What can I do? need help now!

[AlienGirl]

I just talked to the car repair place. Picking up my car will run about $500. But I can't go carless; I don't have the energy, and I work on days the buses don't run.

I have $123.17 in my bank ccount. My next paycheck is unlikely to be more than $350 (the usual) and it needs to cover rent and some food. The one after that will have to cover a student loan payment ($140-ish).

My roomies are not renewing the lease so I need first, last, and deposit on a new place, plus enough money to buy a beanbag chair (all the furniture here except the futon cushion I sleep on belongs to my roomies). I need that by the first week in June.

And I just got a dentist bill of $200 that is about to go to collection.

I can't say what I feel like doing because it would get this thread locked. (It involves the BBQ Bag and duct tape I bought just in case.)

Can anyone tell me I have a hope in hell of getting enough "biosurvival tickets" (money) to get out of this? I've exhausted all the borrow-from-family-members options.

Tucker

[commander bunnypants]

1. I am in the same boat

g'luck

I just totalled my car

DDDQM

[AlienGirl]

2. deleted

[commander bunnypants]

3. tis tough

and I had to borrow Moms car.

DDQM

how is your tummy?

[AlienGirl]

4. Still upset

Mom's nowhere near here.

This car is technically not even mine; Jag has agreed to give it to me eventually though.

Tucker

[Bertha Venation]

5. Tucker, go to this site:

http://www.modestneeds.org

And don't panic. Pick up a phone before you do anything w/ the bbq bag & duct tape. See your PM for the number.

[AlienGirl]

6. Those places have never helped me

They just advise seeng someone--which I can't afford. I'm at wits' end between this crap, divorce crap, and a good friend of mine being dying.

Thanks anyway.

Tucker

[toddzilla]

8. ditch the student loans and the medical bills

dont' worry about that shit, it will take a long time before they can do anything about it, and you're not in a position to pay for it.

how far away do you work?

get a local paper and look for others seeking roomate situations.

[AlienGirl]

10. Student loans are automagically deducted

I have consolidated them, because I want(ed) eventually to go back to college. They are automatically taken out of my bank account every month. The crap thing is the consolidators told me the payments would be less than the garnishment was--it isn't. :-(

Tucker

[TOhioLiberal]

26. See if you can get a deferment on the student loans...

...If you call them and request it, it is likely that they can help you. They also might reduce the amount taken out also. Hope this helps!

[Bertha Venation]

9. it's not for "advising you to see someone" -- it's for money

[silverlib]

7. Just a couple of suggestions.

One - first and foremost - don't panic. Keep the old thought "what's this going to mean in 100 years?"

A five dollar payment will stall the dental bill going to collections.

Do you have a credit card to use to get the car out? Do you have friends or co-workers that can help you get to and from work?

Have you used all your emergency deferments on the student loans. Have you called them and told them you can't make the payment. Sometimes they will just attach a payment or two to the back of the loan.

Don't by a bean bag. Borrow a chair.

The very best to you. Stay calm and keep you head up.

Have you heard about the HALT program for depression or being out of sorts or to follow when you think you might do something stupid?

H - do not get hungry
A - do not get angry
L - do not get lonely
T - do not get tired.

Hang in there!

[Name removed]

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[Misinformed01]

12. Thank you; I was waiting for someone

to have the nerve to say that.

I agree....PM Skinner and see if you can start a thread asking for temporary help-surely to God if he's concerned with DUers sex lives, then he wouldn't have a problem with this one.

[Zomby Woof]

17. and another agreement

:thumbsup:

[liberalhistorian]

29. Well, excuse us!!!

For your information, neither NightTrain nor I are in much better shape.

I'm a single parent who's been laid off for three weeks with no other job in sight despite having a B.A. AND a paralegal certificate and who won't get an unemployment check for another two weeks, (and even that will be barely half my normal salary, but that doesn't mean I'll have half the normal bills and expenses, no siree bob) and I haven't received any child support for seven months and God knows when I'll ever get any again.

And to top it off, I'm losing my health insurance, which means I'll have to cough up the dough for my anti-depressants which I MUST have in order to keep myself from driving my car over a fucking cliff. And I don't have the two hundred bucks a month the prescription costs either. And I have a kid who needs clothes and food and school lunch money and retired parents I live with who don't have any more than I do.

