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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 11:53 PM
Original message
Any DUers who are OB/GYNs?
Edited on Tue Aug-19-03 11:56 PM by jiacinto
Questions:

What is a missed abortion? Why do they call that if the baby is dead and has to be removed?

What is a molar prengnacy? Is it true that it's just parts and not really alive? And can't those cells spread to other parts of the body?

What is a D&C? Have you ever done one before? When you have to do the D&C for the missed abortion do the women cry when you have to do the surgery? Or are they past that point by then?

What causes the membranes to be ruptured? Can they be unrupturred to save the pregnancy?

Have there been any studies to save ectopic pregnancies? Or are they still imposssible to save?

Can pregnancies grow in the stomach instead? And can those ones be saved?

Why is that sometimes when a woman has twins or triplets one baby just vanishes in the uterus?

If a baby comes out via still born, does the woman still have to deliver or can they remove it while she is asleep under anesthisa?

And if the gestational dating sonos show that the woman's fetus has a below normal heartbeat or something is wrong, can there be any pills given to stop the missed abortion?

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Wonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tried google yet, Carlos? nt
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-03 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I am so interested in pregnancy
Edited on Wed Aug-20-03 12:30 AM by jiacinto
Part of me wants to drop my career field and become a midwife or a doctor. It is very exciting.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm an FP who used to deliver babies
What is a missed abortion? Why do they call that if the baby is dead and has to be removed? They call it that because somehow the woman's body "missed" the step of expelling the uterine contents, which is usually experienced as a heavy period.

What is a molar prengnacy? It's when, usually without any longer a viable pregnancy, there's an uncontolled growth (hence mole) of a certain type of placental (afterbirth) tissue).

What is a D&C? You dilate the cervix and curettage (literally scrape) the lining of the inside of the uterus. Have you ever done one before? Yes. When you have to do the D&C for the missed abortion do the women cry when you have to do the surgery? Or are they past that point by then? Some do, some don't. I think it's incorrect to assume that the ones who cry are not as far along emotionally. I think it's more likely to be the other way around.

What causes the membranes to be ruptured? It's a complicated process to explain biochemically, but basically, the cervix thins out with the approach of labor, and eventually the stretched out membrane of the amniotic fluid sac just pops. Can they be unrupturred to save the pregnancy? No. Sometimes you can ride it out for a period of time, and if there's a history of this, in future pregnancies the cervix can be sewn ("cerclaged").

Have there been any studies to save ectopic pregnancies? Or are they still imposssible to save? I'm not aware of ectopic pregnancies in their usual spot (the fallopian tubes) being saved, but there are case reports of abdominal ectopic pregnancies being found on C-section, but this is rare, rare, rare.

Can pregnancies grow in the stomach instead? And can those ones be saved? See the last post.

Why is that sometimes when a woman has twins or triplets one baby just vanishes in the uterus? Because the body will often resorb a fetus after miscarriage.

And if the gestational dating sonos show that the woman's fetus has a below normal heartbeat or something is wrong, can there be any pills given to stop the missed abortion? I'm not sure what the precise question is here. If it's "can medicine be given to effect the passage of an aborted fetus", the answer is yes (when it works). By the time catastrophic sonographic abnormalities are detected, it's usually a more complicated procedure to do an abortion. The more frequent scenario is that there's a failure to detect a heartbeat with that microphone-thing (doppler), and sonography demonstrates a dead fetus.

Hope that helped.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thank you
I am really interested in pregnancy. It is so interesting.

Okay, so there is no pill that can be given to a woman when a sono shows a heartbeat below normal or a size smaller than expected per the gestional dating?

What is the difference between a molar pregnancy and a blighted ovum?

