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Am I the only person left who hates baseball because of the '94 strike?

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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:05 PM
Original message
Am I the only person left who hates baseball because of the '94 strike?
I have the memory of an elephant, and it still pisses me off. I wrote off baseball during that strike. A bunch of pampered millionaires whined like the goddamn babies they are and got what they wanted after proving to everyone with eyes to see that it was ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Fuck the fans. Fuck the cities. Give us the money.

I couldn't give a flying fuck who's going to the Series.

Fuck'em, I say
Fuck'em all
The long and the short and the tall
Fuck baseball
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Girlfriday Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'll second that!
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Brucey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes and no.
I hate what sports has become... even college sports. Yet, baseball is one of the least offensive.
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LearnedHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nope. I know several other diehards...
...but I'm just WEAK! I can't help it. Baseball still looks like all the good things I like about America. I'm a sucker.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nope, I do not like baseball anymore for the very same reason. I
wanted to see the replacement players. I enjoyed watching them during the pre season, and then the stupid "real" players come back. That was the last time I watched a game and I don't allow it in my house. I wasn't swayed by the fake (in my opinion) home run race either. Grrrrrr. Don't get me started. Baseball=phoooey (in my opinion)
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well those millionaires called off the game and in the meantime
negotiated far better rights for the guys that worked their ass off to make it to the big leagues and got injured and will never stand a chance of becoming millionaires off the game and the guys that never made millions but worked many many more games than do most sports.

They also reminded the public that the owners like to claim it's a business when they want to hoard the money but they claim it's ENTERTAINMENT when they don't want to be accused of violating the Sherman Anti-Trust act (remember that?)

So NO...I ALWAYS support the right of labor to organize.

IF they are ENTERTAINMENT, then pay them commensurate with entertainment. If not..it is their right to strike.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I don't begrudge them their right to strike
And I am sympathetic to the many who don't make millions, but these people start out at how much? $300,000 a year? Admittedly, I don't recall what the minimum was back in '94, but it was a sum that would tempt a good man to murder.
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Ohio Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. That's what I was going to say, for the most part.
Why should the owners make all the money without the people that actually put asses in the seats are the players? As for players' salaries, if the money isn't there, then how do owners pay them? The money's there, and the players have every right to organize and take other actions to get at it. After all, without players, there is no baseball.

I don't here anybody crying when an actor makes $15 million for a movie that ends up sucking. One would think that the people that were pissed about the baseball strike would raise holy hell demanding that the billionare producets get some of their money back.

If you aren't pro-union, then I don't know why you post here.
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CarlBallard Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Totally
I agree with what you have to say. I mean really one of the strongest unions in the country, shouldn't we DUers have a bit more sympathy?

I would just add that it's a great game. I mean one of the most storied matchups in history in Boston/New York. Half the teams still left haven't won since the second decade of the 20th century. Fun fun fun.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. amen
seems people are pro-union unless the union consists of rich guys vs even richer guys.
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Rich Hunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Absolutely right
Funny how many working people don't understand this basic principle.

People need to get over their envy of the players' salaries. If the players are making millions, the owners are making zillions.
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chiburb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
40. Best post on the thread...
Marvin Miller should be enshrined in the Hall of Fame for his work for the players.
On a side note, I've often thought that people who swore off baseball because of that strike remind me of a spouse who's caught the SO cheating. The reaction seems to be "throw the bum/slut out" rather than "we can work this out" or "it'll take me awhile to forgive, but I'll never forget". To each his/her own, but strident rigidity scares me (unless directed at PNACers or the Bush regime!)...
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oxycontinrush Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hope you aren't a hockey fan?
Edited on Mon Oct-06-03 11:13 PM by oxycontinrush
Next yeur's NHL lockout/strike could go for a couple of years.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. You are not alone
That's the last time that I watched MLB. I won't go back.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. What about the 1972 strike? the 1980 strike? the 1981 strike? ...
Edited on Mon Oct-06-03 11:16 PM by TahitiNut
... the 1985 strike?

