Rap-haters are the ideological heirs of the rock-haters of the 1950s.

[NightTrain]

Somewhere in this apartment is my copy of a book titled, ANTI-ROCK: THE OPPOSITION TO ROCK & ROLL, published in 1988. Once I find it, I'm going to post some quotes from the anti-rock forces of the 1950s. They will prove my point that while the music has changed, the rhetoric of those who bash it has not.

[coloradodem2005]

1. Please do post some of that.

[Stop_the_War]

2. I agree.

[stpalm]

3. rap sucks.

I hate rap because it is not music.

Rock music is music. Rap is reading words. I like some rap (Atmosphere is awesome), if the lyrics are insightful, but most rap sucks. I don't hate it because it's 'immoral' or some shit like that- it just isn't pleasing to my ears.

[mark414]

4. atmosphere! ha!

[stpalm]

what about them? (nt)

[mark414]

12. well...

just kind of funny is all

and if hip hop is just "reading words" then how do you explain jay-z? dude has never written down a lyric in his life...everything comes straight from his mind...

[Webster Green]

8. OMFG! Thats what my parent's said about the Beatles!

Lighten up Gramps! It is definitely music!

I'm pushing 60, and used to hate it too, but eventually it grabbed me. Now I love it!

[NightTrain]

11. It's also what my father said about Jimi Hendrix.

For that matter, it's what my grandfather said about my dad's music, which he called, "rotten roll."

[stpalm]

16. I love Jimi Hendrix.

All I am saying is that I don't like rap as a genre, although I appreciate certain artists.

[NightTrain]

19. Interesting. What you said above about rap describes my feelings...

...toward progressive rock, which I generally consider an oxymoron.

[Sporadicus]

28. One Senior Citizen I Know Refers to Rap as 'Rat Music' n/t

[stpalm]

14. Lighten up, Gramps?

I'm 16. I just don't like it. That is my opinion.

We had a talent show at school this week, and these kids who people refer to as "the shopko gangstas" (because they shoplifted from shopko once) did this rap. One of the lines was "I have to steal my food", when, in fact, the kid's mom is absolutely loaded. Half of the song was "click click BOOM" (gun sounds). Another kid, who calls himself "JRX" because his name is John Ross, who is a tall blond kid with geeky glasses also rapped. It was HILARIOUS.

That's not why I hate rap- its because I just dont like the way it sounds. It should be noted that I LOVE certain Sir-Mix-A-Lot songs and The Sugarhill Gang, however:

You ever go over to a friends house to eat
and the food just aint no good?
I mean, the macaroni's soggy,
the peas are mushed,
and the chicken tastes like wood!


Genius!

[NightTrain]

20. Dude, humor has been an integral part of black music for a century.

One of the things I've always liked about rap (and black music in general) is that it has a sense of humor and doesn't take itself too, too seriously.

[stpalm]

37. I know- that's why I said I love those guys.

It's great stuff. It seems like you are debating me on that.

If you were refering to the rappper kids, don't laugh. Nobody was laughing with them- everyone was laughing at them. They were all skinny rich white kids.

[Webster Green]

22. It was still food though, correct?

Weather or not you appreciate a certain type of music is subjective.

The fact that you don't like it doesn't cause it to stop being music.

Sorry I called you gramps. You sure had me fooled!

[NightTrain]

10. "I hate rap because it is not music."

According to veteran rock critic Dave Marsh:

"Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not music. There were people who thought that John Coltrane and Charlie Parker were idiots. Rap's musical innovations include the freshest approach to polyrhythms that popular music has ever seen, as well as the most daring use of voices as percussion devices ever placed on any electromagnetic device. The art of aural montage reached a pinnacle with rap's pioneering use of sampling and electronic percussion."

P.S. See post #6 for some historical context.

[Webster Green]

17. One definition of music.....

"An artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner"

[Sporadicus]

5. Same Racist Overtones

One of the primary objections to rock & roll in the '50s was that it too closely resembled 'race music.' Protestations against rap? Same song, different verse.

[RetroLounge]

23. To some extent, but too broad of a brush.

To me, Rap just sucks.

RL

[Sporadicus]

27. Not Implying ALL Criticism Stems from Racist Ideology

but there's a fair amount of it underlying criticism of rap in general.

[RetroLounge]

71. I'm sure there is.

and probably also had some rascist critics of motown, blues, jazz, disco, etc.

