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Could Fox's "24" be a propaganda tool?

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Darknyte7 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 12:55 PM
Original message
Could Fox's "24" be a propaganda tool?
Edited on Tue Jan-11-05 01:03 PM by Darknyte7
Don't get me wrong, I've been watching the show since its first season, and I enjoy it. However as I was watching it last night, I couldn't help but think about the fact that throughout the show, Jack Bauer and others are constantly breaking laws. Of course there's always some exigent circumstance involved, but last night for instance, they were straight up torturing this guy (the Sec. of Defense's son)at CTU through sensory perception impairment.

Under the administrations previous policy, (the one they just remanded about 2 weeks ago) the technique that they were using would not qualify as torture, as it did not cause extreme pain or organ failure, but that sh*t sure as hell looked like torture to me.

I just wonder if this show serves as a a propaganda tool for the right, in showing viewers potential scenarios and how our "Jack Bauer's" might have to bend a rule or two in order to save millions of people.

Just a thought...
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well It's FOX
Think about it, you make a show where the bad guys are being tortured to "save lives", then you have the "new division" of your network start doing some spin, not immediately, but down the line, like right after Rupert owns all of FOX Network.

Questions like "was it really torture?", "how many American military personnel were saved?", you get the point.

Could this a tin foil hat moment, perhaps, but some tin foil hat moments here have become fact haven't they?
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. I thought the same thing last nite........
Terrorist are everywhere!
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wondered the same thing
the hero Jack was pro-torture, and his villain boss was anti-torture.

But like you, I enjoy the show too...
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Jack Bauer is a very sympathetic character who does outrageous things
all the time. He's the good guy, and you find yourself rooting for the good guy even when he is doing terrible, lawless, absurd things because he is ultimately doing it to save the world or someone very important- and he acts as he does because there is no other way to get things done.

And that's the problem. There is another way to get things done without lying, killing, breaking laws, smacking people around, and torturing them 99.9% of the time. The premise is a lie in that sense. It goes along with the idea that we have to all surrender our rights and lower our standards to deal with terrorists. We have to deprive people of their dignity and right to fair treatment in order to ensure our own freedom... nothing could be further from the truth.

I really enjoy the show, though- its impossible to turn off once you start watching it.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. There are a couple other threads about this. I feel somewhat robbed.
24 used to be a show about a black Democratic president dealing with terrorism with fairly sensible policies.

Now it has suddenly become freeptastic, with middle class muslim families plotting the destruction of the USA, and dirty, hairy, hippie sons spewing whiny Michael Moore sympathies, or the CTU Director's schizophrenic daughter Maya, who doesn't like her medication because it makes her feel "numb."

And then there's the torture you mentioned.

It's completely depressing.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. and the Rambo-like sec. of defense
middle-aged William Devane shooting his way out of his terrorist captivity, a la Jessica Lynch.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I kept thinking "What would Rummie do?"
GET ME CONDI!
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I didn't see all of the first hour so maybe I missed something -
but the scene when the mother handed a gun to her son to kill his girlfriend was really chilling. I kept thinking of some other shows where the villain Arab has turned out to be the good guy in the end- and I don't think that's going to happen here. So the Anti-muslim conditioning is definitly a part of it.

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Zing Zing Zingbah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. The son tried to save his girlfriend, though.
His mother poisoned her. I think something is going to happen with that Muslim kid. I think he's either going to runaway and/or rat out his parents, or kill them. He seems to not have the same beliefs as his parents, because if he did he would not have had an American girlfriend. I'm really interested to see that happens with this character. He seems to be an obedient son (mostly out of fear of his own parents), but I think he's got a lot of pent up animosity toward his parents. I think this character will do something to that will be contrary to villain Arab stereotype that you speak of.
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petron Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. that's creepy you say that...
...My wife and I own the first 3 seasons on DVD and we love having "24" marathons on cold wintry nights!

But, I just can't get it out of my mind that these shows are a means of conditioning the general public.

Season 3 is especially unnerving because of the way the "federal agents" act during a crisis. Not to spoil the plot but in this season the bad guys have a mutated killer virus and they try to wreak havoc on LA with it. And the "good guys" are the federal agents who manipulate the public to no ends to contain this deadly virus, including killing innocents, imprisoning civilians, and lying about certain danger.

The what's disturbing is how completely powerful Jack Bauer and co act and how they behave with such extreme authority over all the civilians.

