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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:00 AM
Original message
What does "great jazz" mean to you?
Do you like it to swing? Do you like it to bop, or hard bop? Do you like it free -- no boundaries no preconceived notions? Do you like it to fuse with other styles? Big band? Small ensemble? Solo?

Should it be danceable? Should it take you away to a land where Picassos look like photos? Should it screech and blam you into an awakened state? Should it smoothly lull you to the land where Orpheus snoozes? Should it make love to you? Should you make love to it? Should you make love in it?

What's "great jazz" for you?
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. All of the above
Good jazz of any style.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's the nice thing about jazz. It can be all of the above and still be
Edited on Thu May-06-04 09:04 AM by GOPisEvil
great. (Except "smooth jazz" - that stuff is rather vile)

Having said that, I prefer the jazz trio sound most of all.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I like a trio but I like a quartet the best
to me the mix of sax/piano/bass & drums is hot.

Miles pointed out that if you dropped the piano you had more freedom to go "out" and stretch. But I love piano!
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. True. Small combo might be more accurate than just trio.
No more than 5. Also, I'm not a big jazz vocal fan. I just like the instrumentals.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. No more than 5? Do you like Kind of Blue?
That's a sextet playing - and perhaps the finest jazz combo ever (an easily arguable point I must add)
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. D'oh!!!! Mocked by the truth!
OK, where Miles is concerned, he can do no wrong!
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Hee hee hee
The truth hurts so good!
:)
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. Jazz brings 'switch' to mind, great brings 'off' to mind
:hi:
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. Great music
and great musicians should do all of the above. IMO any kind of music if it is good and done well is one of lifes great wonders and gifts.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I was wondering if there were people here with distinct preferences
I would imagine there are some blokes and blokettes who prefer swing bands or only like experimental ensembles, etc.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. I Want It To Push The Envelope
So, bop, hard bop, post bop, some cool jazz, and free jazz are my idea of great jazz.
The Professor
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. The kind of New Orleans jazz that Louis Armstrong played and can still
be heard by the lucky-to-be-there Preservation Hall's improvisors any day of the week.
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Check out Kermit Ruffins some time.
He is the second coming of Louis in New Orleans.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. Has he made albums? n/t
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Here you go Chavez...
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:38 PM by GumboYaYa
try this link for a bio and links to his albums: http://www.satchmo.com/nolavl/kermit.html
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #42
53. Thank you kindly Gumbo!!!
:toast:
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CharlesGroce Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. no wheedle-deedling
interweaved jazz not solo jazz. Like McCoy Tyner and the rest of the band when Coltrane is quiet. Also fusion jazz can be interesting, like some of the more kickin' Herbie Hancock and the Headhunters. Also Django Reinhardt duets with that violin player, so beautiful. Interweaved Jazz.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Interweaved jazz - interesting. that's a phrase I've not heard before
Ever heard the Duke Ellington/John Coltranealbum. I think it's more what you're into.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. Great Jazz

Is me sitting in the corner with a cigar and a snifter of Hennessey, content to do nothing but be, while half a dozen other people are locked together in a moment that will one day cause them to look back and say. Damn.

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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'm really into polyrythmic percussion these days.
There are lots of good new jazz/funk bands out there that are using heavy percussion, drum loops and multiple back beats to create some exciting new jazz. I have been getting into bands like Karl Denson's Tiny Universe, The Charlie Hunter Quintet, Astral Project and Garage a Trois lately.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. I'll look into those - thank you!
:toast:

learning is my secret reason for music posts
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
16. if it feels good, it is good
i don't have a preference or workable definition of great jazz,
it is a creation not of my own,

music speaks to me,
there are moods,expressions in music

what i consider 'great' at any particular moment
will depend heavily on how the expresses my own mood.

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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That's my feeling to
When I'm lonely there's ballads and bluesy jazz, when I'm exuberant there's coltrane and Ornette coleman and crazy spideleggy jazz, when I'm stepping out there's ellington, when I'm drawing there's Miles and Gil Evans. There are as many jazz moods as human moods.

I was just trying to see if there were folks here who preferred styles.
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regularguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
19. Great for me is the bop/post-bop/hard-bop from
the late forties to the late sixties, culminating in the Blue Note albums of the sixties by Wayne Shorter, Joe Henderson, Herbie Hancock, Lee Morgan, Coltrane (Ok only one BN album), etc.....
I find this music to be almost avant-garde in it's creativity and expressiveness, yet still having a pulse and a grounding in something natural, soulfulness, whatever you wanna call it....

