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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:45 PM
Original message
Is it just me or does it seem that the disruptor-types rose humongously...
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 04:51 PM by seventhson
at DU with the entrance of Clark into the race???

I posted this here at the Lounge because I know it will get flamed -- but it is a serious question.

As some of you already know I came to Dean reluctantly only after it became clear to me that Gore was out.

But I am a political historian of sorts and blackops is the keystone of the BFEE empire. It would not surprise me at all if Clark is the BFEE alternative to the tanking and unwinnable Kerry.

And so - like my criticisms of kerry and his ties to Bush via the order of skull and bones (which I take very seriously altho many here are not familiar enough with the history to agree with me) I am serious that this Clark candidacy is an attempt by the military industrial fascists to hold the White House or to replace the winning Dem after another "coup" like Wellstone/JFK with ANOTHER right wing democrat who will prolong wars and make the world safe for wall street greed.

But it is the seeming teeming arrival of disruptive Clarkers that really has me wondering.

Is DU being invaded by Freepers in Clark clothing???

Anyone else feel this way?

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know that it was Clark's candidacy
I think what's set them off is the decline in Chimpy's perceived popularity. They're teetering on the brink of a massive crash-and-burn, and one of the places we're privileged to watch their meltdown is here at DU.

Their pathetic flailings amuse me.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes everything you fear is true and is going to get you
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. going to get me WHAT???
a purple heart?

Banned???

a cookie?

Clark as president/Kerry as VP and me a berth at Guantanamo???
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. No it is just generically going to get you
and even if it doesn't get you it doesn't mean it's not out to get you.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thanks. Like I NEEDED to be reminded!!!
I KNEW you would take the time to show you care about bugging me with the standard insults perfected to inanity by the BFEE.

I remember well my first experiences when I started posting about the Bush-Nazi connections were posts insulting me JUST LIKE YOURS
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Did you want me to give you a medal for posting wild eyed speculative crap
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 04:59 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
I never once challenged any Bush Nazi connections as the history of Prescott Bush was well documented.

When you then extrapolated that out to Kerry and claimed there was a connection based on nothing but conjecture...yes I challenged you and to date you have never proven it.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. YOU have a lot of room to talk!
You were one of the first ones out there stirring shit!

:eyes:
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I go after those who I believe are helping the BFEE
That is not to say I am always right -- but the Clark posters (a lot of them) are newbies and are really being kinda nasty towards some of those I respect a lot in this race.

I began my tenure here bellowing about the Gore bashers for Kerry.

But I am talking about a recent trend in the past few days since Clark announced.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. And like I said - YOU have no room to talk as one of the worst offenders
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_NorCal_D_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Clark
is a 'military industrial fascist'?
This seems like an awfully disruptive statement seventhson...

:eyes:
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Snow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Agree, there does seem to have been
a lot of bickering here since Clark announced. I put it down to zealous supporters who yell to make a point. I agree with your concerns about Kerry's skull & bones membership - that worries me a lot, too. However, there's two points I don't understand....if we hypothesize that Clark is the BFEE nominee, replacing the running-out-of-gas Kerry, why would disruptors come here & make noise? Also, I guess I don't understand your scenario of " this Clark candidacy is an attempt by the military industrial fascists to hold the White House or to replace the winning Dem after another "coup" like Wellstone/JFK". Are you positing Clark in as VP, the new president (let's say it's Al Sharpton) gets the small airplane treatment, then Clark takes over from Sharpton?
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I was thinking more that Dean might fall for the Clark Hoopla
But, basically, yeah.

If Clark is VP and Kerry is NOT P (and the P is not BFEE) - then YES, the standard operating procedure of the BFEE would be to take out the top spot so their boy, be it general clark or Kerry, would be implanted in the oval office.

THAT has been the history of American politics here and abroad. If their guy is not in the top spot then they PUT him there by an overt or covert coup.

They prefer the covert kind like this scenario in 2004: Their guy gets second position and just waits either knowingly or unknowingly. (Think JFK/LBJ- or Wellstone, Allende, Diem, Mossadegh, Arbenz, Lumumba, RFK, etc - this is exactly what the Skullboyz in the military intelligence DO - so it is not too farfetched to imagine) The question is, or the problem, really, is figuring out which players work for the military industrial fascists. In this race I think there are three, more or less: Kerry, Clark and Lieberman. They may have NO insider knowledge -- but they will benefit the BFEE if they win. That is blackops for global conquest on the sly. And it is the way of the modern world - has been for centuries.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. BTW, where is your actual PROOF that Kerry is TIED to the BFEE?
Just wondering where the actual meat is beyond the wild eyed speculation and conclusionary posts.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. He uses conspiracyplanet.com as a source
maybe there, or straight from drudge or newsmax
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Once again here is the proof
He is the member of a secret order with the Bushes sworn to secrecy and loyalty to that order. That order is based on fascist and eugenicist principles and its members basically ran the CIA blackops programs of assassinations to overthrow democracies abroad and probably here, they financed Hitler, and they currently oiwn the White House. To them, Kerry is just another Skull in the line of their succession to absolute global and fascist power.