I kinda get the feeling that Fox is showing us this stuff so when and or if something bad happens (ie terra attack) they have already conditioned the "viewing audience" to go along with their authority.

Just my thoughts.
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Oh, for pete's sake
It's a TELEVISION SHOW....when the director yells "cut," the actors take off their blood packs, grab coffees and head back to their trailers. It's entertainment, not government intelligence training.
Next thing you'll be telling me that "Gilligan's Island" is conditioning for the giant tsunami that'll hit the U.S. in the spring...
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. It's worth discussing
that's for sure.
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Darknyte7 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. "Oh please...
Now who's being naive Kay?"

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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Are you implying I'm naive,
because I don't see some deep, dark conspiracy in everything around me?
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Darknyte7 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. I'm saying...
that I realize that it's a television show, but I don't put it past Fox to intigrate some propoganda into it's programming.

The tease for the 10 o'clock news last night that they always run during a commircial break in the second hour teased two terrorism related stories.

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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. That's your affiliate-
Mine ran a piece about a cat rescued from a house fire- hardly a tie-in to the events on a fictional TV series.
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. Conspiracy implies a few people.
You live in the most Islamophobic country in the world. A sizable majority of Americans have no problem curtailing constitutionally protect rights- for muslims. I understand it takes some skill to recognize propaganda when it's being directed at you, and not when it's in a history book. But not that much.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=ignorance
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liberalpress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Forget it, Beast..
I tried stopping this three threads ago. Some of my DU friends will find a conspiracy whether there is one or not.

I dunno, show up for work, things get out of control, and suddenly you have a very long day on your hands. It's like I have a twin.
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. OK, so how do you explain
The Threat Matrix?
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. What???
:shrug:
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ThorsHammer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Didn't that show get cancelled?
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Darknyte7 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Yes...
and quickly.
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Yes.
Even Leifenstein couldn't have helped that junker.
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petron Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Believe what you want
Don't get me wrong, I love the show for the fiction that it is but something in the back of my mind tells me to pay attention on more then one level.

If you believe that all popular media culture is harmless and is not being used as a propaganda tool by the ruling classes, I'd say you are wrong. ;)
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. THANK YOU!
I was wondering when someone would say this.

This is the first season I've watched the show, and I'm enjoying it. The acting is first-rate.

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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. That's why I stopped watching it, first season. And Lost.
Boy, the premiere of Lost was great. Then it turns out that the one muslim guy on TV is former Iraqi Republican Gaurd and an experienced torturer.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. But he will prove to be a "good guy" don't you think?
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Oh, fuck, I don't care.
Stepin Fetchit was a good guy, but I don't watch him either.
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liberalpress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Great Googly Moogly!
Sterotypes! On Television! Yikes!
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Not on my television.
But as for lost, it was headed south anyway and fast.

The episode before the torture apology episode, had the hobbit guy dealing with his heroin addiction. After a few shakes and some sweating, he gives it up cold turkey. Yeah, that's not insulting to the audience's intelligence.

:eyes:
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Well, Locke got out of his wheelchair and walked
Jack's father is up out of the casket, the girl with asthma is ok wihtout her drugs, lots of amazing things going on...that's part of the mystery of the island.
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Jesus H. Christ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. "part of the mystery of the island"
No, part of the mystery of crap conflict resolution.
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liberalpress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. The guy on "Lost?"
IMHO he already has.
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Zing Zing Zingbah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. Lost is a good show, andthe Muslim character
appears to be a good guy.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. I think cereal boxes are tools od the administration
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liberalpress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. The biggest tool in this administration...
...is George W. Bush!
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Wat_Tyler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. No.
That would be J.A.G.
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Beware the Beast Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
27. Now, "Trading Spaces," there's a propaganda tool.
It was conceived to prepare us from the coming onslaught of ruthless designers who will invade our homes and glue hay to our walls! :scared:
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Frangible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. Um yeah, that's every show involving LEO
"I couldn't help but think about the fact that throughout the show, Jack Bauer and others are constantly breaking laws"

Yes... that's EVERY cop show. EVERY ONE involves a "rogue cop" who is breaking the rules and getting reprimanded... but it's all good, because it all works out in the end and they're doing "the right thing".

It's the same story told thousands of times, over and over, with a change of names and setting.

Completely unimaginative.
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