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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:37 AM
Original message
Tough Crowd - more idiocy
Colin Quinn finally admitted he's voting for Bush.

And Penn Jillette just lost me forever as a fan of any kind. His quote:

"Bush and Kerry are identical, why bother voting?"

Idiot.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. I find him absolutely nauseating.
I usually see the first few seconds of his show because it comes on right after The Daily Show. Lately that few seconds alone is enough to make me sick.

He's basically laughing and joking about rape, torture, and mass killing. It makes me wonder whether he himself has ever committed rape. Somehow he seems the type.

I'm wondering if I should send something to Comedy Central to let them know just how offensive and disgusting this is.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Good idea
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Borgnine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I find it hard to stick around for TDS's "Moment of Zen"....
...because I run the risk of catching a few seconds of Tough Crowd.
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Direckshun Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. I love the show.
The outrageous offensiveness is easy for me to get by. There are a lot of clever jokes that are told on that show. If your skin is thick enough, "Tough Crowd" and Colin Quinn are worth it (besides, Quinn is easily one of the least offensive people on the show).

Quinn may vote for Bush, but hell the guy will strand right there and argue with you. He doesn't think Bush is flawless (makes fun of him quite a bit, and disagrees with his social policies), he just agrees with the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act, and the like. Best of all, he's not afraid to state his opinion, he expects everybody else to feel the same way, and he's willing to actually argue about that kind of stuff without retreating to "freedom" or "un-American" or stupid stuff like that. Plus the guy has something most conservatives don't have: the ability to laugh at himself. I don't agree with Quinn on his politics, but the man goes about it in the right way.

Penn Jillette had a horrible performance. Yeah, I disagree with his politics, but that's never upset me. He was just loud and freaking attacked Ellen Cleghorne (I know I screwed her name up) with actual animosity. And, to make matters worse, he wasn't funny at all.

It's best that you don't view the show from a serious point of view. The show is comedy-driven, and rarely does politics get its chance to work its way into conversation.

You just really gotta learn to accept others who think differently than you do. And that's what "Tough Crowd" is all about.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. LOL
I live in San Diego, moved from Alabama. I have a long history of accepting that I'm in the minority, politically and philosophically.

Two points here: Quinn is laughing about torture and rape. How do you supposed he'd be reacting if it was American soldiers being victimised in those pics?

Second point: I've respected Penn for some time for being a skeptic and a generally intelligent person. But to come up with the conclusion that Bush and Kerry are identical betrays a horrid intellectual laziness. It's not political, it's just stupid.

So, my reason for liking him, for being a fan, is no longer true. That's fine.

By way of example, I'm still a fan of David Robinson, the retired basketball player, even though he's a devout Christian who's a supporter of the Republican party. Because his politics or religion were never a part of why I became a fan of his; it was his play on the court, and his character in general.

But the "humour" on this show is just pathetic. Anybody who can make Jon Stewart appear not funny is a comedy vacuum, and that's what Quinn did once when Stewart was on his show.

Louis Black showed up once, and in thirty seconds so destroyed the rest of the panel it actually put a pall over the remainder of the show.

Bad comedy coupled with bad politics is not a recipe for enjoyment.
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Direckshun Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I think the show uses politics more as a source for comedy...
...than it does use comedy to express political views. There's a difference.

Nice to know you're a DR fan, though. I personally love the guy.

And I thought San Diego was largely a liberal territory?

But of course, I would argue about whether or not joking about rape et al is funny or not, but that just boils down to opinion. So does whether or not the show is generally funny. And while I can understand how some people can find jokes about the Iraqi POW torture offensive, it just doesn't bother me on "Tough Crowd."
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. err
Two things:

First, San Diego is the second most conservative county in California, behind Orange County. Think military.

Second, I don't think there's any way possible that one could "argue about whether or not joking about rape et al is funny or not." Same applies to the concept that torture is something to joke about.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Qestion,
would it bother you at all if he laughed and made jokes about the four mercenaries who got barbequed in Falluja? Do you think many people would be offended by that sort of humor?

