An affair with a married man...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

A really good friend of mine told me today that she and her husband have been having an affair with a married guy, a guy we are all friends with. None of us like his wife, but I figured at least HE would like her. She's pregnant with their second child. So the reason I'm posting this is, is this something that happens often, a third in a relationship, and I'm just out of the loop, or is this awful and appauling? Would it be better if the third wasn't married? Hmmm...Will someone please help me wrap my head around this?
Duckie

[VelmaD]

1. Well there's one important fact you left out...

whether the wife of the 3rd is ok with it. If they have an open marriage and she is ok with him getting invovled with your friends...then it's no big deal.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

5. She has no idea.

[swag]

30. Now that's a double-bummer weekend

[BikeWriter]

2. There used to be a wife-swapping/sharing group in my neighborhood...

They're all divorced now.

[BlondieK143]

3. That all depends.

Is the wife okay with this affair? I know a few married people that are into open relationships. Though I'm not so sure I could do it myself, I don't see what's wrong if ALL parties involved have the same understanding and agreement.

I meant to add, other people's business is just that.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

8. This woman would freak out if she found out.

[BlondieK143]

9. Then that's different.

I think it's selfish and completely hurtful. If you aren't happy with the way your marriage is going, you should get out of it.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

12. That's what I was thinking.

I just don't get it. He's terribly unhappy, but rather than get out of the marriage, he stays unhappy, and has more kids with this woman.

[gardenista]

14. "most kids"?

You mean he spreads his joy around even more than you mentioned?

Duckie, watch out for that guy. Sounds like he doesn't take responsibility for his life or his actions.

And is the reason you guys don't like her because of things he says about her, or is it on her own merits?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

20. I meant MORE...Sorry...

And we don't like her because she's just basically not a nice person. She treats him like he's the dumbest child on the face of the planet and it's her job to tear him down all the time.
Duckie

[gardenista]

25. Kinda sounds like she's got him pegged, in my book. nt

[BlondieK143]

15. That's so ridiculous!

He's selfish and I don't care what she's like as a person, no woman deserves to be run through the mud like that. Effin ridiculous!

edited for typo

[YellowRubberDuckie]

21. I agree with you.

[jobycom]

27. As someone in a horrible marriage I can explain why he might stay

I hear women all the time tell me I should leave my marriage, but for a man, leaving a marriage is also leaving the children. If his wife is as bad as you say, then he would have to leave his child, soon children, with a woman you say is cruel, vindictive and petty. She will be worse to the children, and perhaps if he leaves her, far worse to the children as revenge on him. Imagine how they will grow up. He might be able to get custody, but as someone in that situation, i can tell you that it looks pretty risky. My spouse even threatened to kidnap my daughter if I left her. That was a while back, but it scared me into staying.

Without being inside the relationship, you can't tell who is being the least moral, the most right. It could be that his affair keeps him married to her, and keeps him in his children's lives--like a drug that makes the pain and loneliness better. If his wife were a good person, I'd say he was certainly wrong, but if she is as you say, then it's not a question of one being right, the other being wrong. It's just what they do to get through a bad situation.

I have to say, though, that if he's lying to her about their situation, letting her think things are fine, when they aren't, that's his crime, much more so than the affair. Especially having more children with her. Even there, though, not being inside the relationship, it's impossible to know.

So anyway, without knowing him, we aren't in a position to judge, though I'm sure many will. Maybe he's exactly the cad others will describe him as. Maybe her meanness is all his fault, which makes him doubly bad. Or maybe she is really a bad person, and he's doing the best he can to do what's right. Or maybe somewhere in between. They always say that failed marriages are the fault of both partners, but it's just not true. There are bad people, and they are good at fooling good people into liking them.

Disclaimer: don't read into this one way or the other that I've made the same decisions. It's just something I've dealt with, so I have some insights.

[gardenista]

18. well if everyone dislikes her as much as you say,

I have a feeling she's going to "find out" in her 9th month.

though I bet she already knows that he's a POS.

[gardenista]

4. I don't get it. This is a *couple* having an affair with a married man?

And the married guy's wife is pregnant with child #2?

What a mess.

Yeah, Duckie, I'd say that's pretty high on the awful scale, no matter whether anyone "likes" his wife or not.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

7. Like I said, we thought that at least HE liked her.

[radwriter0555]

11. Sounds like something off of Maury or Springer..... how nasty..

That's going to be hard to recover from.

[MountainLaurel]

6. A question

Is the wife aware of the "affair" and approves of it?

I think that issue is what defines whether the situation is awful and appalling, as opposed to just plain ol' polyamory.

Edited to note that I saw your post above where you note that the wife has no idea. In which case, yeah, it's a crappy situation. But no more so than if the hubby were just having an affair with one person.

