Polygamy rife among town's cops

[Champ]

More than half of the police officers in a US town have more than one wife, an investigation has revealed.

The eight month investigation into police polygamy in Hildade, Utah, was ordered by Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.

He told the Salt Lake Tribune: "Hildale has 13 officers who are certified by Utah, seven by our records are polygamists."

But Shurtleff admitted that none of the seven officers would face criminal charges: "We just don't have the resources to start charging bigamy," he told the paper.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_983648.html?menu=news.quirkies

[saracat]

1. And a direct assault on polyamy"

is wrong , why????????

[Sirveri]

2. I've never understood why polygamy was illegal.

I mean hell, the Chinese used to practice it for hundreds of years. They just called them concubines. I've got a freind who can trace his lineage back to something like 40BC. Clearly didn't destroy their society. Well they're a bit overpopulated now, but I suspect that's for differant reasons.

[saracat]

4. So it's okay with you

that a woman have as many husbands as she can handle? Just checking your viewpoint. It's illegal because it creates inequality under the law, (those Chinese concubines don't have rights!) and leads to child abuse, and incest!Duh! Whats to understand unless you are a slavery proponent.

[pagerbear]

5. Excuse me?

I'm not exactly a slavery proponent, and maybe I'm not very well informed, but I don't see the connection between polygamy and child abuse or incest that you seem to suggest should be obvious to anyone with half a brain. Would you be kind enough to fill me in?

[saracat]

7. I already pointed out the fact that the women involved

would have no equal protection under the law. You can only have one spouse. And most of the polygomous communities in Utah and the Arizona border have tremdous problems with child molestation. Many of the so called brides are children below the age of eighteen. Most have had no say in their bondage, but are given by their parents to the preselected spouse and many men have for then one "wife" from the same family. Men often have "married "either a "wife's"sister or sometimes her child.I cannot believe that anyone on this Board would ask for an explnation of the evils of polygamy.It is in total disregard of wome's rights as well as human rights!

[HEyHEY]

9. Okay so what about an equal opportunity polygamist state?

[pagerbear]

21. Thank you for the explanation.

And for the condescending concluding sentence. I was not clear that you're talking about polygamy as it is practiced by these sects, not polygamy in principle. Is it not entirely outside the realm of possibility that that a polygamous or polyamorous relationship could exist without these negative consequences (legal questions of spouses notwithstanding)?

[amber dog democrat]

17. Read Under The Banner of Heaven.

Its a recent look at the spin-off Morman cults that practice polygamy. and sometimes murder.

To the extent that these young women are controlled and eploited, there is very little one can say in defense of the child abuse and incest that goes on.

I really think its a power trip for men who want to have sex with teenage girls.
These young women have no education, options or freedom to make personal choices.

Utah had to surrender polygamy as a condition of admission into the Union.

[Sirveri]

6. Hey whatever works.

I really don't care. Have as many husbands, have as many wifes, provided the couples are willing it's none of my damned business.

How does it create inequality? What, other people might get more play than you? And for some reason the govmint needs to crack down on that?

It's legal in the Koran and Islam in general. They don't appear to have a problem with a man having multiple wifes. They probably would extending it to women, but hey that's the nature of the beast. There are plenty of cultures in which polygamy is accepted and viewed as normal. Those societies function perfectly fine. Hell there is more of a good track record for polygamy than gay marriage!

I'm a civil rights proponent. If someone wants to marry multiple people, I don't give a damn. If someone wants to pop some pills and dance away in a rave, why is that MY business? If two men want to gain marriage rights because they're gay and they love each other, why should I care. None of those things affect me in any way. And for the most part, they don't damage society as a whole.

[saracat]

8. Fine is the women have a choice.

In most instances, regardless of the religious issue, they don't.!That is slavery, and legal in Islam doesn't interest me. It isn't legal in the USA and that trumps the religion argument. It isn't legal because it is a denial of civil rights.Does it not bother you that minor children are married against their will? That is probably none of your damn business either!

[HEyHEY]

11. You're talking about the way a certain group practises polygamy

Not Polygamy itself.

