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number9 Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:02 PM
Original message
I don't like or love or care about anyone
I am not an ant. I live for the truths that I learn within myself. I'm not a herd animal
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not a herd animal, huh.... Are you a tree that falls in the forrest
with no one there to hear it?
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number9 Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. if a tree fell in the forest
and there was no one there

they might not hear it, but it's ignorant to think that anyone native or animals wouldn't hear it. If no one was there - it would make a sound that no one would be around to appreciate - is as ignorant as the question?.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Well, from a Physics point of view, no one to hear it would
include any animal with hearing. Perhaps it shoud be re-worded, but that is how the classic question is posed. I did not make it up, I just repeat it.

And as silly as this sounds, the tree's falling is just one possibility, based on our assumptions about gravity and seeing other trees fall. We do not know the tree will fall, and if we introduce any measuring device to see if it fell, or made a sound, we have altered the possibilties for this tree's event.
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Set Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
44. What is the sound of one hand clapping?
(making one hand clapping noises by hitting my fingers against the palm of the same hand...) ;-)
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. So Schroedinger had a tree too, huh? :)
This question always fell flat with me...because it really depends so much on how the word "sound" is defined, thus removing any "mystical" quotient from the supposed paradoxical question.

If sound is a sensation stimulated in auditory organs the answer is simply no.

If sound is only vibration propagating with frequency through a medium, the answer is yes. (Keeping Schoedinger out of it - assuming we agree it fell) ;)
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. Yes, but we don't know if it fell or not
both are options based on other observations of trees falling.
We also do not know if sound exists beyond the range of receptors, because we can't measure something with something to prove it does or does not exist.
It will exist if there are sensors capable of picking it up.
It is a sticky question.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. Bullfrogs :)
The thought experiment assumes that the tree fell (and also, I guess, that non-human organisms aren't considered important).
The answer depends on how "sound" is defined.

I mean if you wanna go all existentialist "Radical Doubt" on the topic - even if we both were there and claimed to experience the auditory sensation of hearing it, we still wouldn't know beyond a radical doubt if the tree falling made a sound.

To me, the point of this thought experiment isn't to lead to the more fundamental question "what is real?". I mean, why not just start with that question? That's why it doesn't feel like an honest question. It's just a silly false paradox stemming from a human centered view of the world.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Of course it is, that is why it is so stimulating, and has
survived all these years.
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Darth_Ole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
46. Right.
Ears aren't needed for there to be vibrations in the air, so yes, there is a sound.

The sound of a tree falling in the forest is the sound of one hand clapping.
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ForrestGump Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Hey, leave the Forrest out of this....
Edited on Sun Jul-20-03 10:04 AM by ForrestGump
:-)
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. a limited life you must live n/t
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number9 Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Nope
and your assumption is sad. You must not have anything better to do than write to a message board something simplistic and foolish.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. you are limited by the narrow walls of your own mind...
and, uh, compare our posts. You win the award for most meaningless posts tonight.

I actually pity you.
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number9 Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. comparison is an example of caring
you win the award for I don't care what you think

pity - just to post that is sad. If I had pity, I would you. Sad.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. If the award is in reference to your post only...
then I will wear it with pride.

Poor you, the tortured antichristian. LMAO at the very vision of it.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. ahhh
now we see why you are alone.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. then what the hell are you doing
posting messages on a message board to complete strangers?
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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Ding ding ding! Contrats, you win a prize!
Here, have a cookie :-)

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
number9 Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I have friends
yup
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Come on. We're here to have many friends and have sex
So forget your "art" or self-examination and get on one or both of those goals. Now!!
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. How sad. N/T
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-19-03 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Does somebody need a hug?
:loveya: No? then how about a :spank: ?
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
16. That's what I told myself when I couldn't find a girlfriend
Then I discovered Hai Karate aftershave, and it opened up a whole new world for me.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. better than Old Spice or Brut by Faberge, no doubt?
;-)
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Ahh, Brut 33 was a guaranteed facilitator of warm nights of lovemaking
"Float like a butterfly,
Sting like a bee,
The great smell of Brut,
And the punch of Ali!"

--Actual text of Brut ad featuring the Greatest himself.

I visited Graceland a couple of years ago. Among Elvis's many personal effects, they feature several items from the King's bathroom. These include bottles of Hai Karate and Brut 33--and on a silver platter, no less!

Let this be a lesson to all frustrated young men who say they don't love or care about anyone.

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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. LMFAO! Well if the King used it, it can't be all bad. n/t
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
20. Then you are a lucky being!
I can't seem to turn it off within myself; I keep liking and loving and caring and getting hurt. I wish I could take the Blue Pill.

Tucker
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. The Unexamined Navel
is the meaningless navel.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. You're nobody till somebody loves you!
Go Dean!!!!v
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
40. "Everybody loves somebody sometime..."
Dino is my favorite!
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
24. Hey, I'm cool with it
Why is everybody always so critical of people who want to be loners?
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
25. You don't have to stop learning
To be part of society. You also don't have to follow the same path everyone else sets for themself. You will find however that in sharing your discoveries in a honest and understanding manner you will gather many to you that will gladdly learn and perhaps help you to discover some aspect of your path you may have missed.

It is a bad idea to seek the truth absolutely on your own. There is no one there to help you to recognise a delusion when it takes hold of your mind. You can find yourself running down a path that leads to a fall in no time.

Even the truths you discover on your "own" are built on the ground laid by those that came before you. In human society you never truly can progress on your own. We take the ideas of those around us and rework them and present them back to the world for consideration.

In proclaiming yourself so absolutely independent you deny your own humanity. If you truly believe this and set out upon such a journey on your own you will soon find that your own brain will betray you. The brain is wired for interaction with other humans. Isolation leads to depression, neurocies, and a host of mental problems. I would advise you to instead of isolating yourself because of your disgust with the rest of the human race you seek to better understand yourself and your reasons for being so impatient with people. We are all born ignorant and screaming into this world. Not everyone is going to grasp the truth right off but perhaps there is more to the world than just the truth. Perhaps it is ok for some people to just live life with their misunderstandings as long as they are not harming anyone.
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I don't agree with your point about isolation, Az,
but I agree with some of what you say.

Sometimes isolation is very healing and helpful. For myself, I have found that living sort of miser-like has been more helpful to me than living in situations with a lot of social interaction. I have found that interacting closely with just a few people and having a lot of time alone with nature makes me happier and healthier, even though other people don't understand that.

Time with books and art and such things are also valuable. It's better for some people to do things differently than everybody else and maybe try to extend ties slowly to interacting with people.

Don't know if any of this applies to you, number 9, but just a few thoughts.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. I understand
In fact that is why I specifically used the term absolute isolation. Not all minds are the same. Some can manage with little interaction while others are utterly dependent on it. The focus was more on the pursuit of truth. In this we are best served in the pursuit by working together.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
28. Sorry, but you're wrong.
Edited on Sun Jul-20-03 10:29 AM by philosophie_en_rose
If you do not need other people to love or to learn with you, why are you here? Whether you like it or not, you exist in a world with other beings. You need other people to support your existence - unless you live in the woods like Thoreau or something. Even then, showing affection doesn't mean being a tool. You can have friends and care about others without being a lemming. You can take time for yourself without rejecting everything else.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. why are we here??
Mark Twain said that "We are here to help others, but why the 'others' are here...i have not a clue"
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LeftPeopleFinishFirst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
30. all you need is love nt
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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
31. Then why are you here?
One wonders how you can be a liberal and not care about anyone.
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number9 Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. my beliefs regarding others
don't have to be diluted. No one gets upset or shortchanged in my world. I don't have to give of myself, and don't expect others to give to me any of the false, temporal, ephemeral emotions. It's easier that way. Liberal beliefs don't have to translate to caring about others. One can think thoughts without action - happens all the time. I read words that others write and wonder what actions occur based on those words that come from beliefs. Most times, I would guess, nothing happens.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. have you tried...
meditation, i find it easier sometimes to let the answers that lie under all the mental dialogue to quietly rise and blissfully inspire me.. they seem to get damaged when you dig them up mentally.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Well, it's your choice.
But it seems very lonely to be a Vulcan amongst humans.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
50. Hhhmmmm...........
better than being a human amongst humans ...........
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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #32
51. I seriously have no idea what you're talking about
Could you attempt to actually clarify what you're saying, rather than just trying to sound smart?

If you don't care about anyone, then how can you be a liberal?
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. Heck by the nature of this post you act like many herd animals I have seen
they are mostly male, mostly American and mostly between the ages of 18 and 35 acting as though they are independent and by their sheer number (of rebellious males running around pretending to be independent) they reveal the herdishness of their true interior.

Irony is a bitch.
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number9 Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. you could be right but
I'm an older fart. Not rebellious, just temporarily a little depressed.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. OK that explains it.
Then I guess the original post reflects something other than your core. But what's the depression about? What happened?
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
41. i'm sorry to hear that
no man is an island...
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salmonhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
43. You're a cat. Aren't you?
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-20-03 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. I feel bad for you
That sounds pretty lonely. I have always felt a bit odd and always as an outsider. I have always been happier, though, when I have had close friends to care about and learn from. I am not saying that you need to be someone's follower. The exchange can be wonderfully mutual. I don't know your situation. For all I know, you just lost someone who you cared about. If you were hurt and betrayed, it can be hard to trust again. Give people a chance though. A mutual friendship is a wonderful thing.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
47. If that is true
(and I'm not saying this to be mean or as a put down) then you should seriously think about counseling for depression.I've been there.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-21-03 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
49. Ralph Waldo Emerson
"No man can have society on his own terms, if he seeks it, he must serve it too."
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