My bf has been lying to me again. need advice.

[loafie]

I posted a few months ago after I found out my boyfriend had been lying to me about his smoking habit. I got over it like many people told me to do, and I had accepted the fact that he was a smoker.

Since then, he has claimed to have been only smoking 2 cigs a day, so I thought that wasn't such a big deal. Sometimes he would really reek of smoke though, so I would ask him if he was really only smoking 2 a day. He would look me straight in the eye and tell me yes, he only smokes 2 a day. Well, today I got it out of him that he really smokes about 10 a day. This really bothers me and I dont know what to do. He doesn't think it's a big deal but it hurts me a lot that he has lied to my face about this for months. This makes it really hard to trust him about anything in the future and I don't know what to do. I want to have a future with him but I don't want to be with someone who thinks it's ok to lie to me, even about things which may seem trivial. What would you do in a situation like this?

[NV Whino]

1. He lies...

He smokes.
He's going to kill himself.
He's going to kill you with secondhand smoke.
Dump him.

Don't mean to be so harsh, but really, there are a lot of people out there in the world. Find someone who respects you.

[Surikat]

If smoking is an issue with you...

...dump him. Smoking is an addictive behaviour. Addicts lie about their addictions all the time. You're putting him on the spot and he's lying to you. Are you surprised?

[arcane1]

2. tough call...

on the one hand, I'd say it's time for him to go, but on the other, lying about a drug addiction is a little different, somehow

I can certainly understand the motivation to lie about that, for embarassment if nothing else. Quitting smoking is HARD, and failing to do so is hard to own up to.

If it were me, dealing with this specific issue, I would probably let it go. At the same time, it would take me a while to trust them again, too

[seg4527]

85. I lied to my girlfriend about smoking

Actually, I just hid it from her. I've been smoking for about 3 months, and I smoked the first 2 months without her knowing. Since she knew that I had the first packed, but then stopped (for about 2 days), she one day said something about "me being good about smoking" since most of my coworkers smoke. It was at that point that I told her.

But we're in a long distance relationship, so that does make it a little different. Honesty is a lot more important in our type of relationship, and I am greatly ashamed of what I did.

Oh, and yes, cigarettes rock for those of us who smoke. I don't like going into excess though. And for me, the best cigarette is the one you have after going a day or two without smoking. So I'm inclined only to smoke 2 or 3 on days I work, and none on my days off.

That's about all I have to say about that.

[Guaranteed]

3. Get out- seriously.

If he'll lie about the small things, he'll lie about the big things.

He sounds like the type that doesn't have the self-esteem to be straight with himself or others about his problems. He covers up his shit instead.

[Goldmund]

96. I don't see "small/big" as the equation here...

...but "affecting the other person/not affecting the other person". Or "only his business/both of theirs business".

I can quickly prove that your "small/big" dychotomy is bogus. Here's a small lie: the answer to the question "Honey, do I look fat?". Or "You don't have to make me dinner if you're tired. Are you tired?". Are those "lies" indicators of a probability that the person will lie about "big things" as well?

[Guaranteed]

102. LOL alright Plato.

No, actually they don't. Because if you'll read the rest of the post, it says that he's "covering up his shit." Those types of "lies" that you mentioned are on an entirely different moral level than lying for the purpose of not owning up to something you've done.

It's the mindset behind the lie that matters.

[Goldmund]

108. "It's the mindset behind the lie that matters."

Oh, I see. So now it's not "small lies lead to big lies". Now it's the mindset that matters.

I agree it's the mindset that matters. That is my whole point. The "shit" he's covering up in no way affects her, he's not covering it up in order to manipulate her or to withdraw affection from her. He's doing it because he is dealing with an addiction he wants to quit and she has not positioned herself as being there for him, but as a judge of his character -- as is obvious from her post.

And as far as not owning up to something you've done... Let me consult Plato again. Have you ever lied to your parents about a bad grade on a test? What treachery that was. Next thing they knew, you were stealing from their wallets, weren't you? Have you ever not told your friend or your "SO" about accidentaly farting really loud in a roomfull of people? Tsk, tsk.

[Guaranteed]

110. No, just read the whole post to try to understand the concept.

You can weed out your own ridiculous "refutations" that way.

[Goldmund]

111. I have. Now you do the same with my posts and stop copping out.

[Guaranteed]

113. Alright, I think we've come to an agreement.

For the record, yes, when I was young I lied to my parents a number of times. For the record, though, I grew, and began to understand that I wasn't lying to them, I was really lying to myself. Since then I haven't lied to anyone- in an effort to cover up my shit.

[Goldmund]

116. Good for you...

...and more importantly, good for you that you have been able to formulate your relationships in such a way. I would like to think that I have as well. And THAT is the issue here, as I see it. It's not that he's an asshole, it is that their relationship is such that it doesn't allow for full honesty about everything that the two people are -- even though the minumum requirement of honesty, which is honesty about things that concern the relationship itself, is fulfilled. The fact that they don't have that kind of a relationship is her fault as much as it is his -- and her posting this, both in substance and in manner (public messageboard), suggests to me that it may even be more her fault than it is his.

[Guaranteed]

117. I wasn't aware of who her boyfriend was until about three minutes ago.

It's true that she really should not have posted this here.

But, honestly, I have no respect for lying. IMO, lying for the purposes that we've been discussing is the worst sin in the world. It denies truth...

[Goldmund]

119. I have no respect for lying either...

...and it isn't like my reaction to the problem was to high-five the dude for lying to his girlfriend about smoking. But an appropriate reaction, IMO, would have been "what's wrong with our relationship when you feel like you can't be open about your failings to me, even if they are none of my business per se" -- not this kind of "I think I've proven you're a bad person. QED. Now let me announce it to the world.". For that, I have even less respect. And I guess that a big issue for me here is that I can't imagine that deep down inside, she would really want to leave a person who is otherwise great because he lied to her about smoking, while never exposing her to the smoke; me thinks that she's looking for an excuse, and posting this on a message board to get that excuse validated. And _that_ is a much bigger lie.

[alevensalor]

4. Lying is the problem

I understand how you feel, and I can understand that the lying is what is important, not the smoking. From a male POV though, all he sees is the smoking as the problem, methinks.

It seems likely to me that he would not lie about more serious things, or things that he thought would really hurt you, but he may not see these white lies as a big problem. Let him know it's not the smoking, it's the lying, and let him know he can tell you anything, as long as it's the truth.

Do you really beat on him about the smoking? Why does he feel like he has to lie about it? Have you asked him?

~A!

