Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Are there atheists in foxholes?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:06 PM
Original message
Poll question: Are there atheists in foxholes?

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Atheists In Foxholes Monument
Lake Hypatia, Alabama.

http://www.ffrf.org/foxholes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. christians welcome death.
or so says our beloved and revered justice antonin scalia. christians know that when they die they'll move on to a better place. scalia uses this as a rationalization as to why christians don't think the death penalty is such a horrible thing, forgetting, among other things, that the people they are executing supposedly will NOT be moving on to that better place....

anyway, if scalia is right and christians welcome death, or at least a just death, then if you can imagine anyone being afraid in a foxhole, then you can imagine an atheist in a foxhole.

well, there's a flaw in my "logic", which is that all the fearful soldiers could be non-christians and non-atheists, e.g., believing jews or such. but hey, whaddya 'spect from a smartass like me?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Of course there are no atheists in foxholes....
What atheist would be dumb enough to be in the military?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I don't see how that follows
either you are saying that people with faith are dumb, or you are saying that everyone in the military is dumb. either one of those possibilities is ignorant, and, well, dumb.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. being killed/killing for oil aint exactly smart
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Um, you know there were some wars that weren't about oil...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. i thought orginal poster was talking about atheists in present dayfoxholes
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. yeah, i'm sure that's why
most soldiers signed up. give me a break. most people join the military for assistance in, oh, i don't know, college tuition payments and job skills.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Well I can certainly see other possibilities...
Those are the ones you thought up.

I'm not (or wasn't) saying that people of faith or military people are dumb. I'm saying that atheists are (generally speaking) too smart to invite the possibility of death in a foxhole.

Listen, almost every statement contains some degree of truth or falsity depending on how fine a point you put on it. The fact is that the ranks of the military and the religious are filled with the lesser educated. Not exclusively, but predominantly. I don't mean to be cruel, but them's the facts, and I was just making a joke after all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Yeah, I know you were
I just didn't think it was that funny

I also don't believe that education and intelligence have a particularly high degree of correlation, you know? Particularly considering how many of those soldiers are soldiers precisely in order to become better educated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why do you ask?
What do you think?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. I think
Edited on Thu May-06-04 01:23 AM by Feanorcurufinwe
there are atheists in foxholes.


http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_fo...


http://www.maaf.info /


Why do I ask? No particular reason, I thought of the expression and thought it would make a good poll.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Good link!
I've used that one before... check out some of my atheism threads in the MR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snoggera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Are there foxes in atheist holes?
I'm not sure what I meant, but it sounded interesting to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. NO SEX THREADS!
Edited on Thu May-06-04 12:01 AM by TXlib
And there damned well better not be any in THIS atheist's hole.

Damned foxes... charm the pants off you every time, if you're not vigilant (and sober...)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. the Irish were rotten indian fighters!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BringEmOn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. In Iraq, there appears to be some a**holes in foxholes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Place the blame where it is due.
I don't blame the soldiers... I blame the politicians who sent them there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't know about foxholes, but
there were athiests on warships.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-05-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Very few. As an atheist, I suspect I'd be finding religion real quick if
Edited on Wed May-05-04 11:59 PM by WillyBrandt
I were in a foxhole. Maybe some others are made of sterner stuff.

ON EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure. I just don't know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. As an atheist who was in a "foxhole"...
Edited on Thu May-06-04 12:48 AM by MattBaggins
There are atheists there, and there is little time for finding religion when the shit is hitting the fan. As a matter of fact, had any of my brothers dropped to his knees and started crying/praying in the middle of a battle, he would have promptly found the butt of my M16 upside his head with me screaming at him to get his shit together and concentrate on getting out of said situation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
33. Believe me, when you are absolutely sure you are about to
die your thinking changes to a different level. I don't think anyone knows how they would react unless they have been there. It was certainly an eye opener for me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. And everyone is unique
We each are the result of our own particular path. Our concerns and worries are ours alone. What one person finds of great import is an annoyance to another. Wouldn't it be better to just let each person tell you who they are rather than trying to predefine them on a minimal of information from one or two labels?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. No.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. Personally, I think
that I would be willing to pray to anything to get me out of the foxhole. I'm not sure if I believe in a God or not, but I'd be sure as hell ready to change my mind pretty damn quick!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. Didn't think we had foxholes any more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. Yes
Many times non-atheists become atheists after their experiences in foxholes.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/philip_paulson/f...