Proves nothing...

RL

[NightTrain]

6. Haven't found the book yet, but off the top of my head...

...the anti-rock puritans of the 1950s accused the music of, among other things, having vulgar lyrics, promoting juvenile deqlinquency and sexual promiscuity, and of being terrible music in general. If you want to go back even farther, the parents of the above-cited puritans said similarly negative things about jazz in the 1920s.

In my years of research, I've noticed a pattern: namely, that these people had no problem with African-American music until their innocent little white children discovered it. Then, and only then, did it become the scourge of America's moral and social fabric.

[mark414]

9. white america

eminem called these folks out BAD

See the problem is, I speak to suburban kids
who otherwise woulda never knew these words exist
Whose moms probably woulda never gave two squirts of piss
'til I created so much motherfuckin turbulence!
Straight out the tube, right into your living rooms I came
And kids flipped, when they knew I was produced by Dre
That's all it took, and they were instantly hooked right in
And they connected with me too because I looked like them
That's why they put my lyrics up under this microscope
Searchin with a fine tooth comb, it's like this rope
waitin to choke; tightenin around my throat
Watchin me while I write this, like I don't like this (Nope!)
All I hear is: lyrics, lyrics, constant controversy, sponsors working
round the clock to try to stop my concerts early, surely
Hip-Hop was never a problem in Harlem only in Boston
After it bothered the fathers of daughters startin to blossom
So now I'm catchin the flack from these activists when they raggin
Actin like I'm the first rapper to smack a bitch or say faggot, shit!
Just look at me like I'm your closest pal
The posterchild, the motherfuckin spokesman now for..

http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/eminem/the_show/america.mnm.txt

[Swede]

7. My hating rap ain't ideological.

It's just not pleasing to my ears. Like thrash-metal or modern country music I don't like it. You can listen to it all you want.

[Stop_the_War]

13. listen ta 50 Cent's "Candy Shop" and tell me that's not da sexiest rap eva

LOL :silly:

[RetroLounge]

15. I think you are wrong here.

I dislike Rap because it is not music, it is poetry spewed to a drumbeat. An electronic drumbeat. Don't even need a drummer. Is there a guitarist there? No? Then why bother.

As a (former) rock musician, my reasons I care not for rap are:

1) Simply, I don't like it, it's not music.
2) They (mostly) don't play musiucal instruments, hence, it's not music. The ones that play and have a real live band, tend to be more palatable.
3) DJ's, scratchers, etc. while talented are not musicians. Sorry, a turntable is NOT a musical instrument.
4) Repetative and boring.
5) Did I mention it's not music?
6) Did I mention I don't like it?

As far as opposing it? Nah, I just don't listen to it and don't buy any of it. It obviously makes money, and people will buy anything they are told to.

Hell, even Brittany Spears made millions. But I wouldn't call her a singer either.

RL

[NightTrain]

18. See posts #6 and #10.

[RetroLounge]

21. I did, and they mean nothing to me.

I like most all music. The kind with musicians.

I grew up with 60's rock as a kid, 70's rock in high school, 80's rock as a young adult. I love the music from the 50's, especially the early rock and roll, which led me to dig deeper and discover the original songs that the white musicians were covering, and I started buying 45's of the original label stuff for my jukebox. I love jazz and bebop. I love soul and blues and motown. I love smaltzy pop. I love rat pack era tunes. I love Elvis, even the crap from movies. I love big band and swing. I love rockabilly, and the blues and gospel that influenced them. I love early roots country, maybelle carter, etc. and bluegrass. I love classic country, outlaw country, alt-country, and all it's hybrids. I love ragtime. I love dixieland. See, I like most all music.

I just don't like Rap. It does nothing for me...

My opinion is it's not music, and no matter what some ivory tower critic in Rolling stone says, or some DJ with his own show, or anyone or anywhere else, I don't need to like it, I don't need to appreciate it, I don't need to understand it, and I don't need to respect it.

and I really don't give a shit if it sells a million or sells none.

It sucks.

RL

[mark414]

24. come on dude, you're smarter than that

[RetroLounge]

25. Care to expound on that, or just attack?

Why do Rap lovers take it so personally?

