I am taking Zoloft. Is there a herbal equivalent?

[Deja Q]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

My anxiety level is down and my ADD still exists.

I definitely want to go the holstic route.

Does anybody take herbs'n'things that are for generalized anxiety and/or ADD?

Thanks MUCH!!

[Gryffindor_Bookworm]

1. if you go that route

do NOT, please, please, please do NOT just stop taking Zoloft and start taking herbs. You *must* go off Zoloft slowly or you will crash like you can't even fathom right now. Take half as much for two weeks, then half of that amount for two weeks.

I don't know about herbs, but I do know that you shouldn't take both at once.

Wish I was more help.

[onebigbadwulf]

2. Yeah...

it's called exercise and organization.

And they're both free.

[Deja Q]

3. I exercise... (lost 8 pounds already)

Organization is to me what politeness is to you?

[onebigbadwulf]

8. Sorry but depression, anxiety, ADD... it's all

way over diagnosed.

Anti-depressants are pretty much active placebos. They make you conspitated and you think you're cured. Your chances of comitting suicide are about 80 times greater when on an SSRI. Have your doctor prescribe sugar pills instead.

Anxiety is self-induced unless you're the extreme case where you're crippled in fear to leave the house or speak to people. It's your laziness fighting your responsibility that makes you anxious. I have it too, but I deal by addressing the stressors.

ADD another excuse to not pay attention and to take prescribed doses of cocaine (Aka Ritalin). An attention span isn't a magical thing that we are all blessed with - it's a muscle that needs to be trained. You attack it by forcing yourself to read / study / whatever for longer and longer periods of time.

[skooooo]

9. Somehow I doubt...

..you are quite the expert on everything you are making yourself out to be.

[hyphenate]

19. Depression is real

I hope you don't think you can literally "think away" depression. It's had me in its grips for about 9 months ago, and it's not lessening by any wishful thinking.

Some people just don't want to admit that many illnesses are real, despite the truth and evidence. One of my cardiologists said he didn't believe in fibromyalgia, but tell that to me when I can barely walk on a given day.

Herbs and other such remedies can work if it's a mild condition. St. John's Wort is good for very mild depressions. But when you're in a several, major depressive episode, the only thing that will help is real medicine under real circumstances.

[HuckleB]

21. Thanks for spreading misinformation.

How very helpful.

[Deja Q]

27. You've never met me in person. But I do agree with you in that

They are overdiagnosed.

My anxiety problem is so bad that when I go to a bar, people feel intimidated by me. (friends have told me this firsthand) And I DO fear going outside the house, I do have real troubles speaking to people. (oh, my internet persona is radically different than my real world persona...)

Is my being intimidated by people, who in turn intimidates them mere laziness?!

I was prescribed with ritalin once. It had the opposite effect.

Per 'muscle', you must be speaking in metaphor. Though I see the analogy. And I have tried to study manuals and books. I can spend a day trying to read one chapter and it doesn't sink in. (I learn by doing, not by reading. That's the best way to sum it up. Some people are this way. But the norm is for people to learn by reading. I am unable to learn via reading. It is not anxiety, it is fact. This is not laziness in the slightest and I'm insulted that you say it is. )

Are you a doctor?

[MrSandman]

41. Find someone competent in...

Neurolinguistic Programming.

And discontinuing SSRI's AMA is one way to even more greatly increase a feeling of hopelessness...and suicidal ideation.

http://www.holistic-online.com/hol_neurolinguistic.htm

[Unperson 309]

42. Hey! NOT True!!

ADD and aDHD may be "overdiagnosed" today, but the DO exist!

I was a "good" child, I wanted to please, I was MOTIVATED to "be good" to sit still, to listen, to want to be like my elders. I tried to be a good student. I remember my childhood and I *desperately* envied the kids who got good grades. My own grades were D's and F's.

My parents took me to a child psychologist. He did testing. I was *convinced* I was mentally retarded. The IQ test came back 168! Clearly I wasn't "working up to my potential"!

I TRIED to pay attention in class! I even tried sticking sewing needles into my fingers so as NOT to be *distracted* in cvlass. I spent HOURS at night doing homework... or trying to! My mind was like a greased ferret. I could NOT stay focused! I tried everything I could think of and failed and failed and failed!