Clark, IMHO, MAY be their pawn. I am still slightly open on that question -- but I am watching carefully and the alarming attacks on Dean here seem to make my case for me that this is a planned infiltration here because this site is exceptionally influential, the media follows it, and it is a weathervane politically.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. he and how many other people?
are they all suspect as well?
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Almost all Skull members are likely operatives
But what happens is that the the personnel in the intelligence services (who use Skull to recruit covert operators for corrupt political destabilization) then utilize military insiders for whatever purposes needed to carry out their plots (under intlligence cover and with government orders).

When the government is corrupt the military becomes their tools for fascist conquest.

In Clark's case he is high enough up to assume that he was in on all the dirt in Latin America, Columbia, etc. as head of the Southern command, I believe (which may have put him in charge of Guantanomo or some of the troops there). In that position he would be an insider with the elites and intelligence as well as the gofer for politicians.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Objection, your honor! Assumes facts not in evidence.
Counsel has relied on hearsay for this charge and has provided nothing to substantiate it. I move to strike.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Kerry admits his membership in Skull and claims it is "SECRET" so he Won't
discuss it (HMPH!!!)

THAT is not hearsay. That is a fact.

BOTH Bushes are fellow members to this day. They are all three ACTIVE members.

They STILL consort secretly with each other.

Does Clark belong to skull?

No he does not.

My concerns about Clark are his military power and connections and his votes for reagan and Bush and Nixon which he admits.

He is a republican general who has sold himself as an alternative to Bush. It is laughable. He is just a BFEE replacement for Bush.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. I share your concern re S&B
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 05:53 PM by cosmicdot
I think Kerry could do the world a great service by just addressing the subject once and for all ... disavow it and Yale's continuing allowance of it ... its history and the secrecy surrounding it. Certainly wouldn't hurt to graveyard its suspicious, haunting spectre. Be done with it.

Heck, if there was actual 'proof' of anything ... many of the current players might be in jail ... we'd know who conspired to kill the Kennedys and MLK ... it certainly would help matters along and life a lot easier.

Despite all, some people just won't skip your posts when the option is there to just let it go.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. I agree, this is one of the worst influxes of disruptors we have had
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 05:12 PM by Cheswick
It it not suprising and I don't blame genuine Clark supporters. But the last few days have been rough.
I may not agree with everything you post, however I enjoy your company!
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. seventhson, please, a request
I come to the lounge to escape these kinds of threads for a few moments. I would ask you please, out of respect for those of us who would like to take a break from this for a few minutes, keep this in GD or campaigns.

Please note this has absolutly nothing to do with candidates you do or do not support. I would say the same about a thread like this in the lounge regarding any of them.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I actually came here too to get away from the noise...
and toi have a reasdonable discussion.

I figured the regulars here might be more inclined to respond and the Clarkieites might not really be tuned into the lounge yet and I could ask those who are more familiare to me and to DU.

I appreciate you sentiment however -- but is there now a lounge "Rule" that says no issues regarding new influxes of disruptors may be discussed??? I thought I could avoid a serious flamefest and really want some nontoxic feedback.

Ignore this thread if you want. Please. But let folks feedback on this okay and I will avoid topics too hot for the lounge in the future.
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Pale Blue Dot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. That's a deal nt
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 05:21 PM by Finnfan
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. How wiley...
of the BFEE to get behind a candidate who can beat Bush. It's a tactic NOBODY would expect!

Generally, they tend to support their OWN candidates. This is a secret triple-back-flip-double-cross that NOBODY saw coming.

Man, they is wiley.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Wily
But the coyote's name MAY be Wiley E. Coyote.
And I think you're speaking of double-inverted, over-and-under, reverse psychology.
Which I agree, is wily to the extreme and possibly to the nth power.
;-)
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Eeep!
Ya know, I first typed "wily" and it didn't look right.

Maybe I was thinkin' of the coyote.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. Machiavellian, actually
Trojan Horse.

Diversion.

Deep cover.

Mole.

As I said above in another post. Bush is on his way out and the BFEE needs someone to replace him.

Same thing happened with Carter in 1976. Rockefeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski knew that Ford would lose so they recruited Carter as a "new progressive" because they could manipulate him and use him ands bide their time until they could get BUSH in office in 1980 (and keep their covert CIA ops going behind his back). Thing is Reagan (who was another of their pawns but not as intentionally evil as BUSH) was actually POPULAR with repugs so they had to tag Bush onto Reagan to win the election and then try to knock Reagan off. They didn't kill him but they rendered him totally ineefective except as a cover.