And I just got a letter today from a lawyer, a FRIEND of my former attorney boss who had to lay me off, demanding seven hundred bucks from some visits to the local hospital RIGHT NOW or they'll file a lawsuit against me. And I have car payments and hearing aid loan payments and other loan payments and insurance, etc., etc., etc., etc., that I just don't fucking have. I couldn't afford to take my own son out to dinner for his birthday this past week, my parents, who didn't really have the money either, had to do it.

I hadn't had a decent date in years (maybe being an almost-forty single parent living with my parents has something to do with it, yeah I know it's cynical, but it's reality), and whenever I did manage to have a date it would be with a goddamn freeper which would make for a very long and disappointing evening.

So when I met Dean (NightTrain) through here, it was as if all of that didn't matter anymore, and we both thought, and still think, that we may finally very well have met the right person. After years of failed dates failed romances and years of no romance at all, feeling like the scum of the earth because everyone around you, all your friends and family, have someone and you don't, it was like finally reaching the top of the world and nothing else seemed to matter. We have both experienced feelings we never thought we'd ever be lucky enough to feel because it always seemed like it happened to other people around us, but not to us. Neither one of us has ever been married or even close to being married, and I can't begin to describe the difference connecting with each other has made in our lives. The only major obstacle was the distance and our dismal financial situations. Especially now, since we've both been laid off, and with my situation I just described above.

So, you see, it isn't just for "boinking", to use another poster's crude, rude, and utterly inappropriate wording, and it isn't just about our "sex lives",a nd I really, truly, deeply resent that. And I'm sorry, but I'm in a pretty bad situation myself and I've ALWAYS given to people whenever I could and whenever I saw the need, even if I didn't have much myself or if it cost me something I really wanted (especially where my son is concerned, I give everything I have to him, financially and emotionally-I've even gone without my anti-depressants for a couple of months when I didn't have insurance and he needed little things like clothes. And going without my anti-depressants makes life a total hell for me, frankly) and I really really really resent the implications and flippant attitudes about this on here.

[thebaghwan]

41. Hang in there! I know it is easy to say and hard to do. I was out of

work for 11/2 years. My wife got laid off in January. I am also a paralegal and a contract manager. A week ago last Friday I was offered and have accepted a job paying $60,000 +. I still cannot believe it.

I will tell you one thing about bills a person cannot pay. It is far better to tell them up front than to let it go to collection or whatever. Talk to them before the situation goes critical. Good Luck!

[liberalhistorian]

43. Wow, congrats on the job,

that's great! That has to be such a relief after being out of work that long. I'm in Northeast Ohio, and paralegals and attorneys are being laid off left and right right now. That sure gives me hope, although I've hardly had any response at all to the resumes I've been sending out.

Oh, sure, I get calls from debt collectrolls who are making money off of the misery and misfortune of others, and who can't seem to understand that I just don't have any fucking money right now. And really, what can they do to me right now? Garnish my wages? (I ain't got none, and they can't touch unemployment). Attach my savings account (I ain't got one!) Attach my checking account (there ain't much in there!) I have no job and no money, so there's really very little they can do.

That is why it's such a blessing to have Dean (NightTrain) in my life for the emotional support, even if it's from 556 miles away. I'm so tired of being alone all the time.

[dawg]

53. I think most of us think that people helping you two is a great thing ...

I really wish you guys the best, and I feel for Tucker's situation as well.

I've paid attention to your posts ever since you mentioned your son had asperger's, and I admire your courage and spunk. If other posters seemed flippant, they probably are not aware of all the crap you have gone through.

[liberalhistorian]

54. Thanks, dawg!

I appreciate knowing that there are at least some people on here who understand the situation and who know Dean and I well enough to know that we're not just shallow selfish jerks looking to get our rocks off any way we can.

[liberalhistorian]

46. You, my friend, have a helluva

nerve! It's not a matter of "boinking" or "sex lives" at all, it's a matter of two people who've been alone all their lives and who never thought they'd be lucky enough to meet the right person finally being able to meet in person, after months of phone calls and emails, because they're 556 miles away and neither one of them has any goddamn money, especially since they've we've both just been laid off and I'm a single parent, to boot.