For DECADES I was absolutely convinced it was MY fAULT for being lazy, stupid, mentally ill, insane, every vile accusation I could think of levelled at myself BY myself! Oh, the teachers didn't have to upbraid me, I did well enough on myself!

I went through school in the 1950'sd and 1960's when there WAS no such thing as ADD. No medication, no help, nothing but the accusations!

Well guess what? It was NOT a failure of will! I had enough will to fuel a fucking FOOTBALL TEAM and it got me NOWHERE! It was (and still is) a brain dysfunction! I cannot get back the childhood where I slammed my head into a door because I was angry at myself. I cannot go back and pull the needles out of my fingertips or erase the scars on my arms left from my fingernails or the point of my compass... but I CAN... finally... FORGIVE my self destructive anger! Because IT IS NOT MY FAULT!!

You, the neurologically normal, are doing the SAME FUCKING tHING as the wealthy "let them eat cake" neocons who never had a hungry day in their LIVES when dealing with the poor!

Do a little research!

309

[rasputin1952]

45. Just a personal note here from a fellow DU'er...

PLEASE, do not expect to get expert medical advice here on DU. Each individual is different, and while many symptoms may seem to lead to a diagnosis, there can can be great discrepancies.

Not to mention, there may be sever allergic reactions to some of the herbal, as well as some of the pharmaceuticals that are being used.

I strongly suggest that you discuss these situations with a physician, and get a second opinion as well.
I have spent many years in the medical field, and except for some exceptionally basic information, I would never prescribe anything over the net. A valid history is an absolute necessity in situations of this type.

Thanks for hearing me out...

[skooooo]

6. organization doesn't cure brain chemistry...

..your comments almost make it seem that you think depressed people are just kind of lazy.

[onebigbadwulf]

11. Believe it or not... exercise and organization DO affect brain chem

Aerobic exercise stimulates neurogenesis in your hippocampus - a part of your brain that is severely affected by "depression".

Anxiety is modulated by stress hormones / chemicals - things like corticosteroids. With an abundance of these chemicals in your brain there are severe side affects including insomnia, poor memory, attention span etc.

You fight this by attacking the stressors, not your brain's natural response to them. Otherwise you're setting yourself for being really screwed up way down the line.

[skooooo]

13. Oh geezus..

...Yes I know this. However,to insinuate that ALL the poster has to do to get their life into shape is to exercise and get organized is incredibly patronizing and takes nothing into account except your own biases about mental illness.

Pharmeceuticals help a lot of people out. To suggest that they are not needed is just silly.

[onebigbadwulf]

17. No need to get snippy

1. I never insinuated ALL anybody anything
2. I gave examples of times when drugs should be used
3. Yes drugs help out a lot of people, but...
4. They aren't needed in most cases


Morphine helps ease the pain of a broken arm, but if you dont set the fragments to heal itself properly - you're screwed.

Common mental "illnesses" are no different*.


*Unless of course we're talking about the extreme cases I already mentioned

[skooooo]

18. because you're not a doctor..

...saying things like "They aren't needed in most cases" shows you have a bias against medication, imo. If that's your opinion, that's fine, but to suggest to SOMEONE ELSE that they probably don't need them is potentially damaging and has no basis in any research or fact.

You may be right (or you may not) that most of the time drugs aren't needed -- however, to apply that belief randomly to someone who is asking for advice is wrong. And yes, after you made those initial statements, you did qualify them. Still, you should be careful about applying your own beliefs (and that's all they are) to someone else -- especially if the stakes may be rather high.

[Deja Q]

29. Neither are you...

I see where you're right in this argument, but you were quick to pass your own judgments against me.

[skooooo]

33. ....no hard feelings.

It's a touchy thing with me...

[Deja Q]

28. You ARE correct on depression. And I am not dismissing exercise as being

a load of bunk.

But I DID NOT SAY I HAVE DEPRESSION. Forgive the uppercase, I haven't a clue as to how depression got into any of this.

Exercise does help depression, that is a fact.