There's tons of great Jazz pre-WWII and post-Bitches-Brew of course.......
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. How do you feel 'bout Ornette Coleman circa 1959-1961? n/t
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regularguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. I love it...
The band is incredible (Cherry,Blackwell,Charlie Hayden). I think you mentioned in an earlier post how while you appreciate the free-ness the a piano-less situation gives, something is missed. So while I'm a big Ornette fan (My favorite Texan!) and "this is our music" is one of my favorite albums, I still prefer the more luxurious post-bop. While Ornette brings a smile to my face, Lee Morgan makes my blood pump!

OTOH, I really love Ornette's early eighties stuff also("Of Human Feelings") with James Blood, Jamaladeen, Ronald Shanon Jackson, etc...

I got a chance to see Ornette live with Pat Metahny in the mid-eighties. Some folks walked out. I thought it was awesome if a bit overwhellming...
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Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. How about this stuff at the Iridium the next 2 weeks?
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. HOLY CRAP!!! Just called my fiance about this!!!!
McCoy Tyner with Pharaoh and Ravi Coltrane!!!!

We're so there!

Thanks 56!!

:headbang:
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Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. heheheheheh
Thought you might like to know about that.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Now I just have to find something to sell to afford it
but damn its worth it!
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phillybri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
24. NO JAZZ...
:evilgrin:
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. To each their own!
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qwertyMike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Pat Metheney
I'm ignorant of all things Jazz. I heard Metheney at a friends place. Where does he fit in on the 'Jazz' spectrum?
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Not too sure. I think he leans more to the lighter side
but I could be wrong and if so I'll get yelled at. I know my fiance's dad likes him so that's a possible negative.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
54. I like Pat Metheney, also. He's "light jazz"...
Edited on Fri May-07-04 07:43 AM by terrya
Nice guitar music to listen to. I don't think he's a purist.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
30. Hmmmmm. Good question.
It's subjective. The only criteria I have for Jazz, since it's such a passive form, is "Is it better than silence?" A lot of pre-Coltrane jazz simply bores my "pure iceberg lettuce and white bread-eating colon" to tears; it's basically hifalutin sonic wallpaper. I prefer the modal "sheets of sound" approach to Jazz as pioneered by Coltrane and Ornette's harmolodics over the traditional stuff. I prefer angularity over linearity. I prefer "energy" over "cool." I prefer the Dionysian approach over the Apollonian approach, except when it comes to Braxton (who is Appollonian down to his taint). And I prefer improv to compostions.

But, having said that, my favorite Jazz album is Eric Dolphy's "Out to Lunch," which is mostly composed material. And my personal musical hero is Frank Zappa, who was adept at both composing wonderful instrumental Jazz ("Peaches En Regalia," "Twenty Small Cigars," "Time is Money," etc.) and mind-shearing improvisation (The "Shut up n Play Yer Guitar" albums). As a guy who use to want be a composer, there's a lot of good "third stream" material I'd include under the Jazz rubric as well.

So there's grey areas. All I know is that good Jazz doesn't make me yawn.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Out to lunch is my lady's favorite non-Mingus album
And one of my favs.

And Zappa was most definately a jazz musician as well as a musician of other stripes. (But I wouldn't dare call him punk rock after your last tongue lashing)

You're not still cross are ya pal?
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. "Still" cross?
I wasn't cross at all in the last three weeks, ever.

Lord knows, I'm smart enough not to make fun of Josh Strength's mighty "package."
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. "Sill Cross"? is the name of a painting i made
out of pigment suspended in Josh Strength's jock strap leavings.

Glad your frillies didn't get bunched!
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. That "Piss Christ" guy has nothing on Monsiuer Strength!
Ha! Some piker submerges the savior in urine, while the master drenches him in anabolic ball-sweat. Nolo contendre, amigo!
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I've always said Andres Serrano's got nothin' on me!
and that's a fact!
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
35. Short answer: not shamelessly apeing the past.
Kill Wynton.
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Colin Ex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
38. Ornette Coleman.
I LIKE FREE JAZZ. I'm not ashamed to admit it.

(I also like noise bands like Wolf Eyes and drum 'n' bass like Technical Itch. Maybe I just had the primer.)
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Never be ashamed of free jazz!!!
Never ever!!!!
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. For me, it's gotta swing
I like all kinds of jazz except for easy listening jazzak and thewaya out there stuff. but overall I enjoy the stuff that swings and makes me feel good. That said, Bill Evans is one of my favorite pianists, and he rarely swings. Go figure!
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
44. Great jazz..
..should have many layers of music, lots of things going on. One should be able to "switch their ears" and listen to something interesting going on with background instruments.
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djeseru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
45. Not picky.
I like most all of it ~ from Bix to swing to Ms. Holiday to bop to Miles.

