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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:25 AM
Original message
My latest incident of romantic self-destruction
Here's a good one for all you soap-opera junkies:

There is this girl from work who I am totally in love with. We finally started to secretly go out a few times. But meanwhile she was still going out with a couple of other guys - military guys from the local Army base, plus she is dating totally random guys she meets through one of those internet dating sites on occasion. Because I am totally in love with her I couldn't abide with this situation, and, while slightly drunk, I wrote her an extremely passionate and personal letter that explained how I really felt, that I wanted to see her exclusively, and even went way overboard and started talking about her being the mother of my children. I hoped this would be well received, since she is always talking about how her past relationships ended badly because the guys were afraid of commitment, and I was offering her nothing but that.

This freaked her out, and she responded by telling me that she has decided that because I revealed to her on one of our past dates that I am an atheist, and that she claims to be a very moral Christian woman (which I suspect her former live-in boyfriend would disagree with), that she could only see herself marrying a likewise very moral Christian man, and then something to the effect that she could never allow an atheist to have any part in the raising of her future children, and so she had to dump me immediately.

Meanwhile, she apparently still plans to keep casually dating the guys from the military base, and the guys she meets on the internet, without the subject of religion ever coming up. So to me her response to me about my being an athiest seems like it could just be an excuse, and my letter just scared her because she was unable to handle finally getting what she claimed to really want.

Now things are really weird between us at work - we can barely look at each other let alone speak. I don't think I can stand to be here much longer - I really want to finally meet someone to settle down with and that is just not going to happen for me here in Bible-thumping south Alabama in a military town where the single men outnumber the single women at least 4 to 1. This girl had moved down here from a northern state only just last year and I figured this could mean that she would be more open minded than the women down here are, but apparently I was wrong.

Now I'm probably a total idiot, but I still feel strongly for this woman, although I can't figure out any way to reconcile this situation. Any advice? Or should I just totally give up and move back up north where I actually have a chance of meeting someone who can tolerate me?
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Move back North
and when you do, please never ever date anyone from work again. Take it from another one who was burned.

Nancy
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. And if you can't move North, look for women in
Edited on Tue May-25-04 10:44 AM by Lydia Leftcoast
more congenial environments.

There's bound to be a Unitarian church, at least in the nearest large city (they accept atheists, and their services are not particularly religious), even in the deep South, and even some lonely outposts of liberal organizations. Or join an arts organization, such as a theater group.

By the way, never, ever make a passionate declaration to someone you've dated only casually. If she doesn't feel the same way and is determined to play the field (which seems to be the case this time), you'll simply scare her off.

Imagine how you would feel if a woman you thought was okay but nothing special suddenly wrote you a passionate letter about wanting to live with you forever and have you father her children.

(This lady's determination to date guys from here, there, and everywhere suggests to me that she's the type who simply MUST have a date every Saturday night. She may also be still feeling the effects of her last breakup--some people "ricochet" for a certain length of time instead of rebounding.)
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. No, this is way too far south for Unitarians
No Unitarians anywhere near here. Even in Tennessee where I used to live I inquired about joining a Unitarian church there as an atheist and they refused to let me.

Yeah she really confused me with all her talk all the time about how she had been burned by guys who were unwilling to commit. I guess I should have observed her actions instead of listened to her words.

If a woman I was dating wrote a letter like that to me, I would probably take her up on the offer. I am really selective about who I date anyway and I am that desperate. ;-)
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. There are Unitarians here in Columbia (SC); the minister here is pagan
You can't possibly be telling me that AL is more Bible Belt than SC! :P
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Totally give up
No offense, friend, but the letter killed your chances.

She doesn't sound terribly Christian anyway, but once you told her that you pictured her as the mom of your kids the game was over.

By the way, don't be in such a hurry to settle down - the best relationships are the ones that just happen. I've never met anyone who actively sought a relationship and wound up happy with what he or she found.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I completely agree
That letter would freak out even someone that really liked you.
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. But things don't "just happen" to me
I'm not real friendly and outgoing in the first place. People generally just don't like me, for no particular reason that I can figure out. I really have to work just to keep my friends.
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Commendatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Here's some advice
When meeting people, just act as if they already DO like you.

Based on your letter, my guess is that self-confidence is something that you could use more of. If you get into the habit of acting around strangers the way you act around friends or relatives (and yes, it does take getting used to), that ozzes the sort of self-confidence that others find attractive.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Didn't see any loveable qualities in your description of her.
Sounds like a woman who never met a man she wouldn't date. You were just one more scalp. Maybe she has a bet on with her friends to see who can date the most guys simultaneously?

Seriously, why are you "totally" in love with her? She's reckless, indiscriminate, dishonest, promiscuous - what's not to love?
Come on! Dare I ask? Is she a registered voter?

I know unrequited love hurts, but any good man deserves better than this babe. Next time set as a minimum requirement that a woman you date respects herself and you.
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. She so many good qualities
She's by far the smartest woman I know - and that's the number one thing I look for in a woman. Plus she is one of those kind of personalities who is so friendly that she makes instant friends with everyone she meets.

Perhaps I exaggerated a little bit in making her sound promiscuous - she goes on a lot of dates, but not to sleep around or anything, but rather because she is desperately looking for someone to settle down with too, but no one seems to quite measure up to her standards, except her live-in exboyfriend who she was totally infatuated with who dumped her when she started talking about settling down. According to her, I do have all the qualities she is looking for, except she is willing to compromise on all those qualities for everyone else she dates, but she will not compromise on the religion thing for me.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. A woman who continually picks men fearful of commitment
suffers from the same condition OR she gets off on playing the victim. The rapid-response-casual only-internet-dating thing makes me suspect the former.