[loafie]

7. He knows i hate the smoking

but i didnt make that big a deal out of it when i thought it was only 2 a day. Telling the truth would have been so much better... this sucks.

[jobycom]

15. Don't make it her fault

It doesn't matter if she "beats on him about the smoking." It's not her fault he lies, no matter what she does. If he's a man, he;ll tell the truth. If he values smoking that highly, he'll tell her he's going to smoke and take the consequences of it, not lie.

[x-g.o.p.er]

5. If he's lying about this...

he'll lie about anything. The "looked me in the eye" and lied part is particularly unsettling. Get out while the getting is good.

[jobycom]

6. If he's lying about it, he doesn't respect you, he'll lie about anything

It's not trivial. My spouse used to lie about little things, and I got over it. So she lied whenever she wanted to do something she didn't think I would approve of. Got pretty extreme.

A lie is a lie is a lie. It doesn't matter what he's lying about, if he's lying, he doesn't respect you, and the lies will only get bigger, and in a few years you will be very bitter.

[Gothic Sponge]

8. You can't change people.

Only he can change... if he wants to.

[crispini]

9. Eh, I'd blow it off.

I don't believe anyone is ever completely honest with their SO. I don't think I'd WANT someone I'd dated to be completely honest with me. As long as you didn't catch him sleeping around on you or doing something completely horrible like stealing from you or something like that.

In his mind, he just doesn't want you to hassle him so he tells a white lie to keep the peace. IMO this is kind of in the league of someone who tells your dress looks great when privately he's not all that thrilled with it.

But I felt the same way when I was younger, so I understand completely where you're coming from. In the big scheme of things, it just doesn't seem important to me now. :D

[iamjoy]

10. Dump Him

Not because he smokes, if you can tolerate it, but because he lied. If he lied about that, and had no problem looking you in the eye when he did it, he will lie about other things.

Make it clear you are not dumping him for smoking, but for lying.

The only way I wouldn't dump him is if you have ever been (whether he knows or not) dishonest with him. If that is the case, the two of you need to have a serious discussion about the importance of being straight with each other.


The only time it is okay to lie is before gift giving (honey, that jewelry store bag is something Dad asked me to get for Mom...Merry Christmas, honey, the diamond earings were for you all along) or planning a surprise party (I know its your birthday, dear, but we simply have to see my sister's new drapes tonite...Surprise! Happy Birthday!)

[tjdee]

11. He's deciding what you need to know--treating you like a child.

An ex of mine lied to my face about kissing a friend of ours before we were together. When I found out he lied, he told me that he hadn't wanted me to get mad, it didn't matter, etc.

THAT made me angry--not the kissing, not even the lying. The fact that HE decided what I needed to know. So if we were married, and he lost his job, he would tell me. Or not.

He is telling you, basically, that he knows what you can and can't handle. He tells you what he thinks you should know. Not cool.

[jobycom]

18. Bingo. nt.

[JVS]

78. And she's deciding what he should do--treating him like a child

[tjdee]

83. At least he KNOWS that.

It's not cool to be a nag. But he decides whether to deal with it or not. She can't deal with something she's not even allowed to know.

[Guaranteed]

105. She can't control him, and morally shouldn't even try.

But he has no right to lie to her when she asks him a legitimate question. Even if she's put a moderate amount of pressure on him about this, he has no right. He needs to stand up and face himself, and her.

These types of people who lie about little things are really sick. They have severe emotional problems. Usually one doesn't even know who they truly are.

[MissB]

12. Have you gotten that thing about him lying yet?

I see those that came before me are saying get out. Yeah. Lying is the biggie.

[Lex]

13. Quit trying to control him.

Let him smoke all he wants, he's an adult. If you don't like him smoking, leave him.

His smoking, how much or how little, is HIS decision. Whether you stay with him or not is YOUR decision.

[loafie]

17. Fine

but it's not right to tell someone you love them and then lie to them consistently.

[MissB]

23. You are right

It is the lying that is bugging you, not the smoking.

[buckettgirl]

63. Honey, if this is your only complaint, then you haven't got a clue.

I just read what your bf or ex-bf wrote in a separate thread. It about made me cry. The things he wrote could have easily been written by my husband.
My husband smokes and he has lied to me about it. I don't like him smoking, but for me its that we can't afford for him to buy cigarettes. He has cut down, and buys cheap ones. He also resents me for being able to quit smoking cold turkey and stay quit for just over two years now.
If this is all he's ever done, you have NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT! Take this for example...before we got married, one of husband's friends decided he didn't like me. I went to pick up my husband from this friend's house one night. This friend decided to point a gun at my head and threaten my life (he was also drunk and stoned at the time). My husband hid. He did not try to rescue me or save me. After that, we were separated for about 3 months, over the holidays. That was in 2001. I went back to him because I LOVE HIM. Nothing could change that. It took alot to rebuild what we lost. It has taken this long to be able to trust him again. And he tries so hard! He'd do anything for me! And because of that incident I still treat him pretty crappy alot of the time, even though now he doesn't deserve it. But he loves me, so he stays.

So, you see my dear, there are worse things that could have happened. It sounds like he loves you so much. If you really truly, deep down in your heart love him, this is a moot point. Let it go. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

[CAcyclist]

121. I See you had it bad and I am sorry for you but:

so what? So what if "it could be worse"?

It's bad enough now. She needs to make a decision whether she wants to accept lying or not.

There's lots of people in the world to be with and if you can't find the right one, it's better to be alone than to be with someone who is stressing you out this much.

[jobycom]

21. That's the point. She can't leave him for smoking

if she doesn't know he's smoking. What else would is he afraid to tell her about because she might leave him if she knows?

[Lex]

25. She *knows* he's smoking, but she's trying to control

how much he smokes by essentially saying 'I can only put up with this much smoking.'

Maybe it's just me, but I find that disturbing.

[loafie]

26. I would have tolerated it

just the same if he had told me he was smoking 10 a day. I would not have been happy about it but I would not have left him or forced him to quit. The lying is the issue.

[warrens]

29. He's lying about something very minor

You know he smokes. He minimizes how much he smokes, as most smokers do. I am one, and I know that if I sit and count each cigarette, I smoke more than I think I do. I usually say a pack a day, but it is really more like 25 a day. I think you are taking this WAY too personally.

If he is lying about seeing other women or shooting heroin, that would be different.

[loafie]

30. How will I know

if he is seeing other women? I can't trust him to be honest with me.

[warrens]

42. Just face facts

Everyone lies. Seeing other women? Um, that becomes REAL obvious REAL fast.

