Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Grrrr my friend is going through an Ayn Rand phase

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:34 PM
Original message
Grrrr my friend is going through an Ayn Rand phase
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 12:34 PM by Cousinit13
and its quite frustrating to discuss politics with her. Hopefully she will learn one day how incredibly selfish and destructive Objectivism is. We just have to focus on other things to talk about like our mutual love for waffles and other assorted breakfast foods.

At least she isn't voting for Bush, so there still is hope!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. How old is she?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. just turned 20
thats why I am calling it a phase
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. She'll likely grow out of it. Is she the pretentious type?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. not really...shes more anti-establishment than anything else
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. She'll probably be OK then.
Fingers crossed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thats what friends are for
I stand by them when they are led astray and try to help them back on the path of righteousness :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Doesn't also realize that that crap is poorly written?
Great South Park episode where Police Officer Barbrady learns to read, and then gives it up after reading Ayn Rand!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Objectivists are political Jehovah's Witnesses.
I wonder how she'd react if you told her that. (It's true, too. Once they enter that blck hole, a lot of them never come back out.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. Punch her a few times and see how objectivism can hold up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. I had a philosophy professor once tell me that
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 12:44 PM by Fenris
If there is any philosophical school of thought that has been thoroughly discredited to the point of wholesale condemnation, it is Objectivism and its prophet Rand.

Most who read Rand realize quickly how absurd the ideas are. Most.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thats why most of her readers are young people like my friend
with age and education most will come to realize how dumb that stuff is. Thats why I am confident my friend will come to her senses...I don't hang with dumb asses :P

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I went through it
and I'm okay. And then I went oh my god this woman is a fascist! A lot of people go through an Ayn Rand phase. It's part of learning to think for yourself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Apparently Alan Greenspan is a follower...
...explains a lot!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. God, I forgot about that.
Nice to know you have someone in charge of the Fed that agrees with the Virtue of Selfishness.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Yeah, that's why we're so screwed!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kira Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. What would you list
as the major beliefs an objectivist believes in? I can see liking the ideas of striving to be your best and to not depend on others to do hard work for you. It seems to me they don't believe in charity which is crazy to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think being an independent person is important
but it is the selfishness that really angers me. I have similar feelings about existentialism as well
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kira Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yes I agree.
I think "Atlas Shrugged" can pull a person in because it is black and white. Either the people are beautiful and brilliant or they are ugly inside and out. They are lazy and crooked. The people who work hard succeed and the people who don't fail. But you can't look at the world like that because it isn't black and white.

Another compelling theme I think that draws people in is the idea that when you know you are right and people all around you are trying to tear you down, you need to believe in yourself. I do like that part. There are often people who are jealous of peoples strengths for whatever reason and they can try to be harmful to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. That all sounds a little too fascistic for my tastes.
Usually I'm trying to be less of an individual, not more. I'm unique enough as it is!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. My own flirtation with Rand/Objectivism was a pesky thing that died hard..
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 12:52 PM by southpaw
It's philosophically weak and poorly written, but those romantic characters (Howard Roark, Dominique Francon, Dagney Taggart, Hank Rearden, John Galt...) are appealing to young college students who want to believe in their ability to do things their own way in a world that demands conformity. Failure becomes a virtue when you are convinced that it is the result of the system keeping you down because they fear your staunch self-reliance.

Rand's philosophy is a classic case of overcorrection. She fled communism and ran to the extreme opposite end of the playing field...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. there are parts of the Rand philosophy I agree with though
not the stuff that makes the news however.

I like the rejection of the metaphysical and her epistemological points, as well as her opinion on esthetics.

Not so fond of her view of ethics, politics, and human nature, as those views seem rigid and out of touch with what we know of sociology, anthropology, and the development of human morality. I also think that she is consistently over-analyzed and possibly misrepresented.

Maybe your friend isn't buying the whole thing but just some parts that appeal to her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. Closest I ever got to buying into the philosophy of a book
was Generation X.
Man, did I ever want to move to the desert with disinterested hot people and watch coyotes suck yuppie fat from garbage bags while vandalizing cars and obsessing about obscure minutae.
But I didn't. I was too apathetic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Reverend_Smitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I've never been sucked into a philosophy
that is a strict philosophy of any one person or group of people. Rather I like to read them all and pick out the parts that I like and disregard the rest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. ah delightful contradictions
make the world go round. I was like that with Naked Lunch and On the Road and rocker tomes. Not exactly philosphical though, just self-destructive. But it balanced our my hyper-responsible streak well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regularguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. I was a Rand-y in high school......
I really enjoyed "The Fountainhead" at the time. But Atlas Shrugged cured me...at some point I just threw the damn thing down and that was that. (Something about the virtues of stealing from the poor to give back to the rich...) The fact that she hates Jazz (I live for it) helped.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bookfreak Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
26. Many people go through the Randbot phase
I did it myself. It started with Atlas Shrugged and went from there. I read the books, I joined the online groups. After a while it all began to reek of religion to me...anytime I'd ask a question anybody didn't like or make some statement that didn't comply with the bible of Rand somebody would tell me to "check my premises". So much dogma..you can't question or disagree with Rand or you are a pariah..and I thought the whole purpose of philosophy was to question and examine!

Objectivism is not utterly devoid of good ideas, but it is fraught with bad ones. I do hope your friend will see through the quagmire.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Oct 31st 2014, 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC