain the same. More people will die due to hospital borne infections if something is not done.

[bleedingheart]

43. To be honest it is hard to keep a hospital clean - But it can be better!!!

I was a volunteer and then later a hospital worker.

I was given very strict training on hand washing...which I still employ to this day...

We were to wash our hands after everything...which is great for someone with OCD but not for the average person that sometimes "forgets"...I fall into the OCD category..my hands were bone dry from so much washing...

I also recall that jewelry was verboten but in spite of that people continued to wear jewelry...Staph loves to find little crevices under wedding rings...ick...

Long finger nails are also a big problem... all kinds of disgusting germs lurk under nails...but yet you will see nurses and even some doctors with long nails....

Also bear in mind that sick people are kept in hospitals and then their friends and relatives come to visit..bringing ever so many more bacteria and even food and gift items in for them....

To be honest I think that the "relaxed" atmosphere that people like about modern hospitals is part of the problem and I also think that policies must be enforced. Remember what I said about jewelry and long nails... the next time you go to an ER or a hospital...look around you... "flair" is fine for Fridays...but really is not appropriate for hospitals.

Sick employees should be given adequate time off as well...nothing like having a sick nurse come around to give you meds while she is suffering from strep...but can't take the time off because she will lose her job....so while she may be taking an antibiotic...she may still be infectious...

[Left Is Write]

44. I have a friend who contracted a very persistent staph infection

after the birth of her youngest child. She dealt with it for about a year, give or take.

[GOPisEvil]

51. It's now state law here in Texas that hospitals track infections.

I believe they have to track the number of people that check in without infections and leave with them.

So, yeah, it's a problem, I think.

[eyepaddle]

52. Infections are very common in hospitals

this is where sick people come and there are many chances for infections to spread (bodily fluids, etc.)

I'm interning at a Hospital right now as I tyoe, and I am aware that they have a very active infection control team. Sanitation is rigouorous, but nonetheless not always enough.

Even washing your hands frequently can have a little blowback--your hands can get dry and crack, and allow for a potential vector for microbes. You still are much better off washing than not of course. Also,ure to scrub your fingernails and thumbs (these areas are often missed.)

[eyepaddle]

53. Dupe

[Squatch]

54. Hospital...isn't that where all the SICK people go?

Don't they have infections and stuff?

[fleabert]

65. most pregnant women aren't sick, and they go there...

and xray labs are there, people may not be 'sick' and need an xray. And some sick people don't have infections, but end up with them after being in the hospital for a different reason altogether.

[MountainLaurel]

57. One of the Chicago papers

Did a series on hospital-borne illness a couple years ago. Was well-written, heavily researched, and scary as hell.

Anybody remember this, and have access to a newspapers database?

[RPM]

58. recycled air

hospitals are recycled germ factories. modern HVAC and sick people do not mix. it's like international flights, except where everyone there is ill...

sick sick places

[Ladyhawk]

60. When I was in the hospital, they put me next to a lady with hepatitis.

The nurses and staff got her shit all over the floor of the room and bathroom and on the toilet seat without cleaning it up. I wasn't even supposed to be in that room because I was non-infectious.

I also know of a young man who died due to an infection caused by shoddy hospital care. He had a motorcycle accident, then died as a result of a build-up of bacteria in one of the tubes inserted into his body. (I can't remember what kind of tube it was...only that it was probably the hospital's fault.)

[grace0418]

62. You don't even want to know some of the stories I

hear from my family members who are nurses. The people visiting the hospital don't help much either. They don't wash their hands when they use the toilets intended for the patients. They use the empty beds and the supplies around them but don't tell the nurse so she or he doesn't know the bed has been soiled. People don't think.

[KitchenWitch]

66. Hospitals are often hosts to very resistent types of bacteria

that are difficult to treat. Most healthy people would not be susceptible to such infections, but they prey on those that are not in the best of health, i.e. cancer patients, HIV infected people etc.

Hospitals are scary places, especially tertiary care hospitals such as Johns Hopkins. Good places for treatment, but some of the baggage that comes along is downright frightening.

[tibbir]

67. My mother-in-law had emergency colon surgery in February.

She got a post-operative infection that led into pneumonia. She was in ICU for almost 3 weeks before she finally died. It was very difficult for her as well as her family.