Che Guevara - Terrorist, Selfish Ideologue or Freedom Fighter?

[Wat_Tyler]

Poll question: Che Guevara - Terrorist, Selfish Ideologue or Freedom Fighter?

I'll take selfish ideologue myself.
Background - I was reading a piece in the Globe and Mail on The Motorcycle Diaries, and the writer was comparing Guevara with bin Laden. This got me thinking about whether Guevara was a force for good or evil. In the end I decided he was mostly a force for himself.

[name not needed]

1. Block of cheese

[da_chimperor]

4. Would that be swiss?

:evilgrin:

[name not needed]

12. Smoked Gouda

:)

[da_chimperor]

2. Probably the most ineffective guerrilla leader ever n/t

[Wat_Tyler]

5. That's about my position.

[snoochie]

18. Wasn't he instrumental in overthrowing the oligarchy in Cuba?

Why was he such a target if he wasn ineffective?

[da_chimperor]

23. I wouldn't say instrumental

I'm no expert, but from what I know of Guevara he was a good tactical commander and a very good figurehead. That's probably why they were targeting him specifically, like they would any important members of the revolution. His 'visionary' writings on revolution sounded nice at the time, but they didn't work as he was betrayed in by the very same Bolivian peasants he tried to help and the summarily shot afterward. I'd say while he was a definite asset, Castro would have defeated Batista without him. I was thinking more about his success as a revolutionary when I wrote my original post. Sure, he helped out in the Cuban revolution, but his next two ventures in the Congo and Bolivia were a failure and a disaster in that order.

[Zuni]

27. Batista would have gone down eventually w/o Castro

Perhaps if Castro and Che didn't then (after batista fell) violently supress the will of democratic resistance fighters, Cuba would be a much better place today.

[JohnKleeb]

3. Don't know anything about him

[Kilroy003]

6. He'll always be famous for his stance on education.

He made a good call on that score.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

7. how about "world class jerk"?

Oh, sure, the romantic revolutionary, but he comes across like some blowhard jerk in a biography I read. Really not all that cool or likeable or even charismatic.

[IndianaGreen]

8. I'll take Che over the American-backed Batista anyday!

The same type of pukes that hated Che are the ones that toppled democratically elected President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954, Allende in Chile in 1973, and have been trying to topple Chavez in Venezuela.

Take a close look at America's crimes before rendering judgement on anyone else!

[Wat_Tyler]

9. Have done, but that doesn't mean we should give Che an easy ride.

I can't give my support to a guy who was extremely disappointed when the Cuban Missile Crisis didn't trigger a war.

[Zuni]

26. exactly. Castro himself tried to instigate a nuclear war

He begged Khruschev to pre-emptively launch a strike on the US during the crisis.
he never forgave Khruschev for acting sensibly and working w/ Kennedy to defuse the situation.

[Bridget Burke]

30. He didn't get an easy ride.

A CIA stooge had him shot in cold blood--without a trial.

[Wat_Tyler]

34. Not what I'm talking about, Bridget.

We shouldn't give him an easy ride purely because he was on 'our' side. His death has nothing to do with that.

[Fenris]

16. You have a natural gift, my dear, for historical oversimplification.

[Zuni]

25. So everyone gets a pass because the US has been wrong?

Sorry, I judge all historical figures by the same standards. Che was an authoritarian asshat.

[norml]

10. You left out fashion statement.

I'm not sure which to vote for. I haven't studied him enough. I just know him from t-shirts,and posters with that one famous picture. I wonder who got the royalties?

[name not needed]

11. Trucker hats too

Right next to the Spongebob shirts at Sam Goody

[Wat_Tyler]

13. That's part of it.

We have to peel back the romantic myth to see who the real Ernesto Guevara was.

[flamingyouth]

14. I went for selfish idealogue

I read Jon Lee Anderson's book on him a few years ago and found it quite interesting. At nearly 800 pages, it's a commitment, but it's fascinating.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802135587/qid=1099262043/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-6474555-2175309?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Wat_Tyler]

15. Neat. I'll check it out.

[Magrittes Pipe]

17. When he died, they said he was a saint, but I know he ain't.

Everything you'll ever need to know about anything can be learned via Suicide.

[H2O Man]

22. A saint is merely a safely-dead sinner

who has had his/her life edited and revised. Che was a complex man, who had a fascinating mixture of good and bad that allows people to have a fascinating mixture of opinions about him. There are liberals and leftists who find him scarey, violent, and without redeeming qualities; and there are conservatives and republicans who find him an attractive revolutionary priest. I suspect he wouldn't be the first choice for people in times of non-violent struggle. But for those who have lived in times when soldiers are necessary, Che would always be towards the top of the list, not for strategy as much as motivation.

[camero]

19. Freedom Fighter

The CIA didn't want him dead for nothing.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

20. I don't know much about Che..

I actually don't know very much about Che, but I read that same article in the Globe & Mail, and am leaning towards "terrorist".

So that's how I voted. :)

[snoochie]

21. Subscription only

What a drag.

[Bridget Burke]

31. You read one article in a conservative Canadian newspaper...

Now you're an expert.

Several excellent biographies came out in the last few years. Find at least one & start reading.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

33. Dude, I don't have that much time!

And frankly, I could care less about Che Guevara.

(Globe & Mail isn't definitively "conservative", by the way, although this article probably was.)

[Kire]

24. I'll be looking for this thread on The Right Society

http://forums.therightsociety.com/default.aspx?f=22

[Wat_Tyler]

28. I've never had a thread over there, or at CU, as far as I know.

[JimmyJazz]

29. I voted for selfish ideologue - you could add

something of a womanizer to the list as well. I thought he was a pretty good guy until I read the description of him shooting a deserter. It wasn't so much that he shot the guy, it was the coldness with which he later described the event that chilled me.

[XNASA]

32. Hey man, you're blowin' my mind.

When I retreat into the Lounge, I don't want to have to make these kinds of decisions. Especially on a Monday. :freak:

There is no good and evil Everyone's in it for themselves. You know that. Jeesh. :eyes:

I vote, Selfish Ideologue.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. Other: not sure but certainly not a terrorist. (nt)

[Johnny 99]

36. I have to agree with that

He did certainly have an ego larger than Nader's, but it's hard to not like a guy that helped overthrow that fucker Batista.