Hey, Oklahoma DUers!

[Maat]

I'd just like to know a little about the culture in Enid, Oklahoma. My sister-in-law and her husband moved there, with their 2 kids. Then my mother-in-law and father-in-law moved back there too. My sister-in-law is "the Doctor's wife." Her hubby is a doc. They all started going to the local (rather large) Baptist church and have become major pro-Bush religious right-wingers (fundies). What's up?

[RoyGBiv]

1. Enid

Bush got almost 70% of the vote in that county in '00, if that tells you anything.

The whole area north of Oklahoma City is freeper land, and ultra-religious. The Baptist Church in Oklahoma, like most Baptist churches that are a part of the Southern Baptist Convention, is also highly politicized. One wing of my family attends a local Baptist church, and at dinner they talked me into attending a few weeks ago, my uncle was talking about how they were organizing to make sure their precincts weren't overrun with liber'ls.

[Maat]

2. Oh, thanks RoyGBiv -- you made my night!

They used to be SoCal moderates -- but their brains have been possessed by alien brains. Please, I love my midwest and southern friends, so I mean no offense. But I am having trouble understanding the philosophical and behavioral change. I am familiar with the SBC and its history. I researched it on the internet when they moved (about 1-1/2 years ago). I just got around to asking the question. It seems the religious right extremists took the organization over sometime in the 90's after years of plotting and planning. I read some of their resolutions -- I just wonder if they know what they are contributing to. But apparently there are some Democrats there. Probably just to scaret to identify themselves.

[Maat]

3. Apparently, an SBC church doesn't allow women to be pastors.

And the 'man' is the 'spiritual head' of the household. And if one looks at the SBC website, one sees pictures predominantly of white males. Apparently, they are the only ones allowed to speak. And my sister-in-law talks about how the kids, she and in-laws go to church every Sunday and how she likes the 'traditional life' She stays home and plans charitable endeavors with the other housewives. And every other word is 'God this ...' and 'God that ..' Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that I tell my kid if she wants to kill me (give Mom a heart-attack) all she has to do is move back there, register as a Republican, marry and skip her college education. That would be H*ll. She just laughs. Oops, I am showing my bias.

[RoyGBiv]

6. Kinda interesting actually...

There's something of a split even within the Baptist churches on this one.

My aunt, while being a fundy nut of a sort that I can't spend a lot of time with, was raised by my grandmother, a very strong-willed woman who had two master's degrees ... and got them in the 30's and 40's ... and wouldn't out up with that "man is king" crap. Her husband is a fundy type as well and much more "traditional," if that's what we must call it.

Anyway, they were going to this Baptist church, and an issue arose over women serving, not as pastors, but as deacons. It was a convoluted mess that I won't go into, but it basically boiled down to the woman who wanted the position being much more qualified for it than the man who got it. It was a big deal. In the end, my aunt left the church and ended up going to another one that did allow women as deacons, and her husband stayed at the old church. It's hard to imagine how these two stay together.

[Maat]

9. That's a great story.

It reminds me of my paternal grandparents, deceased since the 80's. My grandmother got a degree in the 20's and was so independent that when my grandfather refused to travel, she traveled the world with the same 'girlfriend.' My traditional grandfather didn't seem to mind -- he had his friends too! And they went to a traditional church! I didn't ask questions I didn't want to know the answer to!

[RoyGBiv]

4. Democrats

Oh, there are a lot of Democrats in Oklahoma. Last time I checked the numbers -- been awhile admittedly -- there were more registered Democrats than Republicans. We have a Democrat as governor, and the house and senate have ample Democrats. But, the majority of Democrats here, I think, are of the Blue Dog variety. People will vote for "local" Democrats for state house, senate, and for governor and other offices, but in national elections, it generally goes to Republicans or very conservative Democrats.

The key is generally the social and personal freedom issues. People in Oklahoma would vote for someone who supported farmers and the working poor, but they would not vote for someone who openly supported gay marriage, for example.

And the religious intolerance around here is just suffocating. I am generally anti-religious myself, but I happily live in a very small area of OKC that has a lot of Catholics, which tend to be much more intelligent and less crazy in my experience. When I first moved here, I lived near a Baptist church, and I almost lost my mind with all my neighbors trying to get me to come with them to church and be "saved" on a daily basis.

[patchdickens]

5. BE CAREFUL!!!!

If they are comfortable in there beliefs, leave them alone right now.
Politics and religion should be a taboo subject. I don't know your relationship with them, but that can cause a tremendous hardship on a relationship!

[Maat]

8. Thanks for the info!

And, yes, you're right. We avoid politics (they just accept that it's nuts, fruits and flakes out here in SoCal). Once, we met 'em Vegas and I mentioned how I supported the Human Rights Campaign (and was pro-same-sex-marriage). Thought my mom-in-law was going to spit up. She started in on how marriage was for pro-creation, but suddenly stopped when she realized that Hubby and I had chosen to adopt -- and were a happy married couple for years before that. And my sympathies to anyone who was the vic of constant attempts to save. We get daily e-mails attempting to save us -- no good so far.

