About the anti-sports attitude from some people on DU:

[SmileyBoy]

I've been reading a couple threads in GD that reek of an anti-sports attitude. I'm talking about people saying like "It's the 'bread and circuses' like the Romans had" or that it's "the opiate of the masses".

And I really don't like it at all. No - As a matter of fact, I fucking HATE it. The way that some ELITIST SNOB DUers can look down their noses at people who enjoy watching sports like they think we've been brainwashed by modern American culture, or something. I've seen a lot of posts by people on DU who claim that because somebody enjoys watching sports means that their somehow politically complacent. Like that they are following everything the right-wing media tells them to. I think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard come from a fellow liberal (And I have heard it today). I manage to donate to the Kerry campaign and to DU, and I listen to Air America, and I'm a sports freak. Like one fan said in reply to one of these idiotic threads, "I'm capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time."

Lemme tell some of you people this: Sports have been around in all human societies for thousands of years, and they will exist in human societies or thousands of years to come. The cultural love of sports is NOT something unique to the United States in the 20th and 21st centuries.

I feel personally offended by these fallacious arguments, because I'm a hardcore football fan, but I'm also a member of a college football team. the mere notion that I can't have an original political thought in my head just because I love football and basketball and hockey is audacious. There's liberals on my team, and there's conservatives on my team. It doesn't matter what our politics are, because we're out there to WIN FOOTBALL GAMES. Discussing politics is completely verboten on the team.

Just because I was a jock in high school doesn't mean I'm dumb to what's going around me. Ask a bunch of college and/or pro football fans, and I bet that around half of them will say that they hate *, and half will say they love him. Kind of similar to the general population. People that are into sports are NOT POLITICAL RETARDS!!!

I had the misfortune of reading a post by an otherwise very nice DUer (whom I have met in person) say some very hurtful and offensive things about sports in general in one of these idiotic threads. I'd like to think that most people who are not sports fans don't generally look their noses down on us sports fans, but I might be more wrong than I think.

I'm gonna work for the NDSU Bison football staff, cheer my ass off for my Minnesota Vikings, Minnesota Timberwolves and UND Sioux hockey, and I'm gonna donate to Kerry, listen to Air America and log on to DU, and there's not a DAMN thing any of you elitist snobs can say you can say to make me feel like I'm not as much of a liberal as you are!!!

Thank you.

[Jim Sagle]

1. This belongs in the lounge.

[keepleft]

2. I'm just a new kid, but,

I don't have problems with people who play sports.

I have problems with sports because I had dreadful experiences with it as a child in PE. I'm also not a competitive person and I can't really understand that mindset.

But, I know a lot of jocks who are really smart and interesting.

[K-W]

3. I dont hate sports, but I do hate the approach to sports of most americans

that enforces the us versus them mentality, encourages group association, and encourages uber conmpetiveness and masculinity.

[UCLA Dem]

5. I understand that, but there a lot of positive things that

come from sports as well. As with most things, it must be taken in moderation.

[K-W]

12. I agree, I am a big sports fan and I was an athlete in school. EOM

[Courtesy Flush]

32. Sports are too passive

Of the millions who enjoy sports, only a percentage of a percentage actually get off their butts and participate. In our society, people enjoy sports vicariously, while inhaling beer and pizza. All well and good, if the big game is on, but get off the sofa now and then and do something.

I've never had an intereat in spectator sports, probably because I'm handicapped, but I do PARTICIPATE in a couple of sports, and I'm starting to get into bodybuilding and fitness.

I see similarities between sport fans and reality TV fans. The people in my office have become fanatics about reality TV, and know everything about Jill, Doug, and Raven (I'm making up names, here). They're very much like sport fans who know the stats of their favorite players. And their level of participation is exactly the same.

So I make a distinction between real sport fans, and TV watchers. The real fans get off the sofa now and then.

[Joe Chi Minh]

48. Jocks

As a rule, you're more likely to find real mean-spiritedness among studious librarians or ivory-tower academics (among the good types, of course) than among sportsmen or jocks, as you call them. From their experience, Jewish commentators on the subject state that the most evil of all their persecutors and murderers they identified were not the louts, but the little functionaries, like Eichmann.