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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Explain an abdominal ectopic pregnancy
What is that exactly? And are all babies in that position nonviable?
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Abdominal ectopic pregnancy...And ANSWER RE: PILLS
Ectopic means in a different place than where it's supposed to be. Fetuses are supposed to be in the fundus, or the main sac, of the uterus. Ectopic pregnancies usually occure in the fallopian tubes, which connect (this isn't precise, but functionally correct) the ovaries and the uterus. In those cases, there's just no room for the preganacy, it doesn't migrate anywhere, and eventually it can make for a big, potentially lethal mess by rupturing with hemorrhage and other badness. It's not viable.

Rarely, ectopic pregnancies have occurred in the ovaries, cervix, or abdominal cavity. Most abdominal ectopic pregnancies do not succeed. I think most of the time they're managed by removal when detected early. However, they are on occasion picked up in labor, or late in preganancy, or when a C-section is done, and so there are cases of live deliveries, but these are pretty rare.

Regarding whether a pill can be given for sonographic abnormalities, I simply can't say based on the information given. Sorry to put this in caps, but I want to make sure you don't pass it over. THERE ARE SEVERAL TYPES OF PILLS THAT ARE GIVEN IN VARIOUS TYPES OF SITUATIONS FOR THE PROTECTION AND WELL-BEING OF THE FETUS. One example is steroids given to the mother when the possibility is present for a preterm delivery, to promote lung maturity. However, I'm reluctant to speculate on this, as my experience with "curbside questions" is that it's usually a matter of figuring out what the situation is exactly, or else I end up speculating, and based on incorrect information to work with, give incorrect information.

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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Ok
I understand your question. I mean is there anything a doctor can do to save a fetus that looks like it might miscarry based on the sono?
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Depends on the situation.
Most of the time in an early pregnancy, the sono shows no living fetus. Later on, there's all sorts of things, and each one is managed differently.

Regarding your question about stillbirth, technically stillbirth means the baby is already out of the mother, but came out dead. If the dead fetus is still in the uterus, then it's a problem. D and E/D and X have been described previously, but frequently vaginal delivery is done. I've never run into a situation where C-section needed to be done, but I've only had to deal with this problem rarely. It's on my list of Things That Are Not Fun.

I'm off to bed.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not a GYN, Just a Gyn
Missed abortion: a spontaneous abortion in which the products of conception are not completely expelled. Requires followup D&C as sepsis is likely.

Fetal heart tones: don't know what you mean, but if there is a fetal cardiac defect, it can rarely be corrected with surgery in utero; most problems are corrected surgically at birth if the defect is compatible with life. Cardiac defects do not automatically lead to spontaneous abortion, though they can can cause fetal demise.

Fetal demise: depending upon the gestational age, the dead fetus is delivered through labor or through surgery (including intact dialtion and extraction).

Twins and chimeras: sometimes one of the embryoes is either completely absorbed by the other (chimeras and mosiacism) or partially (teratomas and conjoined twins).

Molar prengnacies and hydiatiform moles: an egg that starts dividing on it's own; often result in lumps of teeth with hair and teeth.

D&CL diliatation and currettage; the contents of the uterus are scraped ut with a currette. Can be done for menorraghia, endometriosis, etc as well as removing the any remaining conceptus after a missed abortion. Do women cry? I threw up from one because of the pain. They're usually done with some sedation. As to crying from sadness, depends upon thr patient. Spontaneous missed abortions may occur in women who did not know they were pregnant, and therefore have no emotions invested the in the pregnancy.

Ectopic pregnancy: an extrauterine pregnancy that usually occurs in a fallopian tube, though can occur anywhere in the abdominal cavity. Since 99.9% of ectopic pregnancies are doomed by their location and will cause serious injury or death to the woman, not much is done to "save" these pregnancies, although some in the abdominal cavity can be carried to term.