And also for your information, it was other DUers who suggested it, not Dean and I. Other DUers who understand the true situation and who know that it is NOT, and NEVER WAS, a matter of just "boinking" or getting our rocks off. You and the others on this thread posting the same way have a helluva goddamn nerve.

[Zomby Woof]

56. still lots of people worse off than both of you

Just sayin'.

[liberalhistorian]

58. Yeah, like I'm not aware of that.

But I think the fact that I'm laid off with no job in sight, no money, no health insurance, (which means I can't afford my anti-depressants) no child support for over seven months now, a single parent of an autistic kid, still having to live with my parents at nearly forty years old, getting squeezed by debt collectrolls looking to take what little I do have, and watching everyone around me, family and friends, find love in their life and actually HAVE a life, means that I ain't exactly in paradise either.

And I keep wondering just when in the hell it's going to be MY turn, because I've always tried to give to others even when I didn't have anything. But no, I'm just a shallow, selfish jerk looking just to get my rocks off, I guess. And other DUers were the ones who suggested it in the first goddamned place.

[Zomby Woof]

70. bah

Not worth my time. It was a helluva reply, but would be wasted. Utter futility.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Shakespeare]

13. I agree. Better yet, NightTrain and LH could donate their funds to her.

It'd go a long way towards helping somebody seriously in need. Hang in there, AlienGirl.

[DS1]

14. Interesting idea

:bounce:

[liberalhistorian]

31. Why don't you try asking us first before

just assuming something? And our being able to meet in person finally may not mean shit to you, but it means everything in the world to us.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[liberalhistorian]

82. LOL!

Good one, thanks!

[NightTrain]

94. Damn! I missed it.

Can someone PM me as to what the gist of that message was? Please? I could use a vindictive laugh tonight! :evilgrin:

[JohnLocke]

89. LOL!!

"The first is a verb, and the second is a pronoun."
:yourock:

[liberalhistorian]

90. The funny thing was, the message

just above that was deleted was a fellow DUer who said he'd say it for NightTrain and proceeded to do just that, lol!

[JohnLocke]

88. Why not just volunteer things for everybody?

Let's just say random things! Whee! </sarcasm>

[liberalhistorian]

91. LOL!

Thanks, JL, I was waiting for someone else to say that!!!

[AlienGirl]

15. Fund love, not the non-functional

It's my own fault I'm so non-functional.

The DUers in question have a bright future...a much better investment.

Tucker

[Misinformed01]

18. I sincerely disagree

You have always been one of my favorites on DU; you know that. I am not working now, or I would send you something right now.

I think you are a bright woman with a good future. You just need to learn to see that, dear.

[SarahB]

20. You think?

While I can understand their plight, I would not choose to follow that particular path myself.

(Yup, I'm cynical too.)

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[SarahB]

55. I'm sorry to have further upset you

I can understand where you're coming from more than you realize and I have rather complex reasons for cynicism that I don't choose to share with DU that have nothing to do with you. I didn't mean to be insensitive here. I would just handle it differently. But hey, my ways of handling things don't seem to work, so if this works for you both and you're comfortable, it shouldn't matter if someone else says they'd handle things differently. I truly hope things work out for you both and you find much happiness.

[liberalhistorian]

57. Well, with what's happening

currently in both of our lives, unfortunately, who the hell knows how it's going to work out. Then again, I'm quite used to things never working out for me. I'm damn sick to death of it, but I'm used to it.

[NightTrain]

22. Self-deleted

Posted in a moment of frustration, and not particularly appropriate.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[liberalhistorian]

62. I know that, hon, but

I think this is only a minority on here, I think far more DUers understand the situation and are on our side. Let's not get mad at ALL of DU, and let's not allow these $%#$^#^#@$%@#$%#@^#^@#$% to ruin it for us! We've already got more than enough shit going on in our lives.

But I agree, also, that I'm very surprised by some of this and from those who should really know and understand better.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[liberalhistorian]

67. Well, what you do in that

case is tear off the square inch of pizza the dog has licked and throw it away, but you don't throw away the whole pizza!! Although, I will admit that I never expected this from our fellow DUers and it makes me feel just horrible, especially that they would think this way of me, of us, when they should damn well know better. And some people do, indeed, create their own problems, if you catch my drift.

[NightTrain]

68. I think we need to take this discussion off DU and have us a nice...

...long phone conversation. It'll give us both the chance we need to vent!