I seem to remember in a TV programme about his abduction in Argentina, before spiriting him back to Israel to meet his fate, one of his Israeli captors saying that while they held him in a room there, he all but put up is hand to ask permission to go the toilet!

I never ever saw a jock in a school here bully younger kids, only a big lad you'd think should have been a jock, but wasn't.

[UCLA Dem]

4. I come from a liberal sports-loving family myself.

The 2 are mutually exclusive. Its just plain stupid to think you can't be liberal and like sports.

[mark414]

6. amen

though i will admit, today i wish i didn't like sports after the packers embarrassing loss

[Qanisqineq]

11. I will second your "amen" except...

for the Packers losing part. As a Vikings fan, I thought it was funny -- and I HATE the Bears! :hi:

[Tweed]

16. As a Bears fan...

I hate the Vikings and the Packers. Today was a good day.

[angee_is_mad]

7. Damn!!!!!

Calm down young man, but there tends to be an elitist attitude on here at times. Just ignor them and keep hope alive.

We need that energy to kick bush out of office.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

8. Hey everyone's different

Some like sports, I know I do, Some don't. There are elitists in every crowd. I don't lose sleep over people who don't have the same interests as me.

[grace0418]

9. I'm not a huge sports fan but...

I can get into it on occasion. My husband loves sports, and it doesn't bother me at all. I do think some people take it way too far, but most people can just enjoy them for what they are.

[ronabop]

10. Hm...

"Sports have been around in all human societies for thousands of years, and they will exist in human societies or thousands of years to come"

So has murder. Duration of existence is not a reason to continue down the same path.

Eventually, most societies have realized that sponsoring violence as a form of entertainment was bad.

I have no beef with non-violent sports, though. Anything where a quadroplegic can compete seems very sporting to me.

Of course, if you do think that our "men in pads" really have something to offer in the way of physical ability, stamina, and strength, there's always the army. If they're so wonderful at what they do with their bodies, let them enlist.

-Bop

[AngryAmish]

36. Wanna come to the cockfights with me?

[shimmergal]

38. How do you get that equation "Sports" equals "Violence"?

Yeah, boxing is almost sheer violence, and the way football and hockey are played is often violent (but they don't _have_ to be.) But baseball? Basketball? Golf? Track?

Are you seriously suggesting we should confine our interest in sports to those in which a quadraplegic has an even chance? Let's see; that leaves (maybe) chess. Hmmm...

As for joining the army instead--actually, I think sports interests drain off a lot of aggressive impulses that would otherwise come out in domestic abuse, random violence, etc.

And I'm not a sports fan, much less a willing participant. For sheer terror, few things could match the fear I felt in h.s. volleyball games when the ball was speeding toward me! But why should I deny others who do enjoy it their fun?

[Surf Cowboy]

41. You have to work at it.

[Djinn]

13. I admit to having a slightly narky view re sports

although I'm coming around - my other half loves sport and would pretty much watch competetive fly racing if it existed and he's no thicky when it comes to politics, so I've had to re-evaluate my ideas a wee bit.

Although where I live being "anti" sport is like blasphemy so I think many people don't so much "hate" it they just hate the overload of it - for example in a half hour news program the first story is often sports related and the entire last third is sport - once you take out weather and commercial breaks there's not a lot of news left!

[UdoKier]

14. I don't think that about sports at all.

That being said, I find football to be one of the most boring spectator sports of all time. The game goes on for hours, and it's all stop, go, stop, go. Infuriatingly boring. I'll never understand the cult of football in this country. I enjoy baseball more, and then basketball a bit more than that (especially because basketball is held indoors, and it's always cold at night games her in San Fran.)

As someone who grew up not interested in sports, I kinda understand both sides. I was 6'2", 240 lbs, and people were always on my case to play football or basketball. I didn't mind shooting hooops in the backyard for fun, but I never have been interested in playing competitively, and sports on TV just bore the hell out of me. I was called names and given all kinds of shit for not participating. I had my hobbies I was into, mostly doing landscape work. But, NOOOO, in Texas, you have to join the cult of football. So I can kind of understand how some people who were either bad at sports or uninterested in them and got hassled for it might resent and bash them.

But I disagree that they are an opiate or whatever.

