I'm a first year law student.........

[Merusault]

Help. (Anyone who has been to law school knows what I mean).

[Taylor Mason Powell]

1. Breathe. Relax.

Just make sure you get the basic concepts down and you'll be all right. I just graduated law school and I really enjoyed it.

Like everything else in life, it's all about your attitude.

Good luck!

[Merusault]

3. Attitude

Keeping a positive attitude might be the toughest part of it for me. But so far I seem to be doing allright.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Vocabulary. Learning the jargon was one of the toughest things.

Once you get that down it really isn't so bad; it's actually pretty interesting when you get used to it. But I graduated 23 years ago so maybe that initial sense of OH MY GOD WHAT DID I GET MYSELF INTO has dulled somewhat with time.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Been there. Done that.

It's overwhelming. But it feels so good when it's over.

[Indiana_Dem]

4. Same with becoming an RN. eom

[harrison]

5. Approach it like a job. Study every day. See if you can get

your hands on a couple of skinnies and start using them in conjunction with your classes. That worked for me. Also, if you are having trouble with any legal concepts, try to find some books from a Bar Review course. After I finished law school and was studying for the bar, I wished I had had those bar review books during my first year. They can simplify some of the legal concepts.

[Hepburn]

8. LOL....remember the BIG DEAL on...

...proximate cause??? Like weeks of this in tort class??? And BAR-BRI had some little chart on it that took about 2 seconds to understand! Man, you are totally correct on some of the bar review materials. LOL, I got so sick of hearing about Palsgraf vs the Long Island Railroad. I think I could brief that case in my sleep!

Also: If anyone is stuck on anything and is in law school, it looks like there are a few of us that have been there and done that. I am sure we would be up to answering questions. I know I would. Bet most of us feel this way.

[Hepburn]

7. Yep, been there and done that...

...long, long ago. This, too, will pass. And so will you. Seems like a mountain right now, yes? But go to court someday and look around and notice that those people at counsel table and the one the bench went to law school and managed to pass the bar. Some of them are not too bright and have no clue what they are doing - unfortunately it is usually the one sitting on the bench that represents this group most perfectly. If they got through law school and passed the bar, then so can you. Any time you think that you are overwhelmed, take a trip down to your local court and you will feel better about your chances of making it thru all of this.

Good luck!!!!!!!!

[BQueen]

13. No Kidding!

I used to run the intern program at our office and can't count the number of times one of them would turn to me in court and say "Well, after seeing that idiot, I feel much better about my chances...."

as for judges, don't get me started....

[Hepburn]

21. Unbelievable what you can see...

...when you watch the "bad" attorneys in court. LOL, I remember when I was a new admittee, I asked a friend of mine, who was an outstanding trial lawyer, to point me in the direction of some of the worst attorneys that he knew. And he busted up because he realized why I wanted the names - you learn more watching the bad ones and what NOT to do! Wow, did that prevent me from making some HORRIBLE mistakes!

Yep, and don't get me started on judges either....wow.....!!!

[Lex]

9. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Keep reminding yourself of that.

Work hard.

Don't listen to other students complain and bitch all the time.

Find some time, even just a little, for yourself so that you don't get totally lost in madness of the first year.

[Bake]

10. Keep up. Read the cases. Don't be intimidated.

And oh yeah -- get the outlines: Gilbert's or Emmanuel. The profs hate 'em, but they wrote the darn things. And they can bail you out in a jam.

First year is the worst. Get past that, and it gets better.

Bake, Esq.

[BQueen]

11. Depending on the Prof...

what we called "the shield method" can help - volunteer when you know what you're talking about and you're less likely to be called on involuntarily and more likely to get slack if they catch you unprepared. (Worked with one of the legendary hard-asses at my school)

Keep your perspective - it's not as hard as it initially appears, it's just a new way of learning (diff from undergrad, anyway) - I caught on quick, but everyone else caught up by 2nd year. People tended to know within 2-4 weeks if it really wasn't for them. Figure out how you learn best and work within that structure (for ex: I seem to have to write things down to get it in my head, so outlining WAS my study) If you are more aural, eg, make tapes of your outlines and play over and over (even during sleep, if you like)

Recognize that abusive profs are just doing to others what was done to them, odds are because they don't know any better. Karma will get them (one of mine blew his fly out while laughing at a student - I'll never forget it...) Always annoyed me that they wasted my time and money yelling at people who were unprepared....