Ruptured membranes cannot be unruptured. It is sometimes possible to continue to the pregnancy.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. What is dilation and extraction?
How is that done?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Intact D&X
Edited on Wed Aug-20-03 12:37 AM by REP
is the infamous so-called partial-birth abortion. The fetus is positioned for a breech delivery; the skull is evacuated and collapsed (as to not injure the maternal cervix) and the fetal corpse is delivered. The other method is Dilation and Extraction, in which the fetus is dismembered in utero and the extracted.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Ok
And these are done in only dire cases, right? What is the medical reality about these procedures?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Only Done Past 24 Weeks When Threat to Maternal Life/Health or
fetal abnormality incompatible with life present. Can be done electively before 24 weeks, but rarely is; accounts for less than .1% of abortions done in the US.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. How are most abortions done then?
nt
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Suction Aspiration
A suction cannula is inserted into the uterus and the conceptus is evacuated. Can now be done as early as 3 weeks LMP. Most common procedure for first trimester abortions, the most common in the US.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. How early can EPT pick up a pregnancy?
nt
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Read The Box
I've had my tubes burnt out and had my endometrium burnt out as well! Some things I do not know, but I think home tests can be used three days after the expected start of a missed period.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. What is endometriosis?
Thank you for answering all my questions.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Would You Believe, No Medical School At All?
Endometriosis is an overgrowth of the endometrial tissue, usually outside the uterus, and not limited to: the outside of the uterus, the liver, the intestine and the heart. It causes pain and menorrhagia and sometimes, secondary infertility.

The inside of the uterus is the endometrium, which produces the endometrial lining about every 28 days. It is shed each month when no pregnancy is present.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Also
Have there been any studies or research by doctors on how to save ectopic pregnancies?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Not a Doctor
all my research is focused on AVOIDING pregnancy.

A midwife could do nothing for an ectopic pregnancy; the patient requires surgery.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Of course not
The doctor would have to do that.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. Some centers are experimenting w/ nonsurgical management.
The purpose is to save the fallopian tube/ovary on the affected side. However, it's only (possibly) appropriate for a small segment of people who have ectopic pregnancies.
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Zorba607 Donating Member (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
10. not an obgyn but
I think I know the answer to some of these.
a d&c stands for dialation and curetage (sp?) where the cervix is dialated and a curette is inserted to essentially scrape out the fetus and placenta.
Fertilized eggs can possibly be implanted in areas other than teh uterus, most often somewhere like the liver or an organ with similar vascularization. As for specific organs, I really don't know but I would guess it is feasible. In nearly all cases these pregnancies are not viable. However, I recently read of an extrauterine pregnancy (in india) carried to term in the liver. Obviously removed by caesarian
Regarding multiple fetuses (feti?, that sounds too weird), often the weaker of the embryoes is sort of reabsorbed into the placenta and the stronger embryo. There have been quite a few reports over the years of tumors being removed from adults with hair, teeth and other attributes of a human, seen as an indication of, to use a somewhat technical but cool sounding word, intrauterine fratricide. Read the start of the Dark Half by stephen king to get a disturbing fictional account of this.
In terms of a fetus that dies within the woman, I think there are a great many possibilities depending on the term of pregnancy. I'm pretty sure that the docs would induce labor late in term, but I could easily be wrong. Earlier on the fetus would probably be 'passed' much like a period since the uterine wall would degrade without the hormonal stimulus of a viable fetus. Again, I could be wrong.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. You Are :-)
See my first post for correct answers!
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SOteric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. I've never studied medicine, but even I can answer many of these
with a little help from Google.

1. The most common complication of pregnancy is spontaneous abortion. Spontaneous abortion is categorized as threatened, inevitable, incomplete, complete, or missed. Abortion can be categorized further as sporadic or recurrent. By definition, a missed abortion is in utero death of the embryo or fetus before the 20th week of gestation with retained products of conception. Missed abortions also may be referred to as blighted ovum, anembryonic pregnancy, or fetal demise.

The term 'abortion' in medicine is not the same as is applied in laymen's conversation. When they talk of 'missed abortion' they're not speaking of a procedure that was intentionally undertaken to end a pregnancy. They are speaking of the expulsion of a fetus by usually natural unaided means. It's in the same way the term is applied to 'aborting a mission.' It ceases of it's own accord, or the pregnancy is for some reason terminated. Abortion is the term used when the pregnancy ends before there is a viable fetus.