However, I do think our society does place FAR too much importance on them, especially when players get millions of dollars at the pro level, and when colleges turrn sports into a cash cow. I think it's really ridiculous. But I'd be very sad if we lived in a society without sports. Can you imagine it?

Anyway, I've seen plenty of sports-oriented threads, and I'm sure there are plenty of fans here. I don't think the anti-sports attitude is the norm.

And many of our country's great athletes have been liberals, so don't listen to anyone who says otherwise!

[Trish]

15. Elitism indeed

yeah,
that's kinda stupid to put down liberals who like sports
not all people are the same

[Eye and Monkey]

17. Well, I say "Thanks" for playing college ball. It can be damn fun -

- to watch.

That "thanks" doesn't really apply to the pros - the money and all. And yes, there's some college players who get the bennies. But it seems that most college players put out alot for little or nothing in the way of benefits.

And yes, as with just about any avocation or interest, there's things to criticize and things to support.

You're not planning on instituting Rollerball as an opiate to the masses are you?

[JSJ]

18. football is a great sport, a great game, but is...

...totally ruined when it becomes 'organized'. At the highschool level, it's fascistic, at college, it's big business, and at the pro level, it's fixed. But in the park, or on the sandlot, it's a thing of beauty.

[AgadorSparticus]

19. i grew up with and enjoy playing and watching sports too.

it is good for character development (you get knocked down, you get up, refocus, and go at it again). hell, there is even a zen to bowling. you plan plan plan and then you LET GO. i am surrounded by few neurotic control freaks who can stand to benefit from this little exercise.

as for sports watching being the "opiate for the masses"....well, it CAN be. and so can movies, music, clubs, bars, THE INTERNET and every other form of entertainment be an opiate for the masses. phtfft on that.

the thing is, some people are so busy taking themselves too seriously to see the FUN in anything. And life is much too short to not have some fun with it.

[miss_kitty]

20. i don't like it that people can't express an 'anti-sports' opinion in your

presence w/o hyper offending you...my comments or the comments of other that are not pro sports are in no way a threat to you, or the enjoyment and thrill you receive playing the game-unless you let it.

Nor have I seen anyone accuse you or any other sport-lovin' DUer of being not liberal, or not politically astute because you enjoy sports. That inference is yours.

Yet in your OP people who express disdain for sports are "ELITIST SNOB DUers." Take a look in the mirror next time you accuse someone around here of that, pal...I saw you freak on a thread about how offended you were about what you perceived as some 'anti-sport' talk-when what it truly was was 'anti corporate-takeover of sport' talk (in the US, mainly).

three things. slow down, suck it up and walk it off.

On Edit: punctuation

[tcfrogs]

33. Check out this response to my golf post yesterday

I'm not mad about it, but this was either accusing me of being a freeper or joking around.

And yes, I know it's only golf...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=1692722&mesg_id=1692739

[EnfantTerrible]

21. Go Vikings

MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL BAAAAAAAABEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!


Tomorrow against the Eagles...

YEAH YEAH YEAH woooooo wooooooooo wooooooooooooooooooo hooooooooooooo


I love my opiates

:smoke:

[Gemini Cat]

22. Sports are great.

They clear your mind and open your eyes and gives your ass good exercise. I highly recommend sports.

[AndyTiedye]

24. Dancing Does All That and More

Stuff the sports! Give some good psytrance and keep it going all night.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. And someone who's in a dance troupe

learns physical fitness, discipline, dependability, putting up with setbacks, coming back from injuries, teamwork, and all the other qualities that are popularly believed to come only from sports.

But you never hear "Let's improve our kids' characters by getting them into dance troupes."

:shrug:

[Gemini Cat]

54. Dance is good as well.

I like sports and I like dance for the same reasons.

[lazarus]

23. The same snobbery

is applied to reality tv. It's depressing, really.

[AndyTiedye]

25. That Isn't the Problem with the Position of Sports in our Society

The biggest problem is that the only place leadership is taught to kids
is on the athletic field, and there only to the best athletes.
The effect of this is painfully obvious if you look around Washington.