[Bok_Tukalo]

10. You have to ask?

This is obscene.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

13. I could be completely out of the loop and this could be something...

people do.
Duckie

[Bok_Tukalo]

19. People do obscene things all the time

There is such a thing as right and wrong.

[jobycom]

28. It's not uncommon

It's a strong subculture, tied in with wife swapping, swinging, etc. It's a simple menage a trois, though those are usually two women and one man, but with a married couple and an extra.

I've done some research on this subculture for a novel I'm attempting to write. There are tons of websites on the subject. It's one of those subcultures, like pagans or like gays/lesbians ten years ago, that is terrified of being outed.

Whether they are in this subculture, or just doing this, I don't know. Usually couples won't hook up with a married man if the spouse isn't involved. Trust is an absolute requirement in these arrangements, moreso than in a regular marriage. Each partner has to really trust that the other is not going to leave or get too involved with one of the swingers. Because of this, there is usually little tolerance for lying from anyone.

Some people are really turned on by this. They enjoy seeing their partner with someone else. I've met couples that have done this for thirty years or more. I met a couple in their late fifties who had been doing it since they were married, in their early twenties. Most monogamous marriages don't last that long.

It's odd to me, too, but there it is. I'll let y'all read the novel if I ever get it published.

[YankeyMCC]

16. I doubt it will turn out well

No matter how much fun the 3 involved in the affair may be having. If the guy is married and lying to his wife (hiding his affair) then that's likely to get people hurt. At least the wife who's being deceived and very possibly some or all of the other three.

As to how common this sort of thing is...I could not give any sensible guess. I have seen many polls saying affairs are pretty common. Humans are flawed, they make mistakes, strong healthy marriages find a way to survive, even thrive despite those flaws that make us human. I don't know how common three-way affairs like this are...as a somehow I find it hard to believe (being a guy myself) many men willing to share their wives in such intimate ways like that.

[gardenista]

23. I'll wager it's the wife sharing the husband in this case. nt

[demnan]

17. Trust your instincts

mine say this is awful and appauling.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

22. Yeah, me too...

I can be naive sometimes, so I never know. I never think so, but people tell me that all the time because I give people the benefit of the doubt.
Duckie

[4_Legs_Good]

24. At one point I would have thought it was awful and appalling, but now

I don't know. It's not nice, and it's not honest, but it *is* only sex.

I feel sorry for the wife - that I can say with confidence.

david

[In_The_Wind]

26. Well Duckie ~ it's like this

Yes married people do color outside the box.

Polyamory couples are growing. Some of them actually preform a ceremony to bring a third party into their polyamory family. BUT most people who are poly insist in honesty between all parties. Being poly is about extending a loving family not about cheating.

The fact that the other man's wife doesn't know about the situation is what makes it unacceptable. It will in all probability blow up in their faces.

honesty is the way only way to avoid causing unnecessary pain

[Withywindle]

29. It's a mess...

..but it has nothing to do with it being a 3-way relationship that's the problem. It's the cheating that's the problem. I've been in poly relationships and they can be just fine -- to me, "cheating" is defined by deceit, not by sexual acts. Are the couple having the affair with this guy "cheating" on each other? Not at all, if it's in the open and the consent is sincere. But the guy who's cheating (i.e., lying) on his wife: I think that's wrong, no matter how bad the marriage is.

It's messier than a 1-on-1 affair because there's potential (I'd say inevitability) for hurting more people, though. And why the hell would anybody have MORE kids with a partner they're not happy with? Good Lord.

[Elidor]

31. Sounds like a soap opera

I hate soap operas.

[mcscajun]

32. It's more common than you might think, and the Internet has allowed

individuals and couples to connect where they might not have before.

Two sites for info:
1. http://www.polyamory.com /
This site is currently 'having a facelift', so at the moment, there's not much more than what I posted below.

What is Polyamory?

Polyamory is a relationship style that involves an openness to be being involved with more than one person at the same time. Polyamory is about responsible non-monogamy. Polyamory is not about cheating, or dishonesty. Polyamory pre-supposes that all people involved consent to this arrangement, and are honest about what is going on.

Polyamory is NOT swinging

There is a major distinction to be made between what is called "Swinging" and Polyamory. In swinging, the intent is to engage in non-monogamous sexual behavior without the development of love, affection or personal intimacy between oneself and the secondary partners. Swingers generally seek to engage in recreational sex without emotional intimacy. With polyamory, there is no such restriction, and the intent IS to allow such emotional intimacy to exist, develop, and grow between the people involved.

2. FAQs from the alt.polyamory message board:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/polyamory/faq/