This is minor-league stuff. Either you can accept he smokes or you can't. He doesn't smoke in front of you, so what is the problem? He deserves some privacy. Not being nasty, but he probably thought you would go ballistic if he told you the truth. And he probably means to quit, but as a smoker, this is MUCH more difficult than it sounds.

You just have to decide if you can deal with a smoker. He was simply minimizing his smoking, so he must be into you. I would not do that, because I am an old person hardened in my habits. But the first responses, to just dump him because he is endangering you, are obviously kinda nuts. He doesn't smoke around you, so the moron who said you are in danger of second hand smoke is pretty hilarious.

I am amused at how people make smoking a moral issue, but being obese is just a medical problem.

[Goldmund]

60. The FUNDAMENTAL difference between him smoking and seeing other women

is that seeing other women is something that would affect your relationship, and something that IS your business, since you're defining your relationship as monogamous and inherent in it is the promise that he wouldn't see other women.

Whether he smokes or not has nothing to do with you.

[Goldmund]

57. Ask yourself WHY he felt the need to tell you 2 instead of 10

if you had really communicated to him that it would have been "just the same if he had told me he was smoking 10 a day"?

It's none of your damn business whether he smokes or not. If you don't like the smell, then tell him to brush his teeth. If you still don't like it, then leave him. But not only do you have no right to demand he quit smoking, you also have no right to demand he tell you whether he smokes or not. It would be nice if he did tell you -- and it would be nice if he were comfortable enough to be open with you -- but the fact you have this distance is a problem of your relationship, not of his character.

Now, if he doesn't want to tell you, and you keep nagging, what do you think he's going to say? "I plead the fifth"? Leave him alone. If you don't like his smoking, then leave. If you don't like his haircut, then leave. But don't fuck him in the head. This isn't a "lie" any more than in purely technical terms. His smoking or not is none of your business.

[Nestea]

75. She does too have the right to demand it

He can leave her if he wants, but asking someone to quit for you is perfectly allowed.

She can't FORCE him to quit just like she can't force them to stay together, but she can certainly tell him to quit if she wants, just like I can demand that people do stuff. They probably won't listen to me, but I can demand it just the same.

[Goldmund]

80. That's one of the most meaningless posts I've ever read

[Nestea]

81. That's okay

Yours is one of the most meaningless lives I've ever seen. Since we're on personal attacks now.

Smoker.

[Goldmund]

89. I didn't attack you, but your post

And I'm not a smoker, if that has to do with anything.

[d_b]

32. I'm with Lex..

...whoever the hell that is.

[kermujin]

41. thank you ...

as a smoker -- and an attemped (frequently) quitter -- i feel that saying 'if he lies about this, he'll lie about anything' is a bit facile. i, myself, have lied about smoking -- as a grown-up. it doesn't necessarily mean he'll lie about banging the secretary at work or about stealing a car. it means -- like many of us -- he doesn't WANT to be smoking. it's a bloody bitch of a habit to break.

maybe tell him you'd be more comfortable if he'd come clean about smoking; you'll support him if he tries to quit.

and otherwise? he's an adult. if he chooses not to quit, it's not for you to call. it's *his* choice. just (again, as a smoker), try to be there for him if he tries to stop, and try not to be judgemental.

talk to him about this; it's not necessarily a slippery slope.

kermujin

[Renew Deal]

14. It upset me when I caught my g/f smoking a couple times.

I got very upset.

[kermujin]

47. you 'caught' your g/f smoking?!

please. my mother *caught* me smoking. when i was 14. your g/f / b/f is an adult. it's legal to smoke. it's even (god help us) socially acceptable.

if you *caught* your g/f hooking or shooting coke, i could see the upset. i can understand not wanting someone you love to do something as stupid as smoke cigarettes, but really ...

aren't we partnered with people because we ... want to be partnered? i feel for my b/f when he's sad that i've screwed up stopping smoking. but i'd have no tolerance for his feeling he'd 'caught' me smoking.

we're all grown-ups. we make good decisions and bad. but it's not for anyone else to decide.

[sniffa]

49. i caught him touching himseLf at night

*faints*

[Goldmund]

66. LOL!!!!!

[funkybutt]

53. this is a problem obviously

i don't think it qualifies for dumping him. However this could be a pattern. Why lie about that? Was it really necessary to decieve you about that.

Being lied to hurts. Make him aware of this and let him know lying will not be tolerated in ANY situation.

[Renew Deal]

122. She told me she didn't smoke.

I was pissed that she mislead me. You are not me so you have no idea what the difference is between your situation and mine.

[DulceDecorum]

16. The Betrothed

“You must choose between me and your cigar.”
— Breach of Promise Case, circa 1885.

OPEN the old cigar-box, get me a Cuba stout,
For things are running crossways, and Maggie and I are out.
We quarrelled about Havanas—we fought o’er a good cheroot,
And I knew she is exacting, and she says I am a brute.

Open the old cigar-box—let me consider a space;
In the soft blue veil of the vapour musing on Maggie’s face.

Maggie is pretty to look at—Maggie’s a loving lass,
But the prettiest cheeks must wrinkle, the truest of loves must pass.

There’s peace in a Larranaga, there’s calm in a Henry Clay;
But the best cigar in an hour is finished and thrown away—

Thrown away for another as perfect and ripe and brown—
But I could not throw away Maggie for fear o’ the talk o’ the town!

Maggie, my wife at fifty—grey and dour and old—
With never another Maggie to purchase for love or gold!

And the light of Days that have Been the dark of the Days that Are,
And Love’s torch stinking and stale, like the butt of a dead cigar—

The butt of a dead cigar you are bound to keep in your pocket—
With never a new one to light tho’ it’s charred and black to the socket!

Open the old cigar-box—let me consider a while.
Here is a mild Manila—there is a wifely smile.

Which is the better portion—bondage bought with a ring,
Or a harem of dusky beauties, fifty tied in a string?

Counsellors cunning and silent—comforters true and tried,
And never a one of the fifty to sneer at a rival bride?

Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,
Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close,

This will the fifty give me, asking nought in return,
With only a Suttee’s passion—to do their duty and burn.

This will the fifty give me. When they are spent and dead,
Five times other fifties shall be my servants instead.

The furrows of far-off Java, the isles of the Spanish Main,
When they hear my harem is empty will send me my brides again.

I will take no heed to their raiment, nor food for their mouths withal,
So long as the gulls are nesting, so long as the showers fall.

I will scent ’em with best vanilla, with tea will I temper their hides,
And the Moor and the Mormon shall envy who read of the tale of my brides.

For Maggie has written a letter to give me my choice between
The wee little whimpering Love and the great god Nick o’ Teen.