Be wary of commercial study aids - ask students who've had your prof before which, if any, helps, to avoid over-spending. I always learned the subject better by making my own - even if it was by adapting a commercial outline. (If the prof wrote it, however, buy it...) I saw any number of big-money folks make fools out of themselves relying on commercial outlines - when the prof was practically lying in wait to trip them on it. ("Oh, you got that out of the Nutshell, didn't you, Mister _____")

Check out the Lawyers Guild student organization for other liberals, and that should help you get some contact with 2nd and 3rd year students who can give you some extra insight on your profs/classes. I must admit I only liked about 20% of my law school class (80s, largely greed is good, LA Law inspired folks whom I'm sure are good Repugs now), but those I liked, I really enjoyed knowing, and many of those I still keep in touch with.

Good Luck!

[Hepburn]

24. OMG....

....do you have some of this nailed so perfectly. I was an outliner and nearly 30 years later, for the profs who are still there (very few now), I was told recently that people are still selling the outlines I made - updated here and there - but still for sale. I used to come home and type my notes into an outline. LOL....hate to mention it, but on a Selectric typewriter!

I would add: Get into a good study group and and also learn to use the "legalese" lingo real quick...but not too overboard. Another clue - learn all the elements of EVERYTHING. That is why I think my outlines are still for sale - on anything I had all the elements listed and some sentence/phrase to remember them by - and the dirtier the better!

Whoa...I have not thought about this stuff for years!

[onebigbadwulf]

12. As a first year med student ... F- you in advance

That is all.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. What a very Republican thing to say.

Downright Freeper, even. Some statistics: About 90,000 people die every year as a result of some form of medical negligence, which is twice as many as die in car accidents. So why should the medical profession be protected from the consequences of their negligence when no other group or profession is? And even so, more than 80% of all medical malpractice cases result in defense verdicts. So, you ask, why are malpractice premiums so high? Because the damn insurance companies are gouging doctors to make up for the fact that they invested heavily in the bond market and their shareholders aren't getting as rich as they'd like. So they're trying to make it up from their policy holders and falsely blame malpractice litigation.

I learned 20 years ago that everybody hates lawyers until they need one themselves. You might need one badly someday. And why assume that this law student is going to be a personal injury lawyer (like our VP candidate, John Edwards, who also did med/mal cases)? Maybe he/she wants to handle civil rights cases like Morris Dees -- a true hero, IMO. Even though he's a lawyer.

[onebigbadwulf]

27. In response to all the flamers...

I don't want any responses to this because I've had this argument a thousand times before. But here are some things to think about with regard to malpractice.





1. No one is perfect. No amount of education or punishment will change that. Why don't Good Samaritan laws apply inside the hospital or surgical theater as well as outside?

2. Why should a bank account be punished for a mistake? If it was indeed negligence put the LICENSE at risk, not the food for someone's family. (Contrary to popular belief, not all doctors are rich)

3. When something bad happens, everyone in the room gets served, not just the negligent party.

4. I've been a lifelong dem, but the relentless doctor bashing I get from you guys makes me double think my loyalty.

5. If you think you can attain a high number of perfect doctors and not pay insane costs, you're in a dream world.

6. There shouldn't even be lawyers involved with malpractice. Litigation should be run by governmental agencies.

7. We are less likely to go into life-saving / high-risk specialties like emergency medicine, ob-gyn, and surgery because of insurance companies (both malpractice and patient) and fears of being sued.

8. Try and ask yourself, as a dem, what is the best way to go about this issue so that it benefits everyone? (Hint: the answer is not monetary)

9. Thanks for reading

10. Don't respond.

[ropi]

33. i know you said dont respond..but

you left yourself open for that one.... democrat, republican, independant, socialist...hell, anyone would have questioned you.

You don't have anyone to blame, but yourself. To be direct, you are are not anyone's victim in the thread or the argument..be they raving democrat or republican...

[ropi]

17. that was cruel

ouch!

since we're gonna throw around studies and degree seeking levels...as a 3rd year Phd student.... that's a rather intriguing comment you made. I say this because every year I assist students who wish to apply to med school with their essays and every year I read the same thing, which more or less comes down to ...i wanna go to med school because i have a desire to help assist people with their healing... after a bit of joking and talking...i usually discover that they go there for the $. Seems that by your post...and your fear of future law suits... are $'s your goal too?

oh, and to add to ocelot's posting above... you could combine law school and med school... i hear that pays even better.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

18. And when you get sued, I suppose you'll be representing yourself then?

:eyes:

[Hepburn]

26. I guess you did not hear...

...that there are some attys out there that actually do med mal defense. You know, save the butts of some MD who totally screwed up. And...guess what? No plaintiff's suit would get off the ground unless a member of your profession is willing to testify against some MD who he opines screwed up big time. So blame your own profession for eating their own. Most of these experts do this for the money, big money. Get it?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

14. Sure. No problem. Quit. Don't go into the evil empire.

Grow your hair, paint, sing, dance naked.