In the end everything just boils down to opinion. What if he was joking about the Holocaust? Is there anywhere that a line can be drawn?

Sorry for the questioning, I'm just a little bit intrigued by your definition of humor, and what may or may not be regarded as offensive.
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Direckshun Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. No, it's cool. Question away.
We're Democrats. We're supposed to question things. ;)

I think if Colin ever got around to making jokes about those things, I would honestly have to hear it before I considered it offensive, funny, or neither. If he was truly honestly serious about blowing off the Falluja mini-massacre, I would be concerned. But I don't think he blows things off, I just think he makes light of them in his comedy, and there's a difference. I think. But I do think many people would be offended by the joke, whether it was funny or not.

It's really hard to type out or explain why some things are funny and some things aren't. Have you ever had somebody ask you "and just why was that funny?" It doesn't matter how you explain it, you've lost. That's kinda how it is here.

I've actually seen Sarah Silverman joke about the Holocaust, as an interesting side note. But I don't think she's very funny.

So, the bottom line: is there a line to be drawn? Yes. But it isn't topical. I don't think any topics should be banned from comedy. But the way comedians go about certain jokes can go too far. Like if somebody makes his career off jokes about, let's say, the subordination of women to the kitchen like Andrew Dice Clay, it's pretty obvious that there's more going on there than just comedy; there's brute ignorance and perhaps a bit of homophobia.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Dear Gawd, you LIKE that thing?
I am speechless. Completely speechless. The only thing I will grant you about your entire post is that these people DEFINATELY think differently than I do. A LOT differently. Accept them though? No way, my friend. Not gonna happen.

I just erased the eight paragraphs that followed that one above. Total waste of time I think. Seriously though, you WATCH that thing? And enjoy it? LOL. I know everyone marches to their own private drummer but damn.

Take care Direckshun. Your posts are interesting, I'll give you that.

:beer:
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Direckshun Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thank you sir!
:)

And a :beer: to you as well!

The key for me to get over all that offensiveness is to basically remind myself that they are kidding. They often act very serious about it, but ultimately they are kidding. How serious they act about the things they say is what's offensive, but in doing so they always come up with a few zingers that I can't help but love.

I shall note our agreement to disagree! :) Good tidings to you as well, tkmorris.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I'm sorry, but I just can't see joking
and laughing about rape, torture and mass killings as simply the expression of politics that differ from mine, or as slightly outrageous humor.

The fact that so many people see no problem with it is, I think, a symptom of just how low our society has sunk.

I do not accept all people who think differently than I do. I can deal with people whose politics differ from mine, but I don't accept Nazis, I don't accept Stalinists, I don't accept people who think racism is funny and I don't accept people who think that rape is something to joke about.

If that makes me a thin skinned and intolerant person, then I guess that's just what I am
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Direckshun Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Fair enough.
Thin skinned? Intolerant? Perhaps you are, but I wouldn't think so.

I don't think you have to be thin-skinned to be offended by "Tough Crowd." I think you do, however, have to be extra-thick-skinned not to be offended. And perhaps that's where I fall.

But that's exactly what it is, a lot of the time: outrageous humor. It wasn't made for everyone, and understandably so.

I need clarification on something, crunchyfrog, because I don't quite understand what "accepting" somebody means in this conversation. I actually have a friend who's racist. Does that mean I accept him?
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I have absolutely no idea what it means to you.
That's a question that only you can answer. How racist is he? Does he like to joke about southern lynchings?

I don't believe that I would be able to be genuine friends with a racist but that's just me. I would never presume to judge your own choice of friends, especially since I don't even know the details.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Aha... Now I get it!
"I don't think you have to be thin-skinned to be offended by "Tough Crowd." I think you do, however, have to be extra-thick-skinned not to be offended. And perhaps that's where I fall."

So... Watching Tough Crowd is Torture!

Now it all makes sense. They speak to the republican and/or masochistic crowd.
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AmericanErrorist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. Yeah, I watch that for a while,
but then I turn to Dave.
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