And I have been servant of Love for barely a twelvemonth clear,
But I have been Priest of Cabanas a matter of seven year;

And the gloom of my bachelor days is flecked with the cheery light
Of stumps that I burned to Friendship and Pleasure and Work and Fight.

And I turn my eyes to the future that Maggie and I must prove,
But the only light on the marshes is the Will-o’-the-Wisp of Love.

Will it see me safe through my journey or leave me bogged in the mire?
Since a puff of tobacco can cloud it, shall I follow the fitful fire?

Open the old cigar-box—let me consider anew—
Old friends, and who is Maggie that I should abandon you?

A million surplus Maggies are willing to bear the yoke;
And a woman is only a woman, but a good Cigar is a Smoke.

Light me another Cuba—I hold to my first-sworn vows.
If Maggie will have no rival, I’ll have no Maggie for Spouse!

-- Rudyard Kipling

[warrens]

19. It's up to you

But smoking is hardly the worst crime in the world and you have to judge by other things. People lie all the time, and I notice that many justify it to themselves and claim they never do. I have never met a single person who didn't lie about something significant, if I knew them long enough.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[loafie]

22. Ha n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

24. If he's lying to you about small stuff he doesn't have to lie about....

what about the big stuff he does? Get rid of him.
Duckie

[Gato Moteado]

27. if you're a non-smoker....

....then it sucks to be around a smoker.

if it were me and some woman i was with was smoking and lying about it, i'd dump her in a second. i can't stand to be around smokers or liars. it's a no brainer of a decision.

[loafie]

28. I wish it was that easy

to just dump him and get over it, but I love him and this is breaking my heart.

[Gato Moteado]

33. how long have you been with him?

nt

[loafie]

34. 9 months n/t

[Gato Moteado]

36. well that's a tough one i guess.....

but for me it would be easy.

smoking is a health issue. it's also a disgusting habit to those who can't stand it. lying is a terrible character flaw.

if i were with someone for nine months and i found out they were lying about smoking, i would split up in a heartbeat. i know for a fact that i don't want to spend the rest of my life with a smoker or a liar. i would never be happy. so, my only choice would be to find a new partner who cared about me as much as i would care about them.

[lizzieforkerry]

37. Did he start by only smoking 2 cigs a day

and then it just kept creeping up but he didn't want to admit it to you, or was he smoking 10 from the beginning of the lie?

[loafie]

40. 10 from the beginning

at least that's what he tells me now. Who knows...

[lizzieforkerry]

44. dump him.

I had a boyfriend once that lied to me about smoking and
after we broke up I found out he lied about drugs, and sleeping with other women. He was really a great guy until I found that stuff out, we dated for 4 years.

[Goldmund]

62. Oh wow, was he black too?

[lizzieforkerry]

87. huh?

Matt, is that you?!

[Goldmund]

88. What I meant was...

...that you are making a blanket statement based on a single incident -- or in other words, stereotyping.

[lizzieforkerry]

91. I'm pretty sure that the person who started this

thread is intelligent enough to realize that that was a personal experience with one man. I think she will most likely just use it as one data point. I was not stereotyping, only giving her advice based on the only experience I have ever had that relates to her current situation. I am pretty sure she is not going to dump him based entirely on what I have written. I apologize if I have offended the I-lie-to-my-girlfriend-about-smoking-but-not-about-anything-else group by telling my personal, and actually very painful story.

[Goldmund]

92. His lying to you about something that is none of your business...

and that you have no right to demand to know (although in an ideal relationship a person is as honest with the other person as they are with themselves -- but that's utopia, not impossible, but rare, and is a utopia of relationship, not of character) is totally unrelated to lying about things that ARE your business and which you DO have the right to demand knowing about, and which you describe. To draw this cause-and-effect relationship is totally wrong. It's as credible as -- say the guy was blond -- as saying "my only experience with a blond guy has been such-and-such, beware of blond guys".

[lizzieforkerry]

97. I think that if someone is going to lie to you

it opens the door for future lies. The fact that someone you love is or is not smoking is your business. Why continue a relationship with someone if you know that you can't (I have asthma) or don't want to be around someone who smokes. It is easy to hide in the early stages of a relationship but if it moves to the point where you want to get married or share a living quarters it very much does concern you. By that time you are much more emotionally invested and stand to be hurt many fold what would have happened if you had known the guy was a smoker from the beginning. My comparison was "my only experience with a liar is that he then lied about such and such, so beware of liars."

[Goldmund]

100. I agree that you do have the right to demand the person...

...not smoke AROUND you, for the reasons you mentioned and more, but which he obviously didn't in this case -- since he wouldn't have been able to lie if he were smoking around her. As far as "getting married, living quarters" and all that jive, two things: 1) I know plenty of people who don't smoke in their houses or in front of their spouses; and 2) The dude is obviously trying to quit, and unless they were getting married tomorrow, I don't see the point of this argument. By the time they're ready to get married, he may well quit -- it's not like being a "smoker" is a permanent genetic condition.

As for your "my only experience with a liar" and so on -- it's a good comeback, I admit. But I'd venture to say that cannot possibly be true. "How do my new shoes look?" -- nobody ever lied to you answering that question? And if they did, would you put them in the same category as the asshole you describe? Or, "If you're tired, you don't have to drive me. Are you tired?" -- nobody ever lied to you in an analogous situation?

Your blanket statement reminds me of the whole Clinton/Monica business. I didn't care he lied about Monica because it was nobody's business but his family's. It had nothing to do with his job as President. Equivalently, whether Loafie's boyfriend smokes is nobody's business but his, and has nothing to do with their relationship -- as long as he keeps the smoking out of the relationship, which he obviously does.

[lizzieforkerry]

118. Well if someone did lie to me about my shoes

and I found out- I would be very skeptical about any further comments that person makes about my clothes or decorating. I hope that my friends are comfortable enough around me to tell me the truth if I am asking their opinion. I am most likely asking because I am unsure and need an honest response. It wouldn't help me if someone lies. I wouldn't expect them to be mean "those shoes make your ankles look even fatter" or "I can't believe your taste is so bad that you would even think about buying those" but a nice "I like your black ones better" or "they are not my favorite" gets the point across. So, yes, people have probably lied to me. If I found out however, I would be suspect of future comments or actions. But these lies don't have the same impact on my life as the lies of a SO. I put a lot more faith and energy and passion and commitment into these relationships than friendships. So these lies will affect me more. I really don't care if my friends smoke.

