andrew jackson & the traiL of tears

[sniffa]

i may be a LittLe sLow on the draw at times, but it just hit me - why is andrew jackson on the $20 biLL? why do we honor an american version of hitLer - and his "finaL soLution" for the "indian probLem"?
:mad:

maybe aLL the reaganites shouLd push to get him on the 20 instead of the dime.

[arcane1]

1. grrr... don't get me started on f-ing Jackson

:grr::mad:

not to mention the dissonance-inducing holiday known as "Lee/Jackson/King Day" :crazy:

[sniffa]

3. i didn't even know of that hoLiday

:shrug:

it's just astounding when thinking about what he did. why wouLd anyone want to honor that?

[arcane1]

9. the capitalists have EVERY reason to honour that

the remaining 99.9% of us have none

The MLK holiday is generally called MLK day, but Lee and Jackson are also revered on that day too, for some twisted reason. I guess they had to add 2 racists to the holiday in order to get away with honouring a black man :shrug:

[hfojvt]

2. as a small business owner

I think the 20 should be banned anyway.
I usually only kept $30 change in my drawer. Banks just love to give out twenties, so often that is all that a customer has. One customer using a 20 on a 3 dollar sale could clean me out of change. Help us out here banks, give people some fives and tens.
I also proposed the $5 coin which are common in other countries. That would increase use of the $1 coin which would save money because paper ones wear out quicker. People did not use the $1 coin because they do not pay for things with coins. If we had $5 coins, then people would use coins for small purchases. Since it is my idea though, I think MY picture should be on the $5 coin. :evilgrin:

[redqueen]

4. Wasn't he selected for his role in setting up the fed?

Maybe that explains a whole lot...

[sniffa]

5. the bank?

i think that was hamiLton.

i thought he was seLected because of his overwheLming popuLarity as a war hero (for sLaughtering indians and specuLating their Lands at enormous profits).

[redqueen]

7. Damn...

Yeah, I think you're right about Hamilton.

If you're right about why Jackson was selected, then I think I'm going to feel sick for a while.

:cry:

[NoPasaran]

20. The Fed was created 1913 I believe

As part of the reforms of the Progressive Era. Hamilton and Jefferson were both long gone.

[fishwax]

11. His war heroism wasn't with respect to Indians

but rather stems from the War of 1812 with the British. His slaughtering/removal of the Indians came later :(:grr:

[sniffa]

15. i'd have to sLightLy disagree

his hero status came from the battLe of new orLeans, but his hero reputation was aLready being baLLooned during the creek war of 1814.

[fishwax]

29. yeah, you're right about that

I was thinking of that still within the context of the War of 1812, since Creek leaders had allied with the British, but of course that doesn't change the fact that he was slaughtering Indians at that point.

[hfojvt]

27. actually one of Jackson's "accomplishments"

was to close the 2nd national bank. Something economic historians figure hurt US economic growth.

[Larkspur]

6. Jackson is the one who shifted the Democratic Party from the

Jeffersonian aristocratic Party to the Populist Party and supported policies for those who worked as opposed to those who inherited wealth.

While I opposed Jackson's policies towards the Indians, Jackson was a major factor in reshaping the Democratic Party to be a Progressive Party for those who worked as opposed to the Federalist/Whigs/Republicans who became the Party supporting economic royalists.

[sniffa]

8. isn't that more of a myth though?

granted, it was the working (white) man who put him in office (the 'western' territories didn't have the restrictions of Land ownership that the originaL states had for voting) but once he got there, he mainLy kept JQA's administration in pLace.

it seems to be more Like today's dubya - presents himseLf as a man of the peopLe when he's cLearLy not.

[Maddy McCall]

22. Yes, it's a huge myth.

[hollywood926]

10. Right, you have to consider the temper of the times...

Jefferson had slaves, but you can't discount all the great things he did because of that. It was a different mentality. They didn't think of slaves as "men." That sounds awful to us, but when that's all you know and have ever known, you don't think it's abnormal.

Same with the "Indians." Most were peace-loving, but some actually were the savages they were thought to be (the Iroquois, as I recall, were quite violent and nasty).

The temper of the times...

[sniffa]

12. very true - temper of the times

but... when did he go on the 20? (i don't know, i'LL have to googLe or sumpin)
and i'm generaLLy curious why peopLe don't think of this now or in recent years. i'm aLso curious why i didn't Learn about what a fucking bastard he was in high schooL history cLass.

[arcane1]

13. because that is not the point of high-school history class

the point of that is to generate reverence and trust for your leaders, not to teach what actually happens in history

ever read "Lies My Teacher Told Me"? If not, you should, but have a punching-bag nearby

[jjmalonejr]

14. Read Zinn's "A People's History of the United States"

There's a LOT you don't learn in high school history class.

[arcane1]

17. I'm currently reading that for the 2nd time

kicks ass :toast:

[sniffa]

18. i read (and reread) kenneth davis' books

don't know much about history and don't know much about the civiL war - both, fucking outstanding books.

[arcane1]

19. hmm.. I hadn't heard of them..

but they are on my list now, thanks!!

[sniffa]

21. it's an outstanding read

if you're not a reader, it's perfect; it's interesting - written in a Q&A format, and it's great for the bathroom since you can open up to any section and get moving.

[arcane1]

23. with 2 hours of commute time per day...

I'm avid! :D

[Tafiti]

25. I read it last year.

You may have heard of it, but a nice complimentary book is Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Louwen. Basically the same concept - a revisionist account of U.S. History - but the method is much different. He examines 12 popular high school history books and lays out what they get wrong, what they leave out, where they mislead, etc. It's a great book, but I'm halfway through right now.

[arcane1]

26. awesome book

:toast:

[semillama]

28. Lies Across America is even better

It's all about public versions of history as represented by monuments. It looks at why, across America, indians are represented as savages, white men are always discovering things, why massacres only happen to whites, and why war museums have selective memories.

[Tafiti]

31. Sounds great.

I'll add that to the ol' list. Seriously, I have a list on my computer that I keep, which currently has 34 books on it, in no particular order - just books I want. Not to mention that I have 15 to 20 on my bookshelf that I've already bought, but haven't read yet.

Look like Lies Across America will fill that #35 slot! Thanks for the tip.

[DELUSIONAL]

16. he was a horrible man -- just horrible

but then that was the general societal attitude toward Indians. Slaughter of Indians would continue throughout the 19th century.

What is ironic is that many Cherokee tried to become like the whites -- and they were still hated by the "Christians" of that era.

The only "good" thing that came out of this was that the US government was sued -- and a large number of Indians were listed in rolls.

In some states (like Washington State) the Indians are still hated (by some people) because the US has been forced to honor parts of treaties and the Indians have retained their land and fishing and hunting rights. Former Senator Slade Gorton was a well known Indian hater who spent most of his career trying to put "them 'injins' in their place. He perhaps wanted to be the modern day Andrew Jackson.

[Tafiti]

24. It's funny you brought that up.

I think about this all the time. It's truly appalling, though sadly not surprising. He was a hero for securing our "manifest destiny."

[Tsiyu]

30. We used to camp at Lake Winfield Scott

named after the asswipe Caucasian who helped force the Cherokee out of the place we camped. It used to piss me off it wasn't named for a native.

Andrew Jackson is a dude best not celebrated. I agree.

[Abelman]

32. Yeah

Our history is rife with "heroic" presidents who were terrible people. Lincoln was one of them - his treatment of natives was appalling.