[saracat]

13. There is no version of polygamy

as practiced by any major religion, in which a woman has a choice. BTW Polygamy , by it's nature is demeaning to women as it imply's ,through multiples that she is not equal. In other words, she can only have one partner but the man can have mutiple patrners because he is worth more as a sperm donor than she is as a life giver. That way there are more of his children than would be provided by one woman.

[DIKB]

14. key words

"as practiced by any major religion"

That's the problem is that most religions were invented by misogynistic societies. The very concept of equality goes against christ-i(ns)anity and the muslim faith.

My advice drop the superstitions. You don't still avoid cracks in the sidewalk, do you ?

[HEyHEY]

16. Why can't a woman have more than one husband?

Again you're talking about the way certain groups practice it. There's no reason why a PC form of poligamy can't be practiced

[VelmaD]

22. Learn your freakin' terms would ya

Before you go spouting about how polygamy "by it's nature is demeaning to women"...learn what the freakin' word means.

Polygamy is having more than one spouse REGARDLESS of gender. There is nothing inherently biased against women in the idea of mutliple spouses.

The thing you are complaining about is POLYGYNY...the practice of having more than one wife. In a sexist society this turns into a system for oppressing women. But there's no reason it has to be that way.

Polyandry is having more than one husband. I'm ALL in favor of this one. :)

Anyway, my point is this, your real problem is with the sexism rampant in our society. That's the real issue here. If you don't want women and especially teenage girls to be exploited in marriage that's fine and I agree with you. The thing is none of the problems you ascribe to "polygamy" as currently practised in some religions is specific to polygamy. There are plenty of Muslim women being demeaned in countries where polygamy is not allowed. There are plenyy of Mormon women who are treated like second class citizens by men who have only one wife. Hell, there are plenty of women and young girls all over the world who are treated badly and abused and forced into marriages against their will who ARE NOT in polygamous marriages. To use abuse of some women as an excuse to tell actual consenting adults what they can and can't do is no different than if you were arguing against gay marriage because some men molest little boys.

[Sirveri]

15. Wow, so many errors

First off, does it bother me that minor children are married against their will? Well... there's a little problem with that.

Minors can not enter into contracts. Marriage is a contract.

In most instances the woman doesn't have a choice? Well so what you're saying is that if women had a choice it would be OK then? Right? Also how is it slavery? Can the wife leave? Well if our country legalised polygamy, they could probably leave any time they want and file for a divorce, just like a normal couple.

As for it not being legal because it's a denial of civil rights... HAHAHAHA. Yes, Drugs aren't legal in this country because drugs are a denial of civil rights? Oh wait a minute.

Making something illegal means you're taking a civil right for the good of the state. Quite frankly I don't see how this is good for the state. Maybe the state should instead legalise this and enforce the already existing laws on child abuse and slavery you claim is so rampant in Utah.

[amber dog democrat]

18. I am in full support of your comments.

These cults are not being held accountable as they should.
I suppose its a difficult issue for Utah politicians, but it looks like the tide is turning.
I am heartened by the conviction of kingston.

[Liberal Classic]

12. If there's no reason that a man and another man can't elope

Why can't a man and a woman and a woman. Or verse visa?

Duh?

Homosexual marrage is generally supported by people who lean towards the left side of the isle. Why the opposition to plural marriage?

[no_hypocrisy]

3. It's the welfare more than the morality of polygamy that makes it a target

More wives and hence more children. Police officers' salaries can be stretched only so far. So the families apply to the state for welfare and Medicaid in massive numbers. Utah would prefer polygamy as it is traditional, but it can't afford it indefinitely. (I know, I know. The Mormon Church doesn't condone it anymore -- generally. But some sects do.)

So as a budget item, polygamy is not favored. The state would prefer to break up these families, distribute the children to foster care, etc. and take them off state entitlement program rolls.

[Don_G]

10. How The Hell Could They Do That?

I have enough trouble trying to convince "the one" to marry me as it is.

Twenty people and a badge?