So, you gonna be around at all on Sunday? ;)

[liberalhistorian]

69. Sunday night

after 9 p.m. or so. Make it between 9:30-10, when the kid's in bed, that should work!

[SammyWinstonJack]

72. Why are you and Lisa letting this comment bother you so much?

It was a rude/crude comment, but why not instead concentrate on those members of DU that contributed to your ultimate meeting, out of the goodness of their hearts, for the sake of love? I say shine on that comment and the few that responded positively to it. I wish I could have contributed toward the two of you meeting as I also wish I could help out Tucker, but my husband lost his job five weeks ago and counting. As a result, I am watching my pennies. I hope all works out for you and Lisa as well as for Tucker. :hug:

[liberalhistorian]

76. Thank you so much for

your positive words, I really do appreciate it! And the reason it bothers us so much is not just the original comment, but the posts in agreement in response to it, from DUers who I never, ever would have expected it from, and the cavalier, dismissive, flippant attitude being displayed. That hurts, to be frank.

And I also wish I could help Tucker and every single other person on here with the same problems. God knows that, thanks to those fuckers who've taken over the WH, there are more than enough of us. But I'm not in any better situation myself, especially not as a single parent with an autistic kid. I'm sorry about your husband losing his job, I was just laid off myself a few weeks ago after three years and I know exactly what he must be dealing with.

Here's a return hug and a fervent hope that your husband finds another, better job really soon! Better yet, that all of us here in the same boat are able to do the same! :hug:

[SammyWinstonJack]

84. I know words can hurt!

Again you both had so many positive responses to your situation, that the negatives shouldn't matter to you! It was mean spirited, I agree! But you should both just keep your eye on the goal at hand, which is meeting each other for the very first time! How sweet will that be? And thanks for your kind words!

[liberalhistorian]

85. You've got a point, and I know you're right.

I guess it just really hurt finding out how some DUers who I thought were on my side, and whom I've supported in the past, really felt.

[SammyWinstonJack]

87. Lisa

You must know those here who really support you! Why give attention to those who don't? It doesn't matter what they think, ultimately! They should apologize for being crude! They could have offered Tucker the same solution that you and Dean got from DU without bringing ya'll into the mix! They choose not to do that! Guess that worked for them. Like I said............Just shine 'em on!

[NightTrain]

93. Thanks for you words of support, TBE.

It just pisses me off to have my motivations so severely misrepresented in a public forum, particularly when it's done by people who either don't know what the hell they're talking about or simply don't care because they're having so much mean-spirited fun.

As I think we've made quite clear, Lisa and I feel intense gratitude to those 20 folks who were kind enough to chip in so that we can finally be in the same state. :) Now all we have to do is wait for Amazon to deposit that money into my bank account so we can use it for its intended purpose.

Rest assured, if I'm ever in a position of having more money than I need, I won't forget those who stood by me during my hard times!

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

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[liberalhistorian]

80. Self-deleted,

responded to wrong poster.

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. Sorta off the wall, but an idea nonetheless.

.
.
.

What if you moved now, take a room-mate situation right close to where you work?

Is that a possibility?

I have no idea if there is accommodation near where you work. Myself I've always tried to live near where I work, even if I didn't like the area. It could be a temporary situation that you could move out of after the $$ crunch settles down, and it WILL settle down.

Maybe your "roomies" would understand if you had to leave before June? - If not, I would just "bolt" if I could. Not out of any meanness, but it does look like it is almost a necessity?

Just thinking out loud here.

#1 thing is to keep the job, so if you have to move quickly to keep the job, I'd do it, and not feel guilty about it.

That's my Canuk $0.02 worth (that's $0.015 USD)-:hi:-

[lpbk2713]

19. I wish I had something constructive to offer but

I just want to say I hope that son-of-a-bitch Bush burns in Hell for all the misery he has caused good people like yourself. If it wasn't for him a lot more people would have decent jobs and decent paychecks. I sincerely hope it all works out for you and that this situation that you're in will be a bad memory in no time.

[philosophie_en_rose]

21. I feel for you.

I don't know if any of this will work, but the suggestion to defer the loans is the first step. You can do that online. http://www.dlssonline.com/index.asp

http://seattle.craigslist.org/apa/ might be a good place to look for a roommate. That should cut down on the first/last/monthly rent.

Don't be ashamed to ask for help. Call every service agency in the city for assistance. Consider http://www.northwestharvest.org/ for food or CHHIP for affordable housing.

[LostInAnomie]

23. Sell, blood, plasma, and sperm.

or a kidney.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[LostInAnomie]

25. They could do any of those...

except for the kidney thing. The blood, plasma, and sperm banks pay good money (about $50 a trip).

[AlienGirl]

35. They won't take my blood or plasma

I don't weigh enough. And I don't produce sperm, and nobody would want an egg from me (too many genetic disorders).

I'd sell a kidney but it would result in too much recovery time out of work.

Tucker

[liberalhistorian]

52. Good Christ, is this what life in

Shrub's America has come to, desperate people selling their blood and body parts? GODDAMN THAT FUCKER STRAIGHT TO HELL WHERE HE BELONGS!!!

[Ladyhawk]

27. Do you have a PayPal account?

It would be easy to help you out that way.

[ornotna]

30. actually

she doesn't really need one. Anyone here with a paypal account can send money to an e-mail address.


http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/ema/index-outside

[Ladyhawk]

63. OK, thanks for the heads up. (nt)

[carols]

28. Don't know how well networked you are where you live

but how about an emergency yard sale - a lot of people who can't help you financially with cash, don't mind donating stuff for you to sell. Are you hooked up with any local progressive groups, churches, friends, relatives that could donate stuff? I raised $200.00 one weekend doing that - it was to get a protestor who didn't have any money to DC for one of the pre-Iraq war protests and people really came through.

And I definitely would not worry about the dentist bill right now. You have to eat, work, and put a roof over your head. My husband has a rule about who to pay in a financial crisis (and believe me, with 7 kids, we have had a lot of them) - he says, "When the rubber meets the road, I only pay people who can hurt me!"
Carol

[everythingsxen]

33. I would like to see some input from Tucker about this situation...

*taps foot*

[AlienGirl]

34. Oh, okay...I wanted to let the thread die

Everythingsxen's mom, who is a saint, came through with enough money to get the car out of the dealership! I feel terrible about begging for money from *anyone*, especially people who have good reasons to be suspicous of my intentions, so I'm a little embarrassed to post about it.

I have the paperwork to apply for a deferment on the student loans.

I still don't have the housing situation figured out, and I remain sunk in a terrible state of grief that the Bunch is breaking up.

Tucker

[Stephanie]

36. Why not keep the place and get new roommates?

And charge them extra!

[AlienGirl]

37. I'm not on the lease and the rent's really high

[Stephanie]

38. Hmmm. Well, if it's not worth keeping then maybe you could get

another roommate situation and avoid the deposits. Are you in a city? www.craigslist.com is great for that.

I remember making a lot of $$ once selling all my old textbooks.

[NightTrain]

39. FWIW, Tucker, you're not the only one who's hurting for money.

That's why, at the suggestion of several DUers, Lisa and I started our fundraising drive in the first place.

Be that as it may, I'm on the verge of losing my job, which means I won't be able to afford this apartment anymore. So last Saturday, I looked at a condo whose owner was renting out his guest bedroom at $450 a month, a far more do-able amount for me.

Then on Monday, he gets a phone call from a place in Washington, D.C. where he had applied for a job several months ago and heard nothing. Turns out, they want to interview the guy, so he's flying down to D.C. this Friday just for that purpose. If he gets the job, he'll have to sell the condo, which means the roommate situation I thought I had sewn up is down the drain!

Factor in that I still don't know the exact date that my workplace is closing, not to mention the ongoing frustration of trying to get together with Lisa, and you're talking to a fella whose life is harrowingly up in the air. It's driving me nuts, but there's not a goddamned thing I can do about it except wait and see what'll happen.

Finally, Tucker, you have about $123 more in your bank account than I have in mine. :)

Just thought I'd provide you with a bit of "misery loves company" fodder! :hug:

[everythingsxen]

42. I wish I could make the hurt go away..

I wish I were a rich man so I could take care of us.