RL

[mark414]

33. i didn't mean to come off as attacking

but i take it personally for a lot of reasons, one of the main ones probably being that i see it attacked so often in the way that you did it, calling it "not music," etc...

i like this article here, it's a short one:

http://www.talonmarks.com/news/2003/09/10/AE/What-Is.HipHop.Anyway-459955.shtml

i also posted this article about "the greatest emcee of all time" which really summed it up better than i ever could've:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2667497&mesg_id=2668152

hip hop means a lot to me, it made me realize a lot of things about life and myself and it's something that's inside me, therefore i feel attacked personally when people make broad statements about it. yeah a lot of it sucks, but a lot of any genre sucks.

[NightTrain]

34. "Why do Rap lovers take it so personally?"

Because rap has been the victim of the most mean-spirited, ignorant and virulent attacks on any genre of music since the disco phenomenon of the late 1970s. No other style of music (yes, music!) has inspired such vitriol from the ostensible liberals who post to this message board.

I'm not saying everybody has to like rap, but to make sweeping attacks on it without understanding the genre's history and cultural context is just plain wrong. Not to mention that it makes you sound ignorant and closed-minded to people with a clue.

I personally don't care for most progressive rock. However, I would never claim that it's not music, nor would I call it garbage. Why? Because many people at DU love prog-rock, and I try to respect their tastes. It would be nice if the rap-haters around here did the same for those of us who like that stuff.

[mark414]

39. well said

never took you for a hip hop fan

that said, you're doing a good job with this thread, thanks

[nickgutierrez]

61. To be fair, though...

Disco deserved it.

:D

[silverpatronus]

67. < small voice >

i like disco < /small voice >

[nickgutierrez]

69. Yeah, I guess I'm starting to come around to it.

But I'm not old enough to remember when disco 'mattered'. For what that's worth, I'm not old enough to remember when disco 'existed' or 'was made'.

[Webster Green]

38. Here's the deal.....

From my previous replies in this thread...

One definition of music: "An artistic form of auditory communication incorporating instrumental or vocal tones in a structured and continuous manner"

Weather or not you appreciate a certain type of music is subjective.

The fact that you don't like it doesn't cause it to stop being music.

Its the dismissal of rap as "not even music" that gets me. I used to say the same thing, but now I know how riciculous a statement that is. Personally, I came around to rap and hip-hop after listening to a lot of 'Sublime', a great band that cut a large swath across all kinds of different musical styles. I loved that band so much that I was willing to expand my horizons and I started listening to hip-hop and rap.

Thanks Bradley!

[NightTrain]

36. Judging from what you wrote above, you've no business calling anyone...

...else an "ivory tower critic."

[RetroLounge]

68. because you say so?

RL

[NightTrain]

47. Definition of "ivory tower critic"....

One who listens to the music intently, reads about it hungrily, draws conclusions from his thousands of hours of research, and shares his findings with others.

Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't give a shit about somebody like that.

[RetroLounge]

70. I don't make up my tastes to meet a critic.

Sorry, I think for myself.

RL

[tigereye]

55. some of the first rappers

I think were Jamaicans. I love Linton Kwesi Johnson and he has a lot to say. I do think rap is music, poetry put to music and rhythm ( some forms of jazz also have these elements) although a lot of it ( hardcore=- type rap) I do find offensive, sexist, etc. But a lot of music that is not rap is like that, too.

I like what Chuck D had to say and KRS One and Run DMC and the Digable Planets. Some scratching can be pretty impressive. I even have learned to look at Eminem a little differently. I only say this since I'm an old school punk type who likes many different types of music.

[WMliberal]

26. I like rap. My only beef is as a musician. It's the same thing I say about

techno. I can't STAND the repetition in the background. Two measures repeat about thirty times; a new measure to lead into the next part; Repeat original two measures another thirty times.

The repetition is effective at getting you to focus on the lyrics, if only to ignore the damn background noise.

[Kahuna]

29. Sorry but, for thousands of years, melody was considered a very..

important component of "music." I don't accept the hack jobs that people want to pass off as music these days. And it's not just rap. The last two cds I purchased by current artists were, Baby Face and Toni Braxton ,because I happen to like bridges, melodies and harmony. I don't consider "alking," singing or music. It never was in the past..but now we have to change our standards because people who can't sing, or play instruments want to have a "music" career? Puleeze. Give me a break. I won't lower my standards. Sorry.

[RetroLounge]

31. Exactly, Thank you!

"It never was in the past..but now we have to change our standards because people who can't sing, or play instruments want to have a "music" career? Puleeze. Give me a break. I won't lower my standards"

Nor will I...