These things happen in America, folks. 40 year anniversary November 22, 2003 of the military industrial complex coup which has been with us ever since (more or less).

I suspect Clark is a part of it. The next pohase. His rise to stardom is just too damned contrived.

A year ago none of us had ever heard of him and he's never held elective office

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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. It's a Gleichschaltung. The ultimate result of the Democrats' move right
We've gone so far to the right for swing voters that it looks like we might end up with a swing candidate.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. What does that mean literally?
I like it.

And it is so true.

Is there only me and you who feel this way?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Gleichschaltung is a combination of two words
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 06:37 PM by JVS
Gleich= equal/same
Schalten= tune to, or switch as in tuning into a radio station or TV channel.
Schaltung is the noun form of schalten. Like switching is to switch

Basically it means that the organizations are being merged or that one is being set up as a subsidiary
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. FOOD FIGHT! FOOD FIGHT!
But I, the Flameroo Supernicus, KNOW how to deal with food fights.
TOAST 'EM!
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. Nice Picture of Clark in Kosovo
Is he wearing his war criminal cap???

Marley: If de cap fit, let dem wear it!!!
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Obviously...
that is not a picture of Clark, and there is no such thing as a "war criminal cap". Nor, is Clark a war criminal.

Just rebutting an obvious untruth.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. Great post!
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Really?
Jesus?

Say something...

Do You really AGREE?

If so, PLEASE tell us all why cause I feel like I am out on a slight limb here and few DUers care to support me on this.

(I think people are afraid I am wrong but their gut tells them I am right - so they keep their mouths shut. Any support would help).
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yes
It is an excellent post.

"I think people are afraid I am wrong but their gut tells them I am right - so they keep their mouths shut. Any support would help"

And you are damn right about that. I'm loathe to say anything because I expect 5,000 Clark freaks to jump all over me if I open my mouth, but I think he is just terrible for the Democratic party. Even worse than Lieberman.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Thank you. I suspect many regulars here feel the same way
I noticed that all the people who have been "sleepers" here and who have been the meanest and ugliest to me (and often Kerry supporters in the past) are all on the Clark bandwagon.

This fits the pattern.

Many many of the regulars who have been here for a long while (a year or more) avoid conflict like the plague. They support their candidates and they avoid the heate of battle.

If Clark is a BFEE freeper sleeper as I suspect then we MUST mount a challenge to this man and SPEAK OUT to stop him.

I really really think ANY of the other folks in the race would be heads and shoulders above Clark -- even Lieberman (and excepting Kerry)

I am frankly very worried that the sleepy and sheepy electorate will fall for a Clark and Kerry ticket.

And I PERSONALLY worry that Dean will get wellstoned if he picks Clark -- and probably after the inauguration. I felt the same way about Gore w/Kerry which is where this scenario first came clear to me.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Even if he isn't a sleeper he must be heavily resisted
Accepting him as a candidate is an admission that our party is unable to find leadership within its own ranks.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Truth, My Friend
If we elect a war criminal as a Dem before even, say, Gephardt, who is just kind of an inept but well meaning liberal, then we are truly f*cked.

I'd prefer my least favorite candidate Sharpton (and I remember Tawana and THAT fiasco so ineptly handled by Sharpton and I was in another civil rights scrape where he tried to opportune) to Clark.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. A disruptor is in the eye of the beholder. I mean last
November when you started with the anti-Kerry threads day after day after day, I thought you were a disruptor :eyes:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'm Locking this Thread
Reason :

Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, troll, conservative, Republican, or FReeper. Do not try to come up with cute ways of skirting around the spirit of this rule. If you think someone is a disruptor, click the "Alert" link below their post so the moderators can deal with it. Unfortunately, it has become all too common for members of this message board to label anyone with a slightly different point of view as a disruptor. We disapprove of this behavior because its intent is to stifle discussion, enforce a particular "party line," and pre-emptively label a particular point of view as inappropriate or unwelcome. This makes thoughtful and open debate virtually impossible.

Democratic Underground is a "big tent" message board which welcomes a broad range of progressive opinions. As such, you are likely to disagree strongly with many of the comments you see expressed here. Please do not take these differences of opinion personally. The simple fact that someone disagrees with you does not give you the right to lash out and break the rules of this message board. A thick skin is usually required to participate on this or any message board.

Please note that, strictly speaking, sweeping statements about entire groups of fellow progressives are not considered personal attacks. However, they are often inflammatory and counterproductive and the moderators have broad discretion to remove such posts in the interests of keeping the peace on the message board.


link to rules here :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

proud patriot
DU Moderator
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