Maybe I will improve with memory and mental acuity as I continue to exercise, but yu hardly know me yet YOU are just as quick to diagnose as everyone else.

[skooooo]

34. Depression entered topic..

...when you mentioned Zoloft. I suppose it may treat anxiety as well, but it's an anti-depressant.

[luaneryder]

10. Those are both useful and free

and it's wonderful that you have found them to be beneficial, but there are times when someone needs more help.

[onebigbadwulf]

12. I agree and I mentioned some cases where help is needed...

for example:

crippled in fear to leave the house
constantly attempting suicide / self-mutiliation
unable to sit and read anything for more than 2 minutes
constantly acting out in violence
severe insomnia (days at a time)

[hyphenate]

20. There are far more

reasons than you give here. And to presume that you know the status of anyone's need or lack thereof to deal with their illnesses, especially mental incapacities, is massive hubris on your part, unless you are a clinical psychiatrist or psychologist.

Every individual is different, and their needs must be evaluated by the proper medical experts. If I let myself just try to manage my clinical depression on nothing more than "exercise and organization," there is a good chance I would be dead right now. Same as if I decided to ignore the chest pains I had before my second heart attack, I don't think exercise and organization would have provided the necessary remedies to stop that heart attack from happening.

Unless you have credentials, do not presume to determine any one else's need of medicines or other such necessities for their medical conditions.

[Wright Patman]

4. I take

St John's Wort, Valerian Root and Kava Kava. I have very little anxiety and sleep like a baby most nights. I used to walk a lot also. But not anymore, for a reason I will explain below.

I am also a recovering alcoholic with a history of depression, so I consider my present state nothing short of miraculous.

On top of that, I got hit head-on by a Chevrolet Suburban which ran off the road going at least 40 mph Last November 9 and I was out of the hospital in just over three weeks and walking without assistance in just over a month in spite of my pelvis having been broken in three places and having broken 15 to 20 bones and collapsed a lung altogether.

The whole time I was in such excruciating pain, I was also at perfect peace with the world.

Either there really is a God (not *'s destructive one) or I am extremely lucky. I say instead that I am blessed.

I had a near-death/out-of-body experience which more or less confirmed to me the existence of a Hereafter. Unless you were to go through something like this, I don't expect you to understand why. And I truly hope you do not have to go through what I did and also that you get over your anxiety and ADD.

[duhneece]

5. At one time I took Zoloft,

When I took Zoloft, I discovered I couldn't give myself an orgasm, and that freaked me out, so the dr. gave me Effexor.
At least with Effexor, i could have an orgasm!
But I read books about natural treatments-the biggest discovery for me was exercise..especially in the morning, keeping a regular schedule (no staying up late on my weekends and sleeping in), and eating right, talking to someone I feel safe with....
Exercise is the most important for me-helps with anxiety and with concentration.
I haven't taken any medication for 2 or 3 years now and I feel better.

[whistle]

7. I'm not a big believer in alternative medicine because....

...the field is totally wide open and unregulated, so lots of opportunities for quacks and charlatans exists. Here is what one site sais about the medication you are on, when asked the same question you pose:

Subject: Herbal alternatives to Zoloft
Topic Area: Anxiety
Forum: The Mental Health Forum
Question Posted By: ahilow on Saturday, December 07, 2002


I've been on Zoloft (75 mg/day) for 5 years. I want to find a natural remedy instead. In addition I feel fatigue all the time, I want to sleep all the time it seems. I hear Ashwaganda or other herbal adaptogens might ease my anxiety/depression and give me more energy. What do you know about this?

Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Answer Posted By: Forum-M.D.-RG on Tuesday, December 10, 2002

I would not suggest herbal substitutes because they had not been well studied and the dosage has not been standardized so you do not know what you're getting and how much you are getting.

Give Zoloft is the longer effective for you you might ask your doctor about Celexa.


http://www.medhelp.org/forums/mentalhealth/messages/320...

As a cautionary note, another source says this about herba substitutes:

The following are recommendations for Using Herbal Alternatives by Dr. James A. Duke in the book, "What the labels won't tell you" by Logan Chamberlain, PH.D.