What seems like a self induced disaster now will probably look like a saving grace in retrospect. Give it time. When Ms Right really shows up, you will be glad Ms Wrong (and possibly,Ms Indiscriminate) went bye bye.

Be gentle with yourself. And take the lesson about the complications of romantic involvement with someone from work.

As to the next lady? Do the things which interest you and which you value. More likely to meet kindred spirits that way, and if it doesn't happen right away, at least you are doing what matters to you. Experiment with different pastimes, you may find something new which you really enjoy and feel good about doing. When you are enjoying yourself, you will be very appealing to ladies with similar interests. A confident gentleman doing what he enjoys, or having the courage to try new things, can be a great turn on for women with their heads on straight! ;-)

Keep me posted. I care that you get to feeling better.

havocmom,
always da momma, always ready to let a good person pull up a chair at the kitchen table and let it all out. Cookie?
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. There are no kindred spirits here
I just don't fit in around here. She was the closest thing to my kindred spirit, I thought...but not close enough apparently.
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felonious thunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. Well, first count yourself lucky
I mean, maybe she knows she'd treat you like crap and doesn't want to do that to you, but this ain't a woman you want to settle down with. Be glad you've avoided this problem.

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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. Don't write letters when drunk
;)
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. If you really want to be serious with someone, find a woman
who agrees with you on religious issues. Religion (or lack of religion) is a MAJOR issue. In time she'll pressure you to change, you'll get fed up and mock her religion, children and in-laws will present enormous problems.

Better to find your self a nice atheist woman with whom you're in agreement spiritually and intellectually.

While I dated many guys without even knowing their religious beliefs, I doubt I could have spent my life with an non-believer. There's just too much of a difference. When you settle down for life, little things really matter.
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. There are no atheist women anywhere nearhere
There is an atheist group that meets once a month, that supposedly covers this whole part of Alabama south of the Montgomery area and east of the Mobile area. They have a grand total of 5 members, and one is a woman and she's the wife of one of the other members.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. If there is an Unitarian congregation anywhere near
give it a chance. Lydia Leftcoast has a good point on this one.

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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Believe me, as a gay man who spent many lonely years
in the rural south, I can "feel your pain". All I say do, is to advise against getting seriously involved with someone when it's destined to fail over religious differences. I'm not saying its impossible for an atheist and a Christian to cohabit successfully, but its damn NEAR impossible.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. how many guys is she dating?
Is she trying to get better odds on finding a winner by making the pool bigger? You did yourself a favor, you don't want to be dating someone thats dating LOTS of other people. I'm not saying she's doing them just to be clear but how unspecial do you feel being one of many?
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. She even told me that is her strategy
She's desperate in exactly the opposite way I am - I almost only date women who meet all my standards, so I expect way too much in return; and she dates everyone and his brother in hopes of randomly finding one who measures up to her standards, and is contantly disappointed. The sad thing is that we are so close to being perfect for each other, except for this one insurmountable difference; and I have been alone so long that I have become flexible in my standards and while she is always with someone, even though it's the wrong someone, so she thinks she doesn't have to be yet.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. People who can't be on their own are sad.
I've been married for 14 years but before i met my husband i hadn't dated anyone for 2 years and i was happy. I traveled alot, took classes and spent time with my friends. Sounds like this girl doesnt like herself very much and she's looking for someone that has character traits she lacks. course i could be dead wrong but i dont think so.
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. I'm still single at 31
I haven't dated anyone long term since I was in college like 12 years ago. I desperately want to settle down now, but I keep falling into an unhealthy pattern where I get unrealistically interested in women who don't really like me that much.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
17. You have to ask?
go north young man, go north.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. Jaysus get yerself checked for STD's
Sounds like just breathing the air around her would be enough to catch something.

Go someplace where you like to be, then talk to the people there. Granted, in a library this has to be somewhat subdued, but you'd be surprised who haunts the shelves.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes. Philosophy, you're sharing a dating "pool" with hundreds of people!
Think about it -- if she dates just a "couple" of military guys (forget a moment about any guys she might meet off the Internet) -- and say that the two military guys date two other people, and so on -- you can diagram this out with pencil ticks on a slip of paper -- it doesn't take long at all to reach 4 people, then 8, then 16, then 32, then 64 (adding cumulatively all along -- 64+32+16+8+4+2= 126, etc.) all in contact with one another at the same time.



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Tom_Foolery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. Quit your job and move as quickly as possible!!
You're in a no win situation. If you stay there, you'll do nothing but pine for this woman. Believe me, she'll love all the attention that you'll give to her; but she'll never return it. Been there, done that. MOVE!!!!
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Philosophy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. That's pretty much what I've decided
My job isn't really that fun any more and I'm pretty sure I can get a better paying job elsewhere, but I've only been there 8 months and it doesn't look real good on my resume yet, although I have been promoted to head of the whole programming department. The only other reason I've been sticking around for the last few months was because I thought I had a chance with her.

I'm thinking I should finally be able to fit in somewhere in New England. For some odd reason I've never been there, except passing through on overseas flights.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
28. It would never work
She is wise enough to know that. don't be made at her for saving your from a useless relationship.
She believes in God, if you were agnostic that might even work. But they two of you could never get along in a marriage. Do you really want your kids raised in the church?
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