Man family problems, need some advice.

[Sean Reynolds]

Last night my cousin and me went to the Jazz-Hornets game. On the way back we stopped and picked up his wife because they were all going out to eat after they dropped me off at home. Anyway, while on our way home we started talking about death and I brought up my brother's death 21 years ago. I said how depressed my mother was and then started talking about how I was born basically a year after his death. My cousin's wife looks at me and says that my mother probably wasn't all that depressed then (since she had me only a year after my brother's death). I was stunned that she would say this and started stumbling with my words when she hurried and shot back with the fact that she was joking.

Now a little back history here: she hasn't really made us feel welcomed. She treats my aunt (my cousin's mother) like crap and even attacks my mother in our house. So she's really on the outs with our family. So when I get home I tell my mom what she says and of course my mom is really hurt by this. In fact my mom was and still is depressed over the death of her 12 year old son and couldn't fathom why anyone would say such a thing. So she calls her sister (my cousin's mother) and tells her the story. This morning my cousin calls my mom wanting to talk to me. My mom says no and he basically rips into her saying I'm a liar and that his wife never said any of that -- when in fact she did. Then he talked to HIS mother and basically said he'd choose her (his wife) over us any day and that we were all overly sensitive.

Needless to say it's basically World War III right now and I feel like shit for starting it all. On the one hand I felt I should have told my mom because my cousin's wife is always making these backhanded comments about our family. On the other hand, I hate seeing my mother and aunts hurting like they are and know that if I didn't say anything last night, it'd of never been an issue.

Should I feel guilty? My mother and aunts say I shouldn't, but I can't help but feel I not only hurt them, but I just ruined my friendship with my cousin.

:(

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

1. Can I be blunt?

Your cousin is more concerned with getting regular blow jobs than with his own personal integrity. You're not losing much of a friend.

[johnnie]

18. Maybe his cousin is sticking up for his wife.

Is that not right?

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

19. Not if it requires blatant lying about something he was there and heard

with his own two ears. And especially since she was inexcusably vicious.

[johnnie]

20. W/ all due respect

You've never been married...right?

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

22. If marriage requires that you

stand up for someone who is being Repub-level vicious about a bereaved mother and then tell total bald-faced lies about those things that you witnessed yourself, then I suppose I'll never get married.

What part are you defending -- the vicious comment about the bereaved mother, or the sort of deliberate, unambiguous lying that, if it happened under oath, would get the cousin imprisoned for years?

Edit: if I can't have an opinion on this because I'm unmarried, then you can't have an opinion on it because you've never been a bereaved mother.

[johnnie]

23. I'm not defending..

....the woman who said something as cold hearted as what she said. I am saying that his cousin is probably just trying to keep the peace in his own home and I don't think it has to do with a blowjob either. When a lot of people get married they tend to stick up for their spouse no matter what. I don't think that this situation will ever go to court nor do I think he will spend time in prison for what he has said.
You are most welcome to your opinion and I hope I wasn't implying that you weren't. I feel terrible for anyone who ever had to bury their children. My mother buried my twin brothers when I was 16 and even though they were newborns it was a terrible experience for us all.

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

24. Then you ARE defending

the lack of integrity it takes to flat-out call someone a liar and stick up for someone who would say what she said.

Integrity means more to me than whatever "peace" I have with the sort of vicious scum in my life who would say what that woman said. I wouldn't marry any of the aforementioned scum I know, either.

[Astrochimp]

2. Why on earth would you tell your mother about that?

What good could it do?

[Sean Reynolds]

13. I told her because......

Every time I'm with his wife she's attacking my mother. And I've not said ANYTHING to my mom about it. This was the final straw and I was hurt and annoyed and wanted to talk to my mother about it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

3. Your cousin is being an ass, Sean.

You did nothing wrong.

:hug:

[Wetzelbill]

4. You probably shouldn't have said it, but you shouldn't feel guilty either

She sounds like she isn't much of a person, and to tell you the truth, guys are easily led around by their balls. Your cousin is blinded by love and will fight for his woman even if she is wrong. Someday he'll understand why everybody else has trouble with her. The best you can do is be a good person and try to get along with your cousin and family as best as possible. It'll blow over after awhile, and although, you may have tense relations with your cousin and his wife, you will eventually be back to where you were before. He says he'd take her over his family, but if that ever happened he'd realize what a screwup he made pretty quickly.