Make sure of the diagnosis. Self-diagnosis is a risky business, and best left to well-trained physicians. Once you're confident of a diagnosis, though, then discuss with your physician how to treat it: drugs, herbs, some combination of the two, or any of the foregoing plus diet, exercise, and lifestyle changes.

Watch out for side effects.. If you have an unpleasant reaction to an herb, such as dizziness, nausea, or headache, cut back on your dosage or stop taking the herb. Listen to your body. If the herb doesn't feel right, don't take it.

Beware of interactions. Pharmaceutical medication sometimes interact badly with each other and with certain foods. The same goes for herbal medicines. Always be particularly careful when taking more than one drug or herb or a combination of a drug and herb. If you suspect a bad interaction, consult your physician or pharmacist.

If you're pregnant, take special precautions. As a general rule, you shouldn't take herbs while you're pregnant unless you discuss your selections with your obstetrician, because quite a few herbs can increase the risk of miscarriage.
<end>

It's hard sometimes when taking prescriptions to find what is just right for you. Work with your doctor and give him/her as much feedback as you can. I wish you well.

[Ruby Romaine]

14. one thing that has helped me is to get off caffeine, it's really difficult

to do.
diet including lots of fresh vegetables & exercise can help one feel good.
keeping busy too.
there's lots of opportunity to get involved this election year.

and limit tv & computer time-that can really suck out one's energy

[Cybergata]

50. A lot of advice from folks...

who have never experienced the horror of depression, or have been ADD.
No one will have the perfect advice for you, but as a person who has lived with both depression and ADD I just want to say a few things.

Exercise is great, but right before I was on the verge of walking into traffic because I felt being dead was the only solution to escape the nothingness I had felt for so long, I had just jogged 3 miles. Exercise helps, especially now, but luckily I decided not to die, rather I went to the doctor. Taking Prozac made me feel normal for the first time in a long time.

Prozac stopped working after 10 years, so I tried Zoloft, which made me twitchy, hyper, and I had a terrible time concentrating. Paxil was the last thing I tried. It worked for me. Some drugs work better for some people. Others for others, but be sure before you try St. John's Wart or anything else, confer with you doctor.

I'm a strong believer that what you eat has a lot to do with how you feel. Depression that has no rhyme or reason is caused by brain chemicals. Food helps, but it may not be enough. I also use herbs rather than drugs for some things. I can't take hormone replacement drugs, so I take soy, evening prime rose oil, black cohash. They work perfectly for me. I take herbs and vitamins to avoid illness, and they have made sure I can teach without getting sick....no matter how little sleep I get. The one thing I can't find herbal replacements for is my asthma or depression, so be careful and consult your doctor.

I almost forgot, for those folks that think quitting cafine helps ADD, nope! Studies find that cafine has a reverse affect on kids with ADD, and I'm sure Adults too.

[seventhson]

15. At the risk of getting harassed I will return to a theme

much of the hormonal damage we have suffered (and consequently we have add, chronic fatigue, depression, and lower immune system functioning among other diseases) is due to radioiodine exposure from nuke plants and other sources.

It is pandemic.It damages the thyroid gland which regulates your body temperature and the production of hormones and heart rate, etc (which is one reason exercise DOES help as the heart is stressed and needs working out)

I urge you to look into natural thyroid supplements (you will need an rx from a doctor, though, to get natural armour (desiccated) thyroid)

You can find someone familiar with your symptoms and who can treat you (though you need to do some research too) at the Broda Barnes Foundation website.

It was a lifesaver for me and my family.

I also use kava kava to kill the ill at ease feeling, valerian and malatonin to sleep and/or relax.

I think there is a site called green willow tree that has a doctor who will treat over the phone for a fee.

Unfortunately the thyroid damage epidemic/pandemic in this country is little understood and the nuclear industry has successfully convinced most people in America that this is not THEIR problem.

But I learned much about this from studying the writing of Dr Ernest Sternglass at www.radiation.org website . He studied the affects of radiation from huke testing on the braisn of children and hypothesizes that the emissions from commercial and military nuke facilities is damaging all of us - but especially vulnerable are children and babies in utero whose mothers are exposed `

I'll bet you live not too far from a leaky nuke plant or military facility.