[patchdickens]

10. let the mom-in-law spit up....

we all have opinions! none of us totally agree...we may agree but something else later on is going to come up that we do not see eye to eye on. as the saying goes, "life goes on"! maybe when we all come in to some money, EVERYBODY will agree with us on everything!
YEAH , CANT WAIT TIL THAT DAY!

[The Lone Liberal]

7. Its in the friggin water.

No fluoridation in Oklahoma, just some chemical that causes people to become right wing nuts with few good teeth.

[Mr. Blonde]

11. Democrats in OK

The main reason there are so many registered Dems in Ok is because they have the only primaries in the state. When it comes time to register to vote most everyone is told by someone to register Dem not because of beliefs, but so you can vote in primaries. In a lot of local races there are no Republicans so if you aren't a Dem you can't vote.

In any case, most people in OK that I have talked to cannot concieve of a W loss in the upcoming election. Granted I am from a small town and when the local Baptist Church is the biggest social organization you can't expect a lot of Dems.

[RoyGBiv]

12. Sounds Familiar

I originally come from a small town in SE Oklahoma (of course, aren't most towns in OK small towns? ) and the Baptist Church ran pretty much everything. They'd even use their buses to go get people from home and take them to the polling places.

A couple years before I moved, I worked on a campaign to get a law passed that allowed restaurants to serve mixed drinks (this is like 1998), and the Baptist Church just went nuts. Luckily, there was a regional college in the town, and we worked it so the vote took place while college was in session, and we got a lot of new voters from there. The measure passed, but just barely.

[Mr. Blonde]

13. "Sounds Familiar"

What small town?
My favorite small town story dealing with religion is from Muenster, TX. Believe it or not this was a very Catholic town, but it only had a public school. So bible class every morning was before school started. You weren't required to attend, but "required" to go. My understanding is if you did not go you were ostracized on a massive scale at the school you did have to go to. When I was told this it was in a manner like that was an okay thing. I wasn't very old, and my sense of irony was just beginning to sharpen and didn't see the humor then. Now though, the thought of the church being intolerant is funny to me. Needless to say I get to laugh a lot about it in OK.

[RoyGBiv]

14. Ada

Greater Ader, as the truckers called it.

I actually kinda miss it. It's pretty much being taken over by the Chickasaw Nation, which in my view is a good thing because they are forcing it to liberalize a bit through economics. But, the locals, especially long-time locals, are in an uproar. Of course, when they think about the possibility of losing all those jobs the Chickasaws bring in, they shut up a bit.

[Mr. Blonde]

16. It's a small world after all

I spent the majority of my life in Madill.

Although the Chickasaws will bring in a lot of money, I do think it would be nice if the public schools could get a little bit of their gambling money. People are giving it to the indians and not getting anything in return (generally). And it will likely be a long time before the lotto gets passed.

[andino]

18. Hey RoyGBiv

My wife was born and raised in Ada. I really like that town. The people at the Baptist church are freaking crazys. They started calling Democrats 'baby killers' and what not. Gotta love that kind of thinking. Anyway, we just went back there this weekend and did the Winter smith park thing with our son. We had a great time.


Also the reason that Oklahoma has a Dem Governor is because there were 2 republicans that split the vote for him. That and the Cock Fighting law was up for vote and pulled in the rural voters....

[RoyGBiv]

19. Wintersmith

Lordy, this is a small Internet world.

I live in a place 80 miles from where I grew up, and NO ONE I know has ever heard of Wintersmith Park. But, I start participating in a discussion group on the Internet, and I find someone who has.

I have a lot of good memories of that place. I recently found some pictures my mother had taken of it back in 1976 or 7, the year of what was locally known as The Great Blizzard...which means there was about 2 inches of snow on the ground. This was before the walking trail around the park, before the lights, back when the area down by the dam was basically wilderness, and back when the amphitheater was actually used.

As for our Democratic governor, I think he's a decent guy, about the best we could have hoped for, especially in light of all the bad publicity David Walters gave the Democratic party when he was governor.

[The Lone Liberal]

15. The best story about Oklahoma Politics.

A town meeting during the time of Iran-contra, Senator Boren was holding the meeting in some town....He was explaining Iran-contra, and other important issues....the first question he recieved was from this gentleman that want to know what the city was going to do about the kids that were drinking beer down by the city lake.

[Maat]

17. Thanks, you guys have made my day. Great stories.

Of course, out here in SoCal, the following counties (we're the block on/just up from the Mexican border are dealing with the gambling issues too -- San Diego, San Bernardino, Riverside. Take that back, three. Anyway, the state is always holding some privilege back (re the surrounding area) so that they can negotiate a new pact with the Tribes. The gambling seems to be generating enough $ for all, though. My Native American friends say that the monthly check (from the resort/casino revenue) really helps out.