Anything.

Just enjoy the life you have before you destroy it all with the dark side.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

22. Oh shut up, ya damn hippie!!

I'm kidding, but seriously - who do you think fights for your right to dance naked?

Who fights for the rights of the poor, for minorities, for people who've been beaten by cops or oppressed by fundamentalist wackos?

What if you got arrested?
What if you went into business and your partners dicked you over?
What if your vote wasn't counted?
What if you were gay and you wanted to make sure your partner was taken care of when you died?

Who do you turn to in these situations? Because I somehow don't think dancing naked's gonna help much.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

23. Helps me. I could give a shit about all those things

They are just things.

I turn to myself.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

25. Well good luck to you!

But my point is simply that some lawyers actually do help people. It's not all corporate mergers and tax shelters, you know...

As a (very soon to be) member of the legal profession, I feel the need to challenge those who would refer to lawyers as "the dark side."

Remember that one of the most reliably liberal organizations in this country is the American Bar Association.


ON EDIT: Civil rights are "just things?"

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

34. Nevermind

I guess we will discuss this when you have practiced a while. See if you feel the same way.

Seriously, good luck on your career.

[AngryAmish]

16. Learn to take the tests

All tests in law school is just vomiting information back at the teacher. Get some outlines from previous years and use them as a backbone for your outlines. Better yet, sweet-talk some members of the opposite sex for their outlines of the current year (it works).

Choose your study partners carefully. On balance, good looking members of the opposite sex are better (unless you are gay). Trust me.

[WindRavenX]

19. I will pray for you

Stay sane. Drink coffee. Sleep!

[Merusault]

29. Thanks.

I appreciate it.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

20. Lots of really great advice on this thread.

I hope you're taking it down and outlining it carefully!! :-)

[Merusault]

28. Thanks for the advice everyone

It's nice to hear from people who have gone through the same thing.

[worksux]

30. none of my beeswax, but where are you in school?

[Raven]

31. Hmmm...let's see, you are less than a month into this...

yup, that's about the time I panicked...I had a kid in first grade and went to law school nights...it was overwhelming. My advice is to put your head down and brief those cases...don't use the shortcuts... if your can survive the first year, the rest is easy. But you really have to pour it on this year. Don't worry if you don't get it at first, nobody does. You will slowly develop a legal mind and soon it will become second nature. Good luck! I know what you are going through and, believe me, you will survive! :-)

[geek tragedy]

32. Get away from campus as much as possible.

Especially when you're studying for finals--there is nothing more stressful than being around 200 other stressed-out law students.

[Surf Cowboy]

35. OK, time for some practical advice.

1) Read the material, period. You will learn far more if you havea actually read the opinions. Furthermore, the repetitive reading will also help you to think and write like a lawyer.

2) Get at least 2 separate outlines for each course. One Emmanuel, one Nutshell, whatever. You will use these (along with your own notes) to create your own outline about 3 weeks before the end of term. As stated previously, the Bar-Bri or PMI bar-study books are a goldmine. Excellent. They will help tremendously.

3) Take good notes. Not copious, just good. Remember, you already have read the material and have 2 outlines. You just need to jot down what is being covered in class, so that you will know what to study when the time comes.

4) Participate in class. I cannot stress this enough. Far better to learn how to apply your new knowledge under classroom circumstances than on an exam. Enjoy it. It's an adventure, and to a certain extent a mental exercise or workout.

5) Make your own personal outline. Use your notes to create bullets, then use your outlines and case law to fill in the specifics. Do this yourself. No help, no teams. By reading and writing all the material yet another time, you will seriously learn it.

6) Study hard your first year. The second year is all beer-and-softball. The Bar exam primarily tests the course materials of year one. The MBE tests exclusively on these subjects, and this will count for 50% or more of your Bar exam total. Very important to understand your first year courses.

7) Get neither too frightened nor too excited. Be cool, as Elmore Leonard might put it. Relax. It's not that big a deal. Remember, once you learn to think like a lawyer, all law is very easy to learn. It is, in a way, similar to math, in that all fields of law have certain common characteristics. You will learn it, believe it or not.

8) Do not listen to the people in your class. They truly cannot be trusted. You don't want to be around them near exam time, and you certainly should RACE to the library whenever your class gets a research assignment. Some asshole law students have been known to hide an A.2d or two in order to gain advantage. You will come into contact with more assholes than a proctologist. That's OK, though, as it is good practice for life after law school.

9) If you need help, ask us. Just like you did today. Now that's smart.