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I am so proud of this: 1st Amendment Rant(in defense of)

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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:59 PM
Original message
I am so proud of this: 1st Amendment Rant(in defense of)
A woman on one of the Message boards I frequent posted a picture of hundreds of military men and women at a military meeting/rally/whatever, and freaks out when the ACLU says THAT IS THE GOVERNMENT SAYING WE HAVE A STATE RELIGION!! She goes on to say "Fuck the ACLU." I say, The ACLU needs a freaking MEDAL for standing up for the 1ST AMENDMENT!!
Here was my reply.
If this is an organize meeting of the military, and this is an ORGANIZED PRAYER, then YES...OUR government is saying this is a CHRISTIAN NATION, and THEY CANNOT DO THAT AS SPECIFIED IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
Religion has no place in government, as we learn from the huge fumbles of the Catholic Church back during Rome's hay day with the whole Inquisition nonsense. And also from the days in England when they kicked the Puritans out of the country. We are a really good example of it too. The bible was used as an excuse so they could keep slaves. Common Sense is needed in government. Not religion. Religion is there to control people and tell them how to live their lives. We have freedom OF and with that has to come freedom FROM religion as well. This country is out of control trying to tell people how they can and cannot live their lives: IE the proposed, and dead, Gay Marriage Amendment. With all the other problems we have in this country, why is this even on our radar?
And before you start calling me an atheist, I am a Christian. But I also believe that Thomas Jefferson had a really good reason for putting Freedom of Religion in the FIRST amendment. I think he knew how crazy people get when it comes to their religion. Example: The Salem Witch Trials. Modern day examples of really bad byproducts of Religion in Government: Women in Burkas(something Muhammad never intended. He in fact was a feminist in his day), beheadings and limbs chopped off in Saudi Arabia as an excuse for a justice system, The Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.
With initiatives on the floor of congress to put us women back into the kitchen(An overly zealous republican has put an initiative on the floor to say that women are subservient to men, driving us back to before the 50s, and saying sure, go ahead, beat the hell out of your wives. You're a man, it's your right), I think we really need to clear our heads and realize that religion is a PERSONAL THING, not a GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED thing.


I just wanted to share,
Duckie
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Have you gotten a reply?
Or has she just written you off as a godless, heathen despite your saying you're a Christian?
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I literally posted this ten minutes ago...
Nothing yet.
Duckie
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. organized religion is the root of.......
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 01:17 PM by madmom
all evil, it is nothing more than a crutch for those who are to weak to live their lives the way morality dictates( no you don't have to be a christian to have morals).More lives have been lost and wrongs have been done in the name of religion than for any other reason. I will hold my life up to many so-called christians and see who's the better person, can all christians or people of religion say the same? I know a lot can but if you call yourself religious you better be able to stand up to the scrutiny,ie George W. Bush, if that is what being a christian is all about count me out!!!!
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. not religion
IGNORANCE is the root of evil. You don't have to be religous to be a stupid bigoted prick. Im a christian, and damn proud of it; if you're an atheist, cool thats fine. but im getting FUCKING tired of being told all this shit about how religous people are racist homophobes. that is the DEFINITION of prejudice; if you want to be liberal,hell if you want to be AMERICAN step one is to accept others beliefs right off the bat. criticise elements of it; thats fine. say that this one persons beliefs are wrong, and give examples, thats fine too. but to claim this, that is no different than saying "them niggers all steal stuff". you show me 5 completely moral atheists, and ill show you 5 others who are total fuckwads. being an atheist does not make you moral anymore than being a christian makes you moral


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. please reread the post....
no where did I say religious people where racist homophobes,I am an American and step one is read the first amendment, it gives me the right NOT to accept what others say at face value, it gives me the right to question what I feel isn't right. Maybe religious indoctrination has taught people to read what is not really there. I did not say I was atheist I said I don't believe in organized religion.
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. forgive me
for reading stuff into it that wasn't there (ive been in several long discussions about this stuff this weekend, so im kind of primed for it); but still, saying ORGANIZED RELIGION is the root of evil is patently ridiculus. sure there are christians that accept their religion without question. im not arguing that. but those are the same people who are ignorant about everything else. as i said, i am a christian, a Lutheran in particular; we are the original definition of the questioning of religion. i question my faith all the time; any real believer must question their faith. i look past the bad things that religion has done and look at the base message of christ, i.e., love they neighbor. thats it. i have no problem with those who oppose organized religion, but implying that all those who support organized religion are brainwashed is ridiculus. sorry if im hostile, but there seems to be this idea that christian=fundie on this board, and this seems to result into random grenades thrown at us liberal christians

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Both of your points, though make a hell of a lot of sense...
And Religion and Ignorance are the roots of evil.
Duckie
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. a combination, yes
that i will readily agree to

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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gryphon Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just thought I'd wander in and add my two cents.
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 09:48 PM by gryphon
It really pertanes more to the posts further down, but this is always a great reply for folks who are sure their religious slice of pie tastes better than anyone elses.

Mahatma Gandhi is one of the most respected leaders of modern history. A Hindu, Gandhi nevertheless admired Jesus and often quoted from the Sermon on the Mount. Once when the missionary E. Stanley Jones met with Gandhi he asked him, "Mr. Gandhi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?"

Gandhi replied, "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Apparently Gandhi's rejection of Christianity grew out of an incident that happened when he was a young man practising law in South Africa. He had become attracted to the Christian faith, had studied the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, and was seriously exploring becoming a Christian. And so he decided to attend a church service. As he came up the steps of the large church where he intended to go, a white South African elder of the church barred his way at the door. "Where do you think you're going, kaffir?" the man asked Gandhi in a belligerent tone of voice.

Gandhi replied, "I'd like to attend worship here."

The church elder snarled at him, "There's no room for kaffirs in this church. Get out of here or I'll have my assistants throw you down the steps."

From that moment, Gandhi said, he decided to adopt what good he found in Christianity, but would never again consider becoming a Christian if it meant being part of the church.

How we treat those others tells people MORE about what we believe, and what following Jesus means to us than all tracts we pass out, or all the fine semons we deliver.

-Gryphon
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realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. i love ghandi
and his acceptance and admiration of other faiths. it kind of reminds me of a book i read called the Life Of Pi, in which one character is muslim, christian, and jewish at the same time

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. That is such a great story.
That man is truly admireable, and so right on about what he thought of Christians. If Christ as he was back in the day: nomadic, scruffy, probably a little worse for the wear because of all the walking, he'd probably be turned away at the door of most churches in this country because he doesn't "look right." Makes me wanna barf, but it is in fact the truth. Sunday isn't about the sabbath and worship anymore. It's a fashion show and gossip session, not for everyone, but close.
Duckie
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