For me, it was "three strikes and you're out". I strongly support labor unions ... but is baseball really 'labor'? It was good (imho) they struck down the reserve clause in the 70's and the 1972 strike was the most legitimate of the bunch. The system itself stinks. The owners have an oligopoly and are exempt from Sherman. At the same time the taxpayers and fans get hosed in order to build 'factories' (the place where they do business - stadiums) that most often displace residences and small businesses, using 'eminent domain' powers. It stinks.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Excellent points
Those strikes are before my time. Exempt from antitrust laws? Gee, how American.
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. interesting point
BUT municipalities always support the construction of facilities for business. go read the article on Carrier leaving Syracuse. the only reason the company was there in the first place was the city paid Mr. Carrier $250,000 to locate there. most places will give tax breaks and such to almost any business that will move there. and you can complain bout pricing of the game, but if it wasn't sustainable, teams wouldn't be doing it. why should an individual not be allowed to sell his talents to the highest bidder? and why shouldn't a company be able to sell it's product at the highest cost the market will bear? if you don't feel that the product is worth your money or time, you are certainly welcome to take your resources elsewhere. of course, baseball makes a ton of cash, overall, so apparently, the market can bear the load. of FOX didn't think the playoffs are worth airing, they wouldn't pay for them (or won't renew their contract when it's up) as long as people are free to pay, and do so, then I have no problem at all. I wouldn't think a light hitting second baseman is worth 2 mil a year, but someone obviously does. and they are free to pay him that.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. I can't follow it like I used to since the strike
but I still am interested in the playoffs and series, sort of.

Cop out?

Yeah, one of my few. But I don't watch the games on TV... I only listen on radio. At least I can do something else then.
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Wolfman 11 Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. no, I don't like it b/c it is boring as hell.
I understand it, played it for several years as a kid, but just cannot watch it on TV. And I have a pretty good attention span.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. I still watch the postseason, but that's about it.
I'm still getting over the 1981 strike. I was living in Houston at the time, and I'll tell you that there's not much to do in Houston in the heat of summer when school's out.

I came back to the game slowly over the next several years, but it just wasn't the same. In college, I started getting into it again, but 1994 was the last straw for me being a baseball fan.

I'll watch the playoffs, but I'm not going to watch the season unless Bud Selig calls me up personally to tell me that such things as the All-Star Game, and the World Series, will be played to their finishes.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. P.S. Baseball as business and a book recommendation.
I did manage to put the whole thing into historical perspective by reading Harold Seymour's "Baseball: the early years". It basically showed the history of baseball to be in large part the history of the business of baseball. It made me feel better about some of the stuff, but I've switched my loyalty to football, which is a game about people playing a game.
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. i'm with you
Strike. public financing their fucking playgrounds. ZTHE MONOPOLY. not gonna watch em till the monopoly is gone.
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TlalocW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-06-03 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. No
I hate baseball because it's an extremely dull sport dominated by a bunch of crybaby millionaires... Of course, most sports have the crybaby millionaires.

TlalocW
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Arbustosux Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
19. Me too!
Haven't watched a game since the last strike. Good thing too, as I was a Detroit Tigers fan!!
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. Whatever.
One can come up with an excuse for hating anything, if one tries hard enough. The game is still the game, and that has nothing to do with the strike or with Bud Selig or the rest of it. It's still a great game. Period.
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bookman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
21. Baseball is best
That was just a case of the millionares vs. the billionares.

I can't stand sports with salary caps. You wind up rooting for the uniforms.

I live in the Houston market and the team owner sucks. Not willing to field a competative team. It was better when there were fewer teams. Then the Major leagues were the major leagues.

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JackSwift Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. Screw anti- unionists
screw'em I say
Screw'em all
The hypocritcal, the Limpballed and small
Screw union busters


So one union in the country has the "owners" by the balls and a supposed Democrat switches sides? And what the hell do owners do to deserve to take any of the money from the million the talented players make? Do they invest capital? Nooooooo. Did they invent something? Nooooooooo. Are they at high risk? Nooooooooooo. Do they preserve the bizarre legally allowed monoploy? Nooooo (well I suppose yes).


I wish generalized ill on anti-unionists of any strip up to and including the cessation of biological functions but not beyond a point in violation of DU rules.