[Gothic Sponge]

16. Try St. John's Wort

http://www.hypericum.com /

[HuckleB]

22. This has more side effects than Zoloft.

Just because it's natural, doesn't mean it's safe.

[Gothic Sponge]

30. Show me studies that prove St John's Wort is less safe than Zoloft!

and not studies funded by pharmaceutic companies.

[HuckleB]

31. Go to your local health sciences university library. You'll find plenty.

St. John's Wort acts similarly to the older, tricyclic anti-depressants. It's side-effect profile is nasty, just like those were. Herbs are not inert, side-effect free substances, or they likely would have little effect. In the case of St. John's Wort, the food and medicine interaction profile is quite scary, as it is with tricyclics.

Here's a profile online: http://www.personalhealthzone.com/stjohnswort.html

However, I do encourage everyone to go to a health sciences library and check out the publications there in order to get a first-hand look at studies. Unfortunately, what is available online and in the mainstream press is quite skimpy and often skewed.

[Cybergata]

36. I tried Zoloft, and it made me jittery

...so my doc suggested I try Paxil, I works great. I tried St. John's Wart and Valarin Root, but the St. John's Wart was worse than Zoloft. Sometimes it just takes trying to find what works for you.

[Ivan Sputnik]

46. St. John's Wort

I've taken it for years (standardized 300mg extract). No side effects whatsoever, and I do feel better. As with ANYthing else, YMMV.

[Jokinomx]

23. Zoloft

I can only speak for me... I was given Zoloft by my Dr. for restlessness and anxiety. As with Duhneese... it had severe effects on my sexual functioning. It did weird things to my brain also...I really can't explain it very well... I took myself off it and relied on the common weed...canabis. It keeps me relaxed and helps with my anxiety. I can't believe that a drug like Zoloft is easily prescribed by Doctors and such a harmless drug as weed can't be given.

That is my Humble opinion....

[LWolf]

24. Hey, hypnotoad.

In case you needed someone to say it, anxiety disorders and add/adhd are real. It's true that add/adhd can be over-diagnosed and medicated, but it is real. And here is what I know about coping without meds:

For ADD--It can be done, but you just don't go off the meds and expect to cope successfully without changing a lot of life habits. Not everything works for everybody, but here are some things that work for some:

*diet change. Cut sugar, processed foods, and all foods with dyes. Eat fresh foods.

*Remove distractions in the environment. Get rid of clutter. Pare things down to essentials.

*Make/keep a list of what you want to accomplish each day. Check off as you go. When you start a task, don't stop until it's done; then reward yourself for having finished.

*excercise. Lots of it. Lots of physical movement.

There's plenty more. Here's a site to browse:

http://www.ncpamd.com/Adult_ADD.htm

As far as anxiety disorders go, I'm not sure what to tell you. There are plenty of herbal alternatives out there, but I don't have any experience with them, so I'd hesitate to recommend them. You might think about seeing a homeopath for diagnosis and treatment.

[Eurobabe]

25. have your thyroid checked

many times people have a thyroid disorder and are given AD and/or ADD meds, when getting thyroid fixed could solve many problems.

I am a fanatic about this!! See if you can get a doc to prescribe natural thy-meds to you, if you need it.

A good book that explains how the thyroid affects the brain (chemistry, etc.) is Thyroid Solution by Dr. Ridha Arem. Good luck!

[seventhson]

40. I agree 100% BUT

often standard blood tests do not detect the problem. alternative MD's do metabolic tests (checking for a low body temperature, cold in the extremities, intolerance for cols, low base body temp (less than 97.8) INSTEAD of the blood tests which they find unreliable.

try the broda barnes foundation website or google "Basal body temperature" and thyroid for info or hypothyroid disorder.

[HuckleB]

26. Don't just experiment on your own.

If you want to seek out an herbal treatment for your anxiety and ADD, go to a mental health specialist in alternative medicine who has completed work at an accredited school of oriental, Chinese or naturopathic medicine. Herbs have side effects, too, and you need someone to help keep you safe as you seek successful treatment.

Best to you.