[Swamp Rat]

26. Ha! And I was about to post a thread about brainless sports fans, that are

nothing but a bunch of stupid fucks that use up good air and beer, waste server space at DU, etc., but since the New Orleans Saints won I am feeling very magnanimous. ;-)

[trigz]

27. American football and baseball arent' sports, though

If only you people could understand the beauty of football, your national sports would die a sudden death... :)

[Huckebein the Raven]

44. What's your favorite team ?

I'm an Arsenal fan and a Barca fan.

Also, I like American football as well (Go Titans)

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

28. you propagate the same stereotypes you accuse others of

Why am I elitist because sports bore the living shit out of me?

And how do you know what I think of sports fans?

Some of the best people I know love sports. Some of the best people I know hate sports.

So what?

It's just another frickin' hobby. If you see a thread about it you don't like, click that little box. :shrug:

-Edit for spelling

[Pithlet]

49. It is possible to dislike sports

and not be an elitist snob about it. I don't care if people hate sports, but I do care if they put down others who do. I think that is what the OP was talking about, and I agree.

[Spider Jerusalem]

29. I tend not to like most sports because they bore me.

Also, team loyalty and rivalry are nothing more or less than a substitute for warfare. In this instance, sports seem to provide for most people something which I, as a relatively asocial introvert, don't need. If you think this attitude makes me an "elitist snob", that is your problem, not mine.

[Bridget Burke]

30. As someone who's not much of a jock....

I wonder why people uninterested in sports feel the need to proclaim that fact so energetically. Can't they just devote that energy to something they care about? Lack of interest in anything is, by its very nature--uninteresting. Boring.

I, too, was among the last picked for softball in elementary school. But I got over it.

[LWolf]

31. ?

I don't watch much in the way of "sports" anymore. The American obsession with competition turns me off. Not that I think competition is always bad; it just seems like America has gotten stuck in it; that competition is the only way many Americans know how to deal with any issue.

That doesn't make sports or sports fans "bad" in my eyes; it just means I think that fanaticism of any sort, including for a particular sport, team, etc., is not healthy, and should be tempered by perspective.

That said, when I get to work this morning, I get to point out to my colleagues that I am now 2-0 in the office football pool. ;-)

[commander bunnypants]

34. maybe

zI can be a superrich jock who has no law, rapes, smokes coke and flaunts everything cause I can play with a ball. there are more important things in life.

DDQM

[kodi]

35. nicely said NW. us athletes oft are shunned as testosterone poisoned

yeap, elitist snobs it is, and surprising so since many of the most effete of them on the site are those who would bray about their own examined intellectual lives all the while forgetting what the ancient greeks said about the importance of the union of mind and body.

i gave up on those types in college when as a jock i found out that in debates with all the leftie phonies in my history and economics classes and dorms, i was the only one who had actually read marx's das capital. i would be a rich man today if i had a nickle for each time in college classmates (and a few professors) told me that they were surprised a total jock like me was not dumb.

<surprise surprise>...in a gomer pyle voice.

at heart it is my belief that some on the left can not stand the concept of competition in any form, and athletics is nothing if not competitive.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I don't mind that people like sports...

I like SOME sports myself (just not the ones that are popular in this country.)

It's the over-emphasis on them in this country that drives me up the wall:

The way that high school and college athletes are considered royalty (not only by students, but by faculty and their local media) while the kids in the orchestra or the math club are considered geeks and have to be killed in an accident or something to get their names in the paper.

The way that the emphasis on team sports actually reduces physical fitness among young people, since all the attention and money goes to the jocks and none to improving the overall fitness of all the students.

The way that sports are popularly considered the best way to build character in troubled kids. Recent court cases have shown how you can end up with a superb athlete who is a millionaire but still a street corner punk at heart.

The way that someone will ask to see my newspaper in the coffeeshop, and when I hand them the whole paper, they say, "Oh, no, I just want the sports pages."

The way that kids from poor neighborhoods are encouraged to believe that sports are the only route out of poverty--when in fact, the odds of making a pro team are only slightly better than winning the lottery.

The way that some people--especially men--literally have no topics of conversation except their jobs and sports.

The way that men who don't like sports are treated as less than masculine.

The way that owners of professional sports teams ask for and get public financing, even in cities that are hurting for money, cynically manipulating the emotions of the fans, but ready to leave in a heartbeat if a better offer comes from another city.