RL

[Kahuna]

35. LOL! Right on, Baby! And, might I add,

because people who likewise can't sing or play an instrument can relate to rappers and hold them as heroes for the likewise musically challenged? :evilgrin:

[NightTrain]

42. I guess you also hate a capella, then?

After all, it has no musicians in it!

[Kahuna]

43. But, it is singing. Isn't it? I consider "singing" music. I consider ..

talking...talking. :shrug: Got it now?

[mark414]

45. so does that mean

that a poet up on stage reading his poetry isn't really an artist because he's just talking?

if you think hip hop is just "talking" then you've got a whole lot to learn

[Kahuna]

49. I consider poets artists. But not musicians. Even when the

Last Poets had a big hit back in the day, we didn't delude ourselves into calling it "music." Duh. And for the record, I never said that rap wasn't an "art form." I've always contended that if you insist upon calling it music, at least admit it's very bad music.

[RetroLounge]

66. No actually, I've seen the bobs among others.

It's got talent and melody. It's got song.

Sorry, try again.

RL

[NightTrain]

40. If you like melody, then you must hate James Brown.

Not to mention 90% of the funk music of the 1970s.

[Kahuna]

48. Please. Give me a break. You may consider yourself an expert..

But, I was there, Baby. Don't try to tell me about James Brown or funk. I grew up on it. I wasn't a great fan of Brown. So you can leave that out of this. Some of his music was regurgitated grunts which I didn't care for, and some of it was original music. This is a Man's World comes to mind. You would have to post a specific funk song that you would want to use as an example. Some of it I liked. Some I did not. But at all times the music was original. That much I'll give it.

[mark414]

50. and hip hop's not original?

news to me...

hip hop is a natural extension of the creativity and improvisation that was found in both jazz and funk

it is all a part of the natural evolution of music

[Kahuna]

52. No, it is not original. All of the singers follow the same style and..

format. That is not original. Why in my day, nobody would dare think of copying someone else's style. It just was done.

[mark414]

54. what is hip hop?

Hip Hop means the whole culture of the movement.. when you talk about rap..Rap is part of the hip hop culture..The emceeing..The djaying is part of the hip hop culture. The dressing the languages are all part of the hip hop culture.The break dancing the b-boys, b-girls ..how you act, walk, look, talk are all part of hip hop culture.. and the music is colorless.. Hip Hop music is made from Black, brown, yellow, red, white.. whatever music that gives you the grunt.. that funk.. that groove or that beat.. It's all part of hip hop.... - Afrika Bambaataa

Hip-Hop (rap) does more than just define and validate African-American art and identity.

Rap's bold and different organization; its rhythm and message poetically articulate cultural struggles young audiences identify with worldwide.

Tricia Rose, author of Black Noise: Rap Music and Black Culture in Contemporary America did a survey in 1994 that suggested that the single largest purchasing group of rap music in the United States may be middle-class white teenagers.

Rap music is media content and cannot be explained by misconceptions and racial discourse. It is the sound. It is the beat. It is the story.

Its social and political message is the voice of today's youth and warrants listening to. The musical poetics depict cultural dominations, struggles and delights.

Hip-Hop culture "represents" (is inclusive) and dispenses truth as the artist sees it. Rap entertains and voices a desire for change.

For an esoteric appreciation of Rap and perspectives in music history see academician Adam Krims' book titled "Rap Music and the Poetics of Identity" (Cerritos College library call number ML 3531 .K75 2000).

The Birth of Rap

Hip-Hop culture began in the mid-70s in South Bronx, N.Y. West African Griots gave birth to Rap hundreds of years ago.

Griots were entertainers, social commentators and keepers of history; chanting their stories with rhythmic musical backgrounds from drums and other instruments.

When Africans came to the New World during the time of slave trading, they were not allowed to learn to read and write.

As the Griots did, slaves transmitted their history and traditions through their songs.

The music sang by the Black Slaves in the fields carried hidden messages and double meanings; expressed love, anger and humor, just as rap does today.

According to author James Haskins "A Griot's personal mastery of oral communication evolved through practice and challenge competitions." Today, verbal competitions in Battle Rap contain toasting, boasting and catchy rhyming improvisations.

[Kahuna]

57. Oh duh me. I'm like from the hood and I'm being educated..

about hip hop from you? Give it a rest.