As for Clinton I don't think it was anyone's business than Hillary's. And I don't think his lie could be used to prove that he wasn't a good president (personally, I think he was the best president we ever had) But I think his lie had everything to do with what kind of a husband he might be. I wouldn't blame Hillary for not trusting Bill if he were to say "No baby, I didn't eat at McDonalds today" He has a history of lying and this lie, although it is entirely his own business affects Hillary because she is very worried about his health, the same as someone who loves a smoker, and wants that person to quit smoking.

I hope he can quit smoking, if he wants to. I didn't get from her post that this is the issue. What I got from it is "you caught me, I do smoke" Not "you caught me, I'm trying to quit" I believe if you are not willing to quit in the beginning of a relationship, when you are in love and trying to impress, you really aren't going to do it later unless you want to. If you quit for someone else you will just resent that person, and you won't be able to quit anyway.

[Goldmund]

120. My point in bringing up Clinton...

...is to draw the difference between lying about something that falls under the common interest area of the liar and the person lied TO, and something that does not. Clinton's affair is something that is definitely Hillary's business, but it's not yours or mine. Lying about WMDs to start a war is definitely your business and mine, since the war affects us; Clinton getting blowjobs didn't. And furthermore, the public had no right to demand to know about Clinton's blowjobs; Hillary did have that right.

Analogously, Loafie had no right to demand to even know whether her boyfriend smokes or not. Yes, in an ideal relationship, everything is known, and self-knowledge and sharing that knowledge become one in the same. But they don't have that relationship, and that is something they should work on -- not baiting people on a message board to condemn her boyfriend so that she could feel more justified in calling him an asshole.

[Guaranteed]

106. WHAT???

Dude, you need to retake philosophy.

[Goldmund]

109. Do elaborate.

[errorbells]

31. re:

There are reasons people feel the need to lie, and smoking is just like any other addiction...hard to quit.

You have to decide if you can live with someone that is dishonest with you.

From my experience there are usually more things hidden when someone feels the need to lie about smoking. Only you can decide if his not telling you the truth about things is okay enough to hang in there with him.

Smoking was just about the hardest drug I ever gave up. Took me years to quit..1985. I never lied about it. I have had the same experience as you with someone else and would encourage you to seek help or walk away.

Perhaps after asking him to get some counseling with you...i always found 12 step meetings and/or episcopal ministers the most helpful.

I am not sure you are ready to hear that you have already answered your own question.


Sweetie, you deserve to be well treated. Try not to forget that.

[AngryAmish]

35. Smoking is great when one smokes

I got the habit rather late in life. Nobody wants to be with a smoker...but when one does it the habit is great. I quit about six months ago and started again three months ago.

My girlfriend hates me smoking. Do I lie to her about smoking? Of course.
Do I love her any less? No.

My advice to you? I have none. But smoking is not evil, just a weakness.

[The empressof all]

38. I don't think the issue is that he lied but why he lied

1. He didn't want you to harp on him about the smoking and it was easier to lie

2. He's embarrassed about being addicted and isn't ready to give it up yet.

3. He was afraid you'd leave him if he continued to smoke

4. He's a lying skeeven bastard who lives to make your life miserable at any turn


Actually, I'm sure there is no one easy answer why we deceive the ones we love. I do know that those who find it hard to work things through and forgive have very short lived relationships.

The folks here who advise you to leave him don't know you or the true quality of your relationship. Only you know if he is worth forgiving.

[loafie]

39. thank you empress

and thank you everyone. I have a lot to think about.

[Champ]

45. He said what I wanted to say

Except 1,000 times better. Good post.

[Champ]

43. I don't know

Is he a good boyfriend, someone who doesn't mess with around, treats your right, etc. I haven't known anyone that was 100% honest with their SO, I don't know anyone who has been 100% honest with anyone.

[loafie]

46. He is a great guy

other than the lying, of course. Treats me better than anyone ever has and does so much for me. Unfortunately, now there is an issue with trust which is a big problem for me.

[Midlodemocrat]

51. Look, I just read your post

...and frankly, I don't know why you are so freaked out. He probably kept the smoking thing from you because he was embarrassed that he had been unable to quit. I did the same thing to my husband about a diet. It most certainly doesn't mean that he is doing 'other things' behind your back. I certainly wasn't. A little lie, is sometimes just that, a little lie. If you love him, and he loves you, you should be together. Life is too short to be alone.

[zapp]

52. Jaayyyysus

For people I thought were tolerant....holy crap.

Sounds to me like HE needs to get the F away from You!!

U sound controlling and highly condemning. Did you ever think that he might be unwilling to tell the truth because of the reaction he might get from u?

And two effing cigs....grow up.

[Goldmund]

68. No shit

[tishaLA]

70. I have to agree with you

even though I'd use a slightly different tone.

I wonder why he feels like he has to hide his smoking. If it's simply because the OP disapproves, I say too bad. He might like it and I think it's pathological to worry about whether he smokes 2 or 10 cigarettes a day. It seems to me that it's not really his problem. When he wants to quit smoking--if he ever does--he will. And he might fail a few times, too.

But to have an inquisitor about smoking habits is beyond infantalizing, IMHO. Back off.

[Goldmund]

48. Well, look

think about why he doesn't feel comfortable telling you how much he smokes. You have no right to demand that he quit smoking, only to advise -- and you need to make it clear that you're not exerting pressure or blackmailing. He didn't lie to you about anything that is any of your business, really. These kinds of "lies" -- about subjects that are clearly one's personal matter -- are not exactly "lies", but more of a symptom of a less-than-open and less-than-comfortable relationship.

[Skittles]

50. it's an addiction, loafie

addictions make people do things they would not normally do. If you truly cared about this guy you'd try to work it out.

[Debi]

54. Do you nag?

and people don't flame me...but after you found out he was a smoker have you continued to harp on it? So, he lied to get you to quit nagging him.

Has he lied about anything else (that you know of?) Where he goes, who he hangs out with, how he spends his money, if he has a job/where he works? Or just this one thing?

If you're bothered by his inability to be honest about this one subject, dump him, it will continue to bug you and invade other parts of your relationship. If you can accept that he's a smoker and leave him alone about how much/when/whatever, you can move forward with more important issues.

[Runcible Spoon]

55. GUYS- is it REALLY our place to give advice like this?

we don't won't have the whole picture here..this issue isn't exactly the summation of their relationship (I assume). Maybe we should just support her instead of sending out the Morality Brigade to lynch her BF.

[Dogmudgeon]

56. The Puritains Hath Spoken

This has to be the ugliest f*cking thread I have ever read here, and that's been almost three years.

Loafie, you'd be a fool to dump him over some mediocre, frightened lies. Lying is far from a grave moral sin, though it usually is a "wake up call", and I think you realize that. Use this as an opportunity to work through the stuff.