I Was an Atheist in a Foxhole (1989)
Philip K. Paulson
(All rights to reproduce in electronic text the following article that appeared in the September/October 1989 issue of THE HUMANIST magazine are unconditionally granted.)

Belief in life after death was a dangerous indulgence in Vietnam

Watching the Vietnam War during the mid-1960s on the nightly news inspired me to perform my patriotic duty and join the Army. There, I was trained as a light weapons infantryman and a paratrooper. I was ordered to the front lines of battle in South Vietnam in September 1966 and fought until January 1968. I extended my tour of duty for the special privilege of an early honorable discharge.

My Vietnam War experiences began in the fall of 1966 fighting the South Vietnamese communists -- the Viet Cong. After my first month in Vietnam, I became an atheist. My former religion was Lutheran, due to my Swedish ancestry which traditionally dictates that progeny be so baptized. I could understand only a primitive concept of God. I rebelled. No compassionate God, I thought, would permit all this killing to happen. After witnessing the dead and wounded during my first "firefight," I looked up and said, "You sadistic God! You're not worthy of my worship!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
20. There is another line to the refrain
" There's no athiests in the foxholes,
but there are plenty in the P.O.W. camps."

This was more popular in the Pacific Theatre of WWII anyway that is how it was heard here at the moof hut.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. I can tell you one thing....
there ain't too many rich conservative fundie evangelical's in foxholes EITHER.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. absolutely
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
28. Please explain to me what a Christian is doing in a foxhole
First off let me say that this question is a rather rude insult to atheists. I know far to many atheist vets to shrug this insult off.

That being said, what are Christians who have a commandment Thou Shall NOT KILL that they are supposed to obey doing in a foxhole. I don't see a list of exceptions associated with that statement. Not and Kill seem pretty definitive.

The entire basis of this argument is to insinuate that atheists don't really lack a belief in god. It suggests that they are just fronting. Putting on airs. It would be akin to us saying a Christian only believes in god while in church.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
29. Another question would be
Are there any atheists on death row? Seems that most inmates I have seen in documentaries and such have found a god. Just wondering.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. That's an easy answer.
There are no self proclaimed athiests on death row because review boards like people who say 'I've found God' and are more likely to grant clemency.
Same with parole boards.
It's easy to proclaim yourself a Christian; and the claim is enough for some.

I could also make a comment about 'Athiest don't commit crimes' or some such, but it would be a cheap shot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Statistics would back that up
Prison statistics show that atheists make up less then 1% of the prison population. Now this is indicitive of a couple of possible factors. Other statistics show that atheists tend to be more educated than average therefor they may be less likely to be pressured into a crime by economic need. It could be that being god fearing pulls some perks in prison so they line up for the extra priveliges. Or it could be the connections within the Evil Atheist Conspiracy that enable us to get away with more crimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. But then
Wouldn't the mere acknowledgment of a god to "save their asses" or their own salvation of their life be a confession that the Atheist believes in some sort of power that they can use to convince a parole board?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Um no
Its an acknowledgement that if they want to be free they have to lie. Its an acknowledgement of the power the parole board has over them and their own particular prejudices. Its an acknowledgement of the oppression within the system that sees atheism as synonomous with evil. A criminal is doing everything they can to appear good in the way the system wants them to appear. Some aspects are real changes. Some are masks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. To be honest...
I don't know much about atheism. I'm not judging or condemning because I really have no concern if people believe in higher powers or not.
My post here was more toward the prisoners on death row, and I don't know how many of them go to the parole board.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. As I said...
the committees that make recomendations to Governors about clemency show more sympathy for self proclaimed Christians than any other religion or non religion. If you don't want to be executed, you've got to convince them (to convince the Governor) that you are 'worthy'... and claiming you 'found Jesus' helps.

(Note: maybe they actually have 'found God' and have turned thier life around... but it's a easy thing to fake.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
38. Last time I was in a foxhole
and things started blowing up around me, I seem to remember invoking scatology and sexuality, not any diety.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Dropped a few F-bombs?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Jul 24th 2014, 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC