Fundies: I can't relate

[hyphenate]

The world of a fundie is completely foreign to me. It's like a place where people learn from a very young age to ignore the real world around them. One "benefit" from the web is that you get to meet people who you would otherwise never get to know on any complex level. For this, while in some cases is a great joy, there are actually times when you would never want to know the people in real life.

There was this fundie on a small board I go to. She was in her late twenties, early thirties, I would say, and in real life, I suppose she could be considered a personable person. But after knowing her online, I have allowed my personal disdain of cults like hers to color my view of her world. It's not that she's a terrible person or anything, but we are of totally different worlds, and her world is one I would never, ever want to be part of.

Her views were based a lot on fallacy and ignorance, IMO, to the point where all the religious contradictions she had faith in could be seen swirling in her mind, but deftly obliterated one after another by rationalization.

Your true fundie: went to a private school (her father is a doctor), went to Bible college, and is an active oponent to pro-choice. Believes in the Rapture, and of course wants nothing else but to propagate for humanity. At one point, she said she was going to continue to breastfeed her (almost three year old) daughter because (*ahem*) it gave her bigger boobs.

Her father, the doctor, is an ardent campaigner for anti-choice--she helps him out in that pursuit. Her mom died when she was about 12 from breast cancer, so daddy dearest raised her. She plays the organ at her church and her most popular hobby is scrapbooking. She's also said she was going to homeschool her daughter, because she didn't want her learning to "put condoms on bananas." (direct quote)

She was also trying to conceive again--can't these people be happy with what they have? She was on fertility drugs to do so (nature wasn't fast enough for her, I guess), and is now on the verge of spawning two more fundie (twin) boys.

She ignores the old testament except where it agrees with the new testament, saying something to the effect that everything before JC was around is considered only hearsay. She was raised to some degree in luxury, and now tries to imprint her fundie values on people with whom the only thing she shares is breathing oxygen.

I tried to argue with her, but somehow every time I tried, I felt for some reason that I was hurting her feelings. So many times I wanted to call her a bitch, but somehow or another, my sensibilities said I'd be listening to her crying too much. So I finally got the courage to post "Kissing Hank's Ass" to her, and that was the end--I don't think I ever saw her again. (Of course it was the milder, "Kissing Hank's Butt" that I actually used.)

At the very least, our two worlds would never meet. Raised in an urban setting, just about the line of poverty that many seem to dwell at, attending public schools, being raised in a major city and understanding the mind of urban dwellers only too well, it's hard to understand someone raised in the (near) lap of luxury, trying to impose their beliefs on others. It's sort of like when Jehovah's Witnesses show up on your doorstep, or when Mormons go on their "missions" to save the world. Our family was never truly religious, although I recall my mom beating the crap out of me one day when I didn't go to Sunday school. But that was long ago, and so far away.

There are many, many others like this girl. Too many, in fact. Too many of them who can't understand and never will understand all the complex issues in the world today. To them (like to the asshole in the WH right now) things can only be black or white, and shades of grey are unwelcomed intrusions on their lives.

How do others fare with people like this? Did you try to teach them only to find out that there is no way you can shake them of their ideology? Did you tune them out, because they tried to shake you of yours? Do you just never meet someone like this, and wonder how they have managed to survive living in a world devoid of reason? I've decided for the sake of my own sanity that they're the assholes, not me. And while some of them might be all right as people, they're no damned good to our country's salvation because they try to impose their values on all of us without allowing us to live our own lives.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. Hate to tell you

Some people, especially when it comes to deeply-held, unexamined beliefs, learn only through pain.

[mongo]

2. Thankfullly, I don't have to much anymore

as being their smut peddler, they don't identify themselves to me that way. Had a 50yo guy in first thing this morning in a ball cap AND a hoody pulled over the hat. Seemed to be in a real hurry at the register.

but when I was a systems analyst for AEP (America's Enormous Pollutor), I was completly surrounded by them. In fact, my team leader was one of them.

I just tried to be friendly. They all liscened to talk radio all day long and my team leader would come in to my cube and espout whatever Rush said 5 minutes ago as if it was his own deep thought. He had no idea I was listening to the same thing in my earphones. What an ass.

What is this "kissing Hank's Ass" of which you speak?

[hyphenate]

3. Kissing Hank's Ass

Is somewhat of a skit aimed at fundie beliefs. Since it's been a long while since I read it, I just googled it and came up with numerous sites where it's posted. Here is one that you can read:

http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/d/r/dryfoo/www/Spritz-yule/hanks-ass.html

I personally think it has the whole truth in it, but others might be offended. (the wrong ones, of course!)

[hyphenate]

4. Here is the "Kissing Hank's Ass" bit:

This was purportedly written by a Rev. Jim Huber.

Kissing Hank's Ass

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and he kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise; maybe you'll win a small lotto; maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?

John: "Hank has certain connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed:

Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't drink.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.
Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But #9 says 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with #2. And #6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2; 9 just clarifies 2. As to 6, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary blushes. John says: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary looks positively stricken. John shouts: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary sticks her fingers in her ears: "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary faints. John catches her: "Well, if I'd known you where one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

[LynzM]

5. LMAO

I know that's gotta be really offensive to Christians, but... if you're not one, it does kinda hit the nail on the head, about a lot of feelings and observations.

[hyphenate]

10. Yes, it does

And I found the original author's website and he's got some more great items there, including a few parodies of Jack Chick tracts. I recommend passing out the link to any and all.

http://www.jhuger.com/

[Amfortas]

12. Great story !

[Shredr]

6. Off-topic: I love your screen name

"Hyphenate" So simple, but it says so much!

(Sorry, I know this doesn't help -- I just had to say it.)

[hyphenate]

8. *Blush*

Thanks. :)

[MountainLaurel]

7. It's interesting

My BF and I rented the movie "Saved" a couple months ago. He thought it was funny, but was utterly speechless when I told him how much it reminded me of people and institutions I knew growing up in WV. Being raised in a non-churchgoing liberal home in an urban area (even if he did attend Catholic school), he just couldn't believe that people like those existed, with the Christian rock, gay kids being sent to reeducation centers or mental institutions, teens picketing abortion clinics and wearing chastity promise rings. It was completely outside his frame of reference.

[hyphenate]

9. A lot of that stuff

went zooming past me as well for the first 20 years of my life. Then I started to get involved in a lot more worldly pursuits and found that the dirty urban world I lived in was beautiful in comparison to a lot of the shit out there in the suburbs and rural areas of the country. There is one commercial that most people don't "get" insofar as the point it makes: it's one of those campaign for a drug-free America commercials, and to paraphrase, an announcer says that 40% of all illegal drugs are found in an urban, city setting. Then it kind of pauses and asks "guess where the other 60% are from?" It's very easy to see that people think that an urban setting is where the concentration of drugs and crime come from, but it's not really the truth.

[MountainLaurel]

11. Amen about that 60 percent

Even government researchers have problems facing their predefined notions. I sat in a federal task force meeting once watching some researcher from the National Institute on Drug Abuse stutter when asked why indicators of methamphetamine use were drawing such an outcry from the government in terms of "we've got to prevent this potential crisis among our youth" when 10 years earlier the same indicators (which showed the start of the crack epidemic) were ignored by the government. Of course, the difference: most meth users are white middle-class people, it's prevalent in the Midwest and in suburban and rural communities. I generally referred to the task force work as the "Oh no, white kids in Kansas are doing hard drugs instead of drinking themselves to death" project.