[mark414]

62. ah sorry

didn't know that gave you a special badge

you don't' seem to know much about it regardless so i'm just doin my thing

[Kahuna]

64. It sure makes my badge more special than yours on the subject.

Talk about clueless. :eyes: And for the record, my cousin helped produce the first commercially popular rap song, Rapper's Delight, which I considered a cute novelty song at the time. Who knew?

[mark414]

65. well if that's all it takes

then i've got some friends who probably would want to talk to you

[NightTrain]

77. The more you post, the more ridiculous your "I was there" argument sounds.

My father was "there" in the 1950s, but I still knew more about the music of that era than he did. Why? Because though he loved '50s music, his experience comprised hearing it on the radio and jukeboxes, and going to see concerts. I envied my father in that regard, but he never really learned anything about the music or those who performed and promoted it beyond what he saw in self-serving press releases.

20+ years after the fact, along came his son, who developed an intense enough interest in '50s rock 'n' roll that he (I) collected thousands of recordings, read thousands of pages of scholarly research material and interviews with those who created the music, and drew parallels that never would have occurred to his (my) father.

So who was more informed about '50s rock 'n' roll? The man who was there but never researched it, or the son who wasn't there but cared enough about the subject to learn everything about it that he possibly could?

You're not the first older person I've encountered who has sneered at my generation's love of "their" music, and I doubt you'll be the last. But just because you listened to funk when it was new and believed everything you read in the African-American answer to TIGER BEAT, it doesn't mean you're an expert on the music. So why don't YOU give it a rest?

[NightTrain]

58. You're kidding, right?

"Why in my day, nobody would dare think of copying someone else's style."

Since time immemorial, African-American singers and musicians have "borrowed" from each other's songs and styles. Why do you think so many of the blues recordings of the 1920s-1950s have no writer's credit? Because those artists perpetually absorbed each other's music into their pantheon! And it wasn't until decades later that the practice was somehow considered "wrong."

So when the rappers of today "sample" an existing recording or incoirporate another artist's style into their music, they're simply following a tradition of African-American popular music that has been going on for the better part of a century.

"I was there," you say. So what? I may have just been a kid during the funk era, but at least I've done my homework!

[Kahuna]

63. Please stop it. When I said, "my day" I meant, "my day." Not someone

else's day. :eyes: And FYI, doo wap wasn't, "my day." :eyes:

[mark414]

59. i should also mention

that if you think every emcee or dj all follow the same style and format then you are more clueless than i had previously imagined.

if that's your only beef then you'd have to just about hate every genre.

it's it's own genre because it has a similar sound yes

but all jazz has similar components that make it jazz music

rock music has similar components that make it rock music

funk music has similar components that make it funk music

and so on

and so on

and so on...

pretty weak, and ignorant argument IMHO

[NightTrain]

53. All I'm saying is, to this day there are people who call funk...

...and I'm quoting, "unmelodic crap." I've encountered them in Usenet groups and on message boards. They justify their hatred of most black music by saying, "Melody is always superior to rhythm." And while you may have grown up on funk, your remarks nonetheless reminded me of those people.

[Kahuna]

60. Well, you want to know something? I've never heard that. Never..

But if that's what they think, they're entitled to their opinion. :shrug: I've always understood that funk might be a little to percussion heavy to suit different music tastes. It never offended me.

[NightTrain]

51. Where was melody considered important? In Europe?

Well, I've got news for ya. Rap, and black music in general, doesn't find its roots in Europe or in any other part of the world dominated by melody-loving whites: its roots are in Africa, where rhythm has for centuries been the dominant part of music. If you don't believe me, track down the LP I have of Mandingo Griot recordings of the early 20th century. It's rhythmic as hell and it sure as fuck qualifies as music!

[jmm]

30. Anything I won't listen to isn't music

All music is suppose to appeal to my taste and sensibility so if I don't like it it must be trash right?

[NightTrain]

44. That pretty well sums it up!

:yourock:

[mark414]

46. ha

yeah!