[AngryAmish]

32. Please Read This

All the advice you are getting here is inherently biased. Some people are pro-medication, some pro-herbals and some people just plain idiots like me.

Get diagnosed by a real doctor - a Board Certified psychiatrist. Many internists feel they can prescribe a lot of drugs for depression, et cetera. However Board Certified psychiatrists are the gold standard.

Many times for complex mental illnesses it takes several medications and combinations of medications to get the dosage or selection correct. It may take months or years. Sorry, but that is reality.

I do not like herbals just because most of they have not been subject to real double-blind testing for effectiveness. Plus, the dosages vary from brand to brand and even within the same brand.

Take everything you hear here with huge dosage of salt. Including what I say. Mental illness can be very serious and must be dealt with in a serious way. Soliciting help on an internet chat board and using that as the sole basis for treatment is not serious. However, if you are just looking at options, well that is why we are here.

[papau]

35. We need more room in the "plain idiots" section if others are joining

me!

From what I understand (and worth every penny you are paying for it :

Zoloft - and indeed all drugs - affects different folks in different ways.

Prozac or another drug may work when Zoloft has not.

Depression is very real and drug's are extremely useful and needed.

CPAC (a little face masked air pressure) can sometimes help.

Exercise is great as is weight reduction.

Caffeine in bad, Alcohol is bad.

Sadly, carbs are more "happy" than protein! Happily, low cal is the real diet rule. Sadly, old folks tire and hurt re exercises, and don't always follow diets well.

Herbs have sides that you need to know - and they interact with drugs and indeed other herbs.

Good luck!

[Droopy]

49. I second that

Good post, AngryAmish.

[Mordecai]

37. Don't go the herbs and things route.

Stick with what works--the Zoloft.

[seventhson]

38. a friend tells me prozac was much better than zoloft

in case you ever wondered

[NMDemDist2]

39. there are a couple herbal that have been known to help

Valerian root (similar to Valium only natural) is good for anxiety

also some folks have had good results with oil of evening primrose for depression (especially people who have tendencies to substance abuse)

St John's Wort is also mentioned, but I have no personal experience with it

these are two that i personally know of good results from. But the previous poster is correct, you need to be very careful coming off Zoloft

[Unperson 309]

43. Best Way to do good CHEAP herbals is...

Tincture them yourself!

I gather, garden or purchase my own fresh herbs, dry them and make tinctures according to my great great grandfather's old herbal book (printed in 1836) and from recipes I get online.

Right now I have a Valerian and Chamomile tincture setting up.

2 ounces German Valerian root = $2.50
1 ounce Chamomile flowers = $1.00
6 ounces 195 proof alcohol = $4.00
6 ounces pure distilled and filtered water $0.50
total cost $8.00 for (when decanted) around 11 ounces of tincture.

When a ONE OUNCE bottle of Valerian root tincture sells for $10.00
it's time to make my own! All it takes is the time, the effort and the patience. And I *KNOW* what is going into the stuff because I PUT it there!

When I decant the stuff, I'll have a year's supply for under ten bucks. I have enough sterilized bottles to store it and won't have to worry about buying the overprices (and weaker!) stuff from the stores.

Now, if I could find some poppies, I HAVE a recipe for tinctured opium! Naaaaahhhhh! Don't need it.

309

[MaryBear]

44. A good read for any adult

with ADD, or dealing with someone who has ADD, is "You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy." It provides practical advice you can follow. Combine it with prescription medication. Meds can help if you get the right one. Herbs can be helpful too but dosages can vary. Find a doc you like, and stick with him/her. If you like, find one qualified in herbal as well as traditional medicine. And don't take any quick actions to change meds. And, yes, I'm qualified to voice this opinion.

[Sparrow]

47. just my opinion

I think the increase in mental health problems in our society is because of capitalism.
Greed causing envy causing superficiality causing judging causing stress all perpetuating at faster rates.

[Droopy]

48. You've just started taking the drug, HypnoToad

It takes about a month for most anti-depressants to start working. I think you should follow what your doctor says. If your doctor starts prescribing you 15 different meds then you have something to worry about. But one med is a reasonable prescription for somebody to take. Geez, give it a chance to work.