Go unions! Go MLB Players Union, thanks for showing s*** eating scum how its done. Thank you for showing that a union can deliver mucho moola for its members.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Both sides are at fault.
I am strongly against the MLB player's union. They extort every last penny out of the owners knowing full well the cost gets passed on to the fan. They demand ridiculous increases in pay, even while the system they say is "working" is destroying any semblance of parity in the sport.
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mac56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. You rock, JackSwift!
Great post.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
33. OK. Calm Down!
Geez, that can't be good for your blood pressure. The only caveat i would add, however, is that the players' union isn't really a union. It's an organization of independent contractors. If there were a consortium of electrical contractors who were trying to shaft the rank and file electricians, you would have issues with these independent contractors trying to break a union.

In the baseball thing, this independent contractors consortium is just a slightly less rich group, compared to the owners.

I think in all major sports, the players and owners should conduct themselves as a partnership. They all have a huge, and essentially equal stake, in seeing the long term success of the whole.

I just have a problem seeing the MLBPA as a union.
The Professor
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
23. Are you mad? That marvelous union strike was baseball's finest hour
I loathe the sport and all its inactivity, but followed the '81 and '94 strikes extensively. The last baseball games I attended were just a few days pre-strike '94 in Toronto, to submit a letter of support to the players and gauge the attitude of the fans at Skydome.

I have several college friends who majored in sports administration at USC and went to work for professional sports franchises. The stories they have told me regarding financial abuse and coverups by owners and management are beyond belief. I support sports employees and unions 100%.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
24. It's a love-hate thing with me.
I still love it because I love baseball as a sport, but it definitely has been harder for me to care. Even now, with so many great games in the playoffs, I just don't care. I don't even think I'd care if any of the teams I normally cared about made it.

For me, it's not so much the strike in particular as it is the continued separation of the haves and have-nots. The Yankees and Boston are full of players pilfered from other teams and kept in their cities due to huge contracts. Even the underdog Cubs have the 10th highest payroll in baseball.

Even more than that, though, is the ridiculous demands put on fans. The extortion for new stadiums, higher ticket and concession prices..baseball is broken and it pains me to admit it.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. Not to mention how greedy sports people are...
But Baseball is just boring. Sorry to tell you. I like going to a live game every once in a while...and It was exciting when I got to sit in the luxury box at Yankee stadium just 10 feet from George STeinbrenner, but that about covers my like of baseball.
Duckie
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Kamika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
27. i dont know
I hate baseball because its slow, boring and just stupid
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toddzilla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. best thing about baseball..
you can always watch the grass grow in the outfield when the game gets too boring..

and screw the "union" baseball players..


all you people backing them up have lost sight of what a union is for.


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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
31. they are still a bunch of pampered millionaires
whose biggest talent is rooking people into watching them
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
32. Amen
I've gone to a couple of games since then. However I don't listen to baseball on the radio or watch it on tv, includinng the playoffs and the World Series. The greed of the players and owners totally turned me off. The only sports I watch is the occasional NHL playoff game.
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pmbryant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
35. Disappointing attitude
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 10:20 AM by pmbryant
The 1994 strike came about because the baseball owners colluded to screw baseball players out of their fair share of the profits that baseball generates.

It was the culmination of a fight that had gone on for years, and was a last chance, desperate maneuver: forcing the owners to choose between losing the profitable post-season and continuing on their course of destructiveness. The owners made their choice and the post-season was lost. It was a horrible year for baseball fans, but the blame lies with the owners, not the players.

To see such vehement anti-union attitudes here at DU is extremely disappointing to me.

Anyway, this was 9 years ago! The vast majority of players in the league now had nothing to do with the 1994 strike, and to hold grudges against them because of it is a bit childish, I think.

--Peter

EDIT: Changed my subject line, because I realized the anti-union attitude was not quite as prevalent in this thread as it first appeared. It is still more prevalent than I would like, though.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Anytime I am in a thread, Peter
You should know there will be at LEAST ONE pro-union post :D
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pmbryant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Your post was great
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 10:47 AM by pmbryant
I'm sorry I missed it on my first reading!

EDIT: A few other excellent posts in this thread as well.

--Peter
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
36. Is that you,
Rodney? :)

You sound suspiciously like someone I know who said "adios" to baseball after that strike.

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