[DU GrovelBot]

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[SideshowScott]

41. I don't hate Rap, I just think that todays Rap sucks

I would agree with you if you were talking about early PE, Slick Rick, N.W.A, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Wutang but geeze louise todays rap is Gawd Horrible..Its like the late 50's when a bunch of talentless hacks were getting on the rock and roll bandwagon when they were raging WITH the Machine. Todays rap is nothing more than how cock rock was in the 80's. ( Warrent= Ludacris? You betcha! ) Its not music its Karaoke to a oversampled Beat now. And Rap is not NOWHERE near early rock as far as the opposition.( Perhaps in the 80's ).Rap Radio Stations Dominate most markets, Most of the music on MTV and MTV2 is Rap, All record stores carry and sell Rap CDs, I would not exactly call that oppressed. Rant over. Hey Rap is here to stay and I can accept that I just wont have my car sounding like a broken air conditioner and pissing off my neighbors with thuding Bass. I will say one thing for Rap it made me listen to Jazz alot more when people could play music with real instruments. When they have sheet music for a turntable i may change my tune..No pun inteded

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. No, I don't think so.

Similar, maybe, but not enough to say they are the "heirs" of the rock-haters.

IMO.

Seems to me that much of the rock hating was moralistic in tone, not aesthetic (though there certainly was some aesthetic bashing). The rap hating is mostly aesthetic, not moralistic (though there is some moralistic bashing).

As I see it, anyway.

[leftofthedial]

72. bullshit

rap and sampling technology have created a new popular music and cultural paradigm, criticism of which is not the same as "rock hating."

the birth of rock and roll was fusion; its possibilities are still being explored.

The current urban pop milieu is cannibalism; the possibilities are dwindling.

Does this mean all rap is bad? Of course not.

[Ron Green]

73. I'm thinking that EVERY genre, since the beginning of popular music,

(and maybe since the beginning of all music), has had its "cutting edge" and its flowering of art and craft, along with its popularization which was a watered-down offering to the masses, easily digested and therefore commercially viable. Hip-hop or rap, of which I'm not knowledgeable, seems to have a real core of quality and innovation which you don't hear on the radio or find on the shelves at Wal-Mart. Likewise, the innovators of rock and roll, many of whom were African-American, were quickly copied and watered down for mass consumption, just as the great jazz that evolved during the Swing Era was popularized for dancers, and later for fans of star vocalists.

My point here is that popularity is inversely proportional to quality. The mass of people don't understand the subtlety of good art, but they will buy what is watered down and marketed to them. The Beatles were popular not because of their songwriting and recording skills (which have mostly stood the test of time), but because they were the "next big thing" in the middle 60's. Kurt Cobain had something to say with Nirvana, but it was quickly subsumed by the popularity thrust upon him. Artie Shaw quit the business back in the 1940's because he realized that his art could not flourish in the craving of a public for something familiar rather than something artistically challenging.

For my own part, I want to learn more about what is valid and valuable in Hip-hop, and open myself up to its nuance and artistic vitality, wherever that may be. Thanks if someone will give me some names of places to start.

[mr blur]

74. I think that rap is just as much of an art

as rock music, jazz, folk music, chamber music, whatever... There are a lot of people for whom it is meaningful and vital and important. I'm just not one of them, but who cares? I don't hear that much of it because I never listen to the radio and my kids all listen to guitar music, as do I. But what I've heard just seem so tediously repetitive and dull that I couldn't be bothered to seek out more. Same with techno stuff. So what? That doesn't mean that rap has no value, just that I can't see/hear it. My loss, possibly.

[HughBeaumont]

75. It's music, but

much of it made after The Chronic is just terrible to these ears. Listening to it now (you can't help but not, since that's all anyone plays if they ARE playing a video), it's no small wonder it completely fell out of favor with me around 1993.

[ZombieNixon]

76. Personally, rap doesn't do much for me...

that being said, I don't hate rap. I find most of today's rap displeasing to my own ears, but I quite like some early rap, 'specially from the 80s. For the most part, tho', I'm quite indifferent to rap as a whole.

Now, what I do hate: the little WASP preppy kids who think they're all bad ass just b/c they listen to gangsta rap and wear their pants down around their ankles. GRRR!

[NightTrain]

78. Why do I waste my time arguing with these people?

It's like arguing with a religious fundamentalist or with a right-wing Bush-lover. Any informed opinion, let alone fact, that doesn't conform to their preconceptions they immediately dismiss as "irrelevant." Christ, how pathetic....

[leftchick]

79. Locking at OP's request...

..

[DrWeird]

80. More like the Jazz haters.

Who fell in love with Jazz when Benny Goodman came along.

Plenty of Rock n' Roll haters still hated it even after white kids started doing it.

[JI7]

81. i don't "hate" rap, i'm just not into it

same with heavy metal.