[TahitiNut]

19. polygamy - multiple spouses

polygyny - multiple wives
polyandry - multiple husbands

If folks can't even get the terms straight, I gotta wonder if the discussion has much value. :shrug:

For example, who says there can't be both multiple husbands and multiple wives in such an "alternative" marriage? It's not something I'd be interested in, but I'm just not inclined to let that be my license to tell others what to do. I'm not at all convinced that such arrangements, per se, lead to violence or abuse. I'd be more inclined to believe that societal pressures and harassments of people who choose to live "differently" (not to mention individuals who use such departure from "standards of normalcy" as reason for venting their hostilities) yield reactive behavior or behavior under prolonged stress. I have a tough time finding anything inherently "wrong" about such arrangements. (But I stopped dragging my prudishness around a long time ago.)

[TreasonousBastard]

20. WTF????

They did an eight month investigation and found half the cops were lawbreakers but they don't have the "resources" to bring them to trial?

Who's kidding who here?

OK, here's the skinny on a lot of these Mormon fundies-- since the marriages are illegal, the women with children (like any of them don't...) except for one, are "single mothers" and eligible for welfare and other goodies. I read about one prosecuted case where many thousands came in to the household each month with over a dozen wives and many kids, and guess who cashed the checks... The more wives and kids you got, the more checks you get. Nice work if you can get it.

Prosecutions have been for welfare fraud, but for some reason prosecutors haven't been all that anxious to grab these people. Maybe they don't want to send the women to prison, maybe the law is written to make prosecutions difficult, maybe they are "getting orders" from on high, or maybe it's just that fundie Mormons aren't Black and don't fit the common vision of welfare fraud. Or some of these "homes" are armed camps.

Daughters are bought and sold, minor girls are kidnapped, abuse is rampant... It's a nasty business with this crew.

[TexasBushwhacker]

23. The roots run too deep

Even the prosecution and conviction of John Daniel Kingston was for child abuse, not for bigamy. The state of Utah hasn't prosecuted polygamists for bigamy since the 1950's, even though there are an estimated 50K polygamy "practioners" in Utah alone. Another 8K live in Colorado City, AZ, on the AZ-UT border.

From http://www.polygamyinfo.com/frontdoor.htm

"From June, 2002 through June 2003, the Arizona Attorney Generals office reports 8 million tax dollars in welfare services have gone to support polygamy.

During this year, 80% of Colorado City received food stamps totaling $2.3 million. $5 million in free healthcare and an additional $660K in tax dollars were funneled into the community.

All residents of Colorado City paid a combined total of $72K in taxes."

There is rampant child abuse, forced marriage of underage girls to close relatives and resulting in high rates of birth defects and mental retardation. Underaged mothers often get little pre-natal care and give birth at home. The defective infants often "disappear", but there is no investigation of infanticide because it isn't reported. One 15 year old mother, married to her half-brother, died in childbirth from pre-eclampsia which could have been easily treated had she been at a hospital. The practice of polygamy is so secretive, and the polygamists in their numbers have influence in law enforcement, city and state government. On the rare occasion that a polygamist is prosecuted for child abuse, or incest, it's difficult to get a jury together.

Even Senator Orin Hatch defends them and refuses to push for federal investgation since he considers it a "state issue", despite the fact that child brides are often transported across state lines, making it a federal issue.

"I'm not here to justify polygamy," he said. "All I can say is, I know people in Hilldale who are polygamists who are very fine people. You come and show me evidence of children being abused there and I'll get involved. Bring the evidence to me."

Hatch said he could not take unsubstantiated claims and enforce law, and he would not "sit here and judge anybody just because they live differently than me.

"There will be laws on the books, but these are very complicated issues," Hatch said."

BTW, am I the only one who notices the coincidence that this rampant welfare fraud and child abuse is taking place, law enforcement is looking the other way and the offenders ARE ALL WHITE?

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Good site...

I knew this was big, but it's bigger than I thought.

And, no, you're not the only one who noticed certain "white" offenders seem to be ignored.