[AlienGirl]

44. *cue the showtune*

[JohnLocke]

92. La da da da da da da da da...

[thebaghwan]

40. OK, do you have any thing you could pawn? Do you have friends or family

that could lend you $, or a car or give you rides to work? The bean bag chair is very low priority right now! Send the dentist 10-20$ right now before it goes to collection. Do not tell the dentist or anyone else like a collection agency that you will pay XX per month. You do that and once you miss your ass is grass. Maybe you need to move closer to your work so you could walk if you don't have a car. as for food check out the food banks, must will give you a bag or two no questions asked.

[liberalhistorian]

45. Don't let the dentist's office

intimidate you into thinking that you HAVE to pay a certain amount each month or the deal is off, because that's BULLSHIT! I'm a paralegal (an unemployed and desperate one, but a paralegal nonetheless) who's very familiar with the law in this regard and they CANNOT demand that you pay a certain amount each month or it'll go to collections.

As long as you're paying SOMETHING, even if it's five or ten bucks or so, there's nothing they can do. They'll bitch and moan and grumble and groan and make you feel like shit, but fuck them, that's just tough. Stand firm, because they'll try to intimidate you and use the fear most people have of collection agencies against you.

And frankly, there's really very little collection agencies can do except try to intimidate you into paying, especially if you don't make much money and don't have any assets to begin with. They just want you to THINK that they can do a lot, just to intimidate you. Hold your head up high when you deal with them, and DO NOT LET THEM INTIMIDATE YOU!! Give them five or ten bucks, and say you'll be back next month to give them some more and there's NOTHING they can do about it! And that goes for most other bills as well, except for loans or mortgages.

[Madrone]

73. I beg to differ on one point -

And frankly, there's really very little collection agencies can do except try to intimidate you into paying, especially if you don't make much money and don't have any assets to begin with. They just want you to THINK that they can do a lot, just to intimidate you.


As someone that's gotten a rude lesson in just what collection agencies can do - this isn't exactly correct. I had a bunch of medical debt, and got turned over to collections. I was making payments when I could, and decided to devote a chunk of my income tax return towards that debt, as well as pay off / pay down some other debts BEFORE they went to collections. My paycheck and tax return were deposited into my account on the same day - the next day my bank account was seized, and 3x the original amount of the debt was extracted from my account leaving me almost nothing. Rent was coming due, lots of other bills were due - and I got royally fucked because they grabbed my whole bank account - which of course cost me MORE money in late fees and bounced check fees (some checks were already sent out before they seized my account). The collection agency had decided that the didn't want to wait for my payments to pay off my debt - and since they had a judgement against me they were perfectly within their rights to do what they did. After they tacked on their lawyer fees, filing fees, etc and the bank took a cut for the pleasure of giving my money to someone else ALL the money I had paid in payments didn't account for anything in my favor, and they took out 3x what was owed for the original debt.

[liberalhistorian]

75. They still should not have been able

to have done that, even if they had a judgment. That doesn't stop the fuckers, of course, but legally they shouldn't have been able to do that. They get away with it because most of the people they pull that shit on aren't in any position to complain or to do anything about it and they know that and take advantage of it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

47. Call Catholic Charities, the Salvation Army, etc. .

Both organizations will likely help you to some extent with your situation.

[liberalhistorian]

48. Catholic Charities would be better

than the Salvation Army, many branches of the SA can be extremely judgmental and intrusive. CC is a wonderful organization, though. They try to do what they can for you without making you feel humiliated or like you "owe" them.

[Cuban_Liberal]

49. I agree.

The SA here are good folks, but I do know that's not the case everywhere. :)

[liberalhistorian]

50. I know there are some good SA

branches, but the ones here where I am, in Painesville and Cleveland, Ohio, suck royally.

[Padraig18]

79. I think it depends on the commanding officer

The one here, Captain Wakefield, is a great guy. They really help a lot of people out, and almost never turn anayone away empty-handed. :)

[liberalhistorian]

81. You're absolutely

right in that respect, it has everything to do with who's in charge in a particular branch. The differences between some branches are like night and day. It infuriates me that the SA's in my area suck, though, because there's so much need in my county right now.

[moof]

71. Go to Washington,

Find the headquarters for the war on Poverty,

tell them you surrender.

[liberalhistorian]

83. No, we will NOT surrender,

THEY are the ones who will end up surrendering!!! Unfortunately, they will have taken a lot of good people with them by that time.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

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[Moderator]

97. Locking

AlienGirl has asked us to lock this thread. And there are a lot of PAs.