[chenGOD]

40. I love sports a lot,but modern sports leagues were invented for one reason

And that was to keep the proleteriat occupied on the weekend so they would have less time to organize themselves. Soccer* leagues in the UK were the beginning of it all, teams were organzied so that the factory workers would spend Sundays watching the match and drinking beer.

I do love sports though, but I prefer playing to watching any time. The only sports I really enjoy watching on TV are soccer and basketball.



*Football really, but I say soccer to take into acount the nature of the board's origins...

[RandomKoolzip]

42. Well, let me tell you WHY *I* hate sports:

1. From an early age, my older brother would force me into playing "football" with him, which basically meant that he would throw the ball at me, I'd catch it, and then he'd tackle me and proceed to beat the shit out of me.

He also loved to play "baseball;" for him, this meant BEANING me in the head with the ball relentlessly (he AIMED for my head) and when I would cry, he'd punch me. If I ever didn't want to "play" these "sports" with him, he'd make fun of me or bully me into it. It was no fun and I was getting hurt all the time.

When we'd lose the ball in the woods, he'd make me go and find it, too. All sports were just an excuse for him to pummel me.

2. When people act like somehow sports fans are being persecuted, I feel like it's on par with Ann Coulter accusing the media of being liberal during one of her many media appearances. Sports are one of the biggest industries in the world, sports stars hold far more sway over the conciousness of our young than politicians or musicians, and we could probably feed a lot of poor people or send a lot of kids to school with the salary of one football player. But instead, we get players going on strike, complaining that their salaries are too low. Forgive me if I don't shed a fuckin' tear for you, bubba.

3. I've always loved music. I was in the marching band in high school. We used to play for the football games. Every time they'd score a touchdown, we'd play a little fanfare for them: you know, the little theme that goes duh duh duh duh-duhduh...CHARGE!

Whenever we'd play the little theme, our team's players would all yell "YOU FAGGOTS!," in unison, at us. Thanks, guys. That's the meaning of school spirit.

4. Being thrown against lockers, getting my body parts grabbed and twisted, getting whipped with towels, getting made fun of for not giving a shit about sports....does that sound like fun? It used to happen to me a lot. You get beat up by people larger than you for not showing the proper enthusiasm for the official state-sanctioned sporting event once too often, and it'll turn you off to sports forever. What if us musicians were to hit you in the head with our guitars and drumsticks for not caring about the release of the new Motorhead album? What if it had been happening for twenty-five years? Bet you wouldn't like music very much.

5. I've seen more people use sporting events as an excuse to behave violently, drunkenly, unitelligently, and menacingly than I'd care to mention. Admit it. You have too.

6. I was working as a cook in Nashville in 2001. My friend Sarah, a wonderful person, friendly with a great sense of humor, was waiting on a table of six men, all of whom were heavy eaters. They seemed to be having a good time, and were getting rowdy. Sarah was extra-super-friendly to them, and gave them great service.

At the end of the meal, one of the men told her, "You gave us great service, but we're not going to tip you, because you didn't tell us the score of the Titans game an the TV over there."

Six guys. No tip. She depended on those tips for a LIVING.

Sarah cried a lot that day.

7. I've heard football players and other jocks brag about raping girls before. About beating up "retards." I've seen them get preferential treatment because of their special status as high school "stars." I've seen one's athletic ability used as a method of ajudging one's place in the social hierarchy far too much. I've had coworkers ask for time off to attend football games, and the managers LET THEM HAVE IT because they were football fans, too. Imagine If I were to ask for time off to shop for drums, or see a local band. Imagine If I asked for time off to attend a showing at an art gallery. Ha! Rejection city!

8. "Elitist?!" As Get Your War On so eloquently spoke, "If being "elitist" simply means not wanting to be the dumbest motherfucker in the room, then call me elitist!"

[Ron Green]

56. I had pretty much the same school experience as you...

regarding sports and playing in the band. However, many years later, those jocks who got all the recognition and girls in HS are hobbling around on their ruined knees....and I'm still playing music!

