Can a pro-life person eat a hamburger?

[RPM]

If they believe that all life is holy - can he or she enjoy a juicy cheeseburger?

Or a salad for that matter?

No worries here - I am pro-choice and pro-cheeseburger; Strongly pro-cheeseburger

[ComerPerro]

1. No, because God made man superior to all other animals

"and God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

[RPM]

3. but what if that person said specifically

"all life is holy and sacred" (which that person did by the way).

Sounds alot to me like "all animals are equal, some are more equal than others"

[Guarionex]

11. guys, I would refer to George Carlin

Carlin did a real good bit in his comedy about Abortion, Christian Conservatives, Consistency in arguments, and the Sanctity of Life...It might be on Doin it Again, or Jammin' In NY.

He basically says that the whole concept of sanctity of life is man-made bullshit, that we get to decide selectively what is life (us) and what is not (everything we deem as bothersome, like mosquitos, fungus, or that we eat, like cows), and that the issue of when life started is moot because, while a Christian conservative believes it starts when the sperm is ejaculated and touches the egg (conception), some other person with a different life/philosophy would say that life started billions of years ago...and it's a process that keeps on going and going. There is no one definition moment about when life starts, therefore you cannot make a definite judgment on abortion.

I share his view...and he does it in such a funny way.

So, yes, burger's are fine!

[ComerPerro]

15. Well, I don't know what to tell you.

But, I think, if you asked "what about cows", then they would come back with this quote.

The reason I mentioned it is because most "pro-life" people I have met are fundies who believe the Bible literally.

[flvegan]

17. "Dominion"

Means stewardship, not mastery to destroy and torture as we deem fit.

[ComerPerro]

19. I am not saying it does

But, someone with a fundie mentality would reply with what I said 9 times out of ten.

[flvegan]

20. Right, which is why I always find humor

in the way the Bible is interpreted to mean whatever the reader WANTS it to mean, in a convenient way for him/her.

Example: "Thou shalt not kill."
Convenient definition: "Unless of course it's a buncha turbanies sittin on the go-juice fer my Hummer. Then I say screw the civvies, the women, the children, the unborn children, the unborn children's unborn children. I'm George W. Bush, and I approve this message."

[RebelOne]

29. Well, I don't believe that crap.

I wouldn't eat a hamburger anyway, because I'm a vegetarian.

[whirlygigspin]

2. at least the cow is dead...but

I always worry about the salad, does it feel pain?
I also like to ask my vegetarian friends this, they never appreciate it. Hypocrites.

killing sallad is murder! say I

and those poor baby carrots! they didn't ask to be canned!

it's just so revolting

[0007]

6. PU

What stinks?

[Sporadicus]

8. The Most 'Pure' Method of Obtaining Nutrition Without Causing Harm

seems (to me, anyway) to be a diet consisting entirely of fruit. Plants evolved the mechanism of surrounding their seeds with tasty bits so that animals would be enticed to eat them, thereby dispersing their progeny. I believe that, if we could communicate with any plant, they would prefer that we take their fruits, since they're out there for the taking anyway.

[RPM]

10. that seems philosophically consistent...

Eggs on the other hand - that could be a chicken life!!!!

[Sporadicus]

12. Commercial Eggs are Not Fertilized

so, IMO, it is no more unethical to eat an egg than a mammal's placenta. Lovely thought for your Sunday morning brunch, eh?

[flvegan]

21. Commercial eggs are amongst the cruelest of harvests

Egg-laying hens are probably the single most inhumanely treated animal in the food industry.

[Sporadicus]

22. How True

I should have included those facts in my remark about eggs.

[yewberry]

9. Tell you why

We've heard that (spurious, pseudo-humorous) remark from dozens of people by the time we've been veg*ns for a month.

And, no, my shoes are not made of leather.

}(

[Gothic Sponge]

4. A true pro-life person would be a vegetarian.

I'm a veggie, but pro-choice.

[RPM]

5. Are veggies not alive when they are in the ground?

Do they not die when picked from the sustaining soil?

[bloodyjack]

18. do you honestly give a fuck about the welfare of a carrot?

or are you just being CUTE

[name not needed]

26. A real pro life person wouldn't eat veggies either!

Lentils feel pain too! :P

[Deja Q]

7. Pro-human-life. I don't mind eating bits of succulent dead animals but I

am pro-human-life.

[flvegan]

23. Just out of pure wonderment

Why? Serious question, why pro-human life but not animal life? Where is the line drawn as to what you regard as having any importance whatsoever on this planet? Why isn't all life sacred?

[forgethell]

25. When an animal can

discuss philosophy with me, or literature, or music, or even just bull-shit like we're doing here, then I will stop eating them, at least that particular species.

[Gothic Sponge]

28. By your logic, i guess it's okay to eat retarded people?

[forgethell]

31. Don't you think that

that is simplistic thinking? I can bullshit with a retarded person. And even if I couldn't, they are still members of a species that I can do that with. Learn to understand what people are saying.