[tjdee]

5. You couldn't have known everyone would flip out.

Your mom could have rolled her eyes and forgot about it, she and her sister could have bitched about her and left it at that... you couldn't have known.

:hug:

[Iris]

6. Probably you should have told that woman you didn't think her "joke"

was funny and you'd appreciate if she didn't say things like that around you anymore. A lot of people use "humour" and sarcasm to hurt other people and then try to pass it off as harmless. As you obviously know, it's not. It's better to deal with someone like this directly and avoid communication triangles like the one you have now.

If your cousin thinks that the things his wife says are ok, then, painful as it may be, losing his friendship is probably necessary and for the best.

[NewInNewJ.]

7. Wow!

What a mess. I don't think you should feel guilty. You were hurt by the cruel words and anyone would be. You are protecting your Mom also. I think the woman is very insecure and is trying to keep your cousin from being close to your family. Holidays & weddings seem to bring out the worst in everybody.Hang in there.

[Bjornsdotter]

8. I'm so sorry...

...for you and your Mom. A parent should never have to bury a child...especially a 12 year old, and no it is something a parent would never get over.

As far as your cousin's wife...she's a lying bitch. If she's going to say something, she should have the guts to own what she says. You cousin has crappy taste in women.

As I avoid most of my cousins (they all seem to share one brain cell)it would be a piece of cake for me. Give it time, your cousin may come around...if not you've got a lot of friends here.

:hug:
Kim

[LeighAnn]

9. Hope you patch it up before Thursday!

Sorry about your cousin's wife, she sounds like a toxic person who needs to be avoided. Are you all going to be sitting at the same table this Thanksgiving? Maybe it'll give you a chance to patch things up.

[skygazer]

10. I wouldn't have told your mom, probably

It was bound to make her feel bad and bring up the death of your brother all over again.

On the surface, the remark sounds like the sort of off the cuff, smart ass remark I might make - not meaning to hurt but simply to make a stupid and probably in retrospect tasteless joke. After all, it's something that happened many years ago and your mother was not present.

However, if this person makes a lot of those remarks, it may have been calculated. Or it may be her form of humor. She may even be defensive because she is not a blood member of the family and might not feel like she fits in. Or her MIL might make it hard for her. Or she might be a flaming bitch.

Whatever it is, her husband, your cousin, is now in the middle between his wife, mother, your mother and you. Not fun.

Personally, I would ask if the family has done enough to make the wife feel welcome - you say she hasn't made you feel welcome but it's your family she's entered - not the other way around. I'm not judging but it's hard to come into another family. I think I'd give the benefit of the doubt here, if not for her than for your cousin, your aunt and your mother.

I don't know as you should feel guilty - shit happens. But maybe someone should reach out and say, "well, maybe I overreacted".

[Sean Reynolds]

12. All good points.

I told my mother because she's been making these statements to me since before their wedding. So I just let it rip because I felt hurt and annoyed that she would say such a thing.

My family has tried to welcome her, but she's made it very hard. My mother even threw her a bridal shower and she got up and left because the food wasn't to her liking and she was expecting more gifts.

After that she really burnt her bridge with my mother and my mom has gone out of her way to ignore her because of all the time and money she spent throwing her that shower.

But it isn't only that, she's called us white trash, uneducated and won't even give my aunt their home phone number.

[skygazer]

15. Well then

Sounds like she fits the "flaming bitch" category. :hug: Sorry for you and your mom.

[Shakespeare]

25. bridal shower behavior

"she got up and left because the food wasn't to her liking and she was expecting more gifts"

That speaks volumes about the kind of person your cousin is. Selfish, arrogant, immature, rude, thoughtless...my jaw dropped when I read that bit about the shower. Best to minimize contact with her--everyone will probably be much happier if that happens.

[DemExpat]

11. I learned in my mid-30s to stop telling family members

what other family members said and did.....

After that, these situations ceased to exist - at my initiation.

Living overseas helped too, though....:evilgrin:

:hug:

DemEx

[madaboutharry]

14. Your cousin and his wife are creeps.

They are creepy people, and well, now you know. Stay away from them.