If he's afraid to tell you he's smoking, he obviously cares for you.

As for the idea that he's some kind of defective bum who (gasp!) would dare lie to you -- and must be dumped at once! -- take the measure of the people who are telling you that. They're using a person's weaknesses to condemn him sight unseen. And many of them -- men and women alike -- seem to be of the "all-men-are-scum" school of human relations.

Give it some time and some work.

The rest of you who have pronounced sentence from On High, well, be careful around mirrors.

--bkl

[Rambis]

58. No, no ,no, the problem these days is he got caught!

That seems to be the message we are sending today. It is ok to back stab, lie, cheat, steal, whatever as long as you don't get caught. My advice, dump his sorry ass!

[JVS]

59. His smoking is his business. Leave him alone

[pagerbear]

61. Delete

[pdx_prog]

64. You're dealing with the strongest addiction...

He will lie to you.....he lies to himself all day long. It doesn't mean that he doesn't love you, or that he is dishonest about anything else. If you have never smoked, you don't know what he is going through.

[Runcible Spoon]

65. do you really need strangers on the Web to help you make decisions?

that's a bit disturbing...discussing it over coffee with a close friend in one thing...all I know is if I got dumped because of what a bunch of people (who i DO love, BTW, and whose opinions on many things I DO value) on the internet told my BF I was Satan, I'd be pissed.

[Thtwudbeme]

67. Some advice: Don't start a fight with a personal friend

on a public message board.

You sound like an immature snot.

[livinginphotographs]

76. Best...post...ever.

If I was your boyfriend, I'd dump you just for this little stunt.

My advice: grow the fuck up, and quit airing your dirty laundry on a public message board. I'm sure when he started dating you, he didn't sign up to be on a reality show with all of DU nitpicking your relationship.

[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Winning post right here...

Not to mention needy for attention. :hi:

[dancing kali]

86. Thank you

I was planning on saying the same thing when I had finished reading all the posts.

[Renew Deal]

124. This whole post was a setup.

Magic Rat introduced her to DU. This was a vindictive thing to do.

[loafie]

127. I didnt start a fight

I wanted some advice from people who would be impartial. My friends and family would obviously take my side. I got a lot of good responses before people found out who my bf was. Then all of a sudden I was evil.

-The Snot

[Thtwudbeme]

135. No, Loafie.

Grow up. I remember the day Magic Rat introduced you to DU, and you started posting.

Your responses weren't "good" before people found out who your BF was...DUers did not have enough information to give you any "good" advice--in other words, you provided tidbits that included the word "lied" over and over again--and manipulated your responses by the way you framed the question.

Posting this shit on DU was vindictive and nasty. MR should have written a "sorry for my GF's Bullshit post, and dropped it.

Quit being a snot; you are young, you have the opportunity right now to become something really special. Don't strive for mediocrity in life.

[American Tragedy]

69. I don't think it's a good idea to ask for advice on a forum where the

object of your question is likely to read it.

Anyway, to me this does sound like a fairly small issue. I don't know enough about your situation, but I suspect that I have dealt with far greater suffering and deception in all of my past relationships. I would have given anything to have something like this as my cause for complaint. If he lies about other things, maybe you need to act decisively. But if it is only this one situation I might take more pity. He is grappling with a physiological addiction and undoubtedly is embarrassed that he hasn't beaten it yet.

But do get him to quit eventually. It is a filthy habit.

[RUDUing2]

71. I would question why I felt such a need to control his behavior and

why I would let this become such a huge issue. Take a hard look at yourself and try to detirmine why he is hiding it from you? Is it because he doesn't trust YOU?..doesn't trust that you really care about him to accept him as he is? This is about the both of you..not just his behavior, cause it seems to me that his behavior is possibly in reaction to your behavior. Maybe it is because he feels that you have such impossibly high standards set for him that he can't help but fail to live up to them. Ask yourself why he should feel he has to lie about this in order to continue a relationship with you.

[the Princess]

72. Men lie...........

It's a fact of life. Even the nicest guy in the whole world will lie to you if he thinks it will get him out of a tough spot. They think it's easier to lie then to tell the truth. Maybe it is. :shrug:

But as for the smoking - if it bothers you that much - end it. It will always be a problem.

[Goldmund]

103. Men lie, it's a fact of life???

Yeah. Especially the colored ones. They steal too.

[Commendatori]

73. I'm an ex-smoker myself, and the last thing a person who's quitting needs

is an argument. Cold turkey isn't realistic for most.

When I quit, I lied to my better half too, because I knew that if we got into an argument about it and the tension rose, I'd finish off whatever was in the pack. It was better for both of us.

If you know he's doing his best to quit, and he's doing it for you, cut him some slack. JMO.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

74. have you ever quit an addiction for him?

[Medium Baby Jesus]

77. I'd advise him to dump you.

Stop treating him like a baby and maybe he will stop lying to you.

[LoZoccolo]

82. Ditto.

Sure he shouldn't have lied, but I would have broke camp pretty quickly if someone told me to stop smoking a few months into a relationship, especially if they knew that when we started dating. I would have nexted her pretty quickly.

She makes this argument about how she can't trust him anymore, but he also can't trust her not to nag him about stuff he likes to do. He talks in the other post about verbal abuse - I'd be so out of there, especially if she went and aired all this stuff on DU.

P.S.: I know smoking is bad too - I ended up with heart disease when I was 27, probably from smoking. It's more the nagging I'm talking about.

[Maddy McCall]

93. Don't "fall in love" with someone expecting to change them.

If he smoked when she began dating him, then she should have either accepted it or let him go.

I have never understood why people begin dating a "flawed" person, allow the relation to get serious, and only then decide to attempt to eliminate behaviors they don't like in the other person.

[SarahB]

99. Great advice.

It's hard though when something's already there and then the thing that's the deal breaker creeps up. Then what? I think he may have been a non-smoker when they began their relationship and then started up again. I've been down that road with stuff other than smoking. It's rough. If I were merely dating and hadn't been married for several years when it started, I'd be out. With the stuff within my marriage, I felt forced to compromise on something I didn't sign on for and there was no discussion because how could I dare ask someone not to do something that "wasn't a problem". By the time he realized the truth, I had nothing left and it was already too late.
If someone's doing something you dislike though, either accept it or go. All relationships involve compromise in some regards and we all have different levels as to how much we can compromise. I completely agree with what your saying, I just wanted to expand at the same time. :)

[Groggy]

84. Ask him why he is lying to you

If its because you are nagging to much I could understand. It is extremely hard to quit smoking. BUT he really shouldn't lie to you and I can understand how hurt you are. I would be upset about the lying too. Explain to him that you need him to be honest with you. If he doesn't want to quit, you can't make him. He has to want to quit and any nagging by you will only make things harder.