[flvegan]

30. So the value of "life" is simply

That which you, personally, give that being (or allow that being to have) based on your own opinion/importance.

Interesting.

[forgethell]

33. What is YOUR definition of the value

of life? Where do YOU draw the line? What should I base my decision on?

In a world of no absolute rights or wrongs, a world where evil does not exist, how do Imake the decision, other than what I think, or rather feel?

Hey, I'm willing to learn, but remember, your opinion is no more valuable than mine, unless you ccan base it on something other than opinion as to right and wrong.

[flvegan]

36. Didn't answer the question, but

I'll say this...
I believe that all life is sacred, and do as little harm as I possibly can. I draw the line, so to speak, at parasites, or those that seek to do me harm. Otherwise, I do what I can to not harm other living beings. Yes, impossible. I have cow parts in my car tires, etc. However, I live a vegan lifestyle, and I'm comfortable with that.

As you asked, how do you make the decision, other than what you think or feel? I can't answer how someone else could/should/would make a decision, nor would I ever force someone to make that decision.

My opinion isn't any more valuable than anyone else's, yes. As to right and wrong, in the scenario posed herein, opinion has no real place. Fact is, animals suffer. They feel pain. They enjoy the life they have, the time on this earth. Right V. Wrong here would be the part I play in making them suffer, which I do my best not to, by not eating them. I would suggest that all living creatures have an intrinsic right to not suffer. It is wrong to make them suffer. Once that's accepted, right and wrong becomes pretty clear.

Lastly, I certainly wouldn't say that vegetarians/vegans are right and those that eat meat are wrong. You can't really, IMO, accuse someone of being wrong, when they don't know all the facts. Mistaken or misled, maybe.

[forgethell]

38. You didn't ask a question,

you made a statement. However, as I read between the lines I'll try to answer what I think your question is as well as I can.

I believe that we are animals like any others in certain regards. We have to eat, to sleep, to drink. We breed. We die. They eat each other, some of them ate us in evolutionary history. And still would, given the opportunity. For instance, I read somewhere that leopards are our natural predator, and kill more people every year than any other wild animal. I don't have a link and can't vouch for the accuracy of the statement.

But man has a moral dimension. Whether it is because we are made in the image of God, or simply a quirk of evolutionary chance, I am not prepared to say at this time. But you cannot deny that it exists, or we would not be having this discussion. For instance, you suggest that all creatures have a right not to suffer. Where did that idea come from? Certainly no animal holds it. And without a moral base of some kind to judge from, well there is not "right or wrong". There is just "the way things are".

While vegetarians have existed for many centuries, certainly vegetarianism has never had the following that is does today. Not in the West, anyway. And, while I could certainly be wrong, here, I think that a lot of it has to do with the various meat substitutes that have been developed from soy. Why should these soy product be shaped into hamburger or sausage, and flavored like meat?

Finally, again I am no expert, but what I have read tends to indicate that man's digestive tract and dentition show that he was evolved to eat meat.

Therefore, I feel perfectly justified in eating steak, burger, chops. I respect your right not to want to eat meat, for whatever reason. I just don't think vegetarianism is a more moral position than eating meat. I don't for example, hunt, but I have no objections to those who do, so long as they use the meat, or at least give it to someone who will. Deer or prey animals.

But just to "throw you a bone", so to speak, philosophically, I have a lot of trouble with the factory farm methods used today, which I do consider needlessly cruel.

MERRY CHRISTMAS:)

[RPM]

27. that was my point - in a round about way....

when you can eat a burger, life is no longer simply sacred or holy - it is now a compromised argument as some life is more important than other life.

It reminds me of someone who would never be a prostitute, but would sleep with someone for $1M - they are a whore who is dickering over price.

[forgethell]

13. I think they mean

'human' life. 'Innocent' human life at that. If they have no problem with capital punishment, why would a hamburger bother them.

"pro-life", like "pro-choice" is a short-hand. Don't fall into a bumper sticker mentality.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

[RPM]

16. "If they believe that all life is holy"

all here would have to include animals, no?

not bumper-sticker mentality - smart-ass mentality }(

[forgethell]

24. Didn't I Just say that

they don't consider all life sacred? No it doesn't ahve to include animals. Maybe you should listen to what they actually say instead of setting up straw men and indulging in a 'smart-ass' mentality. In my experience, if you know what your opponent is actually saying, you have a much better chance of successfully debating an issue with him, and perhaps, if not changing his mind, at least broadening his horizons a bit.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

14. The more important question is can they support a war in which it's

clearly known that thousands of innocents will be killed and maimed. They can and apparently do. Not without being outrageous hypocrites though.

[Kellanved]

32. Maybe - if the Hamburger gives his consent.

:spank:

[Placebo]

34. Humans aren't ANIMALS!

As long as you don't kill humans, you can kill and eat all the other animals you like.

[billyskank]

35. No, they shouldn't really

a life is a life. Doesn't matter how many legs it has.

[Kire]

37. what about eggs and caviar?