[tavalon]

16. Should you feel guilty?

No, guilt is a useless emotion, used to cover up for other things. You should look carefully at what you did though. The technical term for what you engaged in there was triangulation. It's a very unhealthy, non-direct form of communication. It tends to cause exactly what happened. Your cousin's wife is a master at passive-aggressive and frankly, it looks like you aren't so bad at it yourself.

Next time (if you ever choose to hang with this odious dysfunctional woman again) set very clear boundaries and consequences for her ignoring those boundaries and follow through accordingly. It's really hard for people who are used to being passive to learn how to be solidly assertive without bouncing over into the aggressive side, but it is learnable. If you don't implicitly understand what I'm suggesting, get books on setting boundaries and on assertive communication skills.

Never, ever, pass on stories. Let the aggrieved parties talk to one another, demand it even, but be careful if you are going to facilitate it.

[Lexingtonian]

17. callous people

It sounds like your cousin's wife is in some kind of personal resentment or a (rather more impersonal) class/status fight you haven't quite noticed/understood beyond the catfights with your female relatives. The rest of it looks like all kinds of people acting according to pride and resentments and loyalties, generally trying to reduce the problem to something more managable for themselves at a cost to others but not getting at the reality.

I'd look at there being some kind of insult inflicted on or conflict generated with your cousin's wife early on, or that the marriage involves a perceived class boundary. This sort of thing is pretty common at the blue collar/white collar line, mostly (but not exclusively, of course). The fact that you have a kind of family political line on her already, rather than an individual one, that it's family unit rather than gender specific, kind of points to the class bit for me.

[Spinzonner]

21. I don't think it's productive to feel guilty

but I don't know what you mean by 'should feel'. You either feel things or you don't. Do you or don't you ?

If you do, then that indicates you are concerned over the family consequences of having revealed something to parties who would be hurt by hearing it.

Now, you didn't make it up or misstate what had been said - I presume - and you are not responsible for the original statement which contained the hurtful words so you did not cause the hurt.

But you may have facilitated it by passing something was said to you and not them. That does not lessen her responsibility for having said it. My attitude has been (after years of being somewhat loose lipped) that when words leave my mouth I lose all control of them and shouldn't ever assume they won't be spread and even be very skeptical of promises of secrecy (which didn't apply here anyway).

I realize you were hurt by what she said and probably sought to share your hurt to help you deal with. However, telling your mother propagated it both to her and other family members. With the consequences you now see ...

I'd suggest that it may be better to:

When you have the urge to repeat things - especially when you are dealing with your own emotions - wait and give yourself time to calm down a little and then be able to think through what might happen. This is not a proscription against ever passing such things, just give yourself a chance to avoid making things worse without due consideration.

Confront the people responsible for causing the hurt in the first place. This may not produce a significant change in their behavior but it gives you a chance to unload your feelings in the right direction and may affect a decision whether to pass it along. It does give the source at least the opportunity to reconsider their words and the consequences. They might even shock you and apologize if you get through to them.

Let her facilitator (your cousin) know that your relationship is affected by her behavior because you don't have confidence that she won't do such things again - not only in your presence but also your mothers. It's his problem how to deal with that and will at least know - right off - of you choose to distance your relationship. You need to protect both yourself and your mother from toxic people like her.

It may not solve anything - at least for the short term - but I'd consider:

Apologize to your mother and aunt for having passed along the statements and caused a family rift. That in fact is the part you had immediate control over. Make it clear that what you said was true and are not responsible for the thoughts. You may be given more credibility on the original claim for having admitted your part in what happened. (Your mother will probably not assign any blame to you anyway but I think you need to given everyone the same story and view to avoid making things worse if they compare notes.)

Let your cousin know that you regret having repeated what his wife said (again, the same story) and why but you do not take responsibility for the words. Do not let him hide behind the lie lie. And that you realize you can't expect him to choose you over his wife but that you have to choose yourself and your family over him and his wife. If its possible to repair your relationship, make it clear that you don't want to be around him when his wife is present because you don't expect him to control her and you can't trust her at this time. For a time, at least, put him on probation on this matter and inquire when you make plans and then when you get together whether his wife will be joining you. If so, refuse to meet him/go along. He needs to understand how serious this is and that you are defending yourself and avoiding potential problems, not causing them.

Maybe at some time his wife will reform and even apologize and you can consider a rapprochement. Maybe not. But at least you will have done your best to keep the family as safely together as you can.