Does anyone here know elshiva better than I do?

[Redstone]

Probably. But what I know of her is that she's a sweet, somewhat naive, shy person who is trying to find her way in this community. I do not always (or sometimes frequently) understand exactly what it is that she's trying to say in her posts, but I like her nonetheless.

So here's the deal: Call me a liberal, chauvinist , or whatever pleases you, but I am hereby proclaiming myself to be her champion, in the admittedly outmoded Elizabethan sense of the word.

What that means is this: You want to have a fight with her, you go through me first. I'm a big guy, and I can take whatever you can throw at me. If you don't want to go through me, and prefer to attack her directly, well, then, we'll know what kind of a man (or woman) you are.

That means anyone who wants to attack her with vile phrases and personal attacks. To me, the true meaning of liberalism (and, indeed, Christianity) is the willingness to think of others, especially others who cannot defend themselves, before we think of ourselves.

I'll be back in the morning if anyone wants to discuss this with me.

Redstone

One further note: "De l’Audace, encore de l’Audace, et toujours de l’Audace." Just in case there were any questions.

[tjdee]

1. I don't even want to know what happened.

I have no beef with elshiva, but surely I'm not the only one who thinks that being a bit thicker skinned is kind of mandatory at DU??

I mean, was someone meaner than usual?

[philosophie_en_rose]

I'm not exactly sure what happened.

I believe it has to do with some comments made about scientology and/ or Tom Cruise. Apparently, there are some scientology supporters in the peanut gallery that were very offended. Elshiva stated that she's sorry several times.

I get the feeling that something else is going on. Like maybe some PM or deleted posts that I missed. Just as inappropriate as whatever Elshiva might have written, if what she wrote was offensive in the first place.

Thick skin is important, but we're all not alike. If elshiva needs a supporter, that begs the question of whether or not there are attackers.

[tjdee]

10. There are scientology supporters at DU?!

:silly:

I'd tend to agree that there was something else going on, because I've been here a while, and I've rarely seen DUers pile on someone as nastily as seems to be the case, what with the "I'm crying" and "I'm still crying" or whatever, threads...and especially PRO-Scientology DUers that would take whatever was said that seriously?

Not computing.

Aww shoot, I really *am* going to have to do a search, aren't I.
I'm not very good at that.

[Redstone]

11. What she wrote was (typically of her) fairly vague,

and in no wise could have been interpreted as being offensive to anyone.

Except, perhaps, someone with an ax to grind, who found an easy person upon whom to grind that ax. I've seen it happen before with her, because zealots see her as a perfect target:

"Hey, lets make elshiva cry and apologize! It'll be easy!"

I've always had a soft spot for the underdog. But then, underdog + Redstone equals a pretty decently-sized dog, even if I'm not the dog I used to be.

Redstone

[BikeWriter]

6. Well, shit. Are we a shark pack that takes out whoever is down...

at the moment? I don't think so.

[tjdee]

8. Were people doing that?

And if so, weren't the posts deleted?

Like I said, I don't know what happened.

:shrug:

[BikeWriter]

12. All I know is I've seen is my friend seemed to need help...

in several threads over the last few weeks. She's articulate, caring, and totally worthy of support as far as I've seen. I saw one post saying she'd had a run-in with someone, then Redstone's post. He's a Brother of mine.

[Redstone]

7. Yes, there is sort of a requirement for a thick skin and

a sense of sarcasm, but outright attacks, especially on people who are not too good at defending themselves, are below contempt.

May I mention again that we are supposed to be a community here? People in communities have arguments, and occasionally fights (I've had a few), but gratuitous attacks are beyond the pale.

And, as liberal-based website, I would hope that we all, although we inderstand the need to have lousd disagreements, would agree that vicious personal attacks should be out of bounds.

Yes?

I had a horrible online fight last night with a DUer I won't mention, and he did the honorable thing by sending me a PM with an aoplogy. I explained my position to him (and apologized for my tone of voice as well) and after the end of a six-or-seven PM exchange, we both feel like we've made a new friend. And I feel damned good about that.

That's what all this DU stuff is supposed tobe about, isn't it? Finding common ground?

I'm REALLY gone for the night this time.

Redstone

[tjdee]

9. Aren't gratuitious attacks not allowed by the mods?

I guess there's a disconnect between what I think is allowed, and what ended up being allowed?

I should probably do a search...sigh....can't we all just get along?

[BikeWriter]

13. Lol! I figure we will all get along. This cyber thing is all cool...

and the little dog can use as BIG a font as the big dog, but the truth will come out. :-)

[havocmom]

2. Redstone, I've been off the boards all day but caught a whiff of what you

speak. Agree with your point

I've got your back. Will be here in the AM to check on everybody's welfare.

[BikeWriter]

3. Brother, I ain't no Christian, but I said much the same thing...

a short while ago. I got your back. She's cool as far as I can tell.

[elshiva]

4. THANK YOU!

:blush:

[redwitch]

5. Chivalry lives!

Bless you kind sir.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

14. well, I sort of did get a feeling that a certain group

of scumbag, bottom-feeding, three headed, toe jam sucking, cross eyed cretins were after her.
But of course, once she turned off fox news, she felt a lot better.
However, it is still nice to have a good Redstone watching your back!

[elshiva]

15. LOL! Good News and Bad News!

I have no cable so
Good News is NO FAUX NEWS!

Bad News is NO Comedy Central with Jon Stewart.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

16. What the fu....????

Don't worry, the LIBERAL media has promised us...once we impeach the baaaastahds, it will be Comedy Central for Everyone!!

[elshiva]

18. LOL! I hope so!

[Zuni]

17. Elshiva has always been cool with me

so we don't have any problems

[Rhiannon12866]

19. Possibly me.

And I've got her back, as well. I was just busy watching Al Franken on Sundance and missed this. And, as I explained to her, personal attacks are not allowed on this board, period. I told her to hit alert and let the mods deal with it. That's what they're here for. And I told her that I'd be watching and that I'd do the same. It never pays to get into it with anyone here, though it's sometimes really tempting.

But I think your post was really sweet. I'm a liberal, too, but envy her having a champion like you. Actually, I do, JohnKleeb, LOL! He and I also look out for one another. It's good to have friends on this board.

Rhiannon:hi:

[derbstyron]

20. Who/what upset her?

hmmm..did I miss something somewhere?

I'll help rise to the defense for a lady's honor.

[sparky_in_ma]

21. elshiva is good people

It was good of you to post this. :thumbsup:

[elshiva]

22. I luff you, hon!

[leftofthedial]

23. look, pal, if you're gonna speak French

I for one will find someone else to mess with.



<pretty noble thing, Redstone. way to go!>

[BikeWriter]

24. Hell, I barely knew he could speak English. :-)

[leftofthedial]

25. sacre bleu

that was funny.

[BikeWriter]

26. LOL! Thank you, there are things about Mr. Redstone we don't know. :-)

[leftofthedial]

30. and I for one am thankful for that fact.

[Droopy]

27. Wonderful post, man

You know what needs to be known about elshiva I think. She's kind, warm, empathetic, caring, and beautiful. I can't see why anybody would have a problem with elshiva. But if they do they are going to have to answer to me as well. And unlike elshiva I can be a bastard.

[elshiva]

28. Thanks, but you are NOT a bastard! You are great!

[Droopy]

29. Thank you

You are great, too. Most people here will tell you that. You just have to believe it.

[JimmyJazz]

31. I've been in touch with her.

She is doing better. :)