Keep in mind that if you are a non-smoker, and you set up house together, you will be breathing all of that in. I was married for four years to a smoker and all my clothes stunk, our house stunk and I would get colds all the time. I found it really annoying.

[arwalden]

90. Other Than That... How Are Things?

Good sex? :-) Is he kind to you? Do you laugh and love and have a good time?

Are there enough things in the good-column to outweigh this? Or is smoking a deal-breaker for you? (It sounds like it is.)

[Maddy McCall]

94. If smoking is a deal-breaker for her...

she never should have gotten serious to begin with.

You can't fall in love with someone and then later expect them to eliminate the behaviors you don't like. JMHO.

[Wonk]

95. Allen, I take it you missed the other thread about this little drama?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2033277&mesg_id=2033277

Care for some popcorn?

[arwalden]

98. Nope... I missed that one.

It looks like we're witnessing the public airing of dirty laundry... and I thought I was being helpful.

What a silly thing to do--ask advice about your boyfriend who's ONLINE and using the SAME forum as you--amazing!

Thanks for filling me in, Wonk.

[MayJuly4]

101. Why?

Why would you stay with someone who LIES to you?

Today it's about how many cigs he smokes - tomorrow it may be about which one of your girlfriends he screwed and how much he "borrowed" from your wallet.

Get some backbone and some self respect and kick his ass out of your life.

:argh:

[Goldmund]

104. And the day after tomorrow...

...he'll be telling you you don't look fat!

Tragedy!

[Guaranteed]

107. Man, all the messed-up people showed up at the end of this thread.

The guy's lying to you and they attack you over it. Whatever.

[LoZoccolo]

112. You didn't read the other thread.

Which got locked for some reason while this one didn't.

Isn't this thread technically a personal attack on another DUer? Hmmmm.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2033277

[Guaranteed]

115. You're right, I did not see that.

Well, looks like he "outted" himself. But, yeah, she definitely should not have taken this to DU.

[Renew Deal]

126. She was trying to hurt him.

Not nice.

[Heddi]

114. I lie to my husband about smoking, too

why>

Because I hate the nagging.

I don't smoke around him. I smoke at school or work. We sometimes may have a ciggy or 2 on the weekend (he is a passive smoker: only smokes on rare occasions and will just take a drag off my ciggy if it's around).

Does that mean that I'm a horrible wife? Hardly. It just means that there is one aspect of our relationship that he would get unfairly bent out of shape about if he were to know about. I'm not lying about cheating on him. I'm not lying about finances. And more than likely he KNOWS I smoke more than I say I do.

Sometimes in relationships there are compromises. We've been together for 8 years and this is the only thing--only thing--I've lied to him about.

If he found out I smoked more than I did, would he divorce me? If he did, he'd be a fool, although I doubt he would say anything more than "oh. that's interesting. you really should quit, you know".

I guess it's a passive/aggressive thing with me. He KNEW I was a smoker some 8 years ago when we first met. Then suddenly I smoked too much. Then I needed to not smoke during this time, and cut out smoking during that time....etc etc.

I love him dearly---with all my heart---but come on.....I think you're being a little bit TOO harsh. There are degrees of lies, you know.

Would you be as upset if for the past year he told you every time you wore a certain dress that you looked FABULOUS in it, only to find out that you didn't look fabulous in it? Would that be the same on the 'lie scale' as say, cheating? Or having a secret bank account? Of course not.

Set priorities right now. If he was a smoker when you met, you cannot reasonably expect him to change FOR YOU. Why hook up with someone who has qualities you find intolerable? It's unreasonable to think that you (generic you) are such a fine, outsanding person, that you would assume that ANYONE in your presence would be willing to change a habit just for your sake.

What habits have you given up for HIM? What undesirable character trait have YOU changed for his benefit?

Why do I smoke? Because I like it. Why do I not tell my husband that I smoke as much as I do? Because I hate nagging and lecturing. I'm in nursing--I know full well the detriment to my health that smoking poses. But I like smoking. It's a powerful addiction. I've tried to quit MANY times---for my health and his....temper :) But it's hard, and I've not succeeded.

Choose your battles. That is how my husband and I (or any successful relationship) have been happy for the entirety of our lives together. Would he be disapointed to find out I lied? Of course. But he would know that a 'ciggy lie' isn't the same as a 'cheating and pregnant with another man's baby and oh yeah I got vaginal warts' lie. Sheesh. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

Also---it's not really good form (imo) to air your dirty laundry on a public board, especially when your sig other posts on the same board.

As much as you're hurt by his lying, he should be hurt by your insensitivity to his feelings. And THAT is a major source of resentment in some people.

If you needed advice, ask a friend, or go to a new board. YOU are showing as little concern for HIS feelings as you state he's showing for yours.

THe two of you need to sit down, talk about what is REALLY important in your relationship and set boundaries for that relationship. I don't think it's fair to ask him to quit smoking if you're going to nag him every day if he smells a little smoky. What adjustments are YOU going to make for him?

Me thinks you're making a mountain out of a molehill, imo.

[Carolab]

123. He's addicted, that's all

and ashamed that he can't control it for you. You need to lighten up and help him with his urge to light up. He needs support, not the third degree and certainly not your lack of faith in him to tell you the truth across the board.

Have you ever smoked? I guess not. Or else you would understand what he is going through and not be so judgmental about it.

[loafie]

125. No I've never smoked

and I take pride in the good judgement I have.

I also don't lie to people I love on a daily basis.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

131. You Don't Sound Very Tolerant to Me

If you expect your S.O. to be perfect always, you will be destined for permanent disappointment.

You've heard both sides. Yes, his lie was wrong, but yes, a lie of this nature should not be as big of a deal to you as it apparently is.

I think you two have bigger issues, as should be obvious from your posting of the complaint here on this particular forum. I hope you work it out...but if you don't, then it's probably better for both of you that you didn't.

DTH

[Gemini Cat]

128. I only smoke eight a day.

On 3 November, I smoked ten and felt bloody rotten afterwards. Oh well.

The point I'm trying to make to this posting is, who cares. There's much more to worry about (like four more years of that rollicking wanker in office and the damage he will do to the world) then worrying around about your pal sneaking a smoke.