Just recently bought some early Duke Ellington, very nice.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
46. I like variety of stuff really
though I admit I prefer smaller ensembles, and have a definite aversion to electrified keyboards and guitars (not bass) in Jazz. Just my 2 cents.


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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:46 PM
Original message
Two Words: Bitches Brew
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
47. Thinking man's jazz
Monk
Coltrane
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. wow I love these questions
since they make me really think about what I like.

My tastes are pretty eclectic/depends on what kind of mood I'm in.

Women piano jazz - love piano since that is the instrument I first played and jazz piano players are amazing!
Geri Allen
Joanne Brackeen
Dorothy Donegan (wow could she play and overplay!)
Marian Mcpartland

Women singers
Betty Carter
Carmen McRae
Sarah Vaughn
Ella
Billie Holiday
Guys Chet Baker

Instrumentalists
Coltrane
DON BYRON - I would marry this guy, he is so cool (If I weren't already attached and I suspect he wouldn't be interested anyway)
Charlie Haden
Miles Davis (my so's fave)
Dexter Gordon... a day without Dexter is like a day without sunshine
Monk... love his unique phrasing and style
Mingus politics and such
Reggie Workman one of the best shows I ever saw, just him and another guy -amazing
Dizzy
Chet Baker


Groups ( learned about a lot of these folks from my punk cronies, to whom I am ever thankful)
Art Ensemble Of Chicago
Sun Ra - once sat in a friend's lap at a show,,, cool
Ornette Coleman
Modern Jazz Quartet
jazz fusion from Africa.. like Osibisa... kind of a mix.. has a jazz element to it, I guess
Anthony Braxton, but I have to be in the mood
Ronald Shannon Jackson
Art Blakey -another great drummer - Max Roach too

40s
Ellington
Buddy Rich - maybe someday I will learn to play jazz drums
CAb Calloway -

sorry so long. you asked. And I probably left some out. :)





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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
49. John Coltrane, McCoy Tyner, Bill Evans, James Ulmer, Cassandra Wilson...
Charlie Christian, Chet Baker, Coleman Hawkins, Elvin Jones, Miles Davis, John Lewis, Joe Pass, Julian Adderly, Paul Desmond, Sonny Sharrock...these are a few of my favorite things
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Guy Fawkes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
50. Jellyroll Morten, oem
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
51. It means that I am playin it, or playing it in my head...
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
52. Most all of it...
...Pops, Jelly Roll, Bechet, Duke, Bix, Fats, Art Tatum, Prez, Bean, the Count, Goodman & Hamp & Krupa & Teddy Wilson, Charlie Christian, Django & Stephane, Bird, Diz, Max, Thelonious, Bud Powell, Clifford Brown, Sonny Stitt, Sonny Rollins, Chet & Gerry, Buddy Rich, Brubeck, Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Gene Ammons, Tad Dameron, Paul Desmond, Stan Getz, Horace Silver, Art Pepper, all of the Heath Brothers, Lee Morgan, Donald Byrd, Freddie Hubbard, Miles, Jackie McLean, Dexter Gordon, 'Trane, Mingus, Ornette, Wayne Shorter, Vince Guaraldi, Herbie Hancock, Eric Dolphy, Kenny Burrell, Jimmy Smith, Grant Green, Pat Martino, Don Ellis, Woody Shaw, Chick Corea, Bill Evans, both Adderleys, Fathead, McCoy Tyner, Wynton Kelly, Jaco Pastorius, John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny, Roy Haynes, Dave Holland, Michael Brecker, Branford Marsalis, Modern Jazz Quartet, Peter Brotzmann, the Bad Plus, Matthew Shipp, Orrin Evans, Fred Hersch, Orbert Davis, Los Hombres Calientes, Arturo Sandoval, Ted Nash, Joey DeFrancesco, Jacques Louissier, Carlos Washington and many, many others I've forgotten to mention.

To me, jazz is the pinnacle of American culture. It is of the body and spirit simultaneously, existing in layers deep enough so everyone can gather what they need from it.

Oddly, the fact that it is ignored by, and threatening to, so much of the general public speaks of its virtue.

This excludes the pablum marketed as "jazz" that is in actuality more akin to what was once deemed "easy listening."
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