2. There are two types of molar pregnancy, complete and partial. Complete molar pregnancies have only placental parts (there is no baby), and form when the sperm fertilizes an empty egg. Because the egg is empty, no baby is formed. The placenta grows and produces the pregnancy hormone, called HCG, so the patient thinks she is pregnant. Unfortunately, an ultrasound (sometimes called a sonogram) will show that there is no baby, only placenta. A partial mole occurs when 2 sperm fertilize an egg. Instead of forming twins, something goes wrong, leading to a pregnancy with an abnormal fetus and an abnormal placenta. The baby has too many chromosomes and almost always dies in the uterus. Thus, molar pregnancies are “accidents of nature” that are not anyone’s fault. They are not caused by behavior, but they are more common in older women and in certain geographic locations. Also, although most molar pregnancies occur after a miscarriage, some occur after an ectopic (tubal) pregnancy or even a normal delivery.

3. D&C is The 'Dilation and Curettage' Procedure can be required for several reasons. If a miscarriage has occurred then some tissue may remain in the uterus that needs to be removed to avoid infection. In the case of a molar pregnancy (mole) the tissue must be removed as completely as possible to avoid continued growth of the material. In both of these cases, a general anaesthetic is normally used. A hospital visit is required but there is usually no need for an overnight stay.

The D&C procedure can also be used by doctors for other reasons such as the detection of fibroids or for discovery of hormonal imbalances or to look for other reasons for abnormal bleeding. In these cases a local anaesthetic can sometimes be used and the procedure may be performed in a clinic or doctor’s office instead of the hospital.

As for whether they cry and your usual choice of 'missed abortion' in this matter, that's individual and varies. It's emotionally distressing to miscarry, to find you've a molar pregnancy. It's not physically a major discomfort, so the answer will depend on the woman, her support network and the circumstance.

4. one of the most common causes of membranes rupturing too soon (prematurely) is a bacterial infection that is damaging the strength of the membranes. Whether this is the most common reason depends on what hospital I am at. The risk of infection varies with different patient populations who may have different risks and behaviors that may infection more or less likely to complicate a pregnancy. If there's no infection, the next most common cause is a blood flow problem. If you don't get nutrients and oxygen to the membranes via proper blood flow, then the membranes will become weak. If the membranes did not rupture before labor began, then a reproductive pathologist will look for the reason labor started. Often, many of the same things that can cause the membranes to rupture spontaneously can cause the uterus to contract.

Prolonged membrane rupture is considered a risk for the development of intramniotic infection (infection in the amniotic fluid around the baby, that the baby floats in, breathes into its lungs, and swallows). However there are often signs that the membrane rupture was caused by the infection. Often it takes 24 hours for the infection to progress up the cervical canal to the point where it's clinically detectable.

Membrane rupture has a risk of happening again and the cause tends to remain the same in the same woman. For example, if your membranes ruptured prematurely in one pregnancy due to bacterial infection it is reasonable that a good component of your risk for future membrane rupture ought to be related to bacterial infection.

'Unruptured' isn't a word and if I understand what you're saying it isn't a possibility. Depending on the stage of the pregnancy and the reason for the rupture, however, a healthy delivery can still be possible. The further along the pregnancy, the thinner the membrane.

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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Question about cercalage
Is that similiar to female circumscision?
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. No Such Thing as "Female Circumcision"
Women don't have anything like a foreskin. Female genital mutilation involves anything from cutting off the clitoris to removal of the clitoris and labia.

Cerclage is 'sewing' an incompetent cervix shut to prevent premature delivery. The stitch looks something like a shoestring and makes me queasy to even think about.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Ok
Didn't mean to gross you out.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. But You Understand the Difference, Right?
FGM: removal of external female genitalia; stupid custom that serves no purpose

Cerclage: a treatment for incompetent cervix; nowhere near the clitoris.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-03 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yeah I do
nt
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