[neebob]

129. Just to put it in perspective

I once had a boyfriend who told me he was a nice widower with two grown children and his own small business, but he was really just a big disgusting bum and a runaway husband and deadbeat father of seven, and his dear dead wife was just someone he had an affair with, whose husband only tried to kill her when he found out about it.

He pretended to be all homophobic while secretly cruising parks and public bathrooms and what have you. Wooed women and men, too, on my computer while I was out working to support his sorry ass and, while I was away on business trips, placed nasty ads and made dates with men and met them in my car.

Blood in the toilet? Oh, that was just more proof that he was dying and I didn't care. He faked a bunch of illnesses to avoid working and having sex - even faked a small stroke, with the unwitting complicity of a doctor, to buy himself additional time under my roof. He repeatedly disabled and eventually wrecked a truck I'd bought for purposes of his going to work, which never happened, and told outrageous whoppers about those things and anything and everything.

When I finally got rid of him - which was no easy thing - I discovered he had Hepatitis C and realized he'd deliberately exposed me, by allowing me to test my blood sugar using the testing equipment for the Diabetes he may or may not have been faking.

Oh, and after I threw him out on his fat fanny with no wheels and a few hundred bucks, he ran right out and got a job driving a truck for the county in which he'd just been convicted of drunk driving, using my address and phone number. He then financed and insured a better truck than the one I'd bought for him, also using my address and phone number.

All this after calling his wife and telling her he'd lost "his" truck and all his stuff.

Did I mention he was a multiple convicted felon with a history of bogus lawsuits? He also drank like a fish and did drugs and lied about both of those things. I couldn't even begin to count the lies. Basically, the dude couldn't tell the truth if his ass was on fire.

Not to mention all things he hocked or traded for dope or sexual favors or whatever else he did with my stuff. All I know is lots of things disappeared. You don't wanna know how much he cost me - five years later, I'm still paying for it.

If Scott Peterson and Mark Hacking got together and had a gigantic, mean, ugly, completely worthless baby, it would be this guy. It wouldn't surprise me to see him on the news one day and learn he's also a serial killer.

Never mind how I got into it or why I wasted two years with this monstrous loser. One of the many things I learned was never to forgive lies. And, as it happens, the first one I discovered was that he smoked - which was really stupid, considering I'm a smoker.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

132. You Had Me Until the End

I guess everyone who tells a white lie is in fact a monster.

:eyes:

DTH

[onebigbadwulf]

130. Welcome to Dumpsville - population your boyfriend

Why waste your time with a lying smoker? Even if it's the ONLY problem it's a BIG one - so get OUT.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

133. Youre a couple infants addicted to each other.

Try to stay together as long as you possibly can so that you can
learn the lessons you have to learn without fucking up a
bunch of other people too.

[fleabert]

134. pick up Alan Carr's book

(poorly titled, IMO, trivializes the message and advice)

"Easy Way to Quit Smoking"

both for yourself and the bf. It will give you a better understanding of the mind of a smoker and why he lies, and it may actually help him quit. The author was a HEAVY chain smoker who tells it like it really is for smokers, without being condesending or dumping guilt; neither of which will encourage someone to quit.

good luck. quitting is the one of the hardest things for an addict to do. Harder than lying to someone they love.

Edited to add: I didn't read any of the thread before responding, so take this as having no relation (on my part) to anything you mention later. I have read a bit now, and see that I may touch a nerve with some of my comment. I hope they come across as sincere and untainted.

Edit #2(btw-i smoke, my SO does not, he hates it but absolutely does not nag or berate me for it-and I have to say >before I get flamed< that I do not smoke inside our home. He does, however, wholeheartedly and without hesitation, support every effort I have made to quit)

and shame on you for posting this like you did! I have now read the other thread and this one, y'all need to talk! I'll leave my message even though it might be moot.

[jukes]

136. here's mine: grow up!

sorry if that sings, but you ast...

[foreigncorrespondent]

137. loafie...

...I normally hate getting involved in the airing of peoples dirty laundry online, but I just gotta say something here.

I was in a relationship with a guy for 15 years. During that 15 years he tried several times to change me.

-- I smoke, he didn't.

-- I drink socially, he didn't.

-- I like to go out and have a good time with friends, he didn't.

What he tried to do with my smoking habbit was to get me to quite smoking, when I wasn't ready to quite. The end result of this little venture was, I to this day still smoke.

What he tried to do with my social drinking was to get me to quite. The way he thought was perfect to do this was to call me an alcoholic every chance he got. To this day, I still drink socially.

What he tried to do with my being a socialble kind of person was, he tried to keep me to himself. The end result of that little venture is, I am still able to make friends today. I still enjoy going out with friends. All this while he sits at home alone, growing older by the day being a miserable little shit.

What I am trying to say loafie is this, trying to change someone when that someone doesn't want to be changed will always end up back firing on you. What you risk is losing probably one of the best things that could ever happen to you in your life.

Sapphocrat (my partner who is also a DUer) truly is hooked on computer life. I mean nothing I do can drag her away from the computer when we are together, and she is really hooked on completing a project she is working on. When we are apart, I always know when she is working on a knew project, or updating an old project before she even tells me, simply because her responses to me in IM's are often very slow. But you know what? No matter how much I want her attention on me, I would never leave her, or try and change her, for her enjoying the work she does. I fell in love with her for the person she is. With that comes all her little quirks. And those quirks only make me love her more.

I suggest you take a look deep in side yourself loafie. What he did was told you a LITTLE lie in order to stop an argument from occuring.

He isn't ready to give up smoking and you need to realize you cannot force someone into doing something, because the end result will always the opposite of what you want.

When you fall in love with someone you didn't fall in love with a mould of a person you created, you fell in love with that person, even that persons quirks and habbits. Seriouly girl, look in deep in side yourself. Once you do you may find that you can work through this with him, and move on from the space you currently find yourself in.

I do want to state that with my ex trying to change me isn't why I ended up breaking up with my him several years ago.

[BigMcLargehuge]

138. locked

it was the same old story, boy meets girl, girl posts thing on Internet discussion board, boy posts counter thing on same Internet dicussion board, boy loses girl, everyone goes bananas, someone yells "food fight", cats and dogs and toads begin to rain down from the heavens, then, just the discussion is about to turn into a Sophocles inspired "Festival of Tragedy" the mod locks it.

Tune in next week for another exiciting episode of "As the Mod Locks"

featuring:
Big McLargehuge as DU Moderator
Dana DeLovely as Margaret DeLovely
Sir James Stanhope as Dr. Chad Sexington...

[tavalon]

139. It doesn't matter what I would do

Look at your own values. You state them very clearly in your next to last sentence. Listen to yourself, you are wise.