[primavera]

43. Of course it's not a new development

Just as you say, sports have been around for thousands of years, because for thousands of years, they have reliably been proven over and over again to be a highly effective tool for economic and political elites to keep the less fortunate members of society adequately entertained and distracted from asking those awkward questions about why it is that all of the wealth and power in society rests in the hands of a miniscule minority. Why do you think corporations will shell out money hand over fist for sporting events, but won't support libraries and education? They know perfectly well that the former promotes hard work and team spirit (under the direction of a coach, naturally) which will provide hardworking employees for their companies who will never stop to wonder why it is that they're doing all of the work and making minimum wage, while the executives are off drinking mai tais in Bermuda and raking in all of the profits. Conversely, the latter promotes crtical thinking - never a positive thing for privileged elites wishing to preserve their privileged status quo.

[Shananigans]

45. I'm torn between telling you to stop being a baby...

and telling everyone else to STFU.

Seriously, your rant is a little unnecessary. It seems that so many people on DU have a tendancy to take things personally and overexxagerate them. Don't be one of them.

As for everyone of you enablers out there, I think it's time to stop with the stereotypical "all jocks beat people up so that's why I don't like sports" attitude.

It's not just jocks. The table at the restaurant could just have easily been a bunch of punk rockers. The guy pushing you into a locker could have just as easily been a bully, too fat to play sports. The dude who raped a chick could have just as easily been a gang member, drug addict or straight A band geek.

Stop with the stereotyping. Every day I hear about 10 people on DU get all huffy about generalizing and stereotyping. Yet every day, those same people do the same thing, just about other topics.

Let's all be friends. Make love, not war. Do jumping jacks, not jump on jack.

Peace.

[fishnfla]

46. I dont get it either. Cant we all get along?

There are some topics that come up repeatedly on DU that I do not approve of ( I wont even mention them--see how that works, guys?) but I aint gonna bust into the thread to express my displeasure or start a thread that says "am I the only person who HATES xyz?"

Every year about this time we see the "I HATE football" threads and I simply dont get that perspective at all, because I tend to reserve hatred for things like child abuse and terrorism that are truly deserving of such an emotion. The expression "I hate whatever" is vastly overwrought and overutilized, IMO

Last year MrsGrumpy had a football thread going when some DUer jumped in with a vehement anathema against the sport, the seething hatred was so virulent and was inflicted upon other DUers merely participating in a common, everyday, harmless discussion. Shit man, this is the lounge, take that attitude to freeperville or a klan meeting...

[tsakshaug]

47. If it wasn't for sports

I would not have been able to afford to go to college. I was one of the lucky few who received a sports scholarship.
I am not saying push sports so you can go to college, because very few can get a ride. I do not care for pro sports that much.
My kids are involved in Little league baseball, one has the talent, if he chooses to develop it, to play at least at the high school level. I will not push him, but will encourage and support whatever decision he makes with baseball.
I would prefer they do more lifetime activities, and do push them more in hiking/ paddling.

[MsConduct]

50. In the big picture of life....

sports are pretty low on the list of what's really important. I do love baseball, but it's not the be all and end all of my life.


Peace

[TXlib]

51. I thought this thread was going to be a spoof

on the "About the anti-christian attitude from some people on DU" theme.

[Jim Sagle]

52. Sports ain't nuthin' but shit.

[BiggJawn]

53. Guess you're ready for some football, huh?

Wouldn't do any good to say "It's just a damn GAME, f'krystsake!", would it?

[Anaxamander]

55. Very well said my friend.

I'm a hardcore Braves fan, Falcons fan, and UGA fan from South Georgia, but also a hardcore Democrat, hardcore liberal and a political junkie. To quote Bill Clinton, the two "are not opposing values."

[Ron Green]

57. Who was it that defined American football as:

"Twenty-two men desperately in need of rest, surrounded by seventy thousand people desperately in need of exercise."

[Maleficus]

58. People really said stuff like that here?

I would've never thought. :(

Anyways, I go to one of the best liberal arts colleges in the country, and I love sports. My GPA is a solid 3.2 cumulative. I'm an avid football, baseball, hockey, rugby, and lacrosse fan!

Who would think that just because you're a sports fan, you're dumb?

[5thGenDemocrat]

59. And, just to add to some of the positives about sports

My alma mater, Central Michigan University, beat Rush Limbaugh's alma mater, Southeast Missouri State, 44-21 this weekend.
John
It might be the only game we win this year (aaah, we'll probably beat Eastern Michigan), but it was a